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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:28 PM Original message |
The state opt out for public option is wrong. Dean is dead wrong to support it. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:31 PM Response to Original message |
1. All our donations and efforts from 2003 on till November 2008 |
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xultar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:31 PM Response to Original message |
2. Actually he isn't. I think in the end states opting out will make the pubs look like shit. |
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Altoid_Cyclist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #2 |
15. That's what I was thinking also. |
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MajorChode (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:34 PM Response to Reply #2 |
182. That's why it's a brilliant plan |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:33 PM Response to Original message |
3. Gets the foot in the door... and puts pressure on redstaters to oust their idealogues |
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ddeclue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:41 PM Response to Reply #3 |
17. Dean is wrong and people who think he's right don't understand state level politics or how lobbyists |
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iceman66 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #3 |
84. No he isn't. |
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DireStrike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:59 PM Response to Reply #84 |
201. Didn't think of that. |
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Tansy_Gold (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 08:02 PM Response to Reply #84 |
202. Excellent, excellent point |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:29 PM Response to Reply #3 |
105. What happens when Pres. Jeb Bush closes the door on that foot in 2013 before it can get going? |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:49 PM Response to Reply #105 |
121. A) Obama will win in 2012... quite easily and B)...... |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:11 PM Response to Reply #121 |
147. They tried like hell to get at Social Security, and they'll do it again. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:36 PM Response to Original message |
4. This Is, Ma'am, In My View, An Excellent Idea |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:37 PM Response to Reply #4 |
8. States like mine will NOT do anything but harm the people. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:41 PM Response to Reply #8 |
16. Then A Number Of Local Politicians, Ma'am, Would Soon Be Forced Into Retirement |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:42 PM Response to Reply #16 |
21. Not here, they would not. People don't know or understand or care. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. Enough Would Learn, Ma'am |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #24 |
62. I problem I see, Magistrate, is that the same fear campaigns we have all just witnessed |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #62 |
73. Doubtless The Enemy Will Struggle, Ma'am |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:30 PM Response to Reply #73 |
106. Magistrate, have you ever read Barbara Tuchman's "March of Folly"? |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:37 PM Response to Reply #106 |
113. Yes, Ma'am: It is An Excellent Work |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:53 PM Response to Reply #113 |
124. If this comes to pass, I certainly hope that your prognosis is right. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:02 PM Response to Reply #124 |
129. Your Story, Ma'am, is A Hopeful One |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #129 |
137. Perhaps I should add that I grew up in Texas and if that state could have opted out of Medicare |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:09 PM Response to Reply #62 |
133. but polling shiows the fear campaigns didn't do much to sway numbers. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:17 PM Response to Reply #133 |
138. I hope and pray that this would also be the outcome were there to be an opt out measure. |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:18 PM Response to Reply #138 |
139. i believe any state that opts out will remain opted out only until the next election cycle. |
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SWr (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:44 PM Response to Reply #24 |
190. I get it |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:55 PM Response to Reply #190 |
195. The Higher Costs, Sir, Would Owe To Republican State Governments, In This Case |
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SWr (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 08:05 PM Response to Reply #195 |
203. your a foolish gambler |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:09 PM Response to Reply #203 |
209. Fancy a Small Wager, Sir? |
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Sebastian Doyle (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #21 |
29. A lot of those people may well change their minds when they're faced with huge medical bills |
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joeycola (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #21 |
37. I think it is close to the analogy of Medicaid. Poor states can not |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:00 PM Response to Reply #16 |
67. You are dreaming. Glenbeckistan will not fold. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:06 PM Response to Reply #67 |
75. Its Population, Sir, Will Be Revealed As Much Smaller Than Presently Credited, However.... |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:08 PM Response to Reply #75 |
79. 10-20 years?? 30-40???? |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #79 |
92. Do You Find, Sir, Shrieking Till Your Cheeks Go Blue To Be Of Help In These Things? |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #92 |
98. 20years? 30? 50? How many years before your "gambit" pays off? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:35 PM Response to Reply #92 |
110. I am shrieking also Magistrate, sir. We all should be doing so. |
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Joe Fields (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:49 PM Response to Reply #92 |
170. I have little faith, but I do see your point. |
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Tansy_Gold (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:58 PM Original message |
"How many deaths will it take 'til he knows. . . . . " |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:21 PM Response to Original message |
178. Let Us Examine, Ma'am, The Full Implications Of Our Positions, Then |
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Tansy_Gold (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:39 PM Response to Reply #178 |
186. The problem, Mag, is that we didn't even try it |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #186 |
193. Then We Are Really in Agreement, Ma'am |
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Tansy_Gold (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 08:51 PM Response to Reply #193 |
206. No, we aren't in agreement. At least not on the end point |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:06 PM Response to Reply #206 |
208. Nothing Currently Known, Ma'am, Would Affect Either Medicare Or Medicaid |
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Tansy_Gold (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:46 PM Response to Reply #208 |
212. I'm so glad you're so willing to sacrifice so many of your fellow |
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kjackson227 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #8 |
82. Yep, I can relate :( |
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DevonRex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM Original message |
Thank you for this reply. It's so obvious, yet few seem to have |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:55 PM Response to Original message |
54. I did. I see it as not using the power of a majority. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #4 |
60. And how much more "watering down" are you willing to tolerate??? |
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CrownPrinceBandar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #4 |
93. I think you propose a dangerous game, sir............. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:31 PM Response to Reply #93 |
107. It Is A Dangerous Game, Your Grace, There Is No Question Of That |
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CrownPrinceBandar (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:49 PM Response to Reply #107 |
120. You are correct sir. It is only speculation at this point....... |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:59 PM Response to Reply #120 |
127. It Seems, Your Grace, We Are More In Agreement Than Otherwise |
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mod mom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #4 |
115. but don't you think the very ill & medically needy will move to a state that offers |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:48 PM Response to Reply #115 |
119. Mobility, Ma'am, Is Not So Great As is Often Imagined |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:09 PM Response to Reply #115 |
156. Some states will buy them 1 way bus tickets. |
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SWr (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:40 PM Response to Reply #115 |
187. With what money?!!!! You think everyone has the means to just pack up and move? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:36 PM Response to Original message |
5. "What bothers me is the morality of it," he said. I say then why vote for it? |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. Because it will still be much better than what is available now. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #10 |
13. Well, Dawgs, call me a dummy. Everyone else does it. States will opt out. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #13 |
57. Then we will have to disagree. Even republicans aren't dumb enough to try and opt it, IMO. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #57 |
68. No. |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:37 PM Response to Original message |
6. Suckers. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:37 PM Response to Original message |
7. Dean is right, and not one state will opt-out of it. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:38 PM Response to Reply #7 |
9. Not better than nothing. No STRONG national public option, no bill! |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:40 PM Response to Reply #9 |
14. WHAATTTTT??? |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #14 |
28. Yup. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:51 PM Response to Reply #28 |
41. Did you actually read the article, or are you just stupid? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #41 |
44. You are calling all of us names today. Does it make you feel better? |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:58 PM Response to Reply #44 |
61. It was a question, not a statement. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:53 PM Response to Reply #41 |
48. Do you work for UHC, or BC/BS ??? |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #28 |
49. As I read it the plan is for a NATIONAL public option |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #49 |
55. Opt out, making it even LESS universal. Fuck no. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #49 |
63. Why are trying to use logic? Don't you know that DUer's only respond with emotion. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #49 |
72. Well, look what happened to Prop 8 in blue California! |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:06 PM Response to Reply #72 |
77. But..but... we must give the big "O" SOME sort of bill. |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #77 |
101. I don't want to believe that Obama would do that. If anything, I think he tries very hard |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:27 PM Response to Reply #101 |
104. I'd rather not believe it either....but. |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:14 PM Response to Reply #77 |
136. christ teh bitterness is strong in this one jim. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:36 PM Response to Reply #72 |
112. Well, we have no reason to expect any issue to be presented factually |
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dionysus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:12 PM Response to Reply #14 |
134. never mind the fail junkies. to them if this passes it will be "worthless" because it isn't |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:24 PM Response to Reply #134 |
142. And some, like you, have no goal posts. |
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SPedigrees (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:22 PM Original message |
You've heard of biting off your nose to spite your face, I presume. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:39 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. That is not a realistic statement. Yes, states will opt out. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:43 PM Response to Reply #11 |
22. States will not opt out, and we don't have a majority. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #22 |
27. Hey, fine with me. Our wallets and credit cards are looking really good. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:47 PM Response to Reply #22 |
33. Mandated insurance without a strong public option IS worse than what wwe have now. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #22 |
36. Can you count??? a majority of 100 is 51. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #36 |
45. Right, and we don't have 51 progressives. Can you count? |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #45 |
53. again, which insurance giant do you work for??? |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:00 PM Response to Reply #53 |
66. That doesn't even make any sense. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:03 PM Response to Reply #66 |
71. They are desperate for any "watering down" of a strong public option. |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #11 |
26. Some may opt out, probably not many |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #26 |
30. Exactly, and this is coming from someone that lives in a very red state (Georgia). |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:47 PM Response to Reply #26 |
34. Crist is not going to be governor. |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #34 |
46. Right, forgot about that |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:52 PM Response to Reply #26 |
43. If we just let them fuck us a little longer, things might get better. |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:56 PM Response to Reply #43 |
56. Do you know of the magic wand |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:59 PM Response to Reply #56 |
64. YOU bend over and take it. I will not. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #64 |
85. The Prevalence Of This Figure Of Speech, Sir, Is Fascinating.... |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:13 PM Response to Reply #85 |
89. Do you have a point? |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:42 PM Response to Reply #89 |
116. I think the point was that you are offensive |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:26 PM Response to Reply #116 |
144. Wasn't asking you. |
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Jax (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #85 |
96. Disgusting |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #11 |
50. Just like they opted out of the stimulus? |
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SPedigrees (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #50 |
103. Excellent analogy! nt |
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undeterred (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:39 PM Response to Original message |
12. I think my state could do it better than a Federal public option. |
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Selatius (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:41 PM Response to Original message |
18. Mississippi chiming in here. |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:47 PM Response to Reply #18 |
32. Agree n/t |
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DevonRex (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #18 |
51. Exactly. Thank you . nt |
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closeupready (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:10 PM Response to Reply #18 |
80. They are going to continue raising rates wherever they can - why wouldn't they? |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:13 PM Response to Reply #18 |
88. Your argument makes sense. But we are not dealing with people who are rational. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:41 PM Response to Original message |
19. All of a sudden people defend Dean when he is wrong... |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:45 PM Response to Reply #19 |
25. Dean is wrong because you say so? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:46 PM Response to Reply #25 |
31. He said it is morally wrong but would vote for it. That is VERY wrong. |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:49 PM Response to Reply #31 |
38. Yup, as WRONG as it gets. |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:48 PM Response to Reply #19 |
35. madfloridian saying Dean is wrong does not mean that Dean is wrong.... |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:54 PM Response to Reply #35 |
52. Seems that passion is overriding logic for some. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #52 |
59. It is called righteous anger. I am getting off all Dem calling lists. |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:01 PM Response to Reply #59 |
69. Maybe just move to a reliably blue state? |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:16 PM Response to Reply #59 |
90. Fabulous option. |
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Generator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:48 PM Response to Reply #90 |
191. Yep the real "public option" |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:57 PM Response to Reply #35 |
58. Yep! n/t |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:22 PM Response to Reply #35 |
97. I want to believe this but I'm just envisioning the blitz of advertising before a red state |
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WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:42 PM Response to Original message |
20. I agree - an opt-out is morally indefensible |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:44 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. Right. Dean said it was morally wrong, but he would vote for it. |
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Rosco T. (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:06 PM Response to Reply #20 |
76. Which is PRECISELY why it needs to be on the table. |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:12 PM Response to Reply #76 |
87. +10000.... The reactionaries who won't use their higher brain function don't get it... |
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WildEyedLiberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:04 PM Response to Reply #87 |
130. Wow, fuck you. I disagree with playing chess with people's lives so you personally attack me? |
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SWr (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:53 PM Response to Reply #130 |
192. Someone GETS IT |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:07 PM Response to Reply #87 |
146. Love the pic! nt |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:00 PM Response to Reply #87 |
207. I have been called dumb and dumber, now I am a reactionary. |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:49 PM Response to Original message |
39. Perhaps it will drive Conservatives to vote Democratic...... |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:51 PM Response to Reply #39 |
42. Exactly.... Ironically, the "free market" of ideas will win out |
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and-justice-for-all (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:51 PM Response to Original message |
40. "state opt out for public option"??! FAIL..nt |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:53 PM Response to Original message |
47. If the alternative is no public option, then I think the state option is good |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 01:59 PM Response to Original message |
65. I like it better than no public option or an opt in plan |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:02 PM Response to Original message |
70. Please note how we dissenters are said not to "understand". |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:07 PM Response to Reply #70 |
78. Very simple reverse-psychology, for very simple Americans... |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #70 |
81. STFU and get in line, the "chess" game is almost over, donchyaknow. |
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scheming daemons (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Reply #70 |
83. VOTE WITH YOUR FEET... move out of Florida... take your dollars elsewhere |
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Altoid_Cyclist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:20 PM Response to Reply #70 |
94. I touched on the subject with post #15, but I wanted to add one thing. |
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SPedigrees (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:24 PM Response to Reply #94 |
100. And if you have NO PLAN, think how many more will die. nt |
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Altoid_Cyclist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:45 PM Response to Reply #100 |
118. I agree on that point. |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:01 PM Response to Reply #118 |
128. True, the debate was handled badly from the get go. However, |
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Altoid_Cyclist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:22 PM Response to Reply #128 |
140. The signs lately are more encouraging which is one of the few bright spots in this debate so far. |
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Dawgs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:13 PM Response to Reply #94 |
135. That's why everyone is against it. But not passing a bill because of it causes more death. |
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Altoid_Cyclist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:43 PM Response to Reply #135 |
145. That's my point. I'm not saying that I want it to be all or nothing. |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:30 PM Response to Reply #70 |
168. THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU OR ANY LIBERALS IN RED STATES |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:31 PM Response to Reply #168 |
169. Yes, it is about me. |
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WyLoochka (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:06 PM Response to Original message |
74. My state is about the reddest of the red |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:11 PM Response to Original message |
86. "I would like to see that come out of the Senate because it is a real public plan," |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:18 PM Response to Original message |
91. If the red states op out they could face consequences |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:26 PM Response to Reply #91 |
102. What kind of consequences is Jindal paying for refusing badly needed stimulus money? |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:36 PM Response to Reply #102 |
111. Sadly, I think you are right. nt |
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Inuca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:51 PM Response to Reply #102 |
122. He DID accept stimuls money |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:56 PM Response to Reply #102 |
125. Jindal talks a lot of shit, but Lousiana is taking stimulus funds: |
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nadinbrzezinski (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:26 PM Response to Reply #102 |
143. Have we had elections in the last year or so? |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:15 PM Response to Reply #143 |
148. We have approval ratings--Jindal is unfazed. Also, which liberals would organize to vote him out? |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:21 PM Response to Original message |
95. I think the "opt out" proposal has merit |
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CTyankee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:44 PM Response to Reply #95 |
117. I would agree that your option E does gain us a lot of ground. |
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The Magistrate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:05 PM Response to Reply #95 |
131. An Excellent Analysis, Sir! |
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laughingliberal (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:23 PM Response to Reply #95 |
141. Love the way you laid it out. This is how I see it, also |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:23 PM Response to Reply #95 |
158. Why do we have to give in like this? |
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Tom Rinaldo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:35 PM Response to Reply #158 |
161. I really hope we don't have to Mad, I'm with you on that |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:03 PM Response to Reply #161 |
164. We will pay for it in 2010. They won't blame the GOP, trust me. |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:23 PM Response to Original message |
99. Why would a GOP pol hesitate to opt out? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:32 PM Response to Original message |
108. Our state opted out of the unemployment stimulus for extended payments. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:40 PM Response to Reply #108 |
114. This is Florida's stimulus site |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:52 PM Response to Reply #114 |
123. I will look up the info when I get back home. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:20 PM Response to Reply #114 |
151. This link... |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:27 PM Response to Reply #151 |
153. That's a different issue from them opting out. That's poor leadership. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:31 PM Response to Reply #153 |
154. What I posted IS that they opted out of unemployment extended stimulus.... |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:24 PM Response to Reply #154 |
159. The situation is changing, competition is good |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:00 PM Response to Reply #159 |
163. So now you are defending Crist and FL Republicans. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:49 PM Response to Reply #163 |
171. WTF? n/t |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:55 PM Response to Reply #171 |
172. Exactly my point. Why are you making a case for them? |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:17 PM Response to Reply #108 |
149. The implied retort to that is "F*ck Florida." That's what I don't like about this plan. |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:33 PM Response to Original message |
109. Comparison to Medicaid |
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Odin2005 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 02:58 PM Response to Original message |
126. No, it's the opposite. Pukes that decide to opt out will be thrown out of office. |
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rudy23 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:33 PM Response to Reply #126 |
160. By whom? Their teabagger constituents who reward their anti-government rhetoric? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:20 PM Response to Reply #160 |
165. Exactly my point. They can opt-out and suffer nothing from it. |
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spaten (19 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 03:08 PM Response to Original message |
132. Will mandates be opt-out? |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:18 PM Response to Original message |
150. (shrug) Red states have whined for "states' rights" for a hundred years. Now they might get them. |
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moondust (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:22 PM Response to Original message |
152. I would anticipate a mass migration. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
155. Why does our party feel the need to do this? Fear of the right wing? |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:15 PM Response to Reply #155 |
157. Trying to find a way to spoon feed us this already(before this proposal) crappy reform. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:58 PM Response to Reply #157 |
173. Read the post by Time for Change. All groups support the public option |
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MNDemNY (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:29 PM Response to Reply #173 |
180. Many support ANY bill that Obama can sign and claim a win. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 05:38 PM Response to Original message |
162. Rabid repubs in blue state get a public option |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:21 PM Response to Original message |
166. Hmm. I get nothing because of how these people vote vs. they get nothing because of how they vote |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 06:22 PM Response to Original message |
167. Too bad. Working class conservatives need to feel the consequences of voting republican. |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:01 PM Response to Reply #167 |
174. Alot of them also voted for the democrats blocking real health care reform in blue states. |
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anonymous171 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:03 PM Response to Reply #174 |
175. Same thing. nt |
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ipaint (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:22 PM Response to Reply #175 |
179. So folks who voted for baucus don't get the public option either? |
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madville (743 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:13 PM Response to Original message |
176. Maybe Dean knows something we don't |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:16 PM Response to Original message |
177. We will accept anything the party leaders decide to give us... |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:31 PM Response to Original message |
181. Down down ever downward. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:36 PM Response to Reply #181 |
184. And now down to 4. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:54 PM Response to Reply #184 |
194. Down to 2. Very clear message where DU stands. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 08:23 PM Response to Reply #194 |
204. Down to 1, let's try for 0 or |
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Kurt_and_Hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:34 PM Response to Original message |
183. The subsidies would be unaffected. The PO would be, what? 5-10% cheaper? |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:38 PM Response to Reply #183 |
185. Then this would enrich the insurance companies. Yet DU approves of it greatly. |
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Kurt_and_Hunter (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:42 PM Response to Reply #185 |
189. The whole plan does that |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:56 PM Response to Reply #189 |
196. And we cheer. |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 11:00 AM Response to Reply #196 |
219. Cheer? While perhaps a muted cheer. |
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RainDog (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:42 PM Response to Original message |
188. when people don't want to move to those states to work... |
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DireStrike (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:56 PM Response to Original message |
197. Sounds like Dean has his priorities in order |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:57 PM Response to Reply #197 |
198. Hell's bells. We can't get a REAL public option without a majority. |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:58 PM Response to Original message |
199. Let's get this down to 0 or |
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Generator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 07:58 PM Response to Original message |
200. Surely this means Rahm will nix it |
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Barack_America (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 08:27 PM Response to Original message |
205. By 2013 Obama will be reelected and the GOP will no longer care. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:17 PM Response to Original message |
210. Mistake number one: thinking any of them give a shit about us. |
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unkachuck (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:32 PM Response to Original message |
211. K&R....I'm with you, MF, we're all in this together....the Good Doctor has this one wrong....n/t |
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Juche (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 09:51 PM Response to Original message |
213. Dean is from Vermont, so its easy for him to support this |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 10:06 PM Response to Original message |
214. Salon says ""Liberals get their public option....which will make the base happy" |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
215. DU apparently supports rights of states not to give good health care to their people. |
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Shagbark Hickory (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Oct-08-09 10:25 PM Response to Original message |
216. Opt-out = exit strategy. |
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blueworld (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 08:07 AM Response to Original message |
217. Opt-out completely defeats the concept of a Public Option - COST CONTAINMENT |
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Warren Stupidity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 10:57 AM Response to Original message |
218. With a robust public option, this will help your state turn blue. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 12:25 PM Response to Original message |
220. Wrong, for several reasons. |
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veganlush (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 12:30 PM Response to Original message |
221. opt out might get it through |
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Romulox (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 12:36 PM Response to Original message |
222. Just like "right to work" and pro-usury laws, it will hasten a race to the bottom |
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madfloridian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Oct-09-09 12:41 PM Response to Original message |
223. Asking again. Why does a majority matter at all? We cave to the fools. |
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