13-year old stoned in Somalia

[ezgoingrl]

The first reports were that Aisha Ibrahim Kuhulow was 23 year old, but her father now confirms for Amnesty International that she was only 13.

The girl’s young age, combined with the fact that she herself contacted the Shabab-militia who controls the town, in order to report the rape, failed to protect her from being sentenced to death by the Islamists for breach of Islamic law in having sex outside of marriage.

This child suffered a terrible death as demanded by the armed opposition forces that control Kismayo, says David Copeman who is responsible for Amnesty’s Somalia-department, to the news office, AP.

More at link: http://www.aftenbladet.no/english/940794/13-year_old_stoned_to_death_in_Somalia.html

[tblue]

1. We should bring all the women here as refugees. This pisses me off.

And the rapists? What happens to them?

[Bobbieo]

14. Women, cover thyselves lest you tempt men. What a bullshit attitude!!!!

Those bastards have no will power - weak, sniveling sobs!!!

[Hannah Bell]

21. uh, you might have missed the part about it being a war zone, in your righteous feminist anger.

& you might want to investigate the US role in that state of affairs.

[Bobbieo]

24. Aw shit!!! Now you are being logical!!!

[Hannah Bell]

25. dirty job, i know.

[Statistical]

33. So executing children is a warzone is ok?

I am missing the relevance of why it being a war zone matters.

Saying a rape victim committed a crime is ALWAYS WRONG.
Executing said rape victim by stoning is ALWAYS WRONG.
Firing upon an unarmed child to ensure said execution isn't stopped is ALWAYS WRONG.

[Hannah Bell]

36. Fomenting war: always wrong. & higher death toll. so why don't you spend some of your outrage

on your own damn government, fomenting war in somalia for the past 50 years & guilty of more murders than any two-bit militia in the neighborhood.

The story is from 2008, did you miss that bit? It's being re-run for the anti-iran, anti-muslim propaganda offensive.

[lastliberalintexas]

69. Yes, but I can multi-task

And I was anti-extremist religious nuts of all stripes before it was popular. The fundies of all religions seem to treat women and children worse than rabid dogs.

[conturnedpro09]

71. That poor girl sure is lucky to have a friend like you!

:sarcasm:

Some people are just sick.

[Hannah Bell]

79. phony, cynical appropriation of "feminism" to sell war. yes, some people

are sick.

[whopis01]

65. It's more like "Accuse a man of rape and this is what will happen to you"

There are a lot of happy rapists there tonight.

[maxsolomon]

48. you should visit some areas of Seattle and Minneapolis

there are tons of Somali women here with their children already.

[imdjh]

67. After what happened in Minneapolis, I don't think so. Thank you. nt

[emilyg]

2. No words.

:cry:

[Bobbieo]

18. A curse on the fundamentalist Taliban - May your male offspring be born sterile!!!

[Jeep789]

3. Despicable! nt

[UndertheOcean]

4. Religion of Peace strikes again.

nothing more needs to be said.

[Hannah Bell]

37. slimy. US in iraq: american democracy strikes again. nothing more needs to be said.

since you like the broad brush so well.

[UndertheOcean]

41. If there is a "Religion" that deserves such a broad brush , it is that one

I should know , I was born into it . And escaping from its cultist webs was one of the hardest things in my life . Therefore forgive me if I refuse to take the PC position , or have little tolerance for the Apologists .

[Hannah Bell]

43. & there are plenty of folks born into it who feel differently. also different variations on the

theme. so forgive me if i don't take your experience or beliefs as the last word on the subject.

[UndertheOcean]

44. Because they are brainwashed by it , nothing more , nothing less

and continuously try to find excuses for its faults .

[Hannah Bell]

80. and this is different from the way your own belief system was formed - how, exactly?

[troubledamerican]

73. It's a RED FLAG when DUers parrot FOX News talking-points about "Muslims" or anyone.

Too bad your need for personal catharsis leads you to have a blind spot about justice:

First the mob came for a Somali girl.

Next the mob came for "Muzzlims" and "Sand-n****rs".

Then when the mob came for me, I said, "Hey, I was with you on the Muzzlims" but it was too late. I was a dumbass.

[Hannah Bell]

81. +1

[imdjh]

86. So when some guy rapes you we'll all just say, "Oh well, the US is at war and that's bad." nt

[armyowalgreens]

5. Are these people stupid?

Jesus fucking christ. I mean seriously? God damnit.

[BlooInBloo]

10. Nah. Religious.

[TwilightGardener]

6. Just barbaric.

[Hannah Bell]

22. bullshit.

[TwilightGardener]

34. Oh, you're right, perfectly acceptable.

:wtf:

[Shell Beau]

45. How is that bullshit? Is it not barbaric to stone a 13 year old girl?

[scheming daemons]

51. Wow... you don't consider this to be barbaric?

[conturnedpro09]

72. Can't let a horrific real life story like this...

penetrate your no-matter-what-the-US-is-worse mentality, can we? Remind me to introduce you to my old friend, Human Rights.

Seriously, though--just let yourself be as angry as fundamentalist Islam as you are at fundy Christians, it's perfectly fine. Opposing the same people that Republicans probably oppose won't make you spontaneously combust, trust me. If the funny man in your avatar tells you to think otherwise, then that's your issue.

[Kievan Rus]

7. Christ. This is worse than what the Klan does.

[lapfog_1]

8. This is a story from 3/11/2008

and was discussed here then.

It was a horrible story... but doesn't need to be rehashed now.

[ezgoingrl]

11. Sorry, I didn't see the date.

I apologize.

[tuvor]

12. "It was a horrible story... but doesn't need to be rehashed now."

Because...?

[lapfog_1]

13. Because there were endless threads about it before

and a lot of "islam is a bad religion because it permits this" entries.

And a lot of hate.

Yes, it was a horrible crime. But it's only ONE such injustice in the history of the world. Shall we endlessly post threads about EVERY injustice that has happened. How far back shall we go? Anything that's happened in the last 2 years? How about 10? Why not 50? 100? You know, we used to hang black people from trees here. People who just happened to be out on the street at the wrong time. Some of them targeted because they "looked at" a white woman. Shall we post about that as well?

If it had just happened, post away. But we covered this one.

[pnwmom]

15. So if you missed those threads before -- I did -- then you shouldn't be allowed

to discuss it here now?

This isn't a random case -- it's part of a pattern of violence against women, in that culture and in all others around the world. I don't see the point of trying to suppress discussion.

[lapfog_1]

47. Fine, start a thread about violence against women

but don't start one where the "news" is 18 months old AND (more important) it's related to the perversion of a religion by some extremists. You know, Christians used to dunk women under water until they drowned or confessed to witchcraft, in which case they were burned alive. Mostly due to a perversion of the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Here are some stats for you to consider:

Fact #1: 17.6 % of women in the United States have survived a completed or attempted rape. Of these, 21.6% were younger than age 12 when they were first raped, and 32.4% were between the ages of 12 and 17. (Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women, Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, November, 2000)

Fact #2: 64% of women who reported being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked since age 18 were victimized by a current or former husband, cohabiting partner, boyfriend, or date. (Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women, Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, November, 2000)

Fact #3: Only about half of domestic violence incidents are reported to police. African-American women are more likely than others to report their victimization to police Lawrence A. Greenfeld et al. (1998). (Violence by Intimates: Analysis of Data on Crimes by Current or Former Spouses, Boyfriends, and Girlfriends. Bureau of Justice Statistics Factbook. Washington DC: U.S. Department of Justice. NCJ #167237. Available from National Criminal Justice Reference Service.)

Fact #4: The FBI estimates that only 37% of all rapes are reported to the police. U.S. Justice Department statistics are even lower, with only 26% of all rapes or attempted rapes being reported to law enforcement officials.

Fact #5: In the National Violence Against Women Survey, approximately 25% of women and 8% of men said they were raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date in their lifetimes. The survey estimates that more than 300,000 intimate partner rapes occur each year against women 18 and older. (Full Report of the Prevalence, Incidence, and Consequences of Violence Against Women, Findings from the National Violence Against Women Survey, November, 2000)

http://www.feminist.com/antiviolence/facts.html

So, if we want an outrage OP, I'm sure we can find one much more recent than 18 months ago. And one from right here in the US.

[whathehell]

64. .....

"You know, Christians used to dunk women under water until they drowned or confessed to witchcraft"

Yeah...500 years ago:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

20. yes, & funny thing, the reason the op posted it is probably because

a bunch of websites promoting war with iran decided, in concert, for no apparent reason, to post the story as though it were new. google it & you'll get a couple of pages.

some of them are pretty vile, too. here's one which, in between the iran bashing, dredges up every nasty sex story it can find about every religious order save the writer's own.

http://jonathanturley.org/category/religion/


demagoguing it is the m.o. of fascists.

[Ms. Toad]

29. Here's a more explicit example of why it s being reposted:

Obama's outreach to "the Muslim world" is emboldening the most extreme elements--advocates of barbaric Islamic law.

Our Swedish correspondent reports on yet another atrocity. Where is the outrage?


The first reports were that Aisha Ibrahim Kuhulow was 23 year old, but her father now confirms for Amnesty International that she was only 13.

http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2009/08/somali-islamists-stone-13-year-old-girl.html

Obama wasn't even president when the stoning took place.

Yes - it was horrible - but it is being republised now (deliberately without reference to the date it was originally published) in order to stir up anger at Obama's attempts to do something other than sent troops off in yet another war.

[Hannah Bell]

31. NO. THE REPORT THAT SHE WAS 13 WAS MADE in 2008 ALSO.

Google her name & look for amnesty's report.

This is being reposted all over the web as part of a coordinated propoganda offensive timed with the renewed US anti-Iran offensive.

it's war sabres he's rattling, maybe you don't GET it.

[Ms. Toad]

42. Try a little reading comprehension.

Re-read my post slowly, and read the article I linked to.

Obama is more measured than any president in recent history (not as much as I would like - but he at least mouths support for diplomacy and communication).

The article (specifically the section I posted) suggests that the stoning took place in response to Obama's more measured response. (And by implication, if we don't insist Obama break out the guns there will be more of this - since this is what happens when he tries diplomacy, rather than full-out war.) I pointed out that the stoning took place before Obama took office (and therefore couldn't be a response to Obama's more diplomatic posture).

[Echo In Light]

52. Twas my thought, as well, Hannah...even though the story is reprehensible

[whopis01]

66. Because some people like to sweep things under the rug and

pretend that they are only relevant until the next big story comes along

[Hannah Bell]

75. more like: because people don't like to be demagogued into bombing iran.

[Captain Hilts]

40. "doesn't need to be rehashed now," said a man. nt

[lapfog_1]

54. You want to make a point?

Go ahead and make it.

Yes, I'm male, so what?

Read the rest of the subthread that I started on this, including the responses from others.

This story is old. 18 months old. Why rehash it NOW? Shall we post about every atrocity from years past?

Or is there something about THIS one that makes it special? Because I can dig a bit and find probably a hundred stories about violence done to girls and boys, some much more horrific than this, that have happened in the last 18 months.

Honor killings in India. Boys killed in Gaza, Iraq, Afghanistan. Burned alive. Hung. Dismembered while still alive.

People can be very evil to each other.

Why dredge THIS ONE up from 18 months ago?

Because the perpetrators are Somali (subtext - we "know" about those black people and how barbaric they can be), or men (subtext - men are nothing more than rapists and murderers, especially of young girls) or Islamic (subtext - Islam is a religion of DEATH and the subjugation of women).

I have no way of knowing, but another DUer has evidence that there is a concerted effort to rehash this particular story across the internets right now. I can only speculate that this might be true and what the motive is for doing so. If there IS such a effort going on, we would be smart not to fall for the obvious propaganda. Remember the FIRST gulf war and the stories of Iraqi soldiers killing babies in Kuwaiti hospitals (stories that were told to our congress by relatives of the Kuwaiti ambassador, stories that weren't even true).

http://www.geocities.com/capitolhill/3589/us-iraq-lie.html

Don't get played!!!

[Beer on a stick]

57. Gender of poster brought up, by a dunce.

[Hannah Bell]

76. i'm a woman. i don't see the relevance of a year-old story. nor do i appreciate

the phony "feminist" spin on a propaganda initiative.

you think women won't be killed when they bomb iran?

[yawnmaster]

59. still 2008 but I think its 11/03/2008, not 03/11/2008 eom

[Triana]

9. Despicable. This is a major human rights issue. The "values voters summit" people were just ....

...advocating public humiliation for non-abstinence - and doing abortions in public. These extremeists - whether they're in the US or Somalia or wherever - are human rights abusers and should be treated as such.

[hokies]

16. The problems is that people treat faith as a virtue, religion is evil, and

that people actually believe the evilness taught in the religious texts of Christianity, Islam, and Judaism.

Let's see what the great deity has to say about stoning women because of sex:

Deuteronomy Chapter 22:20-21
20 But if what he charged her with be true, and virginity be not found in the damsel
21 They shall cast her out of the doors of her father's house, and the men of the city shall stone her to death, and she shall die: because she hath done a wicked thing

Actually, it looks like the god of the old testament not only condones this behavior, but specifically mandates it. Seems like they are just practicing what their religious texts teach them they must do in order to avoid hell. After all, who are we, mere mortals, to challenge the moral authority of the God that created hundreds of billions of galaxies each with hundreds of billions of stars all for us on this tiny planet within this vast universe.

My fellow brothers and sisters, I submit that no thinking person would continue to be associated with the evil of religion. I trust the Great Debate is now over and you will join me in my anti-theism. :patriot:

[Anakin Skywalker]

17. Neuteronomy? Maybe If More Men Were

NEUTERED! This would be a safer, less violent world! LOL

[Dorian Gray]

19. Sick sick sick sick sick

Not only was she raped, but she was stoned to death for having "sex outside of marriage." Sick assholes.

[Hannah Bell]

23. have fun demagoguing the year-old story. don't get too red in the face.

i wonder what kind of war-mongering SOBS republish the same story they demagogued a year ago so they can blanket-smear arabs & muslims yet another time?

[Soylent Brice]

26. nice catch: Publisert 03.11.2008 18:06 n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. It was already caught up the thread.

[Soylent Brice]

38. i saw after i already posted.

overlooked lapfog by mistake.

[lapfog_1]

53. No problem, I have a habit of reading the links when posted.

And I remembered that the same story (or similar one) was well covered here 18 months ago when it happened. I remember there being quite a number of threads, many of whom had near "hate speech" about Muslims and Islam. While I'm no fan of Islam (even the non-extremist versions), I thought that the reactions were over the top. Condemn the act, and the actors involved, but not a whole people or religion.

[Soylent Brice]

60. i try to go to as many links as possible.

not always possible here at work. speed reading not always beneficial, especially here at DU.

i remember that from 18 mos ago.

a few in particular.

[deaniac21]

46. I know, why would they want to do that. With a small amount of

research you could come up with stories from that region, every day.

[Hannah Bell]

82. or this region. or anywhere in the fucking world.

[varelse]

28. Some of the spectators risked their lives trying to save her.

When some of the spectators tried to storm the stadium to save Aisha, the militia opened fire on the crowd, and a young boy was killed.


A spokesman for the Shabab-militia expressed regret for the boy’s death and assured that the soldiers who had opened fire would be punished.

[Hannah Bell]

30. the shabab military that just by happenstance the US is fighting.

[varelse]

50. The point I was hoping to make

is that making assumptions about the Somali *people* based on this incident is unfair. Obviously, some of them were willing to face armed militia to try to stop this death - one person was actually killed.

I'm responding to what I perceive to be demonization of the Somalis, or of followers of Islam.

[Hannah Bell]

77. i'm trying to make the same point.

[varelse]

84. Kinda frustrating after a while

isn't it? :(

[Statistical]

32. Rest in peace sweet children.

Not just the girl who was murdered but the young boy killed trying to save her life.

When you need to kill an unarmed young boy to ensure others can kill an unarmed young girl maybe you should take a breather and say "WTF is going on here?"

[Odin2005]

35. Barbaric fucks!

:puke: :cry:

[BolivarianHero]

39. Fucking Islamists...

The West should have been standing with Soviet soldiers and slitting Mujahideen throats 30 years ago.

[tjwash]

49. Nothing like a year and a half old story to stir up some righteous indignation

:eyes:

[imdjh]

68. So you think it hasn't happened since?

[Hannah Bell]

83. well, i guess there's no need for news-gathering anymore, then. we can just rerun old stories

that fit our biases.

we "know" what's happening, who needs actual "news"?

[imdjh]

85. She was stoned to death by dozens of men in front of a stadium audience.

All biases were not created equally.

[slackmaster]

55. Gotta love the Religion of Peace

:argh:

[lapfog_1]

56. Yes, Christianity sucks...

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/salem/salem.htm

or more recently:

http://www.mombu.com/culture/australia/t-christians-rape-kill-girl-hindus-retaliate-1814656.html

oh wait... I meant Judaism sucks

http://desertpeace.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/eleven-year-old-terrorist-killed-by-israeli-soldiers/

no... not that, Sikhism sucks

http://www.thehindu.com/2009/09/03/stories/2009090354130500.htm

no... Hinduism sucks...

(you starting to see the pattern here???)

[slackmaster]

58. Yes, of course I see the pattern

You and I appear to be completely in agreement on this subject.

[lastliberalintexas]

70. Yeah, each of them by and large does suck

While there can be some good points of any religion, most of the time religion is just perverted by humankind to keep someone in line. I hope you weren't expecting an argument to your post. :)

[Trillo]

61. It's hard to understand this.

I wonder if the justification is not similar to our own hard-heartedness towards the poor and homeless, or simply, the different. Punish the weak.

Someone who gets raped is not responsible for causing it. Punish the weak.

[lapfog_1]

62. That's possible.

Another possibility was that the rapist was blood related to the ruling leader of the militia that either pushed for or ruled the sentence of death for the girl. The reason that I speculate this is that the ruling of death for her was certainly convenient for the rapist. And you can bet that other "punishments" could have been pushed by their ruling council as being "just" under Sharia law (had she been more connected). But then, I'm just cynical that way.

It's a very sad story.

I only wish there was an afterlife so that the both the rapist and the ruling militia could spend an eternity in hell for what they did to her.

[slackmaster]

63. No, it's just a fucked up sexist society that bases its laws on strict interpretation of...

...A very conservative, backward religion.

[Name removed]

78. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_in_LA]

74. The only thing that gives me hope is hearing that some spectators risked their lives to try to save

her. Not everyone in that part of the world, crowds around to see such acts as entertainment. Some know it's barbaric and tried to save the poor girl.

[grahamhgreen]

87. Why are we propping up an Islamic republic in Afghanistan with American lives?