Vatican plan to lure Anglicans accepts married priests

[lovuian]

http://www.newsday.com/news/world/vatican-plan-to-lure-anglicans-accepts-married-priests-1.1534067

The Vatican announced Tuesday it was making it easier for Anglicans to convert to Roman Catholicism — a surprise move designed to entice traditionalists opposed to women priests, openly gay clergy and the blessing of same-sex unions.

The decision, reached in secret by a small cadre of Vatican officials, was sure to add to the problems of the 77-million-strong Anglican Communion as it seeks to deal with deep doctrinal divisions that threaten a permanent schism among its faithful.

The change means conservative Anglicans from around the world will be able to join the Catholic Church while retaining aspects of their Anglican liturgy and identity, including married priests. Until now, disaffected Anglicans had joined the church primarily on a case by case basis.

"The unity of the church does not require a uniformity that ignores cultural diversity, as the history of Christianity shows," said Cardinal William Levada, head of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in announcing the decision.

The spiritual leader of the global Anglican church, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams, was not consulted about the change and was informed only hours before the announcement. He nevertheless tried to downplay the significance and said it wasn't a Vatican commentary on Anglican problems.

"It has no negative impact on the relations of the communion as a whole to the Roman Catholic Church as a whole," he said in London.

[Dogmudgeon]

1. The RC Church will open the clergy to marriage soon, I'm certain

It's gotten to the point where the survival of the church is at stake.

I'm not a big fan of Catholicism, but it's still a cultural 800 pound gorilla.

Yet, the Dalai Lama still enforces monastic celibacy, and has no shortage of aspirants. Funny how that works.

--d!

[DemBones DemBones]

7. Traditional Catholic seminaries are full; these are orders

that train future priests to say the Traditional Latin Mass or TLM. Most Catholics are still attending vernacular Masses but the Latin Masses are growing in popularity, with the pope's help. A lot of the people attending TLMs are young and find the TLM a more spiritual rite, hence the full traditional seminaries. It's an interesting development.

[pnwmom]

12. I'm not sure I believe this. I've also heard that cloistered orders of nuns

had more applications than other orders, but the statistics turned out to be skewed.

What is a "traditional Catholic seminary" anyway? For several decades, the standard Mass has not been the Latin Mass, but the Mass performed in the local vernacular. Any Catholic seminary that trains only in the Latin Mass is on the fringe, hardly "traditional."

And, as Vatican II recognized, the very earliest services in the Christian Church were performed in the local vernacular -- not in Latin. In the sense of "oldest," traditional in this case would mean "vernacular." And in the case of "most widely accepted," traditional would also mean "vernacular."

[hedgehog]

23. Tossing around unsupported numbers begs the question of

what kind of person is interested in a so-called traditional seminary. (I say unsupported because I have never seen actual numbers of any sort). How many men who end up in traditional seminaries were rejected by other dioceses first?

The bishops who boast of having large number of seminarians because of their devotion to tradition also have reputations for making the rigid application of rules regarding human sexuality the focus of their pastoral care. They want parishes in which the pastors control every aspect and the lay people meekly donate their time and money to do whatever the pastor says. This is exactly the culture that led to the sexual exploitation women and children by priests. What better feeding ground for a predator than a group of people conditioned to so whatever the priest says because the priest is God on Earth and must be obeyed?

What kind of priest calms to love God while disregarding God's people?

[pnwmom]

9. No shortage compared to what? I bet the Dalai Lama needs very few aspirants. n/t

[Liberal_in_LA]

2. Let women become priests also

[pnwmom]

10. That's exactly why some Anglicans want to leave their Church.

They think Catholics have the right idea.

ugh.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. So much for "rules handed down by God"..........Guess when you see your church

dwindling every day...you find a reason to compromise....

Shocked, I say...I am shocked..

[lovuian]

4. Well heres the BIGGIE its not marriage anymore

its NO WOMEN BISHOPS
thats a NO NO

[Canuckistanian]

5. Next thing you know, they'll be taking Latin out of the liturgy

Oh, wait....

[piratefish08]

14. next thing you know you'll be able to eat a burger on fridays........

all of gods rules, just ripped apart at the seams......

[DemBones DemBones]

6. There have been married Catholic priests for twenty years or more,

IIRC. The deal is that individual married Anglican or Episcopal priests who choose to convert to Catholicism can then become Catholic priests. I think this step, which was taken by Pope John Paul II, was an opening step for the Church to allow all priests to marry, but don't expect it next year.

The bigger, newer story is that a large group of Anglicans wanted to join the Catholic Church while keeping some features of their rites, including bringing all their married priests with them. Discussions have been going on for two years or more and any Anglican or Catholic who keeps up with what's going on in their particular rite knew this. The Catholic Church didn't "lure" the Anglicans, either, they knocked on Rome's door.

All that's news here is that an agreement has been worked out to both group's satisfaction. It was announced two or three days ago.

Newsdaze cracked me up with "The decision, reached in secret by a small cadre of Vatican officials. . ." In other words, a committee met and the proceedings weren't public until the final agreement was reached. But "in secret by a small cadre of Vatican officials" sounds so much more DaVinci Code. :rofl:

[TexasProgresive]

13. I'm wondering how this is different from what was in effect

My former pastor was an episcopalian priest who converted to Catholicism and after some seminary he was ordained as a Catholic priest. This same process brought about the ordination of a Lutheran pastor (both married) in our diocese.

I was aware of 2 parishes made up of former Episcopalians that were served by former Episcopalian priests using an Anglican rite for Mass.

One big difference may be this thing about supervision- The AngloCatholics may get their own bishops like the Eastern Catholic churches.

But I admit I am still confused and as of yesterday the Constitution was not posted on the Vatican web site.

[DemBones DemBones]

16. Just 400,000 Anglicans crossing the Tiber at once,

I guess. Imagine if they all actually swam the Tiber, what a sight that would be.

Here's what I've seen about bishops:

"Addressing the status of married clergy, the cardinal said that married Anglican clergy would be allowed to be ordained as Catholic priests just as takes place in the Eastern Catholic and Orthodox Churches. Similarly, following the same tradition, those priests will not be allowed to be ordained bishops."

Also, the bishops of the Traditional Anglican Communion "signed their approval of the Catechism of the Catholic Church at a ceremony in England" two years ago. I guess they will remain priests but not bishops, if they are married.

[TexasProgresive]

18. So, do you think the Vatican is bringing the Anglicans in as a

Church/rite like the Eastern Churches- where they will have their own provinces and dioceses with Archbishops and bishops?

[kwassa]

20. more like 400 Anglicans crossing the Tiber

The limitations on bishopic celebicy will stop the conservative Episcopals from joining; several want to be their own pope, and will not cede authority to the RCC. They want to BE the authority.

[QC]

25. Yep. Most of the schismatics here are just Baptists playing dress up,

and all want pointy hats of their own, so they are not going to migrate to Rome.

This story, for all the media play it is getting, means nothing.

[hedgehog]

8. So, conservative Anglicans will cross the Tiber for the chance

to keep hating gays and to treat women as 2nd class humans, while Rome will welcome married priests with open arms as long as they agree to keep hating gays and to treat women as 2nd class humans. A marriage made in heaven?

[pnwmom]

11. Isn't this depressing? Now I wish

the remaining Anglicans/Episcopalians would put out a similar welcome mat for Catholics who are sick of misogyny and homophobia.

[theHandpuppet]

15. Yep, that sums it up pretty well

I wonder what the demographic of these conservative Anglicans might be? If it's an older crowd, this trend won't last.

[DemBones DemBones]

17. Catholics are free to swim the Tiber away from Rome

and are welcomed by Anglicans and Episcopalians, not to mention by all other denominations.

You really should stop making outrageous statements suggesting that the Catholic Church asks its members to "agree to keep hating gays and to treat women as 2nd class humans." The Catechism teaches otherwise, as you surely know.

[hedgehog]

19. It's a circular argument:

1. You have to follow Church teachings to be a Catholic.

2. Who writes the Church teachings?

3. Some unnamed bishops and priests in Rome.

4. Who selects those bishops and priests?

5. Other unnamed bishops and priests.

6. Who says these bishops and priests are the sole determinants of Church teachings?

7. They do.

But what if they're wrong? John XXIII spent his dying strength putting the Church back on the pilgrimage road, but others would rather see the Church shrivel away than give up one particle of their high status.

The one sign of conservatives or traditionalists or whatever you want to call them is to insist on imposing rules and labels on others, rules and labels to bar them from the presence of God. Jesus had a lot to say about people who engage in that activity, not to mention what he said about those who harm children!

What kind of Church is it that prides itself on adherence to rules formulated in the 17th century and its willingness to exclude so many? What kind of Church tells the Paraclete that Revelation is finished, that we have nothing more to learn, that God should learn to stay in that tidy little gold tabernacle and stop teaching us to love one another, thank you very much?

The One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is going through some tough times, but is soon going to shake itself free of control by this small group of crabbed old men. That Church will find itself joyfully praising God, spreading the Good News and building the Kingdom. The Roman Catholic Church is on the way to becoming a small cult dedicated to preserving empty museums that used to be churches full of worshipers.

[waiting for hope]

27. +1

Nicely done :)

[Rudy Adams]

21. A slap in the face.....

...to lifelong Catholics like my good friend, Father Edward Brophy, who has played by his Church's rules on celibacy throughout his 40 years in the priesthood.

In choosing "Benedict," Joe Ratzinger named himself most aptly!

[QC]

22. That's a really, really misleading headline.

Married men can become priests, as has been the case for some time now, but priests still cannot get married.

[hedgehog]

24. Please document your statement.

[shimmergal]

26. There's a lot of "traffic" both ways already--

Our parish (Episcopalian) has at least three priests who started out as RC priests and then became Episcopalian. With two of them the celibacy rules likely played some part; at least they're married now, but the third, a former monk, is still single after many years.

And on the question about the age range: I belong to a women's order within the church; most of its members are 50 or older. In the wake of the gay bishop controversy, about 4 or 5 of our longtime members quit and joined a nearby start-up "Anglican" church. You know what? They've all come back now. The Anglican priest wouldn't allow women to have any decision-making authority in "his" church, so they left. So much for patriarchy!

About the drop in membership. That's similar to what's happening in most mainstream Protestant churches, I think, and even beyond-- part of the "bowling alone" effect. I do wish, though, that we'd come up with a P.R. initiative to reach out to people who value both traditional ritual and openness to social justice and change. Our Presiding Bishop has taken the UN's development decade goals as her own agenda too. But you hardly evere read about this. The media would much rather write about gender wars and possible schism than about anti-poverty, pro-education initiatives.