Have You Noticed That Libertarians Tend To Be People Who've Never Faced Real Hardships in Life?

[Yavin4]

They don't seem to have much real life experiences. They've never faced real poverty. I'm not talking about facing a bad period but you have rich parents that can bail you out. I'm talking not being able to pay the rent and looking at living on the street. They falsely believe that their "brilliance" will make them marketable forever, and that if there is failure in their lives, it's because of government interference.

Has anyone else noticed that?

[Mari333]

You mean the Ayn Randians?

yes.

[Brickbat]

1. Indeed -- I find it fascinating that every libertarian I've talked to seem to think that s/he's the

one who will end up on top. It's not even possible that someone bigger might come along and, you know, go all libertarian on their asses.

[Cassandra]

22. Sort of like the people who wish they lived in the Middle Ages...

because they are sure they would have been a king or duke, rather than a serf.

[Brickbat]

29. Hee! Exactly.

And people with past lives never remember being a nameless drudge.

[Dogmudgeon]

31. ... or the ones who will survive the Collapse of Civilization

And until recently, World War 3.

Of course, without that mean ol' Gummint keeping them down, they'll rise to the top of the (much smaller) heap. Just like cream.

--d!
So who in their right mind puts cream in a toilet?

[OneGrassRoot]

2. Now that I think about it....

My experience has been that most Libertarians I've met are men, with military experience and/or excellent outdoor survival skills. Society in general disturbs them.

Again, just my experience.

[NightWatcher]

3. my brother who now works for a defense contractor is THAT GUY

he went to private school, while I went to public school
he got a scholarship to go to a state university from the state education lottery fund
he went to work at another state university where he met his wife
they went to work at another state university with completely free rides and had jobs in the same university
she now works for the military as a civilian employee and he works as a federal defense contractor

BUT THEY CLAIM TO HATE THE socialist GOVERNMENT


that's not bootstraps boy, that's the government teet.

[thereismore]

4. A Libertarian I know has known poverty, but he thinks Jesus was a libertarian, so there. nt

[johnaries]

62. Jesus was a beggar. Some would consider him a con-man.

"I will bless your sick child, and he will soon be well. In exchange, may I have some wine?"

No wonder he never stayed in one town for long - and when he finally did they killed him. :evilgrin:

[chaska]

5. Libertarians tend to be people who've never faced thinking.

[Zoeisright]

6. Definitely have noticed that.

And they have no answers as to how to fund police, fire, water and waste systems, roads, NWS, NTSB, etc. etc. etc. They just look at you with a stupid expression when you ask about those issues.

[stray cat]

7. Not in my experience - usually they are people who have been tough and pulled it off

from difficult starting circumstances. Often times really smart, intelligent people who really know their facts and who have formed the opinion that the vast majority of people are unintelligent easily led fools

[Yavin4]

9. What Do You Mean By "Difficult Starting Circumstances"?

One man's "difficult" is another man's "luxury". To me "difficult" is being raised in foster care, not a working class home with two parents.

[JonQ]

10. Of course the term is variable

some orphan living on the streets of new delhi forced to resort to prostitution and theft to get by would probably feel that having lower income american foster parents would be a luxury.

[Yavin4]

14. Exactly.

My question to the poster who stated that his Libertarian friends had "difficult starting circumstances" was to get clarification on that term.

[JonQ]

19. I think it would have to be relative

so if we're referring to american libertarians then anyone coming from below average socioeconomic status for the US at the time would be considered having difficult circumstances, relative to everyone else in the US.

[HughBeaumont]

34. Quel Surprise yet again.

You may have some people fooled. Not me, Sonny Jim.

[rudy23]

8. The whole ideology is based on logical slight of hand, meant to justify being greedy and unfeeling.

Most of the libertarians I know are rich kids who are uber-defensive about their lot in life, and have found the perfect intellectual justification for their hyper-defensive ugliness in Ayn Rand.

[HughBeaumont]

35. That would be the two I know.

One works for Daddy and never has to worry about getting fired and the other is an outdoorsy gun-nut survivalist. Yeah.

[rucky]

11. Getting lucky & crediting it to hard work.

has been my experience with the libertarians. they're just so much better than all those sick people and welfare queens out there. even when they needed public assistance, they deserved it!

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

12. Seriously, what do you have against librarians?

What did they ever do to you?

:evilgrin:

[d_r]

13. I think they are naive

conservatives always seem to want to characterize liberals as naive, but I think libertarians are. They don't seem to have a concept about the darker sides of human nature. They believe that everything would be just hunky dorey if you left the markets unbridled by regulations - what we would have would be 1/2 of one percent incredibly wealthy, and 99.5% working 14 hours a day 7 days a week for enough money to buy a loaf of bread in the company store each week. The environment would be ruined completely, etc. They are naive.

[Initech]

15. I tend to feel that way about the serious freepers too.

[GoCubsGo]

16. I need glasses...

When I first read that, I thought it said "Librarians". I thought, "WTF? Librarians don't even get paid that much! Where is this coming from?" But, yeah, I've noticed. I often make the mistake of reading the cesspool otherwise known as the "comments" section of my local fishwrap. There is one that goes by the moniker "The Baron." That, right there, should tell you something about him. He thinks everyone who takes assistance from the government in any way, shape or form is "lazy", "greedy", "ignorant", "irresponsible", and "a parasite." He, like the rest of them, thinks he got his "wealth" through "hard work", when truth be told, he either inherited it, married into it, or lied/cheated/stole to get it. Or, they got a shitpile of tax breaks for their businesses at the expense of the rest of us. That latter point always goes right over their heads. The latest is that health care is a "privilege, not a right." Somebody pointed out to this asshole that when the plague comes, people like him will be dying right along with those who they look down at, whether or not they have that health insurance they feel is their privilege. It shut him up for a day or so, but he's right back at it today...

[kestrel91316]

17. Yes.

[merh]

18. Oh, they will tell you they have faced troubles and had struggles

But they lie.

They are so caught up in being "haves" and making sure no one gets their hands on what they have, the rest of the world be damned.

[DefenseLawyer]

20. Libertarians are Republicans that smoke dope or gun nuts.

One or the other. All of them.

[MineralMan]

21. I though Libertarians were all LINUX consultants.

Now, trying to get people to use LINUX is a hardship, certainly, isn't it?

Oh, yah...this build doesn't support that new scanner. Here..try this cool 16-color scanner from HP. It still works, too. Yah...you'll need a regular PS/2 mouse. I'm working on a driver for that wireless mouse you have. I should have an initial beta in about six months. This mouse will work. Oh, no...you don't need that wheel thing. It's a Microsoft plot to take over.

[Occulus]

33. Not to turn this into a debate, but they should be using Ubuntu.

I just copied a new DVD in a few mouse clicks. It wasn't that easy when I was using commercial packages, and I don't think all of them properly copy DVDs in Windows anymore anyway.

I doubt libertarians would use linux in the first place, though, because it represents the very antithesis of the free market.

[Nederland]

48. Ummm, Ubuntu IS Linux

I wonder how many other people that are using it don't realize it's Linux.

[Occulus]

70. I wasn't clear. Libertarians try to use Slackware and complain when they can't properly configure it

Then they have to rebuild their kernel for their five-year-old webcam and give up, saying, "see, I knew the free market could do it better".

I didn't mean to imply Ubuntu isn't linux :P

[Omnibus]

49. My brother certainly isn't a libertarian, but he IS a LINUX proselytizer.

Your description of them made me laugh out loud.

On topic, all the libertarians I've met are people who are blind to how they've benefited from the government and the public commons. They also think that somehow unregulated markets will work, despite the fact that it's NEVER worked before. You could have utter anarchy, and their excuse for its financial failure would be "too much regulation corrupted the process, so it's not a TRUE free market".

[wicket]

23. It's the "I got mine, fuck you!" mentality

n/t

[Echo In Light]

24. No. I have, however, known many professional class types who vote Dem & have never faced hard times

... and it shows in their views, priorities, beliefs, how they handle themselves, etc.

I've only known a few self described Libs; a tough as nails, ex con, biker who I can almost guarantee no anti-Libber here at DU would ever approach to name-call haha... whoah! ... and another, a co-worker of mine a few yrs back, younger kid, new to politics, but very bright and conscientious.

[sweetloukillbot]

25. Wow - you just described a Libertarian friend of mine to a "T"

Lost his job, moved in with his parents and has lived there unemployed for 2 years while writing a novel. Convinced he will be a millionaire once the stupid publishers realize what an awesome writer he is. And complains about people asking for government handouts.

[diane in sf]

26. If you think libertarianism is a good idea you should probably be living in Somalia.

Or as one of my friends said, if you think libertarianism is a great idea, try driving around in the Stanford Mall parking lot just before Christmas.

[daedalus_dude]

27. I guess it depends on how "Libertarian" they are.

Any way, its a broad brush, but still.

I believe in free education from preschool to university. I believe that healthcare should be free for all. I believe in strong unions. I believe in a strong social net. And I also believe in some degree of personal responsibility and that some people are just lazy turds.

I'd never vote for a politician that advertises themselves as Libertarian though. For me that is code for "servant of the monopolist".

edit: by "free" I mean "tax payer funded", not the "Libertarian" definition of free...

[la_chupa]

28. I've noticed that they are the first ones in line for unemployment

oh but that's different because they unlike everyone else on unemployment "earned it"
:smoke:

[Tsar_Bomba]

30. I think most upper middle class conservatives

fall into that category. Especially when they blame the government for their problems.

[Triana]

32. I can't say that's true. I know a woman who is a Libertarian and she's been through HELL

in life. Her husband just died with cancer. In hurricane Katrina, JUST BEFORE her first and only child was born they lost their house and EVERYTHING. They returned to New Orleans a year or so ago and NOW she's lost her husband.

I may not agree with her politics but she is basically a good person and my heart goes out to her. NO ONE deserves this. :cry:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

36. Not always

I know some Libertarians who are working class people living paycheck to paycheck.

[TheKentuckian]

37. A lot of them are hypocrites sucking up that gob'ment teat

Military, ex-mil, cops, contractors that can't wait to land that government bid, and a shit ton of "rugged individualists" that use medicaid for their kids and have a negative tax liability.

[Chulanowa]

38. I've never met a libertarian offline

In some ways, I don't think there are that many outside the internet. Anonymity allows them to revel in their dickish objectivist philosophy.

[paulk]

39. not in my experience

most of the ones I know are business owners who worked very hard to establish their businesses and resent government intrusion. Not that I agree with them, but you are painting with an awfully broad brush here.

[SharonAnn]

40. Yes, either that or they were bailed out and don't recognize they were assisted by others.

[Yavin4]

41. Success In Life Is A Product of Luck and Hard Work

Hard work alone does not equate to success, and just because you own business, that does not automatically mean that you work harder than someone who doesn't.

My problem with Libertarians is that they do not acknowledge that good fortune is a major contributor to their success as their hard work, and that's why govt is needed to help those that are not as fortunate.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

42. I had an old law professor who used to say

A liberal is a conservative who has spent a night in jail.

[LostInAnomie]

43. Libertarians and Randians are people that have created a mythology for themselves.

The mythology that they are quasi demi-gods that are smarter and simply better than the rest of the clods that make up society. They scorn the idea that luck or good fortune has played any role in their success because it would diminish their own self concept.

[ddeclue]

44. LIBERTARIAN = REPUBLICAN WHO WANTS TO SMOKE POT LEGALLY.

:rofl:

[Still Blue in PDX]

45. I only know one,

and she is a 55-year-old who lives in a house her daddy bought her.

She drives a car her sister's ex-boyfriend gave her.

She actually says she's a "green," but she loves Ron Paul.

She's my best friend, but I try not to think too hard or too often about some things that really, really bug me about her.

:banghead:

[Ardent15]

46. Yeah..they think that EVERYTHING that goes wrong is because of the government

And not because of other factors.

[anonymous171]

47. YES!

Anyone who thinks that the relationship between the worker and management is equal (as libertarians do) has never had to work for anyone.

[nadinbrzezinski]

50. When broad brushes... I have met libertarians who are

poor, and who have faced hardship... they just believe in this, period.

They also believe they are poor because of personal failings, but that is another story.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

51. I find the common thread among them is that the *think* they have had a hard life.

Every libertarian I know (to be fair, I only know a handful from school and 1 in my family) can spin you a sob story about how they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and therefore everybody else should too. Not a single one of them has really had a hard life though.

[G_j]

52. a Libertarian told me they didn't believe in national parks

is that true?
:wtf:

I hope he watched the Ken Burns series.
Try to imagine no national parks.

[d_r]

78. of course its true

[YoungAndOutraged]

53. Yep.

The ones I know are the type who act as if their shit is gold, that every word they say is a philosophical milestone, and any belief they have is obviously correct because they can't fathom that other people's beliefs or opinions even exist. They are the type who, when asked by a homeless person on the street if they have any change, will say "yes," and keep on walking, and then have the nerve to not understand why that behavior is unacceptable. In some ways they're worse than republicans. At the very least, most republicans can peacefully coexist with people who are exactly like them, but the libertarians I know just plain HATE anything that is "not self."

[tonysam]

56. Those people believe in a cult,

and people who believe in cults are brainwashed. I don't care how supposedly "intelligent" they are.

[pdxmom]

54. Most of the Libertarians I know are people formally known as

"Republicans". They were Republicans until Bush's last term. Funny how that works.

[datasuspect]

55. most of the libertarians i ever met still lived with their mothers

[RagAss]

64. BINGO !

[andym]

57. Although Ayn Rand herself did face hardship

One could even say that she was bitter that the soviets took away her middle class lifestyle as a teenager. She resented all forms of socialism and collectivism for the rest of her life.

"Rand was twelve at the time of the Russian revolution of 1917. Opposed to the Tsar, Rand's sympathies were with Alexander Kerensky. Rand's family life was disrupted by the rise of the Bolshevik party. Her father's pharmacy was confiscated by the Soviets, and the family temporarily fled to the Crimea. At sixteen, Rand returned with her family to Saint Petersburg."

From wikipedia.

[JVS]

67. Rand sponged a free university education off of Soviet Russia before coming to the US

[lolly]

58. Look at Greenspan

When everything collapsed--in large part due to his Randian lack of management--he seemed shocked that the great titans of finance he admired would do anything so short sighted, stupid, and disastrous.

[Kablooie]

59. One that I know has an easy blessed life but lives in constant paranoid fear.

He wailed when he heard that Obama would tax people who make over $200,000 like him.

He also complained that he didn't get overtime and thought some lesser employees might make more than him in a crunch period.

(No way) If they reach $100,000 they would be very lucky and have to work like a dog.

[armyowalgreens]

60. From my experience it's the privileged and the lucky who are libertarian.

[johnaries]

61. Yep. "I worked hard to get where I am". Without recognizing

any of the other circumstances - including pure dumb luck.

[SmileyRose]

63. The only libertarian I know has been through absolute Hell and voted for Obama.

Grew up in a trailer park, sexually abused, tried suicide 3 times by the time she was 25 - lost a leg and the sight in one eye during the last attempt. She's 57 now, works as a secretary for a non profit. She calls herself a libertarian because she thinks government should get out of our social lives and should be barred from borrowing money. As to how the money is spent, she's all behind spending it carefully in a way that benefits the vast majority of Americans rather than a narrow few at the top.

She voted for Barack Obama.


Edit to add, she, like nadinbrzezinski's example, believe all her difficulties are entirely of her own making. She also believes everyone makes a few mistakes and we all deserve however many chances we need.

[seabeyond]

65. i dont agree. generally they have faced tough times and made it thru, hence

why they think as they do

[vadawg]

74. i gotta say i agree on this point, id say that by the very fact that they got themselves through the

bad times has made them rely upon their own abilities and intelligence. Its something that was impressed upon all the kids growing up that in the end the only person who would get you through would be yourself.

[seabeyond]

77. yes. this is how i see it. nt

[ChoppinBroccoli]

66. Every Time I Talk To A Libertarian, I Use The Same Line

The true test of a Libertarian is when their house is on fire. Do they call the fire department, or do they grab a hose (and mind you, that hose better not be hooked up to a city water supply)?

[vadawg]

75. uh, wouldnt you think to do both, especially if you are paying for the service in taxes

now if you asked if they had the choice not to pay taxes for the fire service and mayby have to fight the fire yourself then it would make more sense..

[ChoppinBroccoli]

81. A True Libertarian Wouldn't Want The Government "Interference"

Libertarians like to blab on and on about how they hate Government "interference" in their lives. This would be the perfect opportunity to prove it. The Fire Dept. (aka "The Government") won't come help you unless you call them and ask for help. Does any Libertarian have enough strength in his own convictions to forego that phone call? You and I both know the answer to that one. Plus, you get the additional shot to the ribs of letting them know that a true Libertarian wouldn't use a hose hooked up to a city water supply either, because THAT'S "Government Interference" too.

See, Libertarianism is a nice theory, but in the real world, it falls flat on its face. This is just a small example of how, when the rubber meets the road, Libertarian ideals unravel faster than a cheap sweater.

[vadawg]

82. personally i dont have city water and if i didnt pay for the fire service i wouldnt call them

personally and my partner always laughs at me, he thinks its the funniest contradiction on the planet, even though i work for the government i am not a fan of government, i would rather never see or have them contact me outside of my work..

[budkin]

68. Oh my God my wife and I were just talking about this!

So so so true!!! Most are single or a couple that has no kids and are in great health. They don't want the government taking money from them for things "they don't need." We always tell them "just wait until you do."

[conflictgirl]

69. So far I haven't met any libertarians with dependents, which I think makes a difference.

Maybe they're intentionally choosing not to have dependents for a reason or maybe not having dependents enables their philosophy; I'm not sure.

[Joe the Liberal]

71. I've noticed that as well AND......

I've also noticed that Libertarians are for the most part dependent on others to get by and yet put up this rugged independent persona, sad really.

[sweetloukillbot]

72. My friend was like that...

Steadfastly refused to go on unemployment - but wasn't averse to me paying the rent or buying the food while he didn't get a job.

[OnionPatch]

73. Either that or they *think* they pulled themselves up from tremendous hardship.

Some of them I met actually did face hardship and actually were able to pull themselves out. But every one of them had a little help from their families and just plain old dumb luck. They don't stop and think; what if they didn't have that family? What if they had come down with some sort of illness that stopped them from working? What if they had been a different color/orientation/gender and the boss at their bootstrap job wouldn't have hired them or given them that promotion? Because they were lucky and able to make it, they believe everyone can. They're unable to see beyond their own experience.

[dugaresa]

76. i have to spend all of next week with an Ayn Randian so this thread is only depressing me

he is a business associate who is not to bright. I am being brought into negotiations to prevent him from hurting himself.

but I will have to endure a 2 hour drive with this dipshit and listen to his libertarian drivel.

it drives me mad.

[ensho]

79. you are talking baloney

nt

[Leftist Agitator]

80. I consider the Libertarian stance on social issues identical my own.

However, their economic beliefs and veneration of Randian "self-reliance" is abject idiocy.

[bvar22]

83. Ayn Rand wrote FICTION !

A "Libertarian" is an comfortable, arrogant asshole just one catastrophic illness away from a political awakening.

[Rude Dog]

84. Every time.

As much as some of the losertarian-worshippers around here might not believe it, this is the cold, hard truth of it: all but a very, very few of them are spoiled brats who think life is supposed to reshape around their wants. They're all ego and mouth, no brain.

[NNN0LHI]

85. The Librarians I remember from school were some of the nicest ladies I knew

Oh, wait a minute ...

Don