Can anyone tell me what the benefits of being an American are?....

[Joe the Liberal]

The reason I ask is because all these right wing nut-cases who are always flashing their false patriotism in everyone's face come off as though we here in the US have more benefits than everyone else on the face of the earth just because we are citizens here.

They (right wingers) act like somehow we have more "freedoms" than everyone else on the planet and our history and founding should be held in higher esteem than every other nation's history and founding. They act as though our nation is the only one with a constitution and Bill of Rights and that those 2 documents should almost be worshiped.

This got me thinking, what exactly are the benefits of being an American? I mean we have the same shit here that they got in a lot of other developed nations, and in a lot of cases we have less.

I don't see why all these right wingers get all "gung-ho" about the US when all you need to do is look at other western countries and realize that you have pretty much everything they do and sometimes even less. It absolutely drives me nuts when I see all these false patriots acting as though the US is somehow "special" and more important than every other country on the face of the earth when it's not.

[thereismore]

1. A 100 years ago, if you were white, there were advantages to being American. nt

[Joe the Liberal]

9. True but I'm talking about modern times, 2009. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

2. We actually do have a pretty good tradition of free speech.

A lot of European countries have started to chip away at theirs...

[Oregone]

5. ...is a shit statement

[Oregone]

3. "in a lot of cases we have less"

In most cases.

Once you come to the realization that the US is but another country, lacking in some respect, it enables you to free yourself from the entire charade. Take a break from the show and get some time and perspective as a human living abroad. You may not regret it a bit

[Joe the Liberal]

16. "the US is but another country".....

that's exactly my point, and how right wingers who wrap themselves in the flag always fail to see it.

[hfojvt]

62. that's kind of a silly point though

Clearly, I am just another person, and not more important than any other person, but to myself and my mom and dad, brothers and sisters, nieces and nephews I am more important than most other people.

In much the same way, America is more important to most Americans than any other country. I am not sure how far you expect to get with a "Screw America, we're no more important than Portugal" message.

[Statistical]

110. If this is true then why is the waiting list for legal immigration years long

and even more people risk everything for the chance at illegal immigration.

[AllentownJake]

4. Some people view their country the same way they would view a football team

I believe this started in 1980 when we beat the USSR in Hockey.

We are an empire with Military bases in half the world. Most empires are arrogant till they stop becoming an empire. The Soviets were arrogant, the British were arrogant, the French were arrogant, the Spanish were arrogant, the Romans were arrogant...well you get the picture.

When you start seeing the military presence in the world wind down, you'll see a little change in attitude.

American Exceptionalism is a disease and I'm not sure what the cure is.

[Joe the Liberal]

13. I agree....

I think the size of our military plays a role in it, people here see that we have the largest military and think that we are the best country on earth because of it.

[hfojvt]

64. sure, it started in 1980

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Because in 1975 and 1976 we were all just walking around saying "So what if America is 200 years old? It's just another focking country. It's not that great." :rofl:

And when we landed on the moon, we all just said "What's so great about America?"

And when we celebrated V-E day, we all just said "America is just another country. It's no more important than Eritrea."

And after the following speech, people just yawned and said "what a bunch of hype"

"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate...we can not consecrate...we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government: of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."

[roamer65]

118. The cure is coming very soon.

It will be the end of the empire.

[XemaSab]

6. We get to live in a beautiful country

with some of the best scientists, most gifted writers, most talented musicians, and all kinds of other cool people. We have access to cultures and foods from all over the world because there are people here from all over the world. We're all immigrants, the children of immigrants, or Native Americans. We've got tundra, deserts, rainforests, swamps, high mountains, and more.

I think that's all pretty cool, and I don't think I would want to live anywhere else. :shrug:

[AllentownJake]

7. I don't think that was the point of the OP

I think the point of the OP is the we are #1 bullshit.

[Oregone]

26. "I don't think I would want to live anywhere else"

Have you tried? A lot of other places have all that stuff too.

[Dorian Gray]

54. Yes they do

and they are wonderful places. But, after living in Hong Kong and England, I found that the US is home to me. Most of my family and friends are here. It will always be home. Warts and all.

[HughBeaumont]

88. Warts that the "Compound W" exacerbated.

;)

[Dorian Gray]

106. Compound W

That's funny! ;)

[cemaphonic]

92. Yeah, same here

I lived in Brussels for awhile. Very nice place to live, but it never really felt like home to me.

[Kickin_Donkey]

47. And Canada and Australia don't have scientists, artists ...

musicians and writers equal to the U.S. on a per capita basis?

Canada and Australia have the same immigrants and natives and cultures and food from all over. And they have beautiful, diverse scenery too (OK, no deserts in Canada).

You need to get out more.

[XemaSab]

56. There actually are deserts in Canada.

I have been to them. :)

I like Canada, but It's too cold for me. :shrug:

I've never been to Australia, but I would guess it would be too dry and it wouldn't have very good Mexican food. :shrug:

[depakid]

90. "I would guess it would be too dry and it wouldn't have very good Mexican food."

You'd be right on count #2, for sure- have to ship ingredients in, unless you want "Old El Paso." Otherwise, that's about the best you're going to get, Gak!

Count #1 depends on where you live. The Hunter Region reminds me a lot of Northern California-



Much of the year, it's so verdant that it looks like... South Wales around say, Brecon Beacons:



Hunter Valley:

[XemaSab]

95. But hatrack said it was all shifting sand dunes

:o

[depakid]

99. Like the one's in Canada!

[CTyankee]

68. Unfortunately, I can't say we have very good food. It CAN be good, but when it is it is

more like the cuisines of other great food nations. All of what you say is true but we never developed a wonderful, delicious cuisine. The processed crap that so many Americans eat is monstrous. We are hugely fat compared to the populations I see when I travel to Europe each year. The best we can do is to eat fresher foods or revive the customs of those nations from which our forebears came (altho mine are all from the British Isles and its cuisine is not something to rave about IMO). I'm lucky in that I live in a city that has wonderful restaurants with a dazzling array of diverse ethnicities and some damned good non-ethnic food that has been developed by creative American chefs who are experimenting with tastes and textures.

[butterfly77]

112. As we live under bridges and..

dumpster dive for food..

[XemaSab]

120. Unlike they do in other countries?

:shrug:

[butterfly77]

131. but, we are suppose to be so great and wonderful..

let these politicians tell it,everyone in america is housed,fed and clothed and there are jobs for everyone.

[AllentownJake]

8. Here you go!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCDZMWVWuc

[Joe the Liberal]

11. Lol my thoughts exactly. n/t

[Brigid]

66. Love Lewis Black!

:rofl:

[HughBeaumont]

91. Man, he just gave me a thought . . .

. . . It's kind of along the lines of playing Jay Leno at a Klan mee . . er . . . Teabag "rally" and asking these bitches questions like "I'm kind of lull on my knowledge . .. what's 'Communism' and 'Socialism'" and seeing if you get any correct answers.

Ask the "WE'RE NUMMER WON!" crowd how many nations they've visited, let aloned LIVED in that they can make such a statement. You'll either get a "I dun't hafta live elsewhur, Ah just KNOWS we're NUMMER WON, Commie!" or an anecdotal "I had a friend of a friend of a relative's cuzin who done had'm some butt cancer and waited seven years before gett'n on the wait'n list at the (insert UHC-having industrialized nation here) hospital. An' we ain't got that kinda probl'm HERE! Git R DUN!" GUARANTEED.

[FreakinDJ]

10. Have you lived Outside the US ever

in some ways we have less freedoms and in other ways we have more, but all in all we have it a LOT better then many countries

[MajorChode]

53. I wouldn't say a lot better

And yes, I have lived outside the US.

In the US, we measure our quality of life by how much money we have because without it, your quality of life falls off significantly.

In other places, especially western Europe, quality of life is more of a collective endeavor.

[Drunken Irishman]

12. Obama is our president.

:)

[AllentownJake]

14. Yeah...

The people he's talking about were happier when the fake cowboy was threatening the rest of the world and yelling about the French.

[Drunken Irishman]

15. Eh, piss on 'em...

[Brigid]

70. OK, you found one.

Can't ignore that. :)

[Quantess]

17. So where are you gonna go?

Will you be an illegal immigrant somewhere?

Where will the RW'ers go, who say they want to secede just because a black man is in the White House? Which country will take them?

[abq e streeter]

18. Cuz we were founded on an idea, and the original idea was pretty fuckin good

even if it was a lie in actually being practiced for so many ...but the seeds were sown for it to still maybe be lived up to some day.

[annabanana]

48. +1

[cyclezealot]

19. The terrain is beautiful. Our unkept traditions are positive.

If only FDR had had the chance to institute his Four Freedoms our country would be much better. We do have the right to protect ourselves from the many who are out to rob or kill us thanks to our economic inequality.

[Joe the Liberal]

25. Yes our terrain is beautiful....

but that's not exclusive to the US, I think the same applies to the right to protect ourselves.

[Brigid]

69. The story is told . . .

of an Irishman who emigrated to the US to escape the infamous potato famine. He got himself a job, developed new friendships, the whole bit. He was always bragging to his new friends about how lovely "the old sod" was. One of his friends finally took a trip to Ireland. When he returned, he said to the Irishman, "Oh, yes, your country is every bit as beautiful as you said. Incredible. How could you bear to leave?" The Irishman replied simply, "You can't eat the scenery now, can you boyo?"

We have plenty of beautiful scenery here. Nobody disagrees with that. But it isn't very useful when the economy is in the tank and political chaos is threatening to take over.

[cyclezealot]

101. I was being sarcastic

In a civilized country packing would be unnecessary. Having a gun does not make me feel one bit better. I've been robbed a couple times. I assure you, they don't give you notice before they beat you to the draw.

[Prometheus Bound]

20. I live in China and nothing would make me move to the US.

I love traveling in your beautiful country and have met many wonderful people there, but I would never live there.

[Oregone]

31. Why?

[Selatius]

44. Maybe he thinks having two choices at the ballot box is more insulting than simply no choice?

:shrug:

[vadawg]

50. roflmao ziinger

[Kansas Wyatt]

87. We have choices?

Republican or Republican Lite

Okay, technically we have a choice.

Just kidding... I would trust the U.S. Government, before the Chinese Government, but I'm very cynical of the U.S. Government.

[Obamanaut]

52. This DU thread might help, "Amazing Pictures, Pollution in China"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6846596

[Prometheus Bound]

89. More amazing pictures

http://www.impactlab.com/2006/02/07/amazing-photos-of-china/

[FrenchieCat]

21. As an Immigrant who came here from France.....

I can say that this is the only country on earth where you can come here Black and with absolutely nothing in your pockets, get by with your White single mother working as a waitress, marry a Black man raised in the projects and end up with a kid who graduates from Harvard, the best University in the World....who goes on to marry another graduate from Harvard, thereby establishing a family legacy that you'd never even dream would belong in your family.

That's my story, and I do not believe that it would have happened
had we remained in France. So yes, only in America! :patriot:

[Oregone]

27. "this is the only country on earth where you can..."

To be frank, the concept you hint about is commonly referred to as intergenerational mobility, measured by the correlation between income of the same-sex parent. Thats a statistic which tries to put a number on what people call the "American Dream".

In all industrial countries, the US has the lowest rate of mobility, tied with the UK. Canada and Scandinavian countries have the highest.

BTW, in many countries, first generational immigrants have higher rates of mobility. I know most certainly in Canada, where I now reside, they do better than average and attend college at rates higher than non-immigrants.

Thats not the only place that could have happened, except, perhaps minus the "Harvard" part (where it would be another school instead). Congrats on your success. I also beat the odds in America, with heavy subsidizations, before I beat it.

[FrenchieCat]

32. Well, for me, it is the only place that it could have happened.....

I see my relatives still in France, and the ones of my generation don't own a home, or work for themselves, or any of that. If you don't pass the baccalauréat to get into a University, you are kind of out. Doesn't mean you don't end up living a good life, because one certainly can......but we originally came to this country because of the fierce prejudice my brother and I encountered in France.....because many French people mistook us for Algerians (because we are of mixed race and certainly looked north African), and French people hated Algerians then, and pretty much still do. You see Josephine Baker's Paris has been gone for at least 50 years!

I'm glad I came to this country, and I do love it.
But after what I witnessed the theft of the 2000 election,
I was never the same since.
That's why I'm so politically active....
cause I want to help perfect this imperfect union,
and make sure that others have the same chance that I was given
in my adopted country. :patriot:

[Greyhound]

60. IOW, the chance to win a lottery. Time frame is also relevant, when did this all happen? n/t

[FrenchieCat]

75. My mom got married (a preplanned marriage sorta)

once we arrived (but got divorced 4 years later). That's how we got our permanent Alien Cards....
was back in the 70s.

[conspirator]

135. I filled my green card lottery entry today. You guys have much better standard of living

than us brits.
And I don't care about british health care. If healthcare was the only reason to choose a country, I would move to Cuba instead.

[abq e streeter]

22. "The whole world digs that sound from the USA"

we got the Lou-siana boogie and the delta blues
We got country swing and rockabilly too
We got jazz country western and Chicago blues
Greatest music that you ever knew...
It's American music, yeah American music..It's American music, the whole world digs that sound from the USA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEeQpiryZ1c

[Oregone]

29. But what I don't get is that when Clapton or Jagger....

take on "American Music", its kicks a ton more ass.

[asdjrocky]

74. Alright, now you've gone and done it.

Let's talk Muddy Waters. Let's take a gander at John Lee Hoker while we're at it. Eric Clapton owes everything he is to American Blues, and while Slow Hand is a gifted mimic, he is nothing more than that. Eric Clapton has stated as much in many an interview. Take a look at the stuff he did with B B King. I have a lot of respect for Mr Clapton and what he's done. Layla, a song written for George Harrison's wife by the way, is a truly inspired piece of music but a lot of the true sound and tone of that song, in fact the whole album is due to Tom Dowd, he was an American. An American, who was instrumental in the success of Ray Charles, Lynyrd Skynyrd and the Allman Brothers, just to name a few of the American acts he recorded. The eight track recorder was his, and when they asked him to come to England to record, there was not an eight track recorder in the entire fucking country, so he had to build one. Just to record some of those English musicians.

Can you tell me the English equivalent of any of those acts? Even one? Don't get me wrong, I think there are some great British acts, but they came here, and continue to come here for a reason and the reason is America is Music Mecca for modern music. It has been that way since the day Robert Johnson strummed his first guitar. The people in England who know anything about music know that all roads lead here, and anyone who knows anything about music history in England would never say it kicks more ass than the Americans they worship.

Every phase of American music has been imitated sometimes well, and sometimes poorly in England. Take a look at the Northern Soul movement or the Club movement. Northern Soul came from Motown and the Club movement came from the Warehouse in Chicago. I could go on and on, even most punk bands in England were a response to Iggy.

Don't get me started on Jagger, a man who is a marginally talented singer, song writer and performer who has a great feel for the music business.

Say anything you want about America, most of it is well deserved, but English music in no way "kicks ass" on American music. America owns the modern music scene and you're just going to have to suck it up and admit it.

[Oregone]

80. Im not sure you understand exactly what Im saying

Various British artists have emulated "American" music (blues/country/jazz/folk) to produce some incredibly outstanding music that is exceptional. About Clapton, it may be true that he owes "everything he is to American Blues", but when Clapton plays the blue...in my opinion...its different. When the Stones took on country, they created masterpieces. To each their own, but it says something dramatic when these outsiders can not only emulate, but build and innovate on sounds from a completely foreign culture.

[pink-o]

109. That was then. All the best rock and roll comes from North America here in the 'aughts.

Coldplay? You're kidding, right???

[Oregone]

136. All the best rock and roll aint coming from nowhere these days

:(

Maybe Im getting old in my late 20s...I just don't dig this new shit, aside from a few bands. Its all subjective

[tomg]

85. Okay, we have the Blasters. I concede. nt.

[abq e streeter]

97. and we gave the world all those kinds of music Phil Alvin is singing about

not bad...

[krispos42]

23. Well, our flag is pretty good-looking

Dunno if it's the best-looking, but it looks pretty damn good.

US, UK, France, The Netherlands, Sweden, and Australia have pretty good-lookings flags, IMO.

[RandomThoughts]

24. There are some good things that were unique about America.

And some bad things. Many people think America is great without thinking about it. Sort of just for self flattery.

But there are some accomplishments America has, and some really bad stuff too, just like every other nation or group of people.

[depakid]

28. Fine seasonal microbrew, pumpkin pie, apple butter...

Pepperidge farm goldfish.

Try finding those abroad.

[Oregone]

30. Being that I just recently celebrated Thanksgiving....

I enjoyed a decent selection of seasonal microbrews and stuffed myself fat with pumpkin pie. Apple butter was never my thing, so who knows.

[depakid]

33. Best of both worlds!

No pumpkin pie- or even the filling to make it down under. Had to have one of those flat rate boxes sent packed full full of items like that.

Then again, we get real Christmas pudding. Can't say as I've seen that in the states.

[wuvuj]

38. Thanksgiving is next month here...

...

[IntravenousDemilo]

34. Umm... uhh... there's, uh.... I mean, you have this... er... that is...

Nah, I got nothing...

[Confusious]

35. The US does have the oldest constitutional form of government

We've been dropping behind ever since.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

96. Greece?

The Code of Hammurabi?
the laws of Ur?
Hittite and Mosaic laws?


sorry, charlie. Not good enough for Sunkist.

[Confusious]

104. Check your history

None of those is a Constitutional Democracy.

Hammurabi, king. Ur, ruled by kings. Hittite, kings. Mosaic laws, religion. Greece, no constitution, but they had a democracy for a little while.

Try again.

And just so you don't have to do any work:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution

"The United States Constitution is the shortest and oldest written constitution still in use by any nation in the world today."

[ChairmanAgnostic]

105. the point is "still in use"

Although under cheney and bush, that was often debatable.

[Confusious]

134. No, seems the point to me

Is that you want to be argumentative and try a make some else feel small by parsing words.

You list things that don't even come close to being "constitutional democracies" and then when I point it out, you want the argument to change to "still in use".

Try someone else.

[Blue-Jay]

36. It doesn't suck, that's for sure.

Certainly, there are lots of things that could be better in our country, but being an American doesn't suck.

[fujiyama]

37. I'm not sure about the whole "Exceptionalism" BS

It never appealed to me, to make such statements having not experienced living in other countries. I've traveled a few times though and to developing countries where I stayed for a few months at a time - and compared to those places we do have it pretty good.

I'll say this. Most Americans are pretty decent. I'm brown and have traveled across most of the country and can't really think of times I felt really uncomfortable due to my race. That's a positive as far as I'm concerned. I've had a relative of mine travel to parts of Eastern Europe and she got harassed because of her skin color.

We have great terrain. Our coast lines are incredible. We have the Rockies, the Appalachians, Yellowstone, The Grand Tetons...The American southwest offers some of the most unusual and unique vistas on earth.

We have just about every race and ethnicity you could imagine, within our boundaries. We have incredible colleges and universities, which attract talent from all over. And unlike many countries we have a great system of community colleges, which offer opportunities to learn at any age.

We have the oldest constitutional government, which has decent principles incorporated in it. The Bill of Rights allows us to voice opinions, even when it offends. The nation has not always held up to the values set forth in those documents. But many of the values and ideals are worth fighting for still.

[wuvuj]

39. America is great because....

...we use 5xs the per capita energy as the rest of the world...we have by far the worlds biggest military used to procure that energy....we consume a lot of stuff on borrowed money...we're just really wonderful people....who don't "believe" in global warming...because if we did we couldn't rationally do all of the above?

Americans are really special people who deserve to drive big SUVs...get really big and fat...and live off the labor and resources of other people.

We're just so damned wonderful...I can't stand it. :bounce:

[VMI Dem]

40. Soccer is a fail here.

Thats awesome.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

94. nope. Fastest growing sport in the country.

HSs are dropping football. Baseball is a boring pain. Basketball needs to raise the rims another 2 feet.

[Throd]

98. I've been hearing that since 1975. Never seems to happen.

[Selatius]

41. You can fly a bomber and bomb nations from 45,000 feet...instead of being bombed.

The only other country in the world that possesses a bomber force capable of hitting the US mainland is Russia.

[Arugula Latte]

59. And you can bomb the moon!

[Brigid]

67. Yes, and look where that got them.

So much potential there in terms of reserouces, but cursed with a disastrous history and still struggling to build a future decades after the Cold War ended.

[Kickin_Donkey]

42. The only thing I can think of is that we have lots of physical space ...

you can really spread your arms, unlike in Europe or India or China, etc. You can just drive on and on (provided you have money for gas). But then again they have lots of space -- more, on a per capita basis -- in Australia, Canada, Argentina, maybe New Zealand.

Some of -- but not all -- the American exceptionalism came after World War II, when America was thought to be an unscathed victor over the world, while Europe and Japan lay in ruins and most of the rest world were colonies or impoverished countries (as in South America).

But one has to make the comparison today. Today, America is just another country. It's been surpassed by pretty much the rest of the developed world in terms of wealth, security, health and quality of life. Western Europeans, Japanese, Australians, Canadians live well these days.

Then there's the BS about Americans being the freest country. Again, your average Western European, Japanese, Australian, Canadian, New Zealander has as much political freedom as any American as far as I see, maybe more. Not only that, because those countries have socialized/government-supported health care, they have a certain freedom in life that Americans don't have.

Finally, there's the crime. America is ridden with crime and violence, which can explode anywhere around corner. We all know that. In fact, Americans don't know what life is like without the threat of crime and violence. But in Japan, for example, a woman can walk down any street in any city at any time of the night -- and feel safe. I know, I lived there. To live in a country with very little crime is liberating. Not having to get hit over the head by a mugger or a yahoo -- that's real freedom.

Frankly, I can't see any advantages that being an American has over being, say, an Australian.

[KillCapitalism]

83. Don't forget poverty

I've been to Denmark & Sweden and did not see a single homeless person the entire time I spent in those countries.

[dipsydoodle]

43. You've got most of the world supply

of banjos over there.

[eridani]

45. Lots of cultural variety

At a fundraiser for our local food bank, we had youth dance groups doing Mexican, Cambodian, Thai and other styles--all from people living within a few miles of the venue.

If you meet an Asian-looking kid with reddish hair named Sean Yoshio Kerwin-Yokota, you know you are in America.

[Kickin_Donkey]

46. Or you could be in Canada or Australia.

[eridani]

51. Aren't Canadians just Americans who'd rather have health care than guns? n/t

[hfojvt]

65. no

they have lots of guns too. At least according to "Bowling for Columbine"

They have the accursed metric system too.

[rucky]

49. We have the NFL?

:shrug:

[stray cat]

55. Go down the list of benefits in living in other countries and see for yourself

I guarantee I have greater access to many jobs and lifestyles having been born in America versus most 3rd world countries. As a female, I would not want to be in most middle eastern countries.

Why do Americans always just arrogantly assume its their right to have benefits consistent with western countries when they could be comparing themselves to most of the world and might quit whining.

[wickerwoman]

77. The question isn't "Are Americans better off than Somalis?"

The questions is "why do people assume America is the best place on Earth to live" especially when it clearly isn't.

I've lived in six countries and the only one where my quality of life was unarguably worse was in Peru.

In Ireland: better cultural scene, better music, friendlier people, less suburban blight, national health care, cheap education, better public transportation, better TV (minuses would be more racism/sexism and less "new stuff")

In Germany and the Czech Republic: national health care, cheaper, better education, better public transportation (Prague had the best system I've ever seen), less obesity, more political involvement, more history/character combined with sense of national shame in Germany (minuses for the Czech Republic would be higher crime, less friendly people, less "new stuff", terrible food; minuses for Germany... ... ... football hooliganism? some racism/xenophobia but probably on a par with the US)

In New Zealand: better environmental policy, less racism/sexism, "can do" attitude, no nukes, better baked goods, more sheep, national health care, friendlier people (minuses are borderline public transportation, slightly shabby construction, less "new stuff", insular cultural scene, geographic isolation)

In China: more job opportunities, low cost of living, national health care, better public transportation, amazing food, entrepreneurial attitude, focus on savings and fiscal responsibility, generous and friendly people, very low crime rate, respect for education (minuses are pollution, over-crowding, lousy environmental policy, propaganda, lack of respect for reality, police oppression, death penalty, no free press, less "new stuff")

I would move permanently to Ireland, Germany, the Czech Republic or New Zealand in a heartbeat. All of them have a demonstrably higher quality of life than the average American. It would be a toss-up, honestly, between the US and China at this point. All of China's minuses also exist in the US to a lesser degree. But in China, at least, there is a feeling of hope and optimism about the future, whereas in the US you just get the feeling that everyone is so exhausted and sick of everything all the time.

Nothing will ever get better in the US if we just accept our status as sliding into the middle of pack and say "Hey, at least we're not as bad as Saudi Arabia!" It's not "whining" to point out that many countries are now surpassing us in standard of living and to look at what they are doing right and try to imitate or surpass it.

[Pavulon]

79. When I was in china for business. I had

to encrypt the contents of my hard drive. Secure all communications to my office. And limit the internet access I chose to view as some forums and topics are blocked and illegal.

Germany is a great place, lots of fun in europe and oz. NSW is a great place and could happily find some remote place on the north coast and drop off the face of the earth.

The US drives innovation. China is the body shop to make stuff, bet we make and design ground breaking technology.

[wickerwoman]

81. Yeah,

I thought about lack of respect for copyright in China but honestly couldn't put it in the plus or minus category. It's hard to work with (I worked at an internet start-up where our highest paid guy was the security specialist) but I loved, loved, loved my 75 cent DVDs. Terrible, I know... but I guess the point is that the price of entertainment in the US is obscene ($25 for a DVD?!?) and cheap, legal entertainment would raise the quality of life in the US.

I never had much trouble with internet access. I used DU the whole time I lived there and could get youtube, facebook, cnn, bbc, etc. with very few problems (except the occasional censored story like the crackdowns in Tibet). I'm sure it's a different story for Chinese-language media though. A definite minus.

The US did drive innovation, but I worry a lot for the future. The new generation of Chinese kids are extremely driven and many of them were educated in the US (and took better advantage of our system than most American kids). I was blown away by the stuff some of my students were working on. China is making a massive push towards innovation and I think it would be a huge mistake to write them off as simple "following our blueprints for success". And if Obama hadn't been elected? (shudder)

[Pavulon]

84. I work in material engineering and technology

mixes in that area. Some of the BEST people I have met moved here from china. They are no doubt highly educated, but they move here to be highly paid and for their kids to live better lives. It is funny how first generation americans have a unflinching love for the US. This topic could start fights in bars around me. I know a guy who moved here from pakistan who literally kicked the shit out of a random guy for saying Bush did 9/11. This was in 03 and the guy did not like bush. Clocked the guy in the face with an ashtray, lights out.

Everyone in that bar was "looking at their beer" and saw nothing. when the police showed up. No one arrested.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

57. "Patriotism is the most foolish of passions, and the passion of fools."

[DireStrike]

58. An opportunity to participate in (ex-)first-world social upheaval?

Getting to fight against odds that say you'll have less wealth and income than your parents?

:shrug:

[Greyhound]

61. The best real estate on earth? n/t

[RagAss]

63. Nothing....Fucking Nothing.

[Angry Dragon]

71. of the people, by the people, for the people,

Listen Up!!

This is what is missing right now in this country. FOR THE PEOPLE

Ask yourself this...Do you really feel that this country right now is for the people, or is it just for some of the people??

[Brigid]

72. Some of the people, definitely.

And if you're not in that "some" group, you can forget it.

[Rage for Order]

73. You get to tell everyone on the internet how much your home country sucks...

And it's completely legal to do so

:eyes:

[mason501]

76. I'm, quite, sure there are many folks out side of the U.S. who think.

Radical extremist are in every country, around the world. The far right wing could be in that category. Just accept the fact, and blow it off. They don't know anything about truth!

[Pavulon]

78. No one will shoot you for posting this..

you dont have to bypass a firewall view the internet. You will not die of polio or malaria or starve to death because you have no money. There are lots of cool things in America. That does not NEGATE the greatness of other countries, but America is a pretty fuckin cool place.

[tomg]

82. Up thread, someone mentioned goldfish and microbrews.

I am living in Florence for a semester(teaching). I really miss the Goldfish; in fact one of my friends is bringing some over for me. Obviously, I miss family and friends - but if they were here too, I wouldn't miss them.

More seriously, the question is "is there something that makes Americans uniquely Americans." I honestly don't think so, at least anymore. Admittedly, I do not believe in American Exceptionalism. There might have been at one point: an idea, a belief, an opportunity.Granted as others have aptly pointed out, it was always,to an extent, an illusion and a dream, but still it was an ideal and therefore a thing desired and worked for, no matter how fumblingly. I think at this point, though, with increased economic globalization and the systematic destruction of the middle class, with a lack of compassion for others who have not ( and now probably won't ever ) made it to the middle-class and a failure to make a real commitment to economic justice based on real opportunity, I think that what once made the idea of the United States unique is no longer the case.

My students (in casual and out of class conversations )- middle class kids from the burbs for the most part - continually point to our "freedom of speech." And then I point out that, minor cultural variants aside, we have no greater freedom of speech in any meaningful way than other western industrialized countries. They point out to our "economic opportunities to be whatever you want," and then I point out the disparity between the rich and poor. And so on and so forth. They say freedom of choice as regards health care and I say ( I don't want to go there. . . ). the point being that there was, I think, one thing that made us at one time unique: we were not bound by the past, we were not bound by a tribal sense of "place" and we were not encoded into a fixed social position ( at least, we were working in that direction however slowly and I think that the great movements of our "progress" - Civil Rights in all its facets - come out of that quest). We were open to others ( again, no matter how clumbsly). What my students are really saying is that "this is my home and I love it." Obviously, this attempted cultural openess is now gone at the same time that economic globalization ( in the pejorative sense) and the ensuing destruction of the middle class and economic oppression of the working and marginallly working has accellerated. the two are absolutely connected.

Right wingers ask "why, then, do people continually try to emigrate to the United States." Good question, but I see that everywhere in Florence, as I've seen it in Paris and London and Rome and other European cities I've spent time in. Everyday on my way to class, I see the streets filled with North African emigrants who are simply trying to make a euro to send back home, as my great grandparents tried to make a dollar to send back home. If that is the rw argument - people still come here - then it is poor one. For one thing, they oppose opening our borders, so they contradict themselves. Really though, it is the argument that explains why rural people emigrate to cities because of economic opportunity, that the poor will always try to get ahead. I think that once we represented a real possibility to break away from an enforced past. If we were never - and I know we never were - the shining city on the hill - at least we believed we could be. I think that that is now gone. Were I to pinpoint it, i would say that it started with Reagan. He started the destruction of the middle class, however inadvertently.

Sorry to go on, but being away has sort of got me thinking about things a bit more.

[dysfunctional press]

86. a much better standard of living than most other countries.

and LOTS of elbow room.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

93. easy to spell US and A

You can vote early and often in Chicago.
Except for being able to check you e-mails, your intertube usage, your mail, your computer, your house and your office desk without a warrant, ours is the bestest most finest, most privacy respecting country in the world.
Except for 48,000,000 lazy shits, too cheap to properly enrich our hard working insurers, and for the 80,000,000 underinsured, and for the 34th worst prenatal care vicitms, and those denied coverage for pre-existing conditions, we have the bestest health care in the whole wide world!
Except for those millions being thrown out of their homes, we have the bestest mortgage system and home ownership program in the world.
Everyone speaks english, except those being arrested for DWSS (driving while speaking Spanish) in Texas.
Our criminal justice system is fair, equitable and affordable, unless you are Scooter Libby or very rich and powerful, or unless you happen to speak spanish in Texas and Arizona, or unless you suffer from mental health issues, or unless you cannot afford a private lawyer.
Our bike lanes are safe.
Our bridges will never collapse.
Our airline pilots are never overworked to the point of collapse.
And, LA has the bestest public transportation system in the country.

[Throd]

100. I love livin' in the USA

There are a lot of other countries where I would be happy as well. But I gotta admit, I have a pretty good life here in the Sierra foothills.

[naaman fletcher]

102. ask the millions of people trying to get in.

They seem to know.

[ZombieHorde]

103. Less censorship than most, or maybe even all, other countries.

Some countries allow more nudity on TV on non-pay-per-view, non-premium (HBO, etc.) channels, but overall, less media is censored in the U.S.

[Call Me Wesley]

116. You sure?

Here's from Reporters Without Borders, http://www.rsf.org

World press freedom ranking
N° Country Note
1 Finland 0,50
- Iceland 0,50
- Netherlands 0,50
- Norway 0,50
5 Denmark 1,00
- Trinidad and Tobago 1,00
7 Belgium 1,17
8 Germany 1,33
9 Sweden 1,50
10 Canada 1,83
11 Latvia 2,25
12 Czech Republic 2,50
- Estonia 2,50
- Slovakia 2,50
- Switzerland 2,50
16 Austria 2,75
17 Ireland 2,83
- Lithuania 2,83
- New Zealand 2,83
20 Slovenia 3,00
21 Hungary 3,33
- Jamaica 3,33
- South Africa 3,33
24 Costa Rica 3,83
25 Uruguay 4,00
26 France 4,17
27 United Kingdom 4,25
28 Portugal 5,17
29 Benin 5,25
30 Timor-Leste 5,50
31 Greece 6,00
- United States of America (American territory) 6,00

[ZombieHorde]

122. What media freedom does Finland have the U.S. does not?

What could be legally published in Finland, but not legally published in the U.S.?

[Heidi]

125. Oh, dear. You're not a journalist, are you?

This is not a matter of legal rights or constitutional rights. The US constituion guarantees a great many things that are dishonored in daily practice. Protection from torture is one, as I'm sure you'd agree. But we've tortured, haven't we?

It's a matter of many other nations' media not self-censoring to the degree that the US media self censors.

[ZombieHorde]

130. Self censorship and government censorship are two different things. nt

[Heidi]

119. You could not be more wrong.

Perhaps you meant "English-language media"...but even that would be inaccurate.

[ZombieHorde]

123. Then enlighten me. What media can not published in the U.S., but can be published elsewhere?

[Heidi]

124. It's not that it cannot, it's that the US media self-censors.

All for the good of the nation, you understand.

And before you attempt to kick the shit out of me: I was a reporter, photographer, editor, managing editor and ran a news service in the US for more than 20 years before I moved abroad. That you don't want to believe that the US media is more censored than other nations' media does not negate the fact that it is.

[ZombieHorde]

126. So your saying people censor themselves and blame it on other people? nt

[Heidi]

127. I'm saying the US media self censors.

You live there and defend the US media. You figure out why. Demand answers from your media affiliates. I don't exist to do your homework for you, though I would suggest that one of the reasons the US media self censors is because people like you allow it and, in fact, defend it.

[ZombieHorde]

128. You are using logical fallacies. This is not about me. Self censorship is not government

censorship. I can write down anything on a piece of paper, with the exception of state secrets and threats, and hand those papers out on the street corner. If I publish lies about someone, they can sue me for libel.

[HughBeaumont]

107. The Sex Panther?

http://thisiswhyyourefat.com/post/205952240/the-sex-panther-breaded-schnitzel-bacon-cheese

[Oeditpus Rex]

108. First one I thought of:

[Call Me Wesley]

113. Hand soccer!

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

111. After WWII when Europe was in shambles, the USA had a lot to offer refugee

immigrants from those countries. Of course we had FDR, Truman and even Eisenhower back then making sure that there was a large middle class. This is what made America great. However, today with the systematic erosion of the middle class, and the European nations moving into the twenty first century while we go backwards, I can't say the same any more.

[dolphindance]

114. This is the best place to be... bar none.

I'm tired of a certain group of socialist / marxist posters on this site who act like we are living under some kind of repressive regime.

[roamer65]

115. IMHO, Canada and Australia are a bit better.

There seems to be a bit more civility and "for the common good" in those countries, from my experience.

Our "rugged individualism" is a code word for outright selfishness here in the USA, much to our detriment.

It is not right to have so many homeless and disadvantaged people in a country of our wealth.

[ZombieHorde]

129. Australia has considerably more censorship than the U.S.

A lot of media has to be altered before being shipped to Australia, such as Ninja Gaiden Sigma.

[pink-o]

117. The RW'ers aren't talking about Patriotism. There idea is pure Jingoism

It's an America that doesn't exist, only in their racists, Norman Rockwell painting minds. But the real America was founded on the most liberal, progressive principles of the times; principles that are still relevant today. Too bad the corruption of $$$$$ threatens the American ideal on an hourly basis, but the foundation of the ideal is still with us.

I lived in England for 5 years, and they definitely have better health care, better education and better media than we do. But life runs far more efficiently here than it does anywhere in Europe. Maybe that's a personal preference, but if I ever moved back, I would miss that horribly. We take a lot of our technology for granted, a lot of our cheap clothes and myriad choices we just accept without question. Life is easier here, and no fair if you've just been a tourist in another country. Living there is totally different.

And in the last 15 years, the whole of western Europe has taken on American culture and lifestyle to the point where Piccadilly now looks like Herald Square. Paris has Starbucks (!!!) Sydney, Australia has Target, you can't walk two blocks in Rome without running into MCD's or KFC. I mean, this is ROME! Italy has the best food in Europe, but they're fascinated with all things Yankee.

Americans also accept new people in their communities more than Europeans. If you wanted to retire in the South of France, expect the locals to be very aloof, as they only take care of those who've lived there for years. You can do it the opposite way far more easily.

Just a few things. Don't get me wrong, if someone gave me a house in Rome, I'd pack up my stuff so fast it would defy the laws of physics! But there are definite advantages to living here as well.

[TransitJohn]

121. You don't need a visa to go most places.

You can just buy a plane ticket and enter most countries with your passport.

[HipChick]

132. you can get totally smash drunk and not be followed by CCTV on the way home..

[JNelson6563]

133. Well there are advantages compared to some countries

and not when compared to others.

Julie

[npk]

137. Two weeks paid vacation.

My god man is that not enough for you? What the hell more do you want?