Do you fear 2012?

[BurtWorm]

Yes or no (more than any other year)?

[MorningGlow]

1. Aw geez, not this shit again

NO NO AND NO. There is NOTHING to fear. And this is coming from a New Ager. The Mayans did NOT predict the end of the world, only a turn of the page of their calendar. There will NOT be any Rapture-like event, nor will there be any more natural disasters than usual.

Now can we PLEASE get off this? Shit, DU is like a dog with a particularly gnarly gristly bone sometimes. Chew on a subject till it begs for mercy, bury it, and then dig it up again and start all over.
:banghead:

[Myrina]

4. +10

I get so tired of the ill informed chicken-littles trying to make everyone afraid of 'The End of Days' and all that other fatalistic bullshit.

Its the mark of the next stage of the precession, like you said, a turning of the great page.

[BurtWorm]

10. To me that's just as nuts as thinking the world is going to end .

But I lived through the dawning of the age of Aquarius and the harmonic convergence and comet kohoutek, so what do I know? ;-)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

15. W2k nearly destroyed all of my electrical devices, what could be

worse than that?

[MorningGlow]

22. An astronomical precession is "nuts"?

It's an astronomical event--that's astroNOMical--that happens every 26,000 years. And the Mayans flip the page on their calendar.

Yeah, that qualifies as "nuts". Right.

[BurtWorm]

26. To refer to it as a flipping of a page is a little nuts.

It implies there's something written on the pages. It's a cycle with an arbitrary beginning that supposedly has some earthly significance. But the stars that the event refers to are indifferent to earthly goings on as most earthlings are as indifferent to them.

[MorningGlow]

29. You need to learn more about the Mayans

They had an astounding knowledge of astronomy and math, as well as a highly complex calendar system. They certainly did have plenty "written on the pages". Read up on it. You might be impressed--that is, IF you can check your 21st century ego at the door.

[BurtWorm]

42. I am impressed by the Mayas' science.

Not the religion so much.

[MorningGlow]

47. You were talking about (ridiculing) their science, not their religion

Ridiculing their knowledge of the precession (which is an astronomical fact), and claiming that there is nothing written on their calendar pages, has nothing to do with their religion.

[BurtWorm]

50. Nay, I was talking about the tendency to read significance into the positions of stars.

The way the Mayas were able to understand the apparent movement and cycles of stars through time, was indeed very impressive. What they thought it all meant was a crock of shit.

[MorningGlow]

51. I don't think you know what they thought n/t

[BurtWorm]

55. I know they thought the blood of sacrificed humans kept the universe alive.

Which is one of the reasons the cycle of the stars was so important to them.

[MorningGlow]

58. There's some dispute about that

Some theories are that the Mayans didn't participate in blood sacrifice at all and the claim was just to demonize them; other theories state that the Mayans of earlier eras didn't participate in blood sacrifice and only later, when they "lost the thread" of their beliefs, did they begin blood sacrifice. I don't think we'll ever know for certain.

However, let me ask you this--are you saying that if the Mayans did participate in sacrifice, this negates their scientific, astronomical, and mathematical skills, despite evidence that they had very advanced knowledge of all these subjects?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

62. Uh, human sacrifice by Mayans is well established.

Both in the archaeological record, and among the Mayans themselves.

"if the Mayans did participate in sacrifice, this negates their scientific, astronomical, and mathematical skills, despite evidence that they had very advanced knowledge of all these subjects? "

No. Although I don't think it was as very advanced as you think it is.

[BurtWorm]

66. Absolutely not! I am not saying that.

I thought I said pretty clearly that I respect their science. It's the religion I don't respect.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

49. You need to learn more about the Mayans.

The year 2012 involves no astronomical observations.

[MorningGlow]

52. PRON!!!!!

And your declarative statements! Ahhhh your saying "no it isn't" still makes it true, eh? I've missed you!!!!

But no, I'm not taking your nonsensical bait anymore. Go troll somebody else, now. Equal time and all that. :*

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. It's declarative, and it's true.

If you still want to claim that the ancient Mayans wrote all about crossing the galactic equator on 2012, then post the actual Mayan quote along side it's English translation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

48. To think there's an astronomical precession is nuts.

[Myrina]

30. google is your friend

The Precession is a scientific, astronomical fact. It happens approximately every 26,000 years, and we would be foolish to think that nobody (aside from apparently smartass scientifically illiterate people such as yourself) - especially ancient cultures who didn't have 'sky garbage' like pollution to deal with wouldn't know about it.

[Kalyke]

36. You didn't live through the age of Aquarius because it hasn't happened yet.

In fact, some people believe that the end of Mayan long-count calendar spells the actual dawn of the Age of Aquarius. Others think that age is still several hundreds of years away.

I think watching the sun rise in the belly of the eye of the universe will be cool, but I'm not scared of it. Amused, frankly, but not scared.

[BurtWorm]

9. No, we can't get off this.

:P

I saw the movie 2012 being advertised on the side of a bus this morning, and it occurred to me, if they were really afraid of 2012, why did they make a movie expecting to make a load of bucks off it? Why wouldn't they be running to some bunker in the hills? How, if anyone really believes the world is going to end, could they focus on anything at all? And I wondered if anyone on DU believed in it (and considering there are those on DU who believe the moon shots were staged, so why wouldn't there be someone on DU who believed in this?), maybe they could explain this to me. Maybe they expect to be raptured by a jaguar god?

[hfojvt]

12. I am so clueless

that I thought you were talking about the Presidential election for that year, and I thought 2010 is more, or as much, to be feared as 2012.

I shoulda known it was about a TV show or a movie, rather than about politics.

[BurtWorm]

14. Well, if 2012 is scary, it's precisely because of politics.

[MorningGlow]

23. Only because some people keep digging it up again

Wanting another flamewar. This has been covered ad nauseum and you know it.

So let's see--Roland Emmerich and others create a movie about the fictional worst-case scenario to make a ton of bucks off the lemmings' love of a good apocalypse, and you fall for it. And that's worthy of bringing up the subject again?

[BurtWorm]

27. I don't know it.

I haven't participated in any of those threads. This one is different, I assure you. ;-)

[beam me up scottie]

71. We're supposed to believe non-apocalyptic new age woo is more credible than apocalyptic new age woo.

Not all of the woos think the world will end, but most of them think something HUGH!!1! will happen.

Google "The Shift" if you want a free mini-lobotomy.

[HughBeaumont]

19. I never understood the whole want of apocalypse thing.

For some people, life really must be that bad that they hope for death or an apocalypse, whichever comes first. Movies like War of the Worlds, Know1ng and 2012 seem to be playing on those desires.

[MorningGlow]

24. Me neither

I went through that phase when I was a teenager--then I realized it was just another way of scaring ourselves. And I grew out of it.

The 2012 movie is totally playing on people's deep-seated fears of an apocalypse. I think it's cheap and demeaning and opportunistic. Or, you know, just another excuse to make millions and have a lot of "cool" explosions.

ETA: missing word

[anigbrowl]

59. it's not about hoping for an apocalypse

although that makes a convenient story device in this case. People have generalized anxieties about everything from the financial crisis to war to global warming; these are real issues that affect us in different ways, but as individuals we're largely powerless to do anything about them. So a big-budget eye-candy film about the end of the world is cathartic; you can empathize with a regular guy trying to save his family, but the whole context is so overblown that you don't have to take it too seriously.

Same reason films like the Da Vinci code and every other half-decent conspiracy story find an audience...it's entertaining to play with the idea that the world runs according to the rules laid out in some Secret Knowledge, but on guy or gal can find a path through it. Same as zombie movies where it's entertaining to play with the idea that the world is mostly inhabited by mindless creatures driven by base appetites, but a plucky hero/ine can find their way to safety. Most sci-fi and horror movies are metaphors about everyday worries...take the fantastical elements away and they're basically films about alienation or anxiety.

The fantastical element exercises the imagination and allows the viewer or reader to project themselves into the story rather than focus on the differences between themselves and the protagonist which can get in the way of a 'talking heads' movie, or the frustration of flawed characters in a banal situation who are just stuck, which leaves an audience feeling hopeless.

[Kalyke]

39. Knowing was a cool movie.

I used to have dreams of airplanes falling out of the sky and hitting cars on the interstate, so that scene particularly frightened me... and I don't scare very easily (I'm a horror movie/Halloween-time-of-the-year kind of gal).

The fact is that it's a movie. Some people like action/psycho thrillers and don't have a need or hope for an apocalypse.

[SidneyCarton]

57. +666?

Anyone who has studied pseudo-Apocalyptic events in history (Hiroshima, anyone?) and has a strong enough stomach and imagination to consider what it would have been like to go through that, and then try and imagine it a hundred fold worse, is less than anxious for the end of the world.

[Toasterlad]

35. I Insist We Keep Talking About This Until the Damage Done to the Moon Heals.

[JonQ]

2. I fear 2010

So far we've been able to say O-8 or O-9. But in 2010 how are we going to say the year shorthand? O-10 sounds odd to me.

I think that, more than anything, will lead to riots and anarchy and a great number of lives lost.

Fear 2010.

[slackmaster]

3. I look forward to being one of a handful of survivors in a smoldering post-Apocalyptic landscape

Be there or be dead!

[Barack_America]

5. Yes, I'll be starting my intern year of residency and it's going to be awful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. Now that is something to fear

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. No, why should I?

Now as a joke we will hold an end of the world party...

PARTYYYYY!!!!!!

I don't drink on principle, so at least I will not have a splitting hang over next day.

:-)

[csziggy]

8. I'm worried about the elections in 2010 and 2012

I think a lot of the people who worked hard last year will not be willing or able to do it again. I know I will not be able to afford to put in the time, effort and money I did in 2008 unless my personal finances change drastically for the better. And even if the money is there, I cannot physically do what I did last year.

The progressive liberals around here will have to see a lot more movement on the causes we fought for to get as inspired again.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. 2012 is a number. I fear no numbers.

Or a year, but why fear a year?
Years are artificial constructs giving us a sense of circularity.
Now beneath the numbers and the year, there is time.
Time that lessens me every day.
It is that lessening I fear, Time.

[ipfilter]

13. I fear all of the hysteria that will precede Dec 21, 2012.

It will be Y2K all over again.

[Echo In Light]

16. Undecided re the nature of an epochal era ... doubtful that 'change' is contingent on the exact date

Although it's amusing that the subject matter tends to really fire up the barking name-callers and screamers.

[azmouse]

17. I bet there'll be some awesome parties on Dec 20. 2012!

[Kalyke]

40. Heck, there will probably be even better parties on Dec. 22, 2012!!

[redqueen]

18. Yes and no...

I don't fear the kind of stuff that's portrayed in that movie. Such things may happen but there's no point in worrying about it.

What I ever so slightly worry about is the social upheaval that comes with big changes. We have already seen the craziness that just electing a non-white guy to the WH has sparked... so I wonder what kind of nonsense fearful people might get up to if/when other primitive beliefs (bigotry or whatever other forms) are challenged over the next few years.

[liberal_at_heart]

20. not anymore than I feared 2000

And I didn't fear 2000 either.

[peace frog]

21. And as it happened

2000 turned out to be far worse than anyone feared: SC gave us George W Bush for president. The rest is history.

[zippy890]

25. Woo Hoo! can't wait

for the phase shifting to occur. forget the earthquakes, its gonna be subtle to us at first and may-haps some troubles adapting, I for one welcome our other-dimensional reality. or whatever will happen when the galactic discs of the event horizon and the Circle of 13 and the Zero Point all merge.

there is no smiley to do this justice
>insert heightened awareness aura smiley<

[spiritual_gunfighter]

28. Only if Sarah Palin is elected President

Then we will all know that the Mayan's were correct.

[bikebloke]

31. Heck yes!

I'll be wrapping myself in plastic, then sealing it with duct tape. :P

[closeupready]

32. It just depends.

If Democrats fail to get anything done (DADT, a strong public option, cutting defense spending), then they deserve to fail (and I will leave the party and DU). So why would I fear that?

I strongly believe if they do these things, they will do just fine, maybe even pick up a few more seats.

[Kievan Rus]

33. I won't unless Sarah Palin gets elected President

Because if she does...her with the launch codes means that the world really will end in 2012!

[MercutioATC]

34. Yes, because my contract at work only lasts through 2012.

The last time we had to negotiate a new contract, we worked without one for three years.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

37. i think obama will be reelected easily unless somethign goes horribly wrong

some of the dem congress critters i am more afraid for

[Romulox]

38. Yes, but only because it follows 2009. nt

[evenso]

41. On Christmas Eve, 2012......

what are all these shlubs gonna believe in. I think they'll be very disappointed. They'll have to pick a new year to fear.

[asdjrocky]

43. Almost as much as YK2 and killer bees.

[asdjrocky]

44. dupe

[Nikki Stone1]

45. Only if Palin is running

Then it might be the end of the world. :)

[krabigirl]

46. Only because there's an election that year. Some Taliban-esque nutcase could gain control.

That alone is more frightening than any Mayan hocus-pocus.

[Posteritatis]

53. I fear those stupid enough to believe it'll be an apocalypse or something, does that count? (nt)

[philly_bob]

56. REC as antidote to Mayan Calendar superstitious movie hype.

Glad to see 93% of DUers are immune...

[DireStrike]

60. I'm looking forward to it.

If the world ends, that'll be that. Might be cool to watch before dying.

If it doesn't, we can keep on keepin on.


But either way, we can stop hearing about fucking 2012. I mean come on. I enjoy this eschatological shit more than most people, but fucking really. ENOUGH already.

[yawnmaster]

61. 2012 what?

[Libertas1776]

63. NO

It's 1912 that I'm afraid of. Sure, this year is 2009, next year its '10, then '11 and everything's hunky dory...then BAM! time warp and its 1912. You never know :silly: :crazy:

[DearAbby]

64. Is this like the Y2K shit?

2012 is just another number...

[fujiyama]

65. Depends on the presidential polls

My moods drastically alternate during election years!

On edit: Were you talking about the other "event" that year? The Olympics? Nothing to fear there... :silly:

[freeplessinseattle]

67. Yes, because I turn 40 n/t

[Blue-Jay]

68. Fer fuck's sake.

[icymist]

69. I'm sick and tired of movies like this.

Oh, you mean the year 2012. Nevermind.

[beam me up scottie]

70. Other. I want to know if I can have everyone's stuff after The Shift.

Depending on who's doing the woo, the "Shift" is all about transformation of consciousness, quantum awakening, turning to the light, reuniting with other light workers/star people, changing your DNA so that you'll get off on the higher vibrations, and/or living in the 5th dimension, blah blah blah, etc.


How much you want to bet skeptics and scientists will be blamed when the Woo Age Rapture doesn't happen?

[DaveinJapan]

72. I picked "other".

I fear more for our descendants (if any) circa December 9999.

Because when THEY start carrying on about the wise and clairvoyant "Ancient Westerners" and our brilliantly perfect calendar that somehow predicted the end of times, won't that be a hoot. :cry: