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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:36 AM Original message |
So, American Left. Have you swung Right? |
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Fumesucker (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:39 AM Response to Original message |
1. Some that weren't ever really left to start with have gone back to where they are most comfortable. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:44 AM Response to Original message |
2. This site has certainly lurched hard to the right this past couple of years, |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:00 AM Response to Reply #2 |
19. Hard left and hard right meet at the end of the circle |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:23 AM Response to Reply #19 |
26. I don't think so. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:55 AM Response to Reply #26 |
82. No, it doesn't. But those leaning rightward need others to reinforce their conditioned belief system |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:54 AM Response to Reply #19 |
48. Yeah? How? |
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Warpy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:52 AM Response to Original message |
3. Sensible Republicans no longer have a party |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:06 AM Response to Reply #3 |
7. Nail, head, hit |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:30 AM Response to Reply #3 |
13. I wondered about that. |
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geckosfeet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:54 AM Response to Original message |
4. The right is simply making moire noise. They are squealing like stuck pigs. |
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Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:56 AM Response to Original message |
5. It's called "Centrism" |
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Mari333 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:59 AM Response to Original message |
6. I never thought Id see so many apologists for Obama on here |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:05 AM Response to Reply #6 |
35. I've a nasty feeling that many of them |
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timtom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 07:22 AM Response to Reply #6 |
85. Oy, indeed! |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:09 AM Response to Original message |
8. The far Trotskyite (WSWS) left is extremely right wing |
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Orwellian_Ghost (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:11 AM Response to Reply #8 |
9. Yawn |
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HamdenRice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:21 AM Response to Reply #9 |
12. Any evidence to contradict this? |
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leftstreet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:35 PM Response to Reply #9 |
65. LOL +1 |
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Democracyinkind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:13 AM Response to Original message |
10. The dilemma of power. To be a team player, or to have principles. |
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Bluenorthwest (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:15 AM Response to Original message |
11. Half of DU speaks of the left with contempt |
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Tigress DEM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:37 AM Response to Reply #11 |
41. DU has ALWAYS been a herd of CATS with a bunch of lurking RW Trolls. |
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timtom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 07:28 AM Response to Reply #11 |
86. Boy. Am I glad you raised the "religionist" issue. |
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OHdem10 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:40 AM Response to Original message |
14. May I quibble a bit with some of your assumptions. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:59 AM Response to Reply #14 |
17. Yes its unfettered capitalism I was talking about. |
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Prism (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:49 AM Response to Original message |
15. Yesterday was a seriously deranged in one respect |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:05 AM Response to Reply #15 |
22. Cynicism is necessay, I think, but beyond a point it becomes a crippling, terminal condition. |
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Prism (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:37 AM Response to Reply #22 |
28. I think there has been less perceived relief and that drives things |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:40 AM Response to Reply #28 |
29. No rambling in there at all, |
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enigmatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #28 |
55. Great post |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:27 AM Response to Reply #15 |
27. You make some good points. |
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Prism (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:05 AM Response to Reply #27 |
34. Similar thoughts here |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:08 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. That's right. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:48 AM Response to Reply #34 |
44. Absolutely. What does the carpenter gain if he sells his tools to buy some wood? |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:48 PM Response to Reply #15 |
58. Politics is war. War requires people and organizations to do unsavory things |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:54 AM Response to Original message |
16. First of all, there is no such thing as an "American Left". Not since the 1930s. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:01 AM Response to Reply #16 |
20. This is an extremely disturbing observation |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:15 AM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Yet, it explains much, yes? |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:02 AM Response to Reply #23 |
33. So. What should be done? |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:57 AM Response to Reply #16 |
49. This is exactly the BS attempt to redefine "left" and "right" I'm talking about. |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:29 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. I'm old fashioned. I see a clear distinction between social liberalism and economic leftism. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #52 |
54. Economic Leftism does not necessarily mean socialist or Marxist. |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:10 PM Response to Reply #54 |
60. I didn't say it did. My point is that social liberalism does not equal economic leftism. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:29 PM Response to Reply #60 |
61. Most people don't even know there's a distinction between the social and economic "lefts." |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:31 PM Response to Reply #61 |
62. EXACTLY. To them, being a lefitst is a "lifestyle" nt |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:34 PM Response to Reply #62 |
64. But the very thought that capitalism might not be a 1000% positive force |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 07:12 PM Response to Reply #60 |
69. I don't like the simple left-right dichotomy. Things are more complex than that. |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 07:57 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. I completely agree with you that things are much more complex. |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:03 PM Response to Reply #72 |
74. IMO the definitions of "Socialism" and "Capitalism" have been stretched so much that the terms... |
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stray cat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:00 AM Response to Original message |
18. Full circle on the left ends up with the right wing |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:02 AM Response to Reply #18 |
21. Describe this process, please. |
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scarletwoman (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:20 AM Response to Reply #21 |
24. It's a favorite assertion of partisans who will not countenance any true Leftist criticism |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:42 AM Response to Reply #24 |
31. So it really is just a weird short-cut? |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 07:02 AM Response to Reply #31 |
83. It's psychological projection, which rightward leaning types often rely on |
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Democracyinkind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:41 AM Response to Reply #21 |
30. " Les extremes se touchent " the french say, and they are right. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:52 AM Response to Reply #21 |
32. It's a way for people who have no convictions to claim moral superiority to those who do. |
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LWolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 10:22 AM Response to Original message |
25. I have not. |
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jotsy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:16 AM Response to Original message |
37. An interesting discussion, but I've had enough of left and right, can't we just move forward? |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:22 AM Response to Reply #37 |
39. "A viable future for a public that's valued can't run effectively if the intent of its design - |
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jotsy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:25 AM Response to Reply #39 |
40. Principia? |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:47 AM Response to Reply #40 |
43. :D It's an archaic term. |
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asdjrocky (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:19 AM Response to Original message |
38. I feel DU is a far different place than it was when I joined a couple of years ago. |
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QC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:38 AM Response to Reply #38 |
42. I joined not long after this site opened, in 2001, and I miss that DU terribly. |
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KG (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 07:30 PM Response to Reply #42 |
71. +infinity |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:49 AM Response to Original message |
45. Many self-proclaimed liberals are just as misogynistic as the Freepers. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:52 AM Response to Reply #45 |
46. Those threads were like a bucket of cold water in the face. |
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Mari333 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 11:52 AM Response to Reply #45 |
47. and homophobic. |
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hansberrym (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:19 PM Response to Original message |
50. No, the left/right political model fails in many ways, there is less difference between neocon |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:27 PM Response to Original message |
51. Just becacuse you support leftist policies does not mean that you have to adopt certain batshit lw |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:41 PM Response to Reply #51 |
56. Are y ou asserting that a political ideology can be divorced from the moral code of its supporters? |
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Xicano (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:35 PM Response to Original message |
53. Thank you Zix |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:53 AM Response to Reply #53 |
81. Thank you. Being new, I'm learning a lot fom this thread. |
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blindpig (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:45 PM Response to Original message |
57. There is no left. |
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treestar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 12:50 PM Response to Original message |
59. Left wing men can still be sexist |
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Unvanguard (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 01:33 PM Response to Original message |
63. Sounds like "good old days" reminiscing to me. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:26 AM Response to Reply #63 |
76. It's possible that I'm conflating my own experience of the UK left |
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earth mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 03:14 PM Response to Original message |
66. It's not your imagination. DU has been pulled way to the right. War is Peace now but |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 04:01 PM Response to Reply #66 |
67. Anti-war =/= pro-peace |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:27 AM Response to Reply #67 |
77. Maybe you should try being just a LITTLE bit less clever... |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 09:05 PM Response to Reply #66 |
75. You are confusing opposition to the Iraq war with support for Pacifist ideology. |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:47 AM Response to Reply #75 |
79. ? I don't think earth mom's talking about pacifism. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 07:10 AM Response to Reply #66 |
84. Agreed, Earth Mom. Last week had some of the most belligerent, calling-others-out threads I've read |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 07:30 AM Response to Reply #84 |
87. That last sentence is accurate. |
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earth mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #84 |
89. Has DU been taken over by freepers or DINOS who masquerade as dems/progressives? |
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Geek_Girl (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 04:07 PM Response to Original message |
68. Personally I think my views have gone more to the left |
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sweetloukillbot (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 08:00 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. I always thought of my self as pretty left-wing... |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:51 AM Response to Reply #73 |
80. I remember your approach being denigrated as "salami slice" politics by some old friends of mine. |
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Blue_In_AK (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Oct-10-09 07:24 PM Response to Original message |
70. I'm as far left as I've ever been, |
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old mark (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 06:41 AM Response to Original message |
78. There were a lot of "moderates" in both parties, now they are mostly Democrats |
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bridgit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 11:09 AM Response to Original message |
88. 'Going through our wound, we can allow ourselves to be re-created by the wound' |
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Zix (881 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Oct-11-09 02:14 PM Response to Reply #88 |
90. "battered lefty syndrome". |
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