Venezuela Seizes a Landmark Hilton Hotel

[Bo]

Source: Breitbart

President Hugo Chavez has ordered the "acquisition by force" of a landmark Hilton Hotel on Venezuela's Margarita island, the government's Official Gazette announced Tuesday.
The facility, on the Caribbean resort island of Margarita in Nueva Esparta state, was targeted for state takeover less than a month after it was used to host the Africa-South America Summit.

"The acquisition by force of the real estate, furnishings, and related assets (...) of the Margarita Hilton & Suites Hotel Complex, along with the Marina owned by Inversiones Pueblamar y Desarrollos MBK, have been ordered," a presidential decree in the official


Read more: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.641f6a1ace6620056b73f6b56e7b6cd8.b31&show_article=1

---

El Presidente Por Vida is up to his old shennanigans again. Meet the new Boss same as the old Boss.

[Duke Newcombe]

1. Sssshhhh!! It's not a Bad Thing(tm) when Hugo does it.

Didn't you get the memo?

[Vidar]

45. It would be even better if Obama would.

[Cha]

84. Why?

[question everything]

60. +1

Chavez is a sacred cow on DU.

[Ian David]

2. That's so not hot. n/t

[slackmaster]

3. I wonder where all the good booze went when they raided the bars

No doubt to the top military brass or Hugo himself.

IBTCAB (In Before The Chavez Apologist Brigade)

[EFerrari]

4. There was no raid.

It's a real estate purchase.

lol

[Bo]

5. I was wondering the same thing about the Booze

Now that a Drink of Jack Daniels or JW 12 is about $25 a pop.

[Ikonoklast]

6. I'm sure it was for a valid reason, like...um....ah....

Well, I got nuthin'.


Seems that Hugo wants to build up the tourist industry, but doesn't want to invest any money to do so.

I guess theft is an acceptable course of action in order to attain those goals.


For the good of the people, of course.

[EFerrari]

7. Oh, brother. This is the article Breitbart rewrote just for his discerning readers

to make it sound like "theft":

Associated Press

Chavez orders Hilton hotel purchase in Venezuela

By JORGE RUEDA , 10.13.09, 04:46 PM EDT

CARACAS, Venezuela --

President Hugo Chavez has ordered his government to buy a Hilton-run hotel on Venezuela's Margarita Island.

Chavez issued a decree last week ordering the "forced acquisition" of the Margarita Hilton & Suites and its marina. The president's order was reported by Venezuelan media Tuesday, after being published in the Official Gazette on Friday.

The decree clears the way for Chavez's government to expropriate the hotel. It's unclear how much Venezuela will pay or how soon.

Chavez last month hosted a summit at the hotel with leaders including Libya's Moammar Gadhafi, and suggested the hotel could become the headquarters of a new bloc of African and South American nations.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2009/10/13/business-lt-venezuela-hilton_6996791.html

[fascisthunter]

9. awesome...

busted

[Ikonoklast]

10. I want your house.

I am going to take it, and tell you what I'll pay for it...someday.

When I feel like getting around to it.

I'll let you know what I'll give you for it.



In the meanwhile, vacate the property.

[EFerrari]

13. Oh, baloney. The Ven government gives fair market value.

And, you're welcome.

[Ikonoklast]

20. Bull. They've gone to international arbitration on lots of these nationalization issues.

But you already know that.

Huge sums have been written off around the world due to outright losses of private industry due to nationalization efforts by Venezuela.

Fair market is whatever they feel like paying.

[EFerrari]

23. My heart bleeds for Exxon et al!

[high density]

54. If you believe that we've got a bridge to sell ya! NM

[krkaufman]

17. You can just say "eminent domain" in the future, to save time. n/t

[Tempest]

44. Sounds like eminent domain here in the U.S.

Just ask some of the people who have had to take local governments to court to get fair market value.

Like the guy who sued Arlington for taking his land for Bush's new baseball stadium in Texas.

[WriteDown]

48. Or the people who lost their land to Jerry's death star. nt

[toopers]

75. Yes, remember Kelo vs Connecticut?

Changed the use of eminent domain. A travesty!

[Vidar]

46. W call that "eminent domain" in this country, whenever the government wants to

build something.

[Igel]

88. In this case they're building nothing.

The claim is it's run down and the government will invest money. ("El hotel Hilton en la isla Margarita, al norte de Venezuela, presentaba un "deterioro muy avanzado" en sus instalaciones y servicio, por lo que el gobierno decidió expropiarlo para "socializarlo", mejorar sus servicios y convertirlo en un centro de capacitación turística.")

At the same time, they complain that it's "elite" tourism and they should have "the people's tourism" (I lack a good translation for "turismo popular"). ("Vamos a instalar pronto aquí en Margarita la secretaría permanente" de la cumbre, dijo entonces Chávez. "En este hotel hay mucho espacio, te imaginas trabajar aquí", comentó.)

On the other hand, it'll be the permanent seat of the secretariat for the group that--apparently to Hugo's great embarrassment--met there a month or so ago. ("Confirmó, además, que en sus instalaciones estará la sede de la secretaría permanente de la Cumbre América del Sur-África (ASA), cuya creación se decidió en el segundo encuentro de países suramericanos y africanos que se celebró a finales del pasado septiembre precisamente en el Margarita Hilton." ""Vamos a instalar pronto aquí en Margarita la secretaría permanente" de la cumbre, dijo entonces Chávez. "En este hotel hay mucho espacio, te imaginas trabajar aquí", comentó.")

They also claim it's been run under a "contrato leonino", in other words somebody was making money and it wasn't Venezuela's government. (""Ayer se le venció a la cadena Hilton el contrato leonino que tuvo sobre ese hotel por más de 20 años", dijo Morejón al canal estatal Venezolana de Televisión, sin dar más detalles de ese contrato." Notice the neat military-style metaphor characteristic of, well, certain progressives..)

They'll pay for it. Well, they say they'll eventually decide how much they pay. Of course, there's no conflict of interest when the government decides it needs something and decides how much the government will pay for it.

Of course, it accomplishes something that the internationalist Hugo has long desired: Yet another yanqui business off his property. Although I can't quite shake the impression that what happened was along these lines:

Qadhafi: "Hey, Huguito, that's a pretty nifty vehicle you have to making sure that we're the leaders of those Africans. And that's a pretty sweet complex you have there. How about you put us there--it's a burden, having the run of a marina, set of stores, large hotel, restaurant, and everything else, right on the Caribbean. But hey, being in charge of everything is hard work and, well, we're special. We deserve it."
Huguito: "You know, you're right. Why are we letting the monied elite there when we political elite could have it for ourselves? Who's more important--them or us? Bah, silly question. Me, of course. I'm sorry, good friend, "us." But what's the pretext?"
Qadhafi: "You know, I actually had to request the porn channel. And when I set up my stuff I ruined the carpet and some of the wallpaper. It wasn't fixed before I left."
Hugito: "Aha! It's run down, and an embarrassment to my great fatherland. Consider it done, my dear friend. The secretariat will be there, thus endearing us to the Africans and making sure that we can control that organization. Will you be there at least annually?"
Qadhafi: "But of course, either me or my son, Sword of Islam. Not that his name is in the least religious."

http://www.telegrafo.com.ec/mundo/noticia/archive/mundo/2009/10/14/Gobierno-de-Venezuela-incauta-Hilton-de-isla-Margarita-.aspx
http://www.radioformula.com.mx/noticias/internacional/expropia-venezuela-complejo-hotelero-hilton-en.html
http://www.elnuevodiario.com.ni/internacionales/59303
http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1186091

[tama]

69. This is even better:

I make money out of nothing. I lend you the non-existing money so that you can build your house, in return for real money payments and INTERESTS. When you can't pay back the interests of non-existing money with real money earned in wage-slavery, I'll take your house.

[sabrina 1]

76. I think you'd have a better chance of a fair price in Venezuela

if your property is taken over, than you would here. Have you ever followed the cases in this country where property is confiscated by the government for 'the common good'? If a new Walmart is for the common good, that is.

Should we expect to see a similar headline from the same 'news' sources the next time it happens here?

Obama Confiscates home of Elderly Couple who lived there all their lives

Because that would be fair and balanced, even if not factual. But those are the journalistic standards you just supported for Venezuela, should they be different for the US?

[krkaufman]

12. Yeah, I thought we were supposed to get warnings when RW sources are cited?

And thanks for the relink.

When we do it, it's called Eminent Domain; when our enemies do it, it's called "seizing" and "theft." I have no immediate opinion on Chavez's action, not having full information, but it remains to be seen how different Chavez's action is from, say, George W. Bush's baseball-related land grab -- aside from one being for public benefit, the other private.

[EFerrari]

14. I don't know much about the deal yet. But, that area had a pretty active drug trade

that the government has been trying to interdict in various ways. Nationalizing the ports was a big step. Shaking up the economy that had settled around illicit business dealings may be another one. Too soon to tell, I think.

I didn't even know we could post Breitbart stuff here. He's awful.

[krkaufman]

15. On review, the Breitbart article is NO different from the AFP original

... as seen, here, on Yahoo! news:

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/091013/business/venezuela_economy_privatization

[EFerrari]

19. I stand corrected. I didn't check the AFP. n/t

[Judi Lynn]

18. Spinning like dervishes, these "journalists!"

Chavez Orders Hilton Hotel Purchase In Venezuela
By The Associated Press 10/13/09 - 04:46 PM EDT

~snip~
Chavez last month hosted a summit at the hotel with leaders including Libya's Moammar Gadhafi, and suggested the hotel could become the headquarters of a new bloc of African and South American nations.

The Venezuela-based company Inversiones Pueblamar CA, listed as one of the hotel's owners, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Another company listed as an owner, Desarrollos MBK CA, could not be reached for comment.

Karla Visconti, a spokeswoman for Hilton Worldwide, the company that manages the hotel, said it is analyzing the move to determine how its interest in the hotel will be affected.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/10610974/1/chavez-orders-hilton-hotel-purchase-in-venezuela.html

[Occulus]

21. That would fall under "eminent domain" here in the US

I thought I'd point that out.

People who don't like Chavez or his policies can complain all they want, but the sad fact is that we do this exact same thing here in the United States, and in fact our own Constitution explicitly provides for exactly this. Moreover, that power has been used here in the United States to seize not corporate property, as the Venezuelan government is doing, but property owned by individual citizens to the direct benefit of corporations.

We're much worse than Venezuela in this regard, and I wish people would stop pretending that that isn't the case.

[Judi Lynn]

28. Completely different goals, motivation, and consequences. Absolutely true. n/t

[WriteDown]

56. When are you heaing down there for a visit?

And how is the Spanish coming along?

[high density]

24. Forced acquisition...

What do you think that means?

[EFerrari]

27. It doesn't mean Hugo Chavez rode into the Hilton bar on his black horse

with his homies to shoot up the place and ogle the waitresses.

But I'm sure that's next!!!!11111 He's been to IRAN, you know.

/road for rode

[high density]

29. No it meant he rode in with a piece of paper and said, give me your property

Much better than riding in on a black horse.

[EFerrari]

49. OMG! Not a PIECE OF PAPER!

Alert the media! And Breitbart!

[high density]

52. If you think that sounds so great...

Why don't you hop on a plane down to Caracas, start up your own successful business, and then wait for Chavez to come for the keys.

[tama]

72. Not a bad idea

IIRC Venezualan society has helped starting hundreds of thousands succesfull businesses (AFAIK mainly co-ops) with starting loans.

Much depends, of course, on what is meant by "succesfull". If succesfull means supporting life and and being usefull to community, that is not enough to be really succesfull, wink wink... to be really succesfull got to have them profits for stockholders and stockholder interests protected police and army and what not.

Real success, as we know, means not doing any honest work, just owning lots of stocks and living of wage and other slavery that produces profits for stock holders.

[EFerrari]

86. I'm sure the multinationals appreciate your solicitude. n/t

[Igel]

89. Probably better than the way he's dealt forcible acquisitions.

In the past they've just shown up with men in uniform sporting automatic or semi-automatic weapons. Seems that they suspected that people wouldn't be grateful for having their property seized and wanted to keep them from sabotaging it (even as they went to court to try to have it returned--meaning the Chavistas assume that people are going to destroy property they want back; the force of distrust is strong in them).

[EFerrari]

94. I seriously don't think it's Chavistas that have a problem with distrust here.

The Ven government has apparently been the majority stock holder in this hotel for the last 14 years. DUer rabs found this.

Mayoría accionaria de Hotel Margarita Hilton pertenecía al Estado venezolano desde hace 14 años

http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/59597-NN/mayoria-accionaria-de-hotel-margarita-hilton-pertenecia-al-estado-venezolano-desde-hace-14-anos/

So, let's see. There was no theft and the "seizure" was only the one induced by the right wing media because the Ven government has been intervening in this property since before Chavez was even in office. lol

[fascisthunter]

8. lol..... suuurrrreeeee

[Mr. Sparkle]

11. Im moving gradually into the anti Chavez camp.

He is an left wing extremist the same way the republicans are right wing extremists.

[sabrina 1]

30. Funny, I used to be sort of in that camp. And then I did some

research. If Breitbart and his cohorts who appear to have made it a mission to go after Democratic leaders in S. America, is who you are allowing to influence you, I suggest you do a little research on that individual.

Here's just a small sample of who is responsible for this article:

http://thinkprogress.org/2009/08/26/breitbart-kennedy-twitter/



Andrew Breitbart unleashes a torrent of invective against Sen. Ted Kennedy's legacy on twitter

Early this morning, news broke that Sen. Ted Kennedy had passed away after serving in the U.S. Senate for nearly 50 years. Soon after, conservative commentator Andrew Breitbart began a sustained assault on Kennedy’s memory, tweeting “Rest in Chappaquiddick.”

Over the course of the next three hours, Breitbart unapologetically attacked Kennedy, calling him a “villain,” “a big ass motherf@#$er,” a “duplicitous bastard” and a “prick.” “I’ll shut my mouth for Carter. That’s just politics. Kennedy was a special pile of human excrement,” wrote Breitbart in one tweet.

He's a Drudge 'protege', a far-right loon who I would not believe if he said the sky was blue without checking for myself. This little tirade is just a very small sample of his 'crediblity'. He makes Rush Limbaugh look like Rachel Maddow.

We get nothing but distorted news about Venezuela in this country and the reasons are obvious. Every time I see a story like this and then go to real news (not from the US, it doesn't exist) about Venezuela, the story is entirely different.

Why would someone post anything expecting it to have credibility on this site, from someone like Breitbart? Would we trust Rush Limbaugh on any topic? All I can say is, I would trust Rush more than this guy who is a no-talent Rush wannabe, and that's not saying much. No wonder we cannot win, even when we are in the majority.

[Mr. Sparkle]

47. I remember reading that article on TP back when it was posted.

I never heard of the guy up until then, hes a horrible scumbag, right up there with the rest of the far right loons.

but the source of the article was the AFP http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5i2mnFYxGrqNoAVimoHzM1rmC9wZQ . I liked Chavez and I supported what he was doing. He really was a champion of the poor. But over the last few years he is gone too far, and from my vantage point, is turning into a left wing tinpot dictator. Power is an aphrodisiac and I think it has gone to his head.

Which is a shame, as he used to be one of the good guys down there.

[EFerrari]

50. Venezuelans seems to think he still is and expecially the folks in Nueva Esparta

who are going to enjoy a more developed tourist industry and at the same time, the clean up of the old boy drug running which was too common in that area. The Ven government has been working on this project for some time.

[spanza]

73. The folks in Nva Esparta don't vote for him or his party.

Chavistas always loose the elections in that region.

[EFerrari]

83. It is an opposition stronghold as well as a drug running center.

Gee, what are the odds.

[spanza]

90. Yes. The people/politicians who are not chavista sell more drugs!

The drug trafficking happens because of the "opposition". Not because of the government, even if it has control of 3/4 of the regional powers and 19/20 of the legislators.

[EFerrari]

93. What do those numbers have to do with the trafficking in Nueva Esparta?

As you pointed out, the opposition gets elected there. Are they so incompetent that they don't know what was happening right under their noses?

lol

[spanza]

115. LOL

Yes, of course, tiny little island state of Nva Esparta is the drug running center of the country. Cocaine comes in submarines and boats from Colombia to the other side of the map, in order to avoid passing through the chavista rest of the country, which is really clean!

And you're right, it's the regional police that takes care of the drug trafficking, not the anti-narcotics national police. It's a fact, people who are not chavista are generally incompetent! So, generally, if there are problems in Venezuela, it's because of the "opposition". How should we solve those problems then? :)

[Psephos]

62. Agreed on Breitbart.

Disagreed that our loony fringers are any less disgusting than theirs. I've seen some seriously depraved stuff, and it keeps on spewing from both ends of the pipe.

Until net technology allows us to connect actual persons with their rants, and interact with them as people rather than as words on a screen, political and religious discourse will continue at its current animal level.

Strike that. I've just insulted animals.

[Greyhound]

123. Well don't let this infotainment piece sway you.

Do a bit of research yourself and find out the whole story.

[SIMPLYB1980]

16. Don't worry it's OK when Leader Chavez does it.

:sarcasm:

[bitchkitty]

22. Oooooooh NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!111!!! LOL

More like, los tontos por siempre are up their old shenanigans again....

[EFerrari]

25. These threads are hilarious.

Hugo Chavez is going to blow up my country club with IRANIAN missiles!!1!111111 All the freepers say it's true!!!!!!!!1111

lol

[bitchkitty]

68. What gets me are how Venezuelan 'locals' always

seem to find their way here, to DU, to jump in and defend the turds being dropped in the punchbowl.

[EFerrari]

82. Oh, yeah. Three at a time show up -- all "leftists" and all anti-Chavez.

My favorite part is when they talk to each other on threads no one else will bother with.

[sabrina 1]

26. You're posting garbage from BREITBART???

Well, we can rest assured that we are getting the whole story from that source! :rofl:

Seriously, do you know who this guy is? Let me see if I can find his hate-filled raging tirade against Ted Kennedy when the news of his death was announced, amongst other things.

No surprise to see such a 'respected' member of the rabid right slam a South American Democratically elected president, but it is always surprising to see people on a democratic board jump on the bandwagons of such vile people without even checking another source to get some facts. Breitbart is nto known for his credibility and that's putting it mildly.

He hates poor people whether they are in Venezuela or in the US, and of course, minorities. He is currently being sued by ACORN for his role in the stunt played by the far right to try to stop ACORN from registering all those 'minority' voters who are known to vote for Democrats.

Some sources should simply not be used on a democratic site, imho, except as an example of how low our news media has sunk.

CHavez is hated by the rabid right as he has interfered with their predatory Capitalist heroes' ravaging of the resources of the people of South America.

A despicable human being, Breitbart, and he's proud of it.

[high density]

31. Except it's an AFP report

Thanks for trying though. See post 15 in this thread.

[sabrina 1]

36. Breitbart and the AFB on anything to do with

Democratic governments in S. America are on the same page. The only difference in the two is that the AFB attempts to preserve an aura of legitimacy. They give no facts, no information other than that a hotel was taken over. When challenged, they simply say 'but we just reported the facts that we had'.

Too often their articles on S. American countries are written the same way. Only after doing some research to find some more facts does a different story emerge.

But, why you, who I presume are not a rabid, rightwing Republican, would take anything published by the likes of Breitbart or any US source on oil-rich countries around the world, without question, without looking for some more legitmate sources, is a mystery to me.

Breitbart knows where to go to get negative news on Venezuela or any of the S. American countries now establishing their right to govern themselves and to use their resources for their own people. He is a despicable individual, and I can certainly back up that statement. It's a shame to see some people follow their lead.

[high density]

51. Well, ball is in your court to prove that the AFP report is bullshit

I don't give a shit who Breitbart is, I don't know him. But I certainly do respect Agence France-Presse as a very legitimate news source. You have given me no facts to dispute this report other than your opinion.

[sabrina 1]

61. What facts are in the article?

Was this part of Venezuela's Land Reform? Who owned the Hotel, were they legitimately owners of property in Venezuela? Was it part of Venezuela's nationalization program, iow, putting Venezuela's resources, oil, tourism etc. under Venezuelan, rather than Foreign control? From that article, I learned nothing and do not view it as newsworthy considering the lack of information.

Property is often taken over by governments quite often and legally, here in the US eg. Governments, like OURS, usually claim it is for the common good. If Chavez is stealing the property for his own profit, that would be newsworthy. But that is not stated in the article. However, the way it is written, and by the reaction of the Chavez haters, that IS the implication. I don't respect any news organization that publishes material that can be used for biased reasons, by people like Breitbart eg.

AFP was probably handed a pool story and simply published it. That is usually the case with these articles. No jouralism involved, no effort to find out whether it is even newsworthy.

Chavez is a target of Global Capitalists because after decades of having free access to Venezuelas property at the expense of its people, he put a stop to their theivery. It's that simple. Venezueala was like a bank that was not guarded and they simply took whatever they wanted, leaving 80% of the population in poverty and illiterate. Chavez is changing that. He has reduced poverty by over 22% eg, he has reduced illiteracy by spending Venezuela's resources on the people who own them. He has provided free healthcare especially for the poorest Venezuelans and is building housing, Universities, schools, hospitals and developing Venezuela's tourism industry. He is creating jobs in doing all of this as well as improving the lives of the people.

The Western Media is not reliable on anything to do with S. America. Rightwingers especially, are not happy to see any success for the people of Venezuela. They still view that country's oil and other resources as their own. So they scour the news for a story like this and publish only some of the facts. What kind of jouranlism is that?

I wonder when we'll see a headline like this: "Obama Confiscates Property in NYC" from AFP? I'm sure somewhere in the US property has been confiscated over the past few months. Why is it our business what goes on in Venezuela when we don't know what's going on in this country?

Regarding this story, apparently it's not particularly newsworthy. There isn't much news about it as it appears the take-over is legal, and no, it was not to enrich Chavez.

http://www.svherald.com/content/2009/10/13/chavez-orders-hilton-hotel-purchase-venezuela

The Venezuela-based company Inversiones Pueblamar CA, listed as one of the hotel’s owners, did not immediately respond to a request for comment. Another company listed as an owner, Desarrollos MBK CA, could not be reached for comment.

Karla Visconti, a spokeswoman for Hilton Worldwide, the company that manages the hotel, said it is analyzing the move to determine how its interest in the hotel will be affected.

The hotel “remains a member of the Hilton system of hotels, and welcomes guests with the same level of service they have come to enjoy,” Visconti said in an emailed statement from Miami, Florida.

> snip

Chavez has carried out a series of nationalizations in recent years, buying up companies in sectors including telecommunications, electricity and construction. The government has also increased its ownership of hotels, although most in the country are still privately owned.

Another Hilton-managed hotel in Caracas changed its name to the Alba Caracas in 2007 after the government, which already owned the building, took over management when Hilton’s concession expired.

The country was devasted from nearly one hundred years of corruption and greed. I can easily see a new government in THIS country having to take some extraordinary steps to get back what belongs to the American people one day in the not too distant future. I for one, would like to see the mansions and yachts of those who stole this country's economy, impoverished the middle-class and then took even more from the people to bail themselves out, taken back and put to use for the common good.





.

[spanza]

74. The take over is legal for venezuelan legal system

I just hope they will still run the hotel and provide jobs to the people of Margarita.

But when you say "The country was devasted from nearly one hundred years of corruption and greed", I don't agree. Things are not that simple. If you read about our history, you'll understand Venezuela was a miracle of development for more than half of the period you're mentioning and the best performer in social indicators from the late 50's to the late 70's.

[EFerrari]

95. Here you go. The Ven government has been the majority stockholder

in this property since BEFORE Chavez took office. IOW, this property has needed propping up by the government for more than 10 years since a banking crisis they had in 1995.

Mayoría accionaria de Hotel Margarita Hilton pertenecía al Estado venezolano desde hace 14 años

La mayoría accionaria del Hotel Margarita Hilton estaba en manos desde hace 14 años del Estado venezolano y el contrato para la administración del mismo, concedida a la cadena hotelera estadounidense Hilton, venció el 13 de octubre pasado por lo que Caracas procedió a recuperar el 100 por ciento de las acciones del recinto, informó este miércoles el ministro venezolano de Turismo, Pedro Morejón.

"El Hilton Margarita es un hotel que está en proceso de intervención desde la crisis bancaria de 1995, desde ese momento el Estado tomó posesión de la mayoría de las acciones (...) Lo que estamos haciendo es tomar posesión del 100 por ciento de las acciones", agregó el funcionario.

Morejón destacó que durante el período en que el hotel fue administrado por la cadena Hilton se vendieron más de 13 mil acciones en sistemas de resorts o tiempo compartido, contratos que serán respetados tras el proceso de intervención y sus beneficiarios podrán seguir disfrutando de los espacios del hotel y de lo estipulado en el contrato.

http://www.telesurtv.net/noticias/secciones/nota/59597-NN/mayoria-accionaria-de-hotel-margarita-hilton-pertenecia-al-estado-venezolano-desde-hace-14-anos/

[Judi Lynn]

97. Thanks for posting this. VERY useful information. n/t

[EFerrari]

98. rabs found it. This is the way these stories always go.

Whatever crazy new thing Chavez gets accused of, a day or so later we find out it was just crazy, not crazy and true.

Damn Hugo Chavez for stealing a hotel -- from himself!

:rofl:

[Judi Lynn]

34. Clearly, healthy people don't go to Breitbart to look for articles to post at Democratic sites.n/t

[sabrina 1]

38. It's pretty shocking actually, to give any attention to that

individual on a Democratic board.

[Cha]

85. Seems to be okay when garbage is posted

about President Obama around here..gets a lot of suckers piling on.

[sabrina 1]

101. Two wrongs don't make a right. You might want to read

some of the posts in this thread that have corrected the wrong impression given by this OP now that the facts have been made available.

If it's your opinion that because some people say nasty things about Obama, that justifies lying about a leader of another country, and linking to one of the most vile individuals from the extreme far rightwing of the Republican Party, I completely disagree with you.

The best way to deal with people who are lying, is to present facts. That is what has happened in this thread without linking to people who have and should have zero credibility. That is if facts are what you care about and not just emotions.

[Bacchus39]

32. I stayed there once. It was a nice place. great pool with various levels and slides

yeah lets have businesses make nice things and then take it.

[ro1942]

33. Be safe Chavez, watch out for the empire

[JonQ]

35. Excellent, I'm sure that hotel was oppressing the

people of venezuela somehow.

I mean, he only acts to protect their interests, ergo this must be in their interest.

[timo]

37. that wacky hugo and his du fan club

GO HUGO!!! rock on with your awesome awesomeness, du has your back!!! SARCASM O RAMA!!!!

[RedCloud]

39. Hate to bust some freeper chops here, but here comes Venezuela's news

Not selected by shits for brains...

[RedCloud]

41. "Wicked" Chávez gives land back to the indigenous people

In your face freeper wannabes.
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4858

[high density]

53. So being against the seizure of private businesses is a "freeper wannabe" point of view?

I think your definition of "freeper wannabe" probably contains about 99% of the USA.

[tama]

71. Get of your high horse

All your property was stolen from indians. Give it back and fight with your native American brothers and then you can complain against evil governement without sounding hyppocrite.

[high density]

77. Okay... So USA is a nation of hypocrites... Why does that make Chavez's actions any better?

By the way I rent my living space, so they can take it back from my landlord if they want.

[tama]

79. It's right in front of you

Post 41: Chávez gives land back to the indigenous people

[high density]

80. I don't see the Hilton Hotel involved here

"Also during a special ceremony in Zulia state, Venezuelan Interior Relations and Justice Minister, Tarek el Aissami, handed over title deeds covering some 41,630 hectares of land to three Yukpa indigenous communities in the Sierra de Perija National Park. "

Chavez took the hotel to have the hotel, not to give it back to indigenous people.

[tama]

81. the topic of this subthread

and to answer your question what Chavez is doing that US isn't. Duh.

As for the hotel, that's been pretty much covered - that's just what all governements and states do, it's in the nature of every "evil governement". And any case, Paris Hilton will get more than she deserves... :)

[sabrina 1]

64. Excellent article

It is mind-boggling that anyone calling themselves a Democrat in this country would side with far right on what is going on in S.A. They are finally getting justice, people who for so long were the victims of greedy colonialism.

The situation came to a head in July 2008 when Yukpa indigenous communities occupied 14 large estates to demand legal title to their ancestral lands. Estate owner Alejandro Vargas and four others, armed with guns and machetes, responded by attempting to assassinate the Yukpa cacique (chief) Sabino Romero, who was leading the occupations, and beat and killed Romero's elderly 109-year-old father Jose Manuel Romero.

Then on August 6 hundreds of armed mercenaries, hired by large landowners, attacked the indigenous communities.

At the time Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez slammed what he described as the "ambiguous attitudes" of some government functionaries in dealing with the land demarcation process and ordered an investigation into the violent attacks.

"There should be no doubt: Between the large estate owners and the Indians, this government is with the Indians" Chavez said.

The overlords can no longer get away with killing anyone who stands up for their rights. They may still do it, but now they are held accountable.

This country, if it really did respect democracy and human rights, would by 100% behind the people of all thos S. American countries who are taking back what is rightfully theirs.

[tama]

70. Thanks for the link

And US is going to follow that example when?

[malaise]

116. ThanksRedCloud

Love it.

[RedCloud]

42. Chávez is still "wickedly" popular. Over 60%

Venezuelan Poll: Chavez Enjoys 62.4% Approval Rating

http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/4857

[RedCloud]

43. Learn Spanish. And see why you try to take an isolated incident and PRETEND no good ever happens the

http://www.abn.info.ve/

Arre, gringo, arre.

[WriteDown]

55. That was mean to say to Jud Lynni. nt

[marasinghe]

40. good.

no different from the 'eminent domain' ploy that bloomberg's city hall uses, or tries to - unsuccessfully - in New York City, for the benefit of Columbia U., NYU, CUNY & real estate tycoons of the ilk of the jets & nets owners; by throwing out poor & middle-class residents & small businesses from their generation-lapping locations. at least, hugo has reversed the protagonists and is spreading the wealth amongst the destitute; while using their own m.o. to stake the capitalist & corporate vampires right in the core of their being, the moneybags. Che' must be grinning from the grave.

:applause:

[Mudoria]

57. Always fun to see how fast the spin doctors arrive in a Hugo thread..

Baghdad Bob has nothing on these folks. You would almost think El Supremo had them on the payroll or something.

[sabrina 1]

118. Well, now that you've had your knee-jerk 'if it's Chavez it has to be bad'

moment, have you had time to go back and read some facts? I expect your programmed response to be along the lines of 'Chavez is your hero' or some other rightwingnut talking point. But some of us just like facts and we know this, for a fact, anything coming from the poisonous fingers of a lunatic rightwingnut like Breitbart, who is causing far more harm to this country than the object of your hatred, Chavez, who appears to be minding his country's business and not ours, badly needs to be more than double-checked.

You'd think that at least people on the so-called 'left' would not take at face value anything that comes from the MSM when it involves oil-rich countries that have not yet handed over their resources to our Global Capitalist Corporations. Looks like some have learned nothing from Iraq.

For the record, in case you'd rather keep your pre-conceived, rightwing propaganda-fed image of Chavez, the OP was not only mis-leading, it was blatant in its biased attempt to create a false impression of someone they will probably have to kill before he sells the country and the people he loves, down the river as their old rightwing dictator buddies in South America used to do. And that's why THEY hate him. But why do you?

[New Dawn]

58. Great news. BTW, the "sweet, innocent, oppressed" hotel magnates can cry me a river.

Fuck Breitbart and other right-wing propagandists.

[dharmamarx]

59. "stealing"

I always love it when people who are born on the winning side of colonialism start complaining about poor countries "stealing." The land you're physically sitting on was stolen from Native Americans; all of those nice consumer goods you got littering your house (from your clothing, to your computer, to the bananas in your kitchen) were cheaply produced in formerly colonized countries because the former colonial powers did not care about investing in those countries; they cared about investing where you live, instead. But when people in poor countries start demanding access to some of that capital that you've rolling around in your whole life, then you start whining about "stealing." Post-colonial Caribbean countries have been told by the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank that they need to attract foreign capital (i.e. all the capital that Europe built up during colonialism) by building up their tourist industry, but the vast majority of the tourist industry is owned by North American companies. Development through tourism has been a total disaster for the region in large part because the money flows right back up to North America.

[rabs]

66. You are right on the mark

Cross-posting from the Latin America forum:

----------------------------------------

Poked around and found this:

------------------------------------

The assets (of the hotel) will be held by the state tourism corporation Venetur, which reports to the Tourism Ministry, as part of an “urgent” effort to boost “the social development side of the tourism and hotel industries in Nueva Esparta state,” the Gazette said.

-------------------------

Ventur already runs several luxury hotels and its mission statement says it is to foments tourism as a strategic industry, to promote national and international tourism, and to include all social strata of Venezuela. (In other words to keep the money from tourism industry to benefit the Venezuelan people.)


Here are some of the luxury hotels already run by Ventur of the Tourism Ministry

http://www.venetur.gob.ve/index.php?val=ho

And welcome to DU :hi:

[sabrina 1]

67. Thank you for some facts. I am sure they will be ignored

by those who support colonialism and the theft of resources from indigenous people. They show up in every Chavez thread.

South America is changing and the capitalists are furious. They can no longer kill democratically elected leader as easily as they did in the past. Chavez was smart, he provided his formerly illiterate people with education. As one Venezuelan woman said with tears in her eyes 'I can think now, I am free to have an opinion and now I have responsibility to my country'. He didn't just educate the young, but the old too so long denied opportunity.

But it really is stunning to see so-called Democrats accept without question, anything published by Breitbart, one of the lowest scumbags from the far right, just because they viewed it as 'anti-Chavez'.

Of course Breitbart is anti-Chavez. That's one sure way to recognize rightwingnuts, they all hate Chavez because he cares more for the poor than the rich thieves who stole what was theirs. And shame on AFB for playing the game of publishing something like that and pretending it's news. Probably handed to them along with the rest of an excuse for a media that, thank god, we no longer have to rely on.

[high density]

78. So the Americans of 2009 are to blame for what happened to the Native Americans?

I cannot control what my dead ancestors did. What happened in America hundreds of years ago doesn't excuse what is going on in Venezuela today.

[DireStrike]

63. I don't get it. Why are people here angry at this?

Are you all a bunch of dyed-in-the-wool capitalists?

Something wrong with a country becoming more socialist/communist?

We also do this in the US. Usually to build an ugly shopping mall or something.

Yes, expropriation of private property. What the fuck ever. It is on Venezuelan land, subject to their law... and ideally owned by the people. The only way you could see it as a bad thing is if you had it in your head already that Chavez is a bad guy. It remains to be seen what he'll do with the power he is gathering. Or if he could possibly hold onto it without popular support.

[The Croquist]

91. Sign me up as a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist

Here is the issue. Property is property.

First of all there has been no price set for the hotel. It is to be "decided". That doesn't make it a deal. That makes it confiscation.

Second of all without property rights there is no investment and without investment there is no economic growth. Why would someone in their right mind invest in Venezuela when the government feels free to seize your property whenever it wants if your business is successful? The good news is if you are losing your shirt they will let you keep it.

I'll tell you what. Why don't you take your life savings and make a deposit in a Venezuelan bank? No doubt it's insured by the VDIC, backed by the full faith and credit of the Venezuelan government. Unfortunately the Venezuelan government can't be trusted by investors as this story once again shows. You can hate oil companies. You can hate Nestle, Cargill and Parmalat but the bottom line is that nobody trusts Venezuela and that includes it's friends. Do you really think that Russia is going to lend them money for their military sales? If so they are fools.

The US Supreme Court decision Kelo v. City of New London was a travesty but at least the owners of the property got paid a fair price. Hilton has no idea if they will ever see a dime.

"It is on Venezuelan land, subject to their law... and ideally owned by the people."

No it's not. Hilton bought the land. That makes it Hilton's land. Hilton built the hotel. That makes it Hilton's hotel. Hilton built the business. That makes it Hilton's business. Now the government steps in and seizes it. Let me know when you put your money in a Venezuelan bank.

Government regulation is fine but this is not government regulation.

"Something wrong with a country becoming more socialist/communist?"

Yes. Communism doesn't work.

[EFerrari]

96. Um, no they didn't. The Ven government has been majority stockholder

since before Chavez was in office.

So, it's not Hilton's land and it's not Hilton's hotel and it's not Hilton's business.

Do you think for a minute that Chavez would be attacked daily in our corporate media if what he was doing wasn't working? They're attacking him precisely because it is working.

[Judi Lynn]

99. The missing information really throws a whole different light on this matter.

They would do the world so much good if they spent far less time telling everyone their mangled opinion, and more time trying to learn what the truth is.

A loud, snotty opinion based totally on ignorance does no one any good whatsoever.

Thanks for persisting in getting to the truth, EFerrari.

[The Croquist]

105. You are correct about Venezuela being the majority owner

but that just means that some, not all of the land, building and business is Hilton's.

[EFerrari]

109. That means this enterprise was nationalized five years before Chavez.

You all seem to be much more upset about this than the other stockholders. They've already signed off.

[The Croquist]

120. I don't think I own any Hilton stock

unless it is a Fortune 500 company and then I've got it in an index fund.

[Judi Lynn]

107. Here's an AP article they FINALLY delivered which mentions this TRUTH you & rabs have discussed:

Venezuela begins takeover of Hilton-run hotel
Associated Press
2009-10-15 05:32 AM

President Hugo Chavez's government began taking over management of a Hilton-run hotel on Venezuela's Margarita Island on Wednesday.
Tourism Minister Pedro Morejon said a 20-year concession granted to the company has expired and the government "has taken legitimate control of an asset that belongs to all the people of Venezuela."

Chavez issued a decree last week ordering the "forced acquisition" of the Margarita Hilton & Suites and its marina, though news of the edict did not surface until Tuesday.

Morejon said the government has held majority ownership of the hotel since 1995, when a banking crisis forced many of the hotel's shareholders to sell their assets to the state.

It was not immediately clear what assets Hilton owns within the hotel complex, but the decree forces it to sell whatever it has. Officials have not said how much Venezuela will pay in compensation, or when.

Representatives for Hilton Worldwide did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Wednesday. A spokeswoman said Tuesday that the company was analyzing the move to determine how its interest in the hotel will be affected.

More:
&cate_rss=news_Business

[The Croquist]

119. Interesting. Maybe I'm wrong

"Tourism Minister Pedro Morejon said a 20-year concession granted to the company has expired and the government "has taken legitimate control of an asset that belongs to all the people of Venezuela."

I'll be interested in seeing what Hilton says about this.

[tama]

103. "Property is theft"

"Second of all without property rights there is no investment and without investment there is no economic growth."

That "economic growth" sure sounds like a religious (doomsday cult?) mantra. What do you actually mean by it? GDP growth? GDP is abstract measuring device that measures movement of money. What does that have to do with economy, Greek for 'householding', 'home management'?

Does economic growth - something obviously presumed obligatory for all economies, all households - mean that everybody should live in larger and fancier house, mansion, palace etc.? So if everybody lives in a palace, which is too big to clean and maintain for a single family, who does all the cleaning and maintaining jobs? Not to mention that with more and more of larger palaces, at some point there will be not enough building space on this planet and where will the food, fiber etc. come from?

So if it's "economic growth" that justifies "property rights", then the foundation does not look very solid.

[The Croquist]

104. Economic growth means better lives

"Does economic growth ... mean that everybody should live in larger and fancier house, mansion, palace etc.?" No it doesn't. Economic growth means more more doctors, teachers, engineers, retirees, longer lifespans, fewer sick kids, a lower rate of population growth and the ability to rail against economic growth from the comfort of a heated home on a computer that you were able to buy because your not one of the 90% of Americans who where once subsistence farmers.

As for "Property is theft" I couldn't disagree more. Property is the reward for working hard and succeeding (or being a member of the lucky sperm club). Taxation is needed to help others and support the government that can protect people from predatory businesses but if you refuse to reward people they won't bother to do work. "They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work" is an old Soviet proverb. As I said before, Communism doesn't work and this is Democratic Underground not Communism Underground.

[tama]

108. Depends

The way you describe economic growth, as satisfying basic needs (until they are satisfied and we can do other things besides growing for growth sake), sounds fine and is not inherent only to capitalism, such growing is natural just like child grows to adult and stops growing height. Today's global capitalism is not, however, producing such economic growth. Famine has been steadily increasing as well as other forms of poverty, while few stinking rich Wall Street banksters and their ilk get richer. Since 1979 the situation has resembled more a zero sum game than economic growth.

Better description of todays economic system ("realcapitalism" to avoid ideological purities when compered to some better "capitalism" if you like) is a giant Ponzi scheme. This system must grow exponentially like Ponzi scheme must grow, just to avoid the collapse of the system. Such growth is manic and unhealthy, self-destrusctive because all Ponzi schemes inevitably collapse and because this Ponzi scheme of globalized economic growth is destroying the carrying capacity of Earth that it is dependent from.

I'm not a communist. As for the slogan "property is theft" wikipedia explains http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Property_is_theft! :

"By "property," Proudhon referred to the Roman law concept of the sovereign right of property – the right of the proprietor to do with his property as he pleases, "to use and abuse," so long as in the end he submits to state-sanctioned title, and he contrasted the supposed right of property with the rights (which he considered valid) of liberty, equality, and security."

[The Croquist]

121. I'm not really a dyed-in-the-wool capitalist

and I'm sorry about the communist crack but I was once called a racist here for stating that the biggest problem in the world is population growth and I was waiting for the "go to Republican Underground" comment. I believe in government regulations but I also believe in rewarding people for their efforts. It's a fine line that needs to be drawn.

As to the "property is theft" comment, even after reading the Wiki you provided I still don't get it, especially the Marx quote. Maybe I'm dense but I just don't get it.

Capitalism has been the most successful economic system ever created. It needs to be held in check but it beats the crap out of it's alternatives.

[EFerrari]

112. That big farce, the Cold War, is over. n/t

[ProudDad]

65. Way to post right-wing bullshit...(n/t)

[tama]

87. I agree with Chavez bashers

No state should confiscate private property by any means. On the condition that it is in the very nature of states to confiscate (violently aka steal) what belongs to others. That is how states are born and only way to stop that evil practice is to disband all states, as of now. I'm OK with that. Of course disbanding states would mean that there were no more states and laws and governement and police and army to protect the ideology of (stolen and stealing) private property. Hip hoorray! :)

[Judi Lynn]

100. Do yourself the honor of learning the facts of this story.

Read EFerrari's ACCURATE information at post #95:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4102147#4103912d

The truth takes more energy, and more integrity to discover.

[tama]

102. Hey judy

Thanks for the remainder. But it totally misses the point, which is much more general, perhaps even philosophical. :)

[unkachuck]

92. "Venezuela Seizes a Landmark Hilton Hotel"

....and so what?....our government and corporations have been fuckin' Hugo around for years....maybe he's just trying to have a little fun?

[junior college]

106. Looks like he purchased this hotel fair and square

The blind hatred of Chavez and the propaganda against him is amazing in its volume and tenacity

[EFerrari]

110. It seems to be a compulsion. n/t

[The Croquist]

122. Before you say that "he purchased this hotel fair and square"

maybe you should ask the price. As far as I know it hasn't been set yet and Hilton hasn't agreed to it.

[redqueen]

111. LOL... suckers... got punked by the M$M *again*, did ya?

:rofl:

When will y'all ever learn?

[EFerrari]

113. . . .

[anonymous171]

114. If the "government" in Honduras did the same thing the western press would laud the decision.

Apparently, not all LA governments are equal

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

117. Another blow against the dowtrodden wealthy. Tsk. Tsk.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

[dysfunctional press]

124. venezuela is PURCHASING the hotel...

or rather the rest of it- they were already one of the major shareholders.