Max Cleland: 'I Cried Uncontrollably for 2 1/2 Years'

[sabra]

http://www.politicsdaily.com/2009/10/06/max-cleland-i-cried-uncontrollably-for-2-1-2-years/

In a phone interview on Monday, former Georgia Sen. Max Cleland was upbeat – "What's goin' on, kid?'' – and quick to laugh. But after losing his U.S. Senate seat to an opponent who ran post-9/11 TV ads that showed the decorated Vietnam vet alongside Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein, Cleland fell into a depression he was afraid he might not pull out of. It was public service, he says, that had given his life shape and meaning after he left three limbs on a battlefield in Khe Sanh. But without that role, the old darkness came back. Along with his job and his bearings, he lost his relationship with his fiancée. "That's emotionally and physically over,'' he told me. "That's gone.'' And for a time, he was once again a patient at Walter Reed, where he'd first been put back together nearly four decades earlier – and was now surrounded by vets from Iraq and Afghanistan: "I cried uncontrollably for 2 ½ years.''

In his new memoir, "Heart of a Patriot: How I found the Courage to Survive Vietnam, Walter Reed and Karl Rove," written with Ben Raines, Cleland describes his journey to hell and back, twice, this last time because "Karl Rove managed to take away our service,'' he says, referring to himself and his friend and fellow veteran John Kerry. Visually, the 2002 ad for his Republican opponent, Saxby Chambliss, suggested that Cleland was in league with terrorists, while the voice-over announced that he'd voted against the Homeland Security legislation he had actually co-sponsored. Can you ever really let something like that go? "You have to have a sense of God in charge,'' he says. "Which really pisses me off.''

He only made the return trip to the land of the living at all, he says, thanks to God, Cymbalta, and "a 12-Step group that meets Tuesday nights in Washington, for people whose lives have crashed and burned.'' Asked if the faith he's talking about is new for him, he laughs and says that at age 67, "the sense that a power greater than myself could save my rear end is!''

...

Yet alongside the younger soldiers, he did get well, and was at home in Georgia watching Barack Obama's inauguration with his 96-year-old father when one of the most extraordinary moments of healing happened. As he describes it in the book, "Midway through, there came a point that lifted me up and changed my world. Obama was speaking of those 'who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.' When he spoke the words 'For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sanh,' my heart skipped. I couldn't believe he said Khe Sanh. It was an amazing moment for me to finally get recognition, almost 41 years later to the month, for the battle that had changed the course of my life. . . . It made me feel like my sacrifice mattered after all. The war that had taken so much from me was part of America's story.''

...

Obama has, however, made Cleland secretary of the American Battle Monuments Commission, so he has a new job managing the 24 cemeteries where some 200,000 American veterans are buried abroad. "It's been war for me for the last six or seven years, but Obama won – the public saw that Bush was bullfeathers – and that helps me. Public service is who I am and what I do, so I'm coming back to that.''

[Brickbat]

1. The slander of Max Cleland was a goddamn crime.

That was pretty much the end for me.

[Lex]

4. It always reminds me that there is no depth that the right won't sink to.

Disgusting.

[MidwestTransplant]

7. Exactly but the Democratic political leadership forgets it time and time again.

[saracat]

28. And these are the folks we "reach out "to!

[kath]

82. Yep - all that "reach across the aisle" and "bipartisanship" talk.

What. Total. Fucking. Bullshit.

[Cal33]

43. Maybe some of the Democratic leadership don't yet

realize that their Neocon counterparts are criminals. And you
can't deal with criminals. No way!!

[Cal33]

42. Too many of the Neocon leaders are sociopaths. These

are people with criminal personalities. What can you expect of people
like Al Capone?

[MissDeeds]

52. Good call

They are indeed sociopaths. I've never understood how they could hold the Bible in one hand, and a gun in the other and call themselves Christians.

That they would attack a true American patriot like Max Cleland and call him unpatriotic - when he left three limbs on the ground in Viet Nam - and then champion the likes of AWOL Bush and five deferment Dick is depraved.

My heart breaks for Max Cleland, for all he has sacrificed, and the pain he is still enduring.

[phasma ex machina]

57. Did John Brown do a bad thing when he held a gun in one hand and a bible in the other?

[defendandprotect]

61. Hopefully we all understand the damage the GOPs/NRA has done . . .

in fact, Bill Clinton was talking about this recently --

in the mid-term election, the NRA took out 15 Democrats!

As for the Bible and organized patriarchal religion certainly there you find

great immorality and violence and the same kind of "Swiftboating" of people as

the GOP specializes in -- vs women, Jews, homosexuals, Africans, Native Americans.

John Brown, perhaps, was simply using their own weapons against them?

[phasma ex machina]

70. "It was the Christian Church more than any other agency that was responsible for the emancipation

of the slaves," said Dr. Maier. He cited William Wilberforce, an evangelical Christian and member of the British Parliament in the early 19th century, who dedicated his life to abolishing the slave trade.

Likewise, in America it was Christians who agitated for an end to slavery. The Underground Railroad was run by Quakers and other devout Christians. In 1835, two-thirds of the members of the abolition society were ministers of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

"If you pick up credible history, you’ll find that some of the little small denominations today played great roles in fighting against slavery," said Dr. E.V. Hill, pastor of Mt. Zion Missionary Baptist Church in Los Angeles. "If Jesus had not come, the slave—and people who were in slavery—and my fore-parents would not have heard the good news of freedom."

http://www.coralridge.org/impact/2002_Dec_Pg5.htm">Experts Take Issue With Critics of Christianity

[defendandprotect]

85. Did the Christian Church end Segregation . . . ???

I think at most it's a mixed situation -- in MLK, Jr.'s time and in John Brown's time.

The Bible was being used to teach the inferiority of African Americans.
Papal Bulls pushed for the enslavement or death of Native Americans and Africans
enslaved here.

Whites used the Bible/Christianity to teach "pie in the sky when you die" to their slaves.
African-American intelligence took those teachings and used them entirely to their own benefit,
including having the opportunity to communicate with one another on Sundays.

Whether in John Brown's time or MLK,Jr.'s time, good people -- no matter their faith -- tried
to end slavery.

Others, unfortunately, used the Bible and Christianity to maintain slavery and Segregaton.

[WCGreen]

96. Spot on....

[HamdenRice]

107. The lack of historical knowledge around here sometimes is BREATHTAKING and TERRIFYING

Martin Luther King, a Baptist minister, is the person most responsible for ending segregation in the United States, and his organization was called THE SOUTHERN CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP COUNCIL.

How can you even ask such a question or write such a preposterous "analysis"???

It's terrifying that an adult who purports to be liberal/progressive can not know this!

I was a kid in the Black church at the time and resistance to segregation was largely organized through the Black Church.

This question would only be excusable if you are very young and an immigrant and somehow you never had to learn even one paragraph of American history of the 50s and 60s.

I'm an atheist, but that doesn't mean I have to be a complete idiot about history.

[defendandprotect]

125. MLK, Jr. of course used Christianity to overturn Segregation, Inc. --

At the same time OTHERS continued to use Christianity to keep it in place!
Including on the floor of Congress!!

And, that continues on today with The Family, for one --
"Christianity" has always been used to enslave humans --
it's a prime tool of the elite for subverting other peoples, other nations --

We certainly created the "Islamic Jihad movement" in the Middle East to benefit elites/
imperialism. See LINK at bottom of page.

If you are familiar with the American right wing religious movement in America, you also
know that the GOP gave start up funds to the Christian Coalition. The "sexual" revolution -
a misnomer because it challenged all authority and culture in America -- was a threat to
patriarchy and its underpinning which is organized patriarchal religion. Besides financing
the Christian Coalition, wealth right wing like Scaife and others also financed Dobson's and
Bauer's organizations.

In other words, patriarchy is not about to have one of its finest tools go under.
It is still used for imperialistic gains -- and to create passive Americans.





LINK -- See second part -- first part for your information only, if you're not aware of it.

FIRST PART OF THIS DEALS WITH HOW US/CIA CREATED TALIBAN AND AL QAEDA . . .
TO BAIT RUSSIANS INTO AFGHANISTAN . . .!!!


SECOND PART DEALS WITH THE TEXTBOOKS --



The CIA's Intervention in Afghanistan
Interview with Zbigniew Brzezinski,
President Jimmy Carter's National Security Adviser

Le Nouvel Observateur, Paris, 15-21 January 1998

Question: The former director of the CIA, Robert Gates, stated in his memoirs <"From the Shadows">, that American intelligence services began to aid the Mujahadeen in Afghanistan 6 months before the Soviet intervention. In this period you were the national security adviser to President Carter. You therefore played a role in this affair. Is that correct?

Brzezinski: Yes. According to the official version of history, CIA aid to the Mujahadeen began during 1980, that is to say, after the Soviet army invaded Afghanistan, 24 Dec 1979. But the reality, secretly guarded until now, is completely otherwise Indeed, it was July 3, 1979 that President Carter signed the first directive for secret aid to the opponents of the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. And that very day, I wrote a note to the president in which I explained to him that in my opinion this aid was going to induce a Soviet military intervention.

Q: Despite this risk, you were an advocate of this covert action. But perhaps you yourself desired this Soviet entry into war and looked to provoke it?

B: It isn't quite that. We didn't push the Russians to intervene, but we knowingly increased the probability that they would.

Q: When the Soviets justified their intervention by asserting that they intended to fight against a secret involvement of the United States in Afghanistan, people didn't believe them. However, there was a basis of truth. You don't regret anything today?

Q: Regret what? That secret operation was an excellent idea. It had the effect of drawing the Russians into the Afghan trap and you want me to regret it? The day that the Soviets officially crossed the border, I wrote to President Carter. We now have the opportunity of giving to the USSR its Vietnam war. Indeed, for almost 10 years, Moscow had to carry on a war unsupportable by the government, a conflict that brought about the demoralization and finally the breakup of the Soviet empire.

Q: And neither do you regret having supported the Islamic fundamentalism, having given arms and advice to future terrorists?

Q: What is most important to the history of the world? The Taliban or the collapse of the Soviet empire? Some stirred-up Moslems or the liberation of Central Europe and the end of the cold war?

http://www.takeoverworld.info/brzezinski_i... ...


---------------------------------------------------

SECOND PART --


The US spent $100's of millions shooting down Soviet helicopters yet didn't spend a penny helping Afghanis rebuild their infrastructure and institutions.

They also spent millions producing jihad preaching, fundamentalist textbooks and shipping them off to Afghanistan. These were the same text books the Western media discussed in shocked tones and told their audiences were used by fundamentalist teachers to brainwash their charges and to inculcate in young Afghanis a jihad mindset, hatred of foreigners and non-Muslims etc.


Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal?

Or perhaps I should say, "Have you heard about the Afghan Jihad schoolbook scandal that's waiting to happen?"

Because it has been almost unreported in the Western media that the US government shipped, and continues to ship, millions of Islamist textbooks into Afghanistan.

Only one English-speaking newspaper we could find has investigated this issue: the Washington Post. The story appeared March 23rd.

Washington Post investigators report that during the past twenty years the US has spent millions of dollars producing fanatical schoolbooks, which were then distributed in Afghanistan.

"The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books..." -- Washington Post, 23 March 2002 (1)

According to the Post the U.S. is now "...wrestling with the unintended consequences of its successful strategy of stirring Islamic fervor to fight communism."

So the books made up the core curriculum in Afghan schools. And what were the unintended consequences? The Post reports that according to unnamed officials the schoolbooks "steeped a generation in violence."

How could this result have been unintended? Did they expect that giving fundamentalist schoolbooks to schoolchildren would make them moderate Muslims?

Nobody with normal intelligence could expect to distribute millions of violent Islamist schoolbooks without influencing school children towards violent Islamism. Therefore one would assume that the unnamed US officials who, we are told, are distressed at these "unintended consequences" must previously have been unaware of the Islamist content of the schoolbooks.

But surely someone was aware. The US government can't write, edit, print and ship millions of violent, Muslim fundamentalist primers into Afghanistan without high officials in the US government approving those primers.

http://www.tenc.net/articles/jared/jihad.h...

[Mimosa]

115. Ever hear of Reverend Vernon Johns? Rev. MLK or Rev. Jesse Jackson?

The 1950 civil rights movement was largely carried on in churches in the South.

How about all the Catholic nuns and priests who were active in the Civil Rights movement?

BTW, I'm glad Cymbalta worked for Max Cleland. That stuff can be bad.

[defendandprotect]

126. Yes . . . Christianity was used against those who use it for other purposes . . .

but those other purposes continued to exist at the time --

and continue to exist now!!!

KKK uses a huge CROSS and "Christianity" --

Christianity was taught to slaves in order to pacify them --
However, Afridan-Amerians were intelligent enough to see thru it and use it to
free themselves.

As far as I recall, the Vatican certainly didn't CRUSADE to end Segretation in the South
or anywhere else?

Do you really think "The Family" and all the Christians in Congress are working for
equality?




Finally, Capitalism promoted religion, the opiate designed to keep the working class
docile." Schrank/"Wasn't That A Time"


POPE told Portugal & Spain re Africa that they could put the infidels into servitude."
"The Middle Passage"

[demigoddess]

122. church is as church does

I personally have heard church goers talk about beating up and killing an old women because she was an atheist. On the church lawn, immediately after church services. And I thought it was a nice church. One of the reasons, I believe, that schools have been defunded so much is because the children are not forced to pray in school anymore. No prayers, no history. No prayers, no science. No prayers, no music classes.

[defendandprotect]

127. I'm sure that those who beat up AA Civil Rights protesters were "Christians" --

Agree with you re the school defunding -- in retaliation and to avoid integration.

Americans wouldn't have agree to that of course so it was done by creating private

"Christian" schools in the south -- and has now expanded to "Charter" schools --

And, I've read that 50% of the Federal schools budget was at one point money for the CIA!

So, Americans really didn't know what was happening -- though the attacks on the schools

did quickly become obvious, the "underfunding" was in large part hidden.

[MissDeeds]

80. Yes n/t

[SpiralHawk]

100. It was chickenhawk Republicons smearing a real veteran

About as low as you can go -- that's Republiconism

[Enthusiast]

103. Yes.

They will do anything. They are the lowest of the low. They are historically right there with the worst of humanity - of all time.

[City Lights]

112. Exactly right. Nothing is beneath them.

Absolutely nothing.

Depraved scumbags.

[NEOBuckeye]

40. Karl Rove truly is one of the most disgusting people alive.

But think of this: That which Max Cleland endured would completely break Rove, were the tables turned.

As they say, what goes around, comes around, for good or ill. Cleland has finally received his due. Rove will also get his.

[rfranklin]

55. This is why Republicans and wingnuts must be crushed...

They must be relentlessly pursued and beaten into a senseless, bloody pulp. (In a figurative sense of course.)

[MadMaddie]

58. I love Max Cleland!

What I don't understand is why Dems have not been suing these lying, slandering Repuglicans? There is absolute facts to defeat the lies that they put out but no one is suing....Why?

[harkadog]

72. This isn't England or France

People in those countries sue for slander all the time and are many times successful. Because of the First amendment and state defamation laws in this country it is nearly impossible to successfully sue for slander.

[marshall]

123. Action would certainly be a first move toward fighting profound depression

Being busy with a good cause does wonders.

[marshall]

124. Action would certainly be a first move toward fighting profound depression

Being busy with a good cause does wonders.

[calimary]

68. No Frickin' Kidding. That was one of the biggest outrages of that miserable year.

When they had the audacity to question the patriotism of Max Cleland - who lived the war the way pansy-ass yet bellicose cowards like kkkarl rove never did - I was beyond outraged. How dare they?!?!?!? Violating that taboo was utterly inexcusable and it strongly colored the way I feel about republi-CONS by now.

I'm sure you know how it is - you just really yearn to think and experience the best of people. I find myself Ann Frank'ing it all the time. That statement of hers "Despite everything, I believe that people are really good at heart" goes through my mind frequently. Saw what they did to Clinton for more than eight straight years. Saw how they stole the 2000 election. Saw how they started telling tall tales in their shrieking for war. And then what they did to Max Cleland. Max Cleland of ALL people. Okay, take him on for his policies if you don't like those, but for the love of God - question his patriotism????????????? Yeah, that was pretty much the end for me too, in terms of trying - VERY hard - to find something "good at heart" about them. Who on earth would want to do that to someone like Max Cleland, considering what he's given for his country? What "good of heart" person on the planet would even think of stooping so low? Oh yeah, and that's not it, either. I remember very little about other republi-CONS stepping forward to rebuke the chambliss campaign or denounce that hideous, detestable smear. That is lower than low. They were all on full raw bloody meat attack mode, ruthlessly and relentlessly so. Just finally drove it home and closed and locked the door for me about how and what republi-CONS are. There are some cesspools you just do not dip a toe into - if you have any decency as a human being, that is. I've come to loathe the GOP. And they continue to demonstrate loathsomeness on a daily basis.

Shame!!!!!!!!!!

They should all burn in Hell for this.

[annm4peace]

78. I agree.

I don't care what your politics are. When they slandered Max Clelland and Kerry,,, they really showed what kind of scum they are and anyone who supported them was scum also

[Ardent15]

83. Yep. Chambliss is a worthless piece of shit.

And Karl Rove and his proteges are as well.

[Liberal_in_LA]

87. +1

[Major Hogwash]

98. It was a very dark hour for America, that they could think of doing that to a veteran during a war,

Max has been my standard bearer for a long time.
I've never met him, but when things look bad for me, or for America, I look to Max for inspiration, strength, and courage.

I thank gawd that my father and grandfather were not alive to witness the depths that election campaign went to with the terrible smears that were made personally against Max.
Max may not be a Senator now, but he is a hero to many, many people for surviving the meanest smear campaign against a veteran ever launched in the age of television.

After we saw what they did to Max, we knew they would go after anyone just as hard that would dare to stand up to them in 2004.
We saw what they did to Kerry later in 2004, but they only did it because they were successful in 2002 against Max first.

That time was certainly a dark day for America.

"I can see clearly now, the rain is gone . . .

[Joe Chi Minh]

111. And the faeces of pond-life had the gall to make political capital from the story

about returning Vietnam veterans being spat at; and that was said to be apocryphal.

If that advertisement wasn't spitting in the face of a returning multiple amputee Vietnam veteran, wrenching his medals from his chest, hurling them in the dust, dancing on them and then urinating on them, I don't know what ever could be! The flames of hell could not be fierce enough for such scum.

If Saxby Chamblis (What sort of a pansy name is that?) played a part in that, he should be imprisoned, as should the others. If there isn't a crime of 'constructive defamation", there should be.

[supernova]

2. Godspeed, Max!

Much happiness to you, always.

:patriot:

Thanks for posting. I was wondering what happened to him after that damn Chambliss person. So glad he's got himself together now and feeling useful again.

[grantcart]

3. Glad to see that Max is back on top again.

[Nikki Stone1]

5. I remember Dick Morris quoting the Big Dog saying that the Republicans were "evil"

Morris used it as a bludgeon, but the Big Dog was right.

[tblue]

10. Damn straight! nt

[Hell Hath No Fury]

6. The thugs who fucked over this man --

need to rot. :mad: I can only hope the Karma Gods plant a brain tumor on Rove for his hand in this.

[drmeow]

94. and that his insurance company

denies him coverage for the treatment. Karl Rove is a cancer on the world, it is only fitting that the world should give him cancer back.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. God, I love that title.

[tblue]

9. So Obama made him Secretary of Cemeteries? WTF?!

Cleland should be Secretary of Defense! I actually met him once in the 2004 primaries in NH. Lovely man. He is the warmest, kindest famous person I ever met, and there were a lot of well-known people there then. That moment was when I realized I can never ever forgive Republicans or anyone who votes for them. Thank God none of my blood relatives ever has. Secretary of Battlefields. Obama, what is wrong with you?

[Cha]

46. Please don't denigrate what Max Cleland is doing now.

"Yet alongside the younger soldiers, he did get well, and was at home in Georgia watching Barack Obama's inauguration with his 96-year-old father when one of the most extraordinary moments of healing happened. As he describes it in the book, "Midway through, there came a point that lifted me up and changed my world. Obama was speaking of those 'who have carried us up the long, rugged path towards prosperity and freedom.' When he spoke the words 'For us, they fought and died, in places like Concord and Gettysburg; Normandy and Khe Sanh,' my heart skipped. I couldn't believe he said Khe Sanh. It was an amazing moment for me to finally get recognition, almost 41 years later to the month, for the battle that had changed the course of my life. . . . It made me feel like my sacrifice mattered after all. The war that had taken so much from me was part of America's story.''

Obama has, however, made Cleland secretary of the American Battle Monuments Commission, so he has a new job managing the 24 cemeteries where some 200,000 American veterans are buried abroad. "It's been war for me for the last six or seven years, but Obama won – the public saw that Bush was bullfeathers – and that helps me. Public service is who I am and what I do, so I'm coming back to that.''

Some people appreciate what joy they have..Max Cleland has come along way. I see where he didn't get married and that was one thing I read that his financee was making him happy after he lost the election to the rove smear.

Maybe he'll actually find someone someday to pardner up with?

[tblue]

91. My apologies. That's not what I meant. I just think he could do so much more.

He could be put to so much better use. I am glad if he's happy where he is. I heard him today on Terri Gross, and he sounded like he likes his job.

[TicketyBoo]

108. Public Television

aired a lovely documentary on the foreign military cemeteries on Memorial Day, Hallowed Grounds. If you had seen it, you would understand what an honor it would be to be involved in the administration of those cemeteries.

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Max is WAY up there on my list of People Who I Respect, Love, and Admire

It is a small list.

Like three or four others.

Secretary of Cemeteries Not in The US?

Am I supposed to be cheering for this?

[xxqqqzme]

12. He seems content w/ it for now.

A little step back into some public service. It will lead to a new place. He is a survivor. Chambliss will rot from the inside out.

[CTyankee]

18. You know, there is something poignant about that.

I could see where Max would find deep satisfaction in keeping faith with those soldiers who fell and were buried far from home. I think I understand your basic feeling about his appointment but in a way it might be a very big comfort to Max. My heart goes out to him for his suffering. Why am I always so astounded at the depths of the depravity of people like Karl Rove?

[Libertas1776]

26. I have to agree too

Having the distinction of "watching over," so to speak, all the American soldiers buried overseas is a great honor and I can think of no better person with whom this honor should be bestowed than Senator Max Cleland (I still call him senator because his seat was stolen from him), a true American patriot and a war veteran, unlike that piece of shit, bottom feeding, opportunist scum Rove who will never understand or probably ever care about or appreciate the sacrifice made by people like Cleland and all those men and women buried overseas. To him, they're just betting chips in a card game.

They'll be a special place in hell reserved for Rove, and Chambliss, and the rest.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. I understand. But if he's to watch over soldiers, why not as head of the VA?

Max sincerely and viscerally GIVES A SHIT. And he gets it.

[CTyankee]

56. Gee, I don't know, Stinky. I feel on the one hand, yes, he SHOULD get the top job

but on the other hand, maybe at 67 he has a mellower, less political and more "personal" relationship with his job? Does that make sense? I dunno, but at a certain point in your life you really WANT to make a difference, you really think about what it is that you have done in your life. Top jobs don't matter as much, fame, etc, doesn't do it for you...hard to explain, I've been there and am now retired and I know this in my old bones...

Just some ruminations from an old worker in the "vineyards" (as it were) -- I've been in nonprofits (all progressive) all my working career...it makes a difference in your life whether you feel productive and as a "change agent."

Sorry to get so personal here but I feel for this man so deeply...I know you understand...he must get to some closure; his life has had great meaning and many of us here love him for it.

[Stinky The Clown]

67. You make perfect sense ...... and oh how well I can understand it ......

I know what you mean. My proudest accomplishment was getting a continuing ed requirement and professional accreditation for my industry's practitioners. That was over ten years ago. I still care a great deal, but in - as you say - a more mellow way. There is no way I have the same fire to battle the status quo and good ol boy network. So yeah ...... I get what you're saying.

I wish I knew where Max was on this. If he's happy, then so am I.

But I will NEVER forgive that shitbag, Saxby Chambliss, even if Max has or does.

[MasonJar]

13. Even with the slander of Max Cleland in Georgia it is pretty evident he

actually won that election. That was one of the Diebold crimes of the decade. The codes were broken into in various locations and other criminal election acts. Saxby Chambliss can roast in hell along with Bush, Cheney and Rove. I wonder if any of them ever even stops to consider what slime they are or if they know it and do not care. One day in the life of a great hero like Max Cleland is worth more than Rove's entire existence. What did Rove ever do that was positive and helped our nation?

[truedelphi]

95. + 10 n/t

[derby378]

14. The best revenge...

...would be for Cleland to run for the US Senate in Georgia and win by a landslide over that Republican chump.

[Crankie Avalon]

15. Maybe he could be the next VA secretary if Shinseki moves on? nt

[spanone]

16. it proves what a small man karl rove is, to go after a real hero like cleland.

karl didn't leave a fingernail on any battlefield

[backtomn]

131. Neither did Cleland....

Does anyone here realize that Cleland lost his limbs in a "NON-BATTLEFIELD" incident. Apparently, a grenade was accidently dropped while he was getting on a chopper to go for leave (please look it up). I support any campaign of his to re-take his Senate seat, he is a great American, but let's deal with facts.....please. All this outrage is ridiculous. Unfortunately, this is politics, plain and simple. We need to have our response, not sit around and whine about a result....that is in the past. As things are going, and considering the past, we might have a difficult 2010. What are we going to do about it??

[Mz Pip]

17. There is a special place in hell

for Saxby Chambliss and his evil advisors. Scum on the bottom of Satan's feet would be too good for him.

[Joe Fields]

19. you echo my sentiments perfectly.

I am left with little to say. I actually have a lot to say, but it has been eloquently said already. God bless Max Cleland. I think he will eventually get his just reward.

[Maru Kitteh]

120. Amen.

[bobbolink]

20. What a lovely man! I want this book! Thanks so much for posting!

[wizstars]

21. How can Saxby Chambliss and Karl Rove sleep at night???

for what they did to this man. Hell IS too good for some evil bastards, and I hope they never know a moment's peace. May they rot in hell.

[bobbolink]

22. Sociopaths don't have trouble sleeping.

Only those of us with a heart and soul do.

One mistake god made....

[jeffbr]

23. They also live a long and prosperous life

on the money they stole

[Winterblues]

27. I am sure they still laugh heartily over that victory and how stupid the people were to fall for it.

I actually served in the same unit as Max but did not know him. I was there for the relief of Khe Sahn at the same time he was. 2nd of the 12th Cav 1st Air Cav Div. "Roving Gambler"

[DainBramaged]

24. May God bless and keep Max, a true hero and patriot

:patriot:

[malaise]

25. When Rove is finally caught or meets some tragic painful end

I don't want a single DUer to deprive me of my celebration for the end of that nasty criminal scumbag.

Shout it from the mountain top Max Cleland.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

51. Invoking the ghost of Lee Atwater, maybe??

And his "jumper cables" remark. :grr:

[AuntPatsy]

29. since I am not hundred percent positive that a "hell" does indeed exist...

unlike others wishing he face hell when he passes away...mine is that he face his demons now, while alive and while a true american hero Max Cleland can be assured to watch his accusers face the justice they have yet to face...

If there truly is a God than it would more than unfair for those like rove to continue without having to face the same horrors and despair that he has ensured countless victims face in the years to date...

I cannot believe the loathing and rage that I am capable these days in regards to so many other so called human beings...I can only hope and wish that all those victims left scarred by the likes of cheney, rove, rush etc..far too many to name will be allowed to view these monsters destruction..

In my mind nothing is more inhumane than to be behind bars for the rest of one's days...I honestly find such hideous sentences to be worse than the death penalty and that is my wish that before too many victims are not around to see justice served...all those mentioned find themselves locked up inside the very system that they have pushed so many citizens of this country inside regardless of innocence..

But unlike their victims..they are deserving of said punishment and as the days pass by I can only wonder why they are still allowed to roam this great earth freely and without chains weighing them down with each step and each breath they forever make..

I am in my way a victim of their hate and their crimes....because I have never wished such harsh sentences to anyone in my life not even my worst enemy...I was always for the death penalty but in their case..such is simply more than any of them deserve...

[Octafish]

30. Now there is a good man.

Sen. Cleland always puts others first. It's way past time his country treats him the same way.

[Hekate]

31. God be with you, Max Cleland; and thank you for your unending service...

:patriot:

Hekate

[MissDeeds]

54. + 1

:patriot:

[Soylent Brice]

32. bullfeathers is putting it extremely politely. EXTREMELY.

you're a better man than i, Senator Cleland.

K&R

[NNN0LHI]

33. Damn, I really do hate Republicans

[jwirr]

34. Max always makes me cry. I will buy his book to honor him and

give the stupid people of Georgia who voted against this good man the finger.

[Ezlivin]

36. Cleland resigned the 9/11 Commission in disgust

Cleland attacked his own commission after the other members cut a deal to accept highly limited access to CIA reports to the White House that may indicate advance knowledge of the attacks on the part of the Bush administration. "This is a scam," Cleland said. "It's disgusting. America is being cheated."

"As each day goes by," Cleland said, "we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted.... Let's chase this rabbit into the ground. They had a plan to go to war and when 9/11 happened that's what they did; they went to war."

Max you are not alone. A lot of us think the events of 9/11 don't add up and would love to see a new, independent investigation.

But first a word of advice: Max, don't go into the DU Dungeon and attempt to mention your doubts.

[Canuckistanian]

69. +1

The man knows bullshit when he sees it.

[HughBeaumont]

133. ++100.

They knew, and they did NOTHING.

[The Wizard]

37. I met Max four years ago

and it was a truly inspirational experience. I offered to beat the shit out of Karl Rove and Max told me to get in line.
Tomorrow I'll be having lunch with Max, and I'll make the same offer.
Max is a real American hero and someone for whom veterans have the utmost respect and admiration.
And if that vile scumbag Aryan Annie Coulter has occasion to cross my path all bets are off for the despicable comments she made about Max.
Ku Klux Karl and Ku Klux Koulter should always be looking over their shoulders for disparaging Max and other veterans.

[DoBotherMe]

39. Tell him Hi for me!

He won't remember me, but I worked locally for John Kerry'04 and followed his campaign all over Iowa and saw Max many, many times. His smile can light the universe. Dana ; )

[NNN0LHI]

47. I would feel damn privileged to be able to sit down with Max for lunch some day

Please tell him if he is ever in my neck of the woods he would be welcomed at my house for lunch, dinner and breakfast if it ever fits his schedule. My wife is a great cook too.

Please give him my best regards.

Don

[Historic NY]

74. Please tell Max to come to the National Purple Heart Hall of Honor for a visit.

http://www.thepurpleheart.com/visit/

http://www.thepurpleheart.com/programs/

I'd like him to visit and have his story recorded. I can arrange everything.
Have him come with SoS. Clinton she knows the place well.

[The Wizard]

130. I gave Max's

aide the contact information for the National Purple Heart Hall of Honor.
And everyone should get his new book Heart of a Patriot.

[Odin2005]

38. Chambliss is a monster.

[Uncle Joe]

41. I disagree with Cleland on one point, Karl Rove and/or Saxby Chambliss couldn't do shit

without the silent acquiescence if not outright support from the dysfunctional corporate media.

How many of them in real time called Rove or Chambliss on their slanders, how many networks or television stations turned down commercial money comparing Cleland to Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein.

Karl Rove couldn't carry their jock straps much less "take away Cleland or Kerry's service" without a corporate media; willing to sell their collective soul for profit and or job security, the truth meant nothing and to a large degree ie; health care still doesn't.

[Freddie Stubbs]

44. The ironic thing is that DUers would be calling Cleland a DINO and calling for his head if he were

still a Senator. He was more of a moderate than Landrieu, Bayh, or Bill Nelson.

[jgraz]

45. Landrieu, Bayh and Nelson are not moderates

And if Cleland was to the right of them, you're damn right we'd be calling for his head (metaphorically) -- especially if he was obstructing healthcare reform.

Of course, he couldn't possibly be worse than Chambliss.

[NNN0LHI]

48. But DUers can be anybody. Nader Nuts, Ron Paul loonies, and worse. We got them all here

Comes with being on an anonymous political chat site where no one knows who is who.

No Democrats would be doing what you are suggesting.

Don

[defendandprotect]

62. Democrats replacing Clelland with someone more progressive is one thing . . .

in a fair campaign based on the issues --

A vicious Swiftboating by Karl Rove attacking his military record in order

to deceive the public and replace him with a right wing Repug is entirely another!!!

[McCamy Taylor]

49. That election was STOLEN by Diebold and the GOP. Even Georgia voters are not stupid

enough to believe that he was a terrorist. In public, the GOP praised Rove for his dirty ads. But in private, they applaud Diebold for unseating a popular governor with a double digit lead in the polls. Note that minority dominant areas like Atlanta had an unexplained (and improbable) number of votes for the GOP.

[DemBones DemBones]

97. Ding, ding, ding!

It was also odd that Roy Barnes (D), the incumbent governor, lost in that same election. Diebold odd.

[Stevepol]

101. Huzzah Huzzah! All this whining about the Repubs tactics is just meaningless.

What else do they ever do? What would you expect the Repubs to do? They have no arguments on their side and they always end up name-calling and smearing.

It is always amazing to me that these posts always ignore the voting machines. The reasoning and the sentiments are all highly commendable, but they ignore the real problem. It's like somebody chained to a pick up and being dragged along the road complaining about the bumper stickers.

The American people can only cast their vote and hope it gets honestly recorded and reported. To blame factors that are irrelevant to the result is just destructive and counterproductive. It makes the average voter the enemy when he's not. In GA, democracy doesn't exist anymore, at least not in the voting booth. And the same is true in most other places around the country.

Once the tallying of votes can be verified, Dems will have more than enough spine.

[glitch]

119. b i n g o nt

[onehandle]

50. My Senator. nt

[demodonkey]

53. Elections have consequences. People better wake up about the dangers to our voting systems.

I am among the many that believe that Cleland WON that election and was Diebolded out of his seat.

Election integrity is not a joke and everything is NOT OK because Obama won. The dangers are still there.

[L. Coyote]

109. First ever e-vote election in Georgia, and the voters suddenly throw out an incumbent??

A focus on black box voting is missing from this tale. Diebold acted illegally in that election.

[beac]

59. It makes me want to cry for 2.5 years knowing how this noble man has suffered.

It makes me feel like a bad person, but I REALLY want something terrible to happen to Karl Rove. He destroyed so many lives and he's walking around free and breezy. :mad:

[defendandprotect]

60. Have GEORGIA voters ever woken up to what happened with this?

Or is the Rove magic still working there?

[GoCubsGo]

65. Nope. Still asleep...

They re-elected Suxby Chambliss last time he was up for election. They also elected that batshit crazy whacko Paul Broun, that putrid, little asshole, Jack Kingston, and other shitbags, including Phil Gingrey and Lynn Westmoreland.

[defendandprotect]

86. hmmmm........sigh....... sad --

[pitohui]

63. oh my god, i'm crying now myself

what this man has been thru for this country!

[Flying Dream Blues]

121. Me, too. I'm sometimes so ashamed of what we've allowed to happen here. nt

[ramapo]

64. Don't let Georgians off the hook

As bad as the Rovian tactics were, the moronic voters of Georgia get the ultimate blame. To add insult to injury, the slimeball who defeated Cleland was relected.

[liquid diamond]

79. I hate the South. Republikkkans can have that shit hole region of America.

[Mimosa]

116. Um, Ok. We'll keep it, thank you.

Your attitude is definitely part of why conservative strategists win in some areas.

Yes, I love my South. I love my GA, I left my heart in multiculcural New Orleans. I love Charleston, Savannah... North Carolina has some of the sweetest, kindest people anywhere.

I've heard more racist slurs and BS in NEW JERSEY than any place I've ever lived in the South!

[graywarrior]

66. I met him in Sarasota when he was campaigning for Kerry

He's a fighter and a survivor, but you could tell he wore his heart on his sleeve. Wicked nice guy.

[wial]

71. you know

Rove deserves to suffer greatly

it might be the only way to teach him what is real.

but supermax prison will do.

[Historic NY]

73. Max still serves with the buddies left behind....

:patriot:

[TroglodyteScholar]

75. I cast a vote for Cleland the very first time I voted...

...and it just happened to be that same sleazy, Diebold-tainted election. It really makes me sad to think what Cleland could've done for Georgia and the nation as a whole. He's a brilliant Democratic voice, but the slander and fraud of that election would've shaken anybody up. Sonny Perdue also makes me very sad :(.

[JerseygirlCT]

76. Kicked for Max Cleland nt

[Jennicut]

77. This post made me cry. Max Cleland has class and has overcome

what Rove and the disgusting Rethugs did to him.

I like what he is doing now. Finding comfort in helping manage the cemeteries where our soldiers, the people who give the real sacrifice, something Rove and co could never dream of, are laid to rest.

[PSzymeczek]

81. I kind of expect

that Wes Clark will be the next SecDef. I can deal with that.

[samplegirl]

84. Just the thought of Rove still not behind bars is

beyond thought.

[rasputin1952]

88. Max was on w/Terry Gross tonight on NPR...

As usual, he was his graceful self.

That shitbox Saxby Chambliss is a pathetic piece of humanity...what they did to Max was horrid.

Few people realize that a couple of weeks before the grenade incident, Cleland, a Captain in the Army Signal Corps, was awarded the Silver Star for saving several soldiers during a firefight...he dragged wounded soldiers to safety and tended to their wounds. Chambliss was figuring out ways to avoid military service, something Chickenhawks are quite adept at.

Max is a hero, Chambliss is a zero.

[midnight]

89. K&R for Max.

[craigmatic]

90. I feel sorry for this guy he put everything on the line for this country and the same people he for

turned on him because of slanderous lies. Cleland used to be my senator I hope he runs again. He's a good guy.

[DemoTex]

92. Imagine Saxby in Viet Nam. Imagine Saxby an officer. Imagine Saxby pulling his shit on the troops.

Imagine. There was a word for what could happen to an asshole like Saxby Chambliss in Viet Nam. But, of course, this is a moot essay. Saxby never went to Viet Nam. He was in the protected class that would later, just as sure and predictable as the moon and the tides, send the unprotected classes to their deaths in the Middle East.

[Liquorice]

93. Democrats should all loudly demand that Saxby publicly apologize to Max Cleland. nt

[onestepforward]

99. Big K&R for Max Cleland. He's one of the finest. n/t

[RFKHumphreyObama]

102. Max Cleland is a hero, a man of honor and a noble patriot

I'm sure he doesn't think of himself as a hero, as is the case with all true heroes, but he is. He served his country with honor and valor and his courage, integrity and nobility should serve as a shining example for us all. The American nation and the world are inifintely better for his presence in it

[mod mom]

104. Send Karl Rove to prison & throw away the key.

[Submariner]

105. We understand Max

Being lied about by a yellow belly draft dodging coward, and a racist cracker to boot, has got to hurt.

Saxby Chambliss is that slimy substance that develops between the seabed and a chunk of whale shit.

[Politicub]

106. The most evil political ad ever

It makes me ashamed to live in GA to this day.

But did Chambliss get called out for it? Aside from we Dems speaking out, I don't think he did.

But history will be on Cleland's side, but at what price? That ad and people who supported it contribute to the chipping away of human decency.

And as someone said above, there is no bottom for the GOP thugs. None.

[Inuca]

129. Hagel offered to appear in ads

against Chambliss unless the offensive ad was taken down. McCain was quite vocal too (he has his moments).

[Joe Bacon]

110. I cried too, Max

I cried seeing how Karl Rove and his puppet draftdodger Saxby tore you to pieces and got away with it.

[George II]

113. Cleland - a TRUE American patriot. bush/Cheney? 100% cowardly traitors!

[nvme]

114. Wh3n Novak died of brain cancer I smiled.

When Chamblis, Rove, Rumsfeld,and Cheney go to the great beyond I will dance a jig a piss in a gutter(no offense to the gutter) to mark their passing. I thank God Almighty that I am young enough to know that I will see that day come to pass. I make no apologies. I am saddened by the damage these bottom feeders have done to our great nation.

[Stuart G]

117. These people who destroyed Cleland.. should never be forgotten..

As others have said, they will do anything.

[Iwillnevergiveup]

118. What a fine, decent man

who's obviously come to terms with a lot. While not necessarily a big fan of retribution, wouldn't it be fantastic if Max's book outpaced Palin's stupid rogue garbage?

K&Rec #197 for a real hero:patriot:

[defendandprotect]

128. Americans have to wake up to PROPAGANDA . . . and not let this happen again . . .!!!

PROPAGANDA keeps the body politic from functioning properly and

undermines democracy. Schrank/Wasn't That a Time




Think that's where I picked it up from --

[guitar man]

132. there is nothing they won't stoop to

nothing....they are beyond disgusting :grr:

[mdmc]

134. --