Folks, I Think It Has Passed The Point At Which It Can Reasonably Be Doubted That We're Gonna Win...

[BlooInBloo]

On healthcare. We're going to get a public option.

Will it be the public option of all of our wishes and dreams? Certainly not. But it will be a public option that deserves the name, and that's good enough as a strong first step towards some sort of an out-and-out single payer system.

Could I be mistaken? Sure - I *could* be. That risk is the price of making assertions, and I'm not exempt from that cost. But it's past the point of "cautious optimism" for me, and to the point where I would wager my own money on it. (In a sense, I already have, of course; but I mean explicitly so.)

I think the thing that crystallized it for me, over and above all of the good (!) news lately, was this: They're killing all of the proverbial hostages they can - which is in practice a precursor to losing the hostage stand-off:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/05/wellpoint-cuts-workers-he_n_309716.html

[Barack_America]

1. "Health Care Can't Wait"..."Stop Denying Our Care: Public Option Now"

Just walked past both of those signs in yards in my neighborhood. I kid you not.

Sometimes I really love Philly.

:loveya:

[msongs]

2. "public option" is NO good if it's just a corporate welfare give away. agreed with Howard Dean

on that all the way.

Msongs

[saracat]

3. Yup.

[Ruby the Liberal]

7. Including not being an option for everyone who wants in

People like me who are afraid to use my insurance for fear of being labeled as having a pre-existing condition.

I would gladly pay 2x or even 3x to know I am covered - no matter what.

[babylonsister]

16. If I get a health care reform bill without consideration for pre-existing

conditions that raise my premiums to heights I can't afford, that will be a great first step-for me.

If I get a health care reform bill that won't be able to consider a serious condition in the future care of me (recission), that will be progress.

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2009/06/healthcare-ceos-shoot-themselves-foot

Yesterday the House Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations decided to investigate the practice of recission. This is when you pay your premiums for years to a healthcare insurer, then get sick, and then have your insurance cancelled.

[Ruby the Liberal]

24. Do any of these out-of-committee plans propose premium caps?

[babylonsister]

28. Not that I know of, but you could google it. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

30. I did a few weeks ago. I found nothing.

[babylonsister]

31. Nothing bad to complain about? I found this in a minute, from March...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/25/washington/25health.html

Insurers Ease Stance on Pre-Existing Conditions


And I've read the two issues I addressed would happen as soon as a bill is passed.

Google does work, if you try it.

[Ruby the Liberal]

34. Thanks, but "We promise we'll be good" isn't the same

as federally mandated premium caps.

[babylonsister]

37. OK, everything sucks and nothing will ever be better. Got it. Bye. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

38. I honestly did not mean to offend.

Just someone on the edge of losing hope of being able to find employment and terrified about the coming months when my unemployment runs out and my COBRA goes up by 300%. I also have an auto-immune disease. Forgive me for being scared and negative about the sausage-making when we need action. I am just frustrated at the wrangling with the party of NO when people need the safety net. Hell, the senate can't even agree on extending UC.

[babylonsister]

39. Thanks, and I have my own concerns, but I cannot be so pessimistic.

As bad as my current situation is, I am hoping for the best.

I'm frustrated also, but I have to have faith. That's the way I deal with all life's travails. I'm learning it's the best of a bad deal. :(

[Cant trust em]

4. There will be many ways to slice what a "win" is. nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. We will see hell on earth if this passes but doesn't go into effect until 2013

They will suck every single dime out of us in the next 3 years. Like a bandaid, we need to pull quickly.

[tridim]

10. I think the new insurance co laws go into effect upon Obama's signature

It's the PO part that will take some time.

[Ruby the Liberal]

11. And we should believe that their army of attorneys won't

exploit any loophole they can?

Please correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe any of the 4 plans out of committee speak to premium caps.

[CTyankee]

19. I think the people are too angry. Enough is enough. nt

[tridim]

20. Absolutely sure they'll try

And everyone will see exactly why the PO (and maybe even single payer) is mandatory.

[Ruby the Liberal]

21. And how many will lose their homes waiting on the pissing match to play out?

[tridim]

22. I'm already losing my home, no need to preach to me.

[Ruby the Liberal]

23. I am so sorry, and I didn't mean to preach

I am just so disgusted at the moment and am not feeling very glass-half-full about it. I am unemployed and within a few months of running out of the benefits that are covering but a fraction of my bills. I understand, friend and I am so sorry you are going through this.

:hug:

[Thickasabrick]

6. We will have a start - or beginning - or whatever you want to call

it. It won't be perfect - neither was social security or medicare which took years to tweak and we are still tweaking. A start is huge to me.

[saracat]

13. Many of us don't have 'years" and there is NO reason to have to wait.

I would be grateful for a PO that covered everyone.I am not grateful for a "start" because they can't be trusted to finish it and there is no reason to not completely include everyone.

[Thickasabrick]

14. I can empathize with your situation as I am in the same boat but

the reality is that even if we had a 70 majority, it still would not initially be what is truly needed....which is Medicare for everyone. This is the closest we've come to anything in 50 years. I'm not sure I'll be around when they finally get something that actually helps but again, it's a start.

[Junkdrawer]

8. We WILL get a "Public Option". Won't be worth spitting at, but...

we WILL get a "Public Option".

It will probably have triggers.

It will exclude all but the very poor and the very sick.

Its payment rates will be "competitive" with private plans.

It will not be allowed to mandate acceptance.

But, we WILL get a "Public Option".

And here's the kicker:

It won't go into effect until 2013 and, for the next 3-4 years we'll be told how WONDERFUL it is.

[saracat]

9. But "what" kind of Public Option? Something isn't better than nothing!

You apparently "trust" them to do more later if it isn't a solid PO. I don't.If they don't get it right now, the odds aren't good they will ever get it right and we could be stuck with something that hurts more than it helps. I don't believe in mandates for something that doesn't benefit everyone.

[bluestateguy]

12. The doomers and gloomers are going to come and get you

Boo!

[BlooInBloo]

15. Two things fill the mind with ever new and increasing wonder and awe...

the starry heavens above me and the moral law within me.

Note that the doom & gloomers are nowhere on this list.

[Odin2005]

46. Nice Kant quote!

:)

[BlooInBloo]

50. :) Always been my fav.

[BlooInBloo]

59. And note that there is no understanding what Kant is saying there...

without a serious understanding of the deep Newtonian context within which Kant saw himself.

[spanone]

17. k&r

[ZombieHorde]

18. Although your subject line was a bit difficult to decipher, I hope your main point comes to pass.

I have been mostly quiet on health care predictions because I am not sure which way we are headed. Both the optimists, such as yourself, and the pessimists have made some good arguments on this issue.

[NecklyTyler]

25. We have to get a health care law on the books and signed into law

Once we have a law, we can come back and amend it every legislative session. We can have a single payer system signed into law in five years, but only if we get a bill through the House and the Senate to work with this year

[NecklyTyler]

26. K&R

[bridgit]

27. It didn't need to be quite this stiff, the image languished at the feet...

RW hate-radio for weeks, months on end where it withered without repair, and so? There but for the ill-grace of Bonnie & Clyde go we :wtf:

[Sebastian Doyle]

29. If anybody thinks its acceptable to pass a shitty bill now and fix it later

You should remember two things from the Clinton DLC administration.

NAFTA

Don't Ask Don't Tell

Those were supposed to be "fixed later". Neither of them have been. Don't fall for that shit again.

[babylonsister]

32. How about Medicare? Tell us about it , all that history and all. nt

[Sebastian Doyle]

35. You want to go back to 1965, when Democrats voted like Democrats?

Works for me. Where's the DeLorean?

[babylonsister]

36. Bottom line, it works now despite all the rethug naysayers. It took years,

but it works.

And the Dems voted the right way then, too.

[unkachuck]

33. we'll get a 'public option'....

....but it won't be a REAL Public Option....Medicare is a Public Option....the scum that votes against a REAL Public Option are also anti-Medicare....they'll be coming to 'fix' Medicare next....

....stand firm for a REAL Public Option and reject all imitations....

[eridani]

40. It it is delayed until 2013, it is useless.

Just let people buy into Medicare, dammit!

[scheming daemons]

58. Really? Why?

If it kicks in in 2013, it certainly isn't useless to people starting at that time.


We've waited nearly 100 years for it.... waiting 4 more doesn't make it "useless".

[depakid]

41. Never underestimate the extent of corruption in the US Senate

nor the spinelessness of Harry Reid.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

42. As I would expect the fail junkies are swarming.

It's become amusing at this point.

[babylonsister]

43. I think it sucks myself. But thanks for saying that. nt

[BlooInBloo]

53. Yep. That's ok - better me than a nice person.

:P

[Odin2005]

44. Wold on tight, we are gonna get it done!

[ShortnFiery]

45. We've been SUCKERED into more Corporate Welfare. Screwed again without a robust public ...

option. We're better off with NOTHING than a MANDATE !

[bhikkhu]

47. At this point, I think its a matter of how much collateral damage

That is, how many corporate-owned dems and repugs have to go down lying fighting against it.

Personally, I think the end result (besides a long overdue renewed focus on public health care in this country) will be the awareness of the hypocrisy of the supposedly "compassionate conservative" (haven't heard that in awhile) RW in trying to protect the profits of the industry at the expense of 99% of the country.

[BlooInBloo]

52. Good point.

[emulatorloo]

54. Excellent point n/t

[Swamp Rat]

48. k&r

[Toasterlad]

49. Bookmarked.

[BlooInBloo]

51. Well-played.

:)

[ismnotwasm]

55. I hope so

I work in one of two hospitals in my area that take 80% of all so called "charity care"

Charity care is including more and more folks who lost jobs and insurance. I work in transplant, and more than one person has come back in rejection because they couldn't afford the medication anymore. We try to have a safety net, but it's not alway effective.

We see people (as foretold by many)waiting on symptoms until they HAVE to go to the ER. We've seen advanced cancer cases like that--lived with pain until there was no denying something was very wrong-- and although I can't swear every one of them was because of a human being having health insurance or not, the end result is the same.

In nursing, we know, and we've always known that effective health care starts with prevention and prevention starts with education. We try to educate the public on this and that. Thing is, we also know that people don't learn effectively in high stress situations.

Worrying about losing your house or having food on your table when you or your loved one is sick is very high stress. That stress starts before illness, before catastrophe. A public option, the assurance that you can go to see a health care provider when you're sick, would lessen that stress considerably. It's ultimately cost effective as is all preventative care.

[Orsino]

56. For a given value of "win."

Let's make it the best it can be.

[redqueen]

57. All the pessimism makes it hard to see the good parts.

Yes... corporate welfare... I know.

But... no more denials due to pre-existing conditions? No more recission? Maybe I'm just easy to please, but those seem like some major victories to me. And will I give up the fight for statewide single payer, just cause we get this reform bill passed? Hah. As if.

[BlooInBloo]

60. They are major victories. And a public option is even bigger, even if imperfect...

just so long as it isn't absolutely craptacular.

[BlooInBloo]

61. Nice to see Maddow agreeing with me tonight.

EDIT: I heart people who know words like "vituperative".

[and-justice-for-all]

62. Its is fucking disgusting when OUR Government...

answers to private business!!! WHAT THE FUCK!! I AM SICK OF IT!!!!

[subcomhd]

63. k&r you are right. the po won't be all it should but

it is a (BIG) first step toward single payer. medicare was a mess at first and now it is so good even the t-baggers like it so much they have cognitive dissonance with the fact it's "socialized" government-run medicine.

[BlooInBloo]

64. The thing on Maddow tonight about chairmanships was very nice.