Elizabeth Smart says abductor raped her daily

[Kadie]

Elizabeth Smart says abductor raped her daily
By JENNIFER DOBNER, Associated Press Writer

Thursday, October 1, 2009


(10-01) 10:08 PDT Salt Lake City (AP) --

Elizabeth Smart says she was raped repeatedly each day after she was abducted from her bedroom seven years ago and told she would be killed if she yelled or tried to escape.

Smart testified Thursday morning in U.S. District Court in Salt Lake City as part of a competency proceedings for the man charged in her 2002 kidnapping.

Brian David Mitchell has twice been found incompetent for trial in state court. Mitchell and his estranged wife were found with Smart nine months after she disappeared from her Salt Lake City home.

A judge ruled earlier this week that testimony from Smart, now 21, is relevant to Mitchell's mental competency.

Smart testified that Mitchell was motivated by sex and used religion to get what he wanted.



Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/10/01/national/a074632D96.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0ShrchkPb

[AngryAmish]

1. So Whoopi, do you call this rape-rape?

[goclark]

3. I heard Joy say that Whoopi said "sorry"

for her words.

I missed the show.

[rvablue]

18. She didn't say "sorry."

She only put a caveat on her comments. Her defense was that he was convicted, via the plea deal, of "unlawful sex with a minor" and not "rape."

So, she buttressed her disgusting equivocation, she didn't apologize.

[The Backlash Cometh]

26. I understand the point she was trying to make. But this is a topic which

you only get one chance to get right.

[goclark]

47. Thanks for the clarification nt

[madokie]

5. No I bet but after what she said the other day about the pedophile polanski

I say whoopi is soon to be a has been. I used to like here but I'll never be able to see her in that same light again. screw her, not literally or not by me anyway.

[pengillian101]

65. Past tense in my opinion.

"has been"

[goclark]

2. Why isn't this all over the news or did I miss something?

[LisaL]

58. She is testifying at his competency hearing.

Clearly she wants him to be put on trial.

[RB TexLa]

71. Three words: White in danger.

That stops any other news. Especially if the gender and age are also what the media cares about.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Sort of figured this. Not surprising, but still awful.

[snooper2]

6. Death Penalty...

nt

[wuushew]

12. Why?

If he is mentally ill and incompetent to stand trial I don't understand the "logic" of execution.

Wasn't Lennie's death in Of Mice and Men the great tragedy of the book?

[mitchum]

23. No, George extended mercy to Lenny by preventing him from...

being tortured/lynched. He spared him from torment.

[BlooInBloo]

57. Mercy and tragedy are not mutually exclusive.

[mitchum]

70. True, but I was insinuating that Mitchell should be relieved of the "torment"...

of his "mental illness"
He is a scumbag predator.

[moriah]

62. The death penalty is too easy.

We currently have a method of punishment that is not considered cruel and unusual (even though I think it is harsher than death).

Supermax.

He will not be able to hurt another child again, he won't get raped himself in prison, and he'll have to spend the rest of his life knowing he will never have however many wives he has to have to get into that tier of heaven he wants in.

[Zywiec]

7. Elizabeth Smart said she recovered quickly because she forgave her abductors

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,700234139,00.html

[varelse]

72. Yes, but she still wants justice done.

But she said Mitchell — who has not been certified competent to stand trial — deserves a life sentence because if he's released, "he'd come back after me immediately. I think he knew exactly what he was doing."

[bluestateguy]

8. If he was a "great artist" there would be plenty of apologists for this asshole

nt

[Flaneur]

9. Brian Mitchell was a childhood acquaintance of mine in Salt Lake City.

His mother and my mother were friends. His father was a weirdo vegetarian Mormon theologian. I suspect he was crazy, and Brian inherited that craziness, although he seemed normal as a kid. He also got heavily into LSD as a young man. Now, he's batshit insane with full-blown religious delusions.

[Cleita]

11. This is probably why they are holding an incompetency hearing instead

of throwing the book at him for kidnapping and raping a child. They suspect he's mentally incapacitated or whatever the polite word for bat shit crazy is these days.

[Common Sense Party]

13. Who was his father?

[Name removed]

10. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wolfgangmo]

14. She was a child and she was kidnapped

It is likely that she was raped.

At the very least she was held as a prisoner for 9 months. No matter how you slice this she was heavily traumatized.

She has my sympathies.

[tabatha]

15. She was traumatized.

It is easier to bury it than face it.

The one more actively remembers, the more it stays with you. Rather like studying.
Best forget, and replace it with better memories.

[LeftinOH]

16. The (not very) Smart parents bear a tiny bit of responsibility for Amy's kidnapping:

They "helped" unemployed/homeless people by BRINGING THEM TO THEIR HOME and paying them for odd jobs..

"Mrs Smart and some of the children had met him downtown as he was asking for spare change. He was clean, soft-spoken, well-groomed, Caucasian, 5'8″ tall, had dark hair, and was "about 45 years old". It seemed clear that "Emmanuel" was not his real name, but had something to do with his self-proclaimed calling as a minister to the homeless. He worked at the Smarts' home for five hours, helping on the roof and raking leaves."

If you're gonna "help"- then direct them to a shelter, or give them money..but NEVER TAKE THEM TO YOUR HOME OR LET THEM KNOW WHERE YOU LIVE- mental instability is common among many homeless people.

[Common Sense Party]

28. Elizabeth, not Amy

[Rebubula]

29. What assholes...

...for being charitable.


Sometimes the things that I read here are mind blowing. It is not that I disagree that they should have been more careful - but your suggestion lampoons the liberal ideal.

There was a Doonesbury strip many years ago where Zonker, Mike and Mark were discussing what they were going to dress up as at a 70s theme party. Zonker said he was going as a negro (words from the strip, not mine) and Mark said that no one would talk to him. Mike said 'Ahhh..there will be plenty of people there as liberals' - to which Mark replied 'Yeah, but they will not talk to him, but will just give him money'.

Sometimes, you have to teach a man to build a fire....

[Common Sense Party]

30. Exactly. I thought it was progressive to help out the less-fortunate,

to believe that all people are basically good, and to try to help out where possible.

[roguevalley]

43. helping the down and out is living your religion. too bad. they had

a good intention but you know that the road to hell is paved with them.

[LanternWaste]

52. worn out bumper-stickers and bite-sized philosophies.

"road to hell is paved with..." worn out bumper-stickers and bite-sized philosophies.

[roguevalley]

60. perhaps, but truisms last because they are true.

[cap]

45. my dad was homeless during the Great Depression

and he went from door to door asking for work.... There are people coming to my house asking for work today.

[SoCalDem]

53. especially when you have young nubile daughters

:grr:

Mrs. Smart must be mute..funny how Weird Dad-Smart never lets her say anything..

In most child abductions, Dads are the "me too" persons, and Mom takes center-stage. and in fundamentalist religions (Mormonism included) the MEN are always front¢er protecting (not so well) their property (wimminfolk)

[helderheid]

17. Local coverage from the Salt Lake Tribune:

http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_13461174?source=rv

"...Smart described the brutal sexual assaults she was forced to endure at the hands of Mitchell, three to four times a day throughout her captivity.
She testified that Mitchell used religion as an excuse to justify having sex with her. In the early days of her kidnapping, he kept her leg bolted to a cable attached to two trees to keep her from escaping, she said.
Mitchell forced Smart to take drugs and alcohol to lower her resistance to his sexual advances, she said. He showed her pornography and told her she needs to "be humble" to him, she said.
She said Mitchell once forced her to drink too much alcohol and she became sick. He made her lay face down in her vomit for the entire night so Smart would understand "the true state" she was in, she testified.
"Anything I showed resistance or hesitation to, he would turn to me and say, 'The Lord has commanded you to do this, you have to experience the lowest form of humanity to experience the highest.' "
Smart said she tried to fight Mitchell's sexual attacks once, when she bit him. He told her he would never have sex with her again and that she would be "miserable" because of it, but he then continued to rape her, Smart testified...."

[Kadie]

20. How horrifying.

:cry:

[Romulox]

19. If he's competent enough to threaten the victim if she tells, he's competent to stand trial.

Anyone who tries to evade detention is, by definition, not legally insane, imo.

[redqueen]

21. I'm pretty sure that's not just your opinion.

I'm fairly certain that is part of the insanity defense in our legal system... if you understand it's wrong, you're not insane enough to use the defense. The only other way to use it is to say you were unable to control your behavior.

However, I'm not sure what is required in order to determine whether someone is competent to stand trial.

[Romulox]

25. Perhaps not just my opinion. :)

But also not explicit in the various insanity standards.

Think of it as rule derived from the various insanity standards that exist. Attempts at evasion (including threats to witnesses) tend to strongly negative the general standard that the defendant lacked "substantial capacity either to appreciate the criminality of his conduct or to conform his conduct to the requirements of the law."

http://topics.law.cornell.edu/wex/insanity_defense

[LisaL]

59. He is singing in court. They had to remove him for her testimony.

I fail to see how what he does in court proves his incompetence to stand trial, however. It only makes sense for him to sing if he doesn't want to stand trial.

[bullwinkle428]

22. Contrary to one of the messages upthread, I'm sure she goes through her own

personal hell every day of her life, and will probably continue to do so until the day she dies, regardless of what she may have said to the press.

[Kadie]

24. I'm sure she does.

I am completely shocked by what I have read in this thread. I wish I hadn't posted this story. But I am so furious. These poor kids are put through hell.

[mimitabby]

27. here's another article

I just read the rest of the comments on here. What kind of creeps and whack jobs are you, fellow DU'ers posting such nasty things about this poor kid that got kidnapped? If she was Muslim what would you say? or Christian, or Athiest? What the hell does her religion matter in this discussion?
i have nothing but respect for her, trying to get her life back, and testifying in court about things that give her nightmares, probably to this day.

here's another article about how the trial is going:


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705333713/Smart-Mitchell-a-master-manipulator.html

[Thickasabrick]

31. Wow.....that article is amazing. She wanted him muzzled so he

couldn't say anything and have to listen to her. In this instance I think they should have honored the victim's request.

This is one strong young woman.

[Common Sense Party]

32. Wow! Thanks, mods!

I've never seen one humongous train wreck of an anti-religious thread hi-jack just deleted like that.

Cool.

[SidneyCarton]

33. +1

Cheers to the mods.

[Kadie]

39. Yes. Thanks Mods.

That was a mess.

[Berry Cool]

50. Glad I missed it.

It's amazing the level of intolerance there is on DU when it comes to one subject...religion. The religion haters and the fundie haters come out of the woodwork like clockwork when subjected to certain stories.

I have no love for intolerant fundies of any stripe, but nobody, and I mean nobody, deserves to be subjected to what Elizabeth Smart was subjected to. I don't care if you're Christian, Mormon, born-again wackjob, Muslim, Buddhist or atheist. Sheesh.

[bermudat]

34. Oh God, I didn't need to read that.

I suspected as much. I read Oprah, Barbara Walters, etc are jostling to get

the first interview with Jaycee Duggans. And basically you know all they really

want to hear is how many ways and how many times she was sexually assaulted.

Am really disappointed in Oprah, I thought she was above such frak.

[bigwillq]

35. Was it Roman?

:shrug:

[Jennicut]

36. Elizabeth has my respect for simply telling off Nancy Grace once.

In July 2006, self-proclaimed victim's rights advocate and pundit Nancy Grace interviewed Elizabeth Smart and repeatedly asked her for information about her experience, in violation of a prior agreement that Elizabeth would not discuss her ordeal with Grace. In response to the questioning, Elizabeth politely asked Grace to stop and stated, "I really am here to support the bill and not to go into what -- you know, what happened to me." When Grace persisted, asking Elizabeth what it was like to see out of a burqa her abductors forced her to wear, Elizabeth replied, "I'm really not going to talk about this at this time. ...to be frankly honest, I really don't appreciate you bringing all this up." Grace then sarcastically apologized and appeared to be admonishing Elizabeth for not wanting to help other crime victims, but did not pursue further questioning about the incident, directing her questions to Senator Orrin Hatch for the remainder of the interview. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_Smart_kidnapping

She was brave, getting up there and talking about what happened to her.

[Hepburn]

37. I said already once today and cannot say it enough: Nancy Grace is a POS. n/t

[Jennicut]

40. She really takes the cake as one the biggest, most annoying POS's on tv.

[Common Sense Party]

41. And that's tough competition, because there are MANY big, annoying

POS's on cable TV.

[hamsterjill]

44. I remember seeing that

And was amazed at the grace and resolve of Elizabeth.

While I may not agree with the religious principles of the Smart family, I do believe the family's closeness was certainly something that aided Elizabeth in healing as well as she has - - - understanding that the healing is a continuing process forever.

[Le Taz Hot]

38. And I thought the article was disturbing . . .

then I read the comments. Holy goddess! I think I need a shower.

So sad in that, because this has YET to go to trial, it's constantly looming over her head and it's virtually impossible to get on with her life. Those of you who have been victims of violent crime know what I'm talking about. It's like you're violated by the perpetrator and violated again by the system.

What a brave young woman she's been throughout all this! I'm sending positive vibes your way, Elizabeth.

[Ilsa]

56. I feel for her as well. I'm surprised she's been able to testify. It is

horrible that she's had to wait so long. I can't help but wonder what her personal life is like. I was stranger-raped, but much older when it happened. I can't imagine the pain it would have cost me if I had been her age.

[helderheid]

42. I saw them all in Sandy on State street the day she was found. I thought it was a small group of

hippies and thought how odd to see that in Sandy. It wasn't until they said they'd found her that I realized it was them I'd seen.

[Are_grits_groceries]

46. I have a lot of respect for her.

This can't be easy to say the least, but she is determined that they be brought to justice. I hope she really is doing as well as she appears to be.

[helderheid]

48. She's AMAZING.

[Raine]

68. I do too

her parents must be proud of her courage.

[Odin2005]

49. Death penalty!

:grr:

[moriah]

64. The death penalty is too good for this SOB.

He doesn't deserve the mercy of a quick death.

Supermax. Let him live the rest of his life knowing what he did and that he will never get to that highest level of heaven he wants in because he doesn't have enough wives.

[SoCalDem]

51. Did anyone really think she wasn't?

her loony dad is loonier than I thought, if he didn't "know" this already..without being told.

I'm just sorry that this is even public.. :(

We all don't need the sordid details:(

[Common Sense Party]

54. When did Ed Smart ever say he didn't know his daughter had been

assaulted?

And to answer your original question: Yes, one DU poster who had an entire huge subthread deleted for REAL looniness, didn't think Elizabeth was raped, and went so far as to blame her and suggest she had it coming because of her religion.

[SoCalDem]

55. He said today that he heard things today that she had not told him

and he was shocked.. I was happy to see her rescued, and felt sad that her parents invited creepy guys into their home ..

closed case..

I hope she gets away and lives a happy life :)

[moriah]

66. How many little girls want to tell their daddy all of the details of such a thing?

I have a feeling she told her therapist a whole lot more than she would have felt comfortable telling her father. I'm sure he knew she had been raped, but she might not have told him how often or what was said while it happened.

Nor would I blame her.

I'm proud of her for being able to stand up and tell her story now. Much better to say it in court where a judge will be able to use the information to make sure the monster never sees the light of day again than the way Nancy Grace tried to make her spill the details on her show.

[SoCalDem]

67. I wish everyone would leave her alone..

She needs to drop-out and start her life the way she wants it to be..not the way some "news-person" wants it to be..

This is the one thing about the whole Polanski thing that gripes me.. the person he violated, is being violated all over again..in the media....this time with her kids being able to read all the gory details of Mom's life.. not fair at all..

[moriah]

69. I agree, and there was absolutely no good reason for us to ever know her name.

For Elizabeth, the reason her identity had been released was obvious -- finding her was more important than shielding her identity. For Polanski's victim? No good reason at all for us to know her name, let alone see her pictures as she looks today.

From what I saw, everybody in the media but that bitch Nancy Grace tried to respect Elizabeth's privacy. But insofar as her choosing to testify against her rapist, I see that as very different from the nosy press. I'm sure if she did not want to testify that they would have respected her wishes and attempted to get him declared competent to stand trial without her testimony. It is absolutely terrifying for me to contemplate getting up on the stand about what happened to me -- I admire her for being able to do it.

Her speaking out in court may actually make a difference -- hopefully the man doesn't get to sit in a psychiatric ward the rest of his life, but instead will be in real prison. But despite what Nancy seemed to imply about Elizabeth's refusal to discuss what happened to her on national TV, hearing the gory details on TV would have not done anyone any good, other victims least of all. It was said in court, where if the gory details are going to be said at least they are being said for a purpose other than to appease the mass media's desire to know and say everything (and the more horrific it is, the better they seem to like it).

[MilesColtrane]

61. Would solitary confinement for the rest of his life be considered cruel and unusual?

I vote no.

[moriah]

63. I think it's crueler than the death penalty, which is why I am against the DP.

I think it's the strongest punishment we have right now that the courts have not yet ruled cruel and unusual.