Attorney: OKC bombing tapes appear edited

[keepCAblue]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_oklahoma_bombing_video

My apologies if this is a dupe...just popped up on Yahoo's news leads...

OKLAHOMA CITY – Long-secret security tapes showing the chaos immediately after the 1995 bombing of the Oklahoma City federal building are blank in the minutes before the blast and appear to have been edited, an attorney who obtained the recordings said Sunday.

"The real story is what's missing," said Jesse Trentadue, a Salt Lake City attorney who obtained the recordings through the federal Freedom of Information Act as part of an unofficial inquiry he is conducting into the April 19, 1995, bombing that killed 168 people and injured hundreds more.

Trentadue gave copies of the tapes to The Oklahoman newspaper, which posted them online and provided copies to The Associated Press.

The tapes turned over by the FBI came from security cameras various companies had mounted outside office buildings near the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. They are blank at points before 9:02 a.m., when a truck bomb carrying a 4,000 pound fertilizer-and-fuel-oil bomb detonated in front of the building, Trentadue said.

"Four cameras in four different locations going blank at basically the same time on the morning of April 19, 1995. There ain't no such thing as a coincidence," Trentadue said.

More---> http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_oklahoma_bombing_video

[babylonsister]

1. What could possibly be edited from what happened? Better or worse?

Could they possibly be worse? I don't think so. Ugh. yahoo... ugh.

[struggle4progress]

2. Trentadue had a million dollar emotional damage lawsuit against the Feds

for their handling of his brother's August 95 death in custody in Oklahoma City, after he was detained for violating parole associated with a bank robbery. Trentadue is a something of a hero in rightwing circles: his name shows up on websites that push strange theories about the Oklahoma City bombing, such as the idea that it was actually an "inside job" or that McVeigh bombed the Federal building under the direct supervision of a Federal agent who had been involved in the Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian incidents, or that Trentadue's brother was a patsy who died because someone fingered him as a suspect in the bombing. As far as I can tell, none of these theories is supported by anything convincing to a person of ordinary rational ability

I posted a link to a summary of the Federal investigation into Trentadue's brother's death in another threads: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4079818&mesg_id=4079934

[Hannah Bell]

3. and this is relevant to the tapes how?

[struggle4progress]

9. When someone says "tapes appear edited," it is natural to wonder

what tapes are involved, who is saying they were edited and why, and what difference it might make. It is my current understanding that the attorney asked for twenty ordinary (soundless) surveillance tapes from buildings near the blast scene, that he claims four were edited to eliminate the period immediately around the blast time, and that otherwise the tapes simply show folk running out of various nearby buildings after the blast. Assuming that's accurate (and I don't know for sure that it is), a natural explanation of four tapes being blank around blast-time would be that some equipment malfunctioned briefly after being rattled by the blast wave. It's hard to imagine why the Feds would edit the tapes before releasing them in response to a FOIA request, though perhaps anyone who adopts the conspiracy theories (that I mentioned upthread) might be inclined to believe there is some nefarious secret being hidden from us by some editing. This seems unlikely to me, and I'd expect a cautious person to study the tapes carefully before claiming they'd been edited. It thus is natural to inquire into who the attorney is, and in what circles he may move, in order to assess his credibility. Currently, I'm not finding much reason to think him very credible on the subject

[Hannah Bell]

11. so, the point is, you prefer to start by

painting him as a nut on a vendetta then use that nasty picture to argue the tapes must be fine, cause he's a nut.

i mistrust your method.

[struggle4progress]

12. I'm all ears if you have another take. I never heard of him before now.

I tried to find out what the tapes showed, and I told you what I think I learned. I tried to imagine why anyone would edit them and couldn't imagine a plausible reason. Then I thought about why the tapes might be blank and I told you what I thought. Finally, I set out to find out what I could about the lawyer -- and learned that he seems to be, as you say, a nut on a vendetta

That does rather end my interest in this story, I'm afraid

But if you have a really really good argument for why I should be paying attention to this, I'll read it through

[Hannah Bell]

13. i don't know anything about him or the tapes. i just mistrust your method

on principle, esp. in cases like this one.

it's always "nuts" who question the official story, don't you know that?

by definition.

[struggle4progress]

17. ... The Regency Tower tape turns to static at the moment of the explosion ...

Bombing tapes
Buzz up!
BY NOLAN CLAY
Published: September 27, 2009
http://newsok.com/secret-footage-reveals-chaos/article/3404377

This is, of course, completely consistent with disruption of the video apparatus by the blast wave

[struggle4progress]

18. Well, here are some links that link to video. Knock yourself out!

Eye Opener: New Oklahoma City Bombing Footage
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/federal-eye/2009/09/eye_opener_new_oklahoma_city_b.html?hpid=news-col-blog

I didn't find that library entrance footage very eye-opening, but maybe it's a slow news day

OKC bombing tapes released by FBI
http://www.kjrh.com/news/state/story/OKC-bombing-tapes-released-by-FBI/06SWrHKYIkW8FCPmFCThjg.cspx

That shows folk rushing out of the rattled SW Bell building

[struggle4progress]

20. ... A review of the tapes by The Oklahoman shows some cameras, like the one at the library, clearly

record the moment of the explosion. Some do not. A tape from the Regency Tower, an apartment building west of the Murrah Building, turns to static. The time on the Regency Tower tape is 9 a.m. A Southwestern Bell tape skips a few seconds and also goes black briefly. The time on that tape is 8:59 a.m. and 9 a.m. However, many clocks on the tapes are slower than the actual time and the glitches could be from the explosion itself ...

Lawyer says Oklahoma City bombing tapes edited
Comments 13
Buzz up!
BY NOLAN CLAY
Published: September 28, 2009
http://newsok.com/lawyer-says-bombing-tapes-edited/article/3404585

[Proud Liberal Dem]

8. Don't forget about Iraq

Some neocons advanced the idea that Iraq had somehow been connected even going so far as using it as a possible justifications for invading in 2003 although, of course, that never was officially used but there are probably still some people who still believe it. :eyes:

[struggle4progress]

10. Oh, I remember all that rightrwing noise very well: the wingnuts were all

getting ready to go to war against the Arab world in general. But I'd been spending a lot of time following the "Wise Use" and "takings" wingnuts, and so I was convinced from Day One that it was rightwing anti-Government violence

[Ezlivin]

16. Rational people would like to know:

1) Why the FBI confiscated so many security tapes that could have easily shown whether McVeigh was alone (or as eyewitnesses claim was accompanied by someone).

2) Why the BATF was out of the building that day and why they were "warned ahead of time" as a BATF member admitted;

3) Why multiple, on-air credible witnesses talk of the discovery of additional bombs (and removal of said bombs) in the building;

4) Why the government's own explosives expert said it was impossible to do the damage with an ANFO bomb?

What's also interesting is the fact that the government had an early form of the Patriot Act ready to be signed into law after the event.

[struggle4progress]

21. It's your theory that Federal investigators should NOT have collected th'security tapes as evidence?

:eyes:

[Ezlivin]

23. What evidence?

They quickly collected the 23 videotapes and NEVER USED THEM.

What kind of evidence is that?

When the government claims that McVeigh acted alone yet eyewitnesses speak of a companion wouldn't that be a GREAT time to unveil the video evidence?

FBI Withheld Vital Evidence

[struggle4progress]

26. You're just playing games. First you criticize Federal investigators

for collecting the tapes at all, then you claim they never used them. In fact, frames from one of the tapes were used during the trial to show the Ryder truck prior to the explosion

Have a nice day

:hi:

[Ezlivin]

27. Raising a question about an investigation is "playing"?

Let's see: We have ample eyewitness testimony to the presence of accomplice.

The FBI has ALL of the security tapes. They elect to show NONE of them to prove the eyewitnesses wrong (or right).

They selectively show frames of an empty Ryder truck, though.

Hmmmm.

The eyewitness testimony is amazing.

[struggle4progress]

22. The Republicans used the bombing as a pretext to ram through a limitation

on death penalty appeals (Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996): that's a bit different from "the government had an early form of the Patriot Act ready to be signed into law after the event"

[Ezlivin]

24. Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996

Title II recasts federal law concerning restitution, expands the circumstances under which foreign governments that support terrorism may be sued for resulting injuries, and increases the assistance and compensation available to the victims of terrorism.

Title III is crafted to help sever international terrorists from their sources of financial and material support. It enlarges the proscriptions against assisting in the commission of various terrorist crimes. It authorizes the regulation of fundraising by foreign organizations associated with terrorist activities. It adjusts the Foreign Assistance Act to help isolate countries who support terrorists and to bolster counterterrorism efforts in those who oppose them.

Title IV addresses immigration-related terrorism issues. It establishes or adjusts mechanisms to bar alien terrorists from the U.S., to remove from the U.S. any who are here, to narrow asylum provisions which allow terrorists to frustrate efforts to bar or remove them, and to expedite deportation of criminal aliens. It may prove to be a staging ground for more comprehensive immigration law revision now pending before the Congress.

Title V adjusts the restrictions on possession and use of materials capable of producing catastrophic damage in the hands of terrorists.

Title VI implements the treaty requiring the countries of the world to limit plastic explosives to those with pre-explosion detection devices implanted within them. Source

These portions of the bill were specifically written to guard against future terrorist attacks and, as such, are a precursor to the Patriot Act.

If Title III had been effective, Mohammed Atta wouldn't have received over $100,000 from Pakistan just before 9/11.

[struggle4progress]

25. Yes, I remember it. I read in in the Congressional Record back in 1996. And the

big news in the bill was Title I, which was a gigantic limitation on habeas pleadings in death penalty cases. The remaining titles were fairly insignificant in comparison, and were probably there simply to justify sticking the word "anti-terrorism" into the name

[jberryhill]

28. Rational People Recognize Answers When They Get Them....

To pick one out of your laundry list:

"3) Why multiple, on-air credible witnesses talk of the discovery of additional bombs (and removal of said bombs) in the building;"

Guess what the BATF does?

Among other things, they investigate bombings. To train for that purpose, they have dummy bombs. They even had an inoperative missile launcher that was to be used in an arms purchasing sting operation.

But, absolutely, when rescuers were going through the wreckage in the immediate aftermath and came across suspicious looking items, they would alert others and the area would be cleared for investigation of secondaries.

The "secondary bombs" thing is regularly recycled, along with "multiple, on-air credible witnesses" as if the reports at that point in time were never followed up.

You might consider taking a look at, say, Wikipedia, and the reports referenced here:

"Periodically the scene had to be evacuated after police received tips claiming that other bombs had been planted in the building.<72>

At 10:28 a.m. CST rescuers found what they believed to be a second bomb, but some rescue workers refused to leave until police ordered the mandatory evacuation of a four-block area around the site.<99><94> The device was determined to be a three-foot (.9-m) long TOW missile used in the training of federal agents and bomb-sniffing dogs,<5><100> but although inert had been marked "live" to fool arms traffickers in a planned law enforcement sting.<100> On examination the missile was determined to be inert, and relief efforts resumed 45 minutes after its discovery.<100><101> The last survivor, a fifteen-year-old girl found under the base of the collapsed building, was rescued at about 7:00 p.m. CST.<102>"

[Ezlivin]

29. Link please?

[jberryhill]

30. Read please

I said it is the wikipedia article on the OKC bombing. and if you don't know how to find wikipedia or check the links cited in the article, then I'm afraid i'll have to see your Internet license.

Geez.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing

[Ezlivin]

31. Interesting.

The Wiki article speaks of one bomb, while eyewitnesses testified to seeing two bombs removed.

The FEMA report says: "A second and third bomb were located in the building. The second bomb was disarmed and the third bomb was evacuated."

The U.S. Forces Command Daily Log: "Two more explosive devices were located vicinity the explosion site."

Sworn Testimony of Virgil Steele: "13) That approximately an hour and a half to two hours after I arrived on the scene, someone ordered everyone to evacuate the building because someone stated that they had found a bomb in the building. 14) That I did not evacuate the building and continued to look for victims in the day care center during the evacuation. 15) That there were law enforcement personnel from the ATF, a law enforcement Bomb Squad and officers from the Oklahoma City Police Department in the building during the evacuation. 15) That approximately twenty five minutes after the building was evacuated, someone announced that the building was clear and the rescue effort was continued. 17) That after the evacuation I observed personnel from a law enforcement bomb squad remove a silver canister from the building and place it in a bomb squad disposal box. 18) That approximately an hour after the first evacuation I was on the mezzanine level on the south side of the building when someone stated that another bomb had been found in the building and the building was evacuated again. 19) That after the second evacuation and after I went back into the building I observed a device being removed from the building by a law enforcement bomb squad."

Perhaps the TOW missile was the "silver canister" that Virgil Steele testified about.

[jberryhill]

34. Any suspicious object was treated as a potential secondary

Your use of bold is interesting...

"someone stated that they had found a bomb" does not mean a bomb was found in the building. Bolding "they had found a bomb" is not an accurate emphasis of what is stated there.

[Ezlivin]

35. Did you actually read the bold text?

Although you find my use of it "interesting", perhaps you should view it as highlighting the salient parts.

The FEMA report says: "A second and third bomb were located in the building. The second bomb was disarmed and the third bomb was evacuated."

The U.S. Forces Command Daily Log: "Two more explosive devices were located vicinity the explosion site."

The wording doesn't allow for weasel words such as "suspicious object." The words are "bomb" and "explosive device." Apparently those on the scene had no problem identifying what they had seen.

[jberryhill]

37. You know... for someone who requests links...

Would you care to identify or link to the two reports in question?

FEMA wasn't even there until five hours later:

http://www.fema.gov/emergency/usr/usrok95.shtm

"Within five hours of the blast the first FEMA urban search-and-rescue task force was deployed. By 6 p.m. the task force was in the building searching for victims. One of the first assignments was to search the second floor nursery for victims."

Here is the report of the Oklahoma City Fire Department, who I suppose you believe are "in on it":

http://www.terrorisminfo.mipt.org/pdf/okcfr_App_B.pdf

"All of these operations were delayed by the discover of what was thought to be a secondary explosive device at approximately 10:30 AM. All rescue workers were removed from the building until it could be safely secured. No explosive devices were found and personnel were allowed to return to the building and resume search operations."

Also read the account there of Chief Gary Marrs, who you are going to tell me is a paid agent of the NWO, yes?

[Ezlivin]

38. You know, for someone who reads you read a lot between the lines

Too bad you didn't read the sworn testimony of witnesses who were there at the time. Not five hours afterword.

Sworn Testimony of Virgil Steele: "13) That approximately an hour and a half to two hours after I arrived on the scene, someone ordered everyone to evacuate the building because someone stated that they had found a bomb in the building. 14) That I did not evacuate the building and continued to look for victims in the day care center during the evacuation. 15) That there were law enforcement personnel from the ATF, a law enforcement Bomb Squad and officers from the Oklahoma City Police Department in the building during the evacuation. 15) That approximately twenty five minutes after the building was evacuated, someone announced that the building was clear and the rescue effort was continued. 17) That after the evacuation I observed personnel from a law enforcement bomb squad remove a silver canister from the building and place it in a bomb squad disposal box. 18) That approximately an hour after the first evacuation I was on the mezzanine level on the south side of the building when someone stated that another bomb had been found in the building and the building was evacuated again. 19) That after the second evacuation and after I went back into the building I observed a device being removed from the building by a law enforcement bomb squad."

In other sworn testimony, Tiffany Bible said: "13) That after the building was evacuated and we were allowed back on the scene, I observed another ATF agent talking to another law enforcement officer and overheard this ATF agent say that during the evacuation a fifty pound bomb was found attached to a gas line inside the Murrah Building."

[Ezlivin]

39. News reports from the day

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWwrEEP8EBk

[jberryhill]

4. Is "attorney" supposed to make him credible?

Other than spin conspiracy theories and appear on Alex Jones, what else does this attorney do?

[Selatius]

5. If the tapes weren't tampered with, it could've given us a look at any possible accomplices he had.

With the execution of Timothy McVeigh, the only other direct window into what happened that day right before the explosion was obviously destroyed with these tapes being edited.

[CBGLuthier]

7. Ever heard of Terry Nichols?

Still alive. Still a window. Still as fucking useless as dirt.

[Selatius]

14. Yeah, obviously. But I was speculating at the notion there could've been others. nt

[gratuitous]

32. Has Glenn Beck ever accounted for his whereabouts that day?

Highly suspicious that he hasn't categorically stated and proved that he wasn't involved in this despicable act, don't you think? What is Glenn Beck hiding about his involvement with McVeigh and Nichols? Why hasn't either man issued a statement that Glenn Beck wasn't their accomplice? Where's the long form confession?

Hey, using nitwit right wing tactics is kind of fun, if you don't mind looking batshit crazy.

[Festivito]

6. LBN link:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4079818&mesg_id=4079818

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. John Doe No. 2

There were reports, mostly be right wing sources that on the video was a man called John Doe #2. Supposedly it was of a Mid-Eastern man who got out of the Ryder truck just prior to the bombing. There was reportedly an all points bulletin for this man right after the bombing and for a couple of weeks afterward by the FBI and then mysteriously, the FBI called off the search.

There is a former local OKC investigative NBC news reporter, Jayna Davis, who followed this for a long time. She found the person, an Iraqi, who came here to the US when Papa Bush let many Iraqis into the US after the first Gulf War.

The kicker is, according to Davis, this man left Oklahoma and relocated to MA and took a job at Logan Airport.

http://www.jaynadavis.com/

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[defendandprotect]

33. Funny how these cameras work and don't work . . . ahem . ..

Pentagon's camera, even stranger . . . hmmm..

[KittyWampus]

36. maybe the blast temporarily screwed with the electronic systems of the cameras