Why is this V.T. incident not considered a terrorist attack?

[Virginia Dare]

Because a bomb wasn't used as a weapon? Because the perp apparenlty wasn't a radical muslim fundamentalist?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Because there is no apparent political motive?

You know, "terrorism" isn't just a really bad crime, right?

Just checking.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

2. how do they know there wasn't a political motive?

who decided that?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. How do you know there was?

Isn't that a bit like calling it an arson spree?

After all, we don't know if he also set things on fire too.

:shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

19. I don't know

has there been more info?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

31. Exactly.

There's no reason to suspect terrorism, so why call it terrorism?

[Virginia Dare]

41. What if the shooter was of Arab descent?

do you think they would be so quick to dismiss "terrorism"?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

42. Unlikely.

But if what you're trying to say is that the media's racist, it's kind of a round-a-bout way of doing it.

:shrug:

[Virginia Dare]

43. No, I'm trying to say the media has brainwashed us...n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Brainwashed into what?

Are you saying this really is an act of terrorism, and the media's brainwashed us into thinking it isn't?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

50. Oklahoma?

OK fed building blown up by a 'white man' I think this was considered 'terrorism'
Yet Va Tech was just a 'massacre' according to the media hmmmm!

[ButterflyBlood]

63. Because the OKC bombing was politically motivated

We have no evidence this is.

[Virginia Dare]

74. I'm saying we have no idea what it was yet...

but they are already ruling out terrorism, do we know any of the motivations behind the bombings in Iraq? Everything is just assumed based on the particular situation.

[Orsino]

62. When a political motive becomes apparent...

...then we can start calling it terrorism.

[Buzz Clik]

3. I agree with the title line of your post... no political motive.

[Virginia Dare]

75. You know that for a fact?...n/t

[Virginia Dare]

26. It doesn't have to be political, and it doesn't have to be against a government

even though it usually is, it can be ideological and it can be against a specific entity.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

30. Alright then...

what's your difference between an act of terrorism, and a murder/suicide?

[Virginia Dare]

38. Simple..

in Iraq it's an act of terrorism, in the U.S., it's a crime.

[onenote]

34. Okay, I can accept that: political or ideological

Again, there is no evidence at this point suggesting that the VA Tech shooter was motivated by any particular ideological objective.

[Virginia Dare]

39. No, but they're already saying it's not terrorism..

when in fact they don't know what the motivation of this person was, as far as we know.

[onenote]

56. i suspect they know more than is being made public

[onenote]

4. because it apparently was not motivated by any political agenda

Most people consider terrorism to be the illegitimate use of force to target innocent people to achieve a political objective.

[Whoa_Nelly]

10. And children are handcuffed and taken away from their schools for committing

acts of terrorism? :shrug:

Seems there really is no definitive line between an act of violence and an act of terrorism.

Or, maybe there is, with the definitive line being if it serves the purpose of the person bringing charges to the act.

:shrug:

[onenote]

can you explain further what you are referring to?

what incident are you describing?

[Whoa_Nelly]

32. Some examples

http://www.overcriminalized.com/studies/2004.01_ZT2.html
<snip>
A 12-year-old with hyperactivity disorder told students ahead of him in the lunch line to leave some potatoes, or “I’m going to get you.” The principal called the police and the Louisiana boy was arrested for making a terrorist threat. He spent two weeks in jail awaiting a hearing.

http://hiddenmysteries.net/geeklog/article.php?story=20070401020938757
(Note: Not chearged with an act of terror, but at age 5, was charged with a felony and two misdemeanors after throwing tantrum in class)

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/schools_13_yr_old_arrested_for_writing_on_desk.htm
(aslo not cherged with act of terrorism, but arressted for writing "Okay" on her schoo desk)

As I said...there seems to be no real definitive line between acts of violence, acts of terrorism...and apparently "Zero Tolerance" in schools has taken on a whole new meaning in the last several years.

[rinsd]

54. You are talking about two different things

For #1 Its what you would be charged with if you threatened to kill someone. Issuing a terroristic threat has been the law for quite some time now.

#2 & #3 seem t be more police overreation combined with th dreaded zero tolerance policy.

I haven't seen anyone try to qualify these acts under terrorism.

[onenote]

58. exactly

[HughBeaumont]

6. Because a "furriner" didn't do it.

Only "furriners" can be "terrsts".

It's the same reason the DC snipers, Anthrax mailings and this aren't considered terrorist attacks, even though they are. They want to keep this grand ol' "Bewsh keeps me safe" Repuke Myth of "No attacks on American soil since 9/11".

[stirlingsliver]

11. Tim McVeigh Was A Terrorist

Tim McVeigh was a terrorist.

So was that guy who bombed the Atlanta Olympics and an abortion clinic in the South.

So is George Bush.

[HughBeaumont]

17. Absolutely. This needs to be screamed.

Especially that last highly evident point.

[onenote]

14. the anthrax mailings and dc sniper attacks should be classified as terrorism

But there is no evidence to support putting that label on the VA Tech shootings at this time. And it has nothing to do with who did the shooting. It has to do with the apparent (as far as we know now) absence of any political objective.

[uppityperson]

21. What makes those "terrorism"? Serious question.

Did the DC sniper attacks have a political objective? I don't remember any. The anthrax attacks had a bit more, looking at who got the letters, but still, today seems like the DC sniper. If 1 is terrorism, so is the other. Not to argue, really, but have been wondering this also and the DC sniper attacks are a good comparison, thanks.

[onenote]

23. The snipers somewhat delusional political agenda came out at trial

During the trial, Malvo described a three-part plan, which supposedly involved recruiting a small army of alienated youths to mount coordinated terrorist attacks on the entire United States. How exactly the shootings were supposed to advance this plan was something I never quite figured out.

[uppityperson]

35. I thought they were covering up killing the 1 ex-(wife?).

Killed her, or were going to kill her, so went on an extended shooting tour to make it look like terrorism rather than simply murdering someone he was mad at. I could be wrong, have had that happen before.

[stirlingsliver]

46. My Recollection As Well.

I don't recall any political agenda being discussed at trial.

I do recall John Mohammed representing himself and making and rambling on and on.

[onenote]

57. Link to malvo testimony

http://cbs11tv.com/national/topstories_story_143111724.html

Was he lied to? Maybe? Was Mohammed delusional? Probably.

[Balbus]

45. Okay, I give up.

What the hell is a "furriners"?

[stirlingsliver]

51. Foreigners

"furriners" is merikan for "foreigners".

(Don't you just hate yourself for asking?? ;-))

[Balbus]

53. I've never seen that before in my life.

And I hope to never see it again.

[Zynx]

70. Actually, a "furriner" appears to have done it. Chinese national.

Which also means he never should have had guns.

[jody]

7. #2 Because the perp apparenlty wasn't a radical muslim fundamentalist. n/t

[mike_c]

8. I think you hit the answer in your second sentence....

If this guy had worn a keffiyeh there'd be an entirely different spin on the event.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Because terrorist have brown skin. DUH!

[stirlingsliver]

13. It Appears That This Terrorist Was Asian

I'm not sure why you would say that terrorist have brown skin.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Because this is America. And to Americans, terrorists have brown skin. DUH!

Oooohh! An asian terrorist! I foresee all manner of fun new developments (movies, political, military) to come from THAT!

[HughBeaumont]

16. Well, truth be known, the DC snipers had brown skin . . .

and I consider that as much of a terrorist attack as anything. It's personal with me because my sister and nephew live in Montgomery County.

I think it's because Repukes only think foreign people can be considered "terrorists". If they live here, it doesn't count for some odd reason. It's the same logic that lets a guy responsible for 650k Iraqi deaths, 6300 American citizen and soldier deaths, and thousands of Afghan deaths off the hook for terrorism, even though he is.

[onenote]

20. I agree with you, although the political agenda of the snipers wasn't known

until after they were caught and went to trial.

[stirlingsliver]

25. Political Agenda? DC Snipers?

I didn't realize the DC snipers had a political agenda.

I thought they did it because they really wanted to kill the wife of the older sniper.

[onenote]

28. I should have said "alleged" political agenda

During the trial, there was testimony from one of the snipers about a plan to recurit additional young men to be trained to commit attacks. It was all sort of sketchy.

[aquart]

27. What a worthless, sloppy response.

Really helpful.

[Atman]

12. Because they didn't think of it in time.

I watched the news unfolding this morning. Just a couple dead at first. No terra there, right? But when the full scope unfolded, it was too late for RoveCo to put the spin machine in motion and ratchet up the terra meme.

.

[MadBadger]

15. We dont link Terrorism with gun violence

[underpants]

22. How do you bill for that?

:shrug:

[aquart]

24. Mass murder is not terrorism just because it frightens you!

Jesus H. Christ. Terrorism is a specific political tool.

Mass murder is just carnage. Sometimes mass murder IS terrorism. But then the choices are made for political reasons. But not even the mass murders going on in Iraq right now are called terrorism even though they are absolutely political.

Generally, terrorism is a tool used by a small, politically powerless group on a group that does have power. Its goal is to alter the balance of that power. The refugee Palestinians used terrorism to gain leverage against Israel which at least had nationhood and an army. Clinton says terrorism doesn't work but it got the Palestinians money and costly embassies in 96 nations and a place at the UN. Which is why other powerless groups are going for it rather than, say, trying the Gandhi method.

This is also why BushCo intimidation is not generally referred to as terrorism even though its goal is to maintain power by frightening the populace into accepting whatever it chooses to do.

In Iraq, the murders are being carried on by competing groups EACH trying to intimidate and grab power to the detriment or exclusion of the others. We call that civil war.

Indiscriminate misuse of terminology does not contribute to the discourse.

[gollygee]

29. It would depend on the motive

I heard it was over a girl? If so, then it's someone who felt bad and was unstable. This was a terrible tragedy no matter the motivation.

Terrorism is anything violent done with the intent of terrifying people. If people are terrified as a result of an incident, that doesn't mean it was done for that purpose.

[stray cat]

33. Because it appeared to target specific people instead of random

More like a mass murder with specific targets. Terrorism generally implies an overarching political type motive - murder just wants specific people dead....

[Virginia Dare]

44. I have not heard of anybody being specifically targeted..

it appears at this point that most of the people were killed at random.

[ngant17]

36. Because Virginia is a gun-happy state

and you can buy handguns in local flea-markets there without much trouble at all.

Also because God, Guns and Guts - that's what made America free.

Or because the rightwing and the NRA know that this incident in Virginia would not have happened if every VT student was permitted to carry loaded handguns in their school backpacks and their holster-belts.

Because guns don't kill people. People do.

Because this is the sort of logic that is in fashion in the White House these days.

[murloc]

37. Doesnt seem to be a religous or political motive

Which seems to be what defines terrorist crimes.

If it turns out the guy was kiling for Allah, the Republicans, Budha or the Whigs, I think most folks will call it terrorism.

[rec_report]

40. Right, only if it's a 'Democrat' terrorist attack or an al CIAduh attack. n/t

[Rex]

48. They don't know intent yet.

nt

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

49. Because It Wasn't Terrorism. n/t

[MGD]

60. If not terrorism than it was an outright overt act of war against something.

Perhaps the school, perhaps the system. This was definitely more than a simple shooting however.

[onenote]

66. "act of war"? no. act of an emotionally disturbed, deranged mind: probably

[MGD]

71. In his emotionally disturbed and deranged mind, he had declared war against someone or something.

This is no simple murder carried out by a typical nut job, it's a powerful statement of some kind. There are very very very deep rooted motivational forces at work when someone picks up a gun and, with complete disregard for his own life, commences to kill as many people as he can in the shortest time possible. This is more than simple homicidal mania.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

52. What is they DID consider it terrorism

I suppose we'd have a bunch of posts whining about that too.

[negativenihil]

55. white, christian != terrorist

:sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[ButterflyBlood]

68. The killer wasn't white

n/t

[MGD]

59. I agree and I, furthermore, suspect that there was an underlying political motive.

[onenote]

67. please share: what political motive do you suspect and based on what?

[MGD]

69. It's difficult to say. I just don't think someone could go on a rampage like this

without deep seated, possibly even subconscious political motivations. This is obviously more than simple murder spurred by the usu sal motives, it's a statement of some kind and statements tend to have political motivations. I've no doubt that an element of insanity contributed synergistically to the eventual outcome as well and certainly some event or events occurred which triggered this psychotic breakdown. This is, IMHO, the psychic equivalent of a perfect storm.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

61. I suppose we don't really know that it wasn't.

However, I don't see any reason to think that it was, either.

[ContraBass Black]

64. Because the killer just shot people and left it at that.

It's called murder.

[ButterflyBlood]

65. Because it's not covered under the definition of terrorism

Which is violence done for a political motive. Same reason Columbine wasn't considered a terrorist attack.

If someone does a robbery and kills someone in the process, it's not considered a terrorist attack either.

[Virginia Dare]

73. To my knowledge, we don't have any idea what the killer's motive was yet..n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

76. Yes. That's why we can't label it terrorism.

Perhaps a POSSIBLE terrorist attack, but until we have actual PROOF it was politically motivated, we can not term it terrorism.

And I believe the motive has already been likely explained, that he was looking for his ex who jilted him.

[nadinbrzezinski]

72. Becasue we do not dare say it... we do not dare say it

may be terrorism or a symptom of a very sick society

and we want the quick fix

Here is a thread I started on this subject earlier in the day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=667952&mesg_id=667952