I remember where I came from

[AllentownJake]

I'm the great great grandson of Molly Maguires who fought for the rights of Irish Immigrants in the coal mines of Pennsylvania.

I'm the great grandson of PA Dutch industrialist who were destroyed by the fires of the great depression of the 1920s.

My grandmother marched with Patton's army. That's right as a nurse my grandmother marched behind the army as war claimed it's victims.

My grandfather on my mother's side was a union leader and a democratic party ward boss. My grandfather on my father's side was a state policeman and republican mayor.

I'm the son of two Vietnam veterans. Two people in their young age were sent into a senseless battle field in South East Asia. Two people who survived but watched friends needlessly sacrifice their lives.

My generation time has come and a new battle is brewing in this country.

I will not be sitting on the sidelines because it is not in my blood to sit on the sidelines.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Few of us have your vision.

Thank you for sharing it tonight...

I am very moved, and inspired...

K&R

I salute your family's service...

:patriot:

[vadawg]

2. dude as you are a marxist im not sure i will be on the same side as you

but good luck with it.. :) erm please remember to spell my name wrong on the "list"

[AllentownJake]

3. Marxist doesn't equal communist

I accept Karl Marx's critism and flaws on capitalism. It doesn't mean I accept Lenin and Stalin's answer to them.

[vadawg]

4. unfortunately mate history tells us that it will start with good intentions

and very quickly there will be lists, luckily by them i know where i come from and i and mine will have moved on..

[AllentownJake]

10. There are already lists right now

There were lists in the 60s, there were lists in the 80s, there were list in the 90s.

The other side has their list as well. Ask the employees of Acorn or Michael Moore.

[vadawg]

16. mayby but until the wackos on either the left or right get complete power the lists dont scare me

but if the marxists or the christofascists get complete control then i know the lists will start to get expunged pretty quickly, luckily as i said i know where im from and i and mine will be long gone by then..

[TexasObserver]

5. OK, so you have a Mission Statement. What are you going to DO?

[AllentownJake]

7. Get ready for the coming collapse

and start to communicate a new vision for how we can function as a society.

[BlooInBloo]

9. Translation: Do nothing but type "the sky is falling" into the intertubez all day everyday.

[AllentownJake]

12. Love You

Seriously I do.

But the sky is actually falling.

[TexasObserver]

20. No, the sky isn't falling. Wasn't falling a year ago. Wasn't falling 6 months ago.

Isn't falling next year.

Seriously, it isn't.

[AllentownJake]

30. Ok,

Riddle me this batman. How does an economy based on consumption survive when they reach their debt limit?

How does a country bring back manufacturing jobs when it holds higher labor and enviromental standards than it's competitors and not charge a tariff to make up for it?

Where are these new jobs going to come from to replace the ones that were losts this round?

[TexasObserver]

34. None of this is new. It's just new to you.

Every 20 years, there's a really bad economy. It's cyclical, and it's ultimately predictable. Those who experience it as adults for the first time are similar to those experiencing a hurricane for the first time. It seems pretty overwhelming the first time you go through it. After you go through it two or three times, not so overwhelming.

I'm concerned about our lack of manufacturing and I want to see protections and incentives for American manufacturers, but I don't know that it can be accomplished.

Can we recover from this recession? Sure. We will. It will take years, because it took years to dig ourselves into the hole, and we just started paying for it a year ago. We have several more years to serve on this economic downturn. It will be five years before we're back to where we were two years ago.

[TexasObserver]

15. More general statements that mean nothing.

First of all, there isn't going to be any collapse, so I challenge you to state with great specificity what you mean by "the coming collapse."

Second, what makes you think that YOU know what's going to happen next week, next month or next year?

[AllentownJake]

23. See there is where your assumption fails

"There will be no collapse" The collapse is happening right now. I'd rather it not happen, however when you build an economic system the way we have a collapse is ineivatable. You can't make your money on the middle class paying mortgage and rent and consuming your products and at the same time ship manufacturing jobs overseas.

We don't make anything here anymore, how are we going to sustain this economy? Servicing each other? We import goods and than we service each other. Hell we've even started to export the servicing each other part with call centers. You can finance that on debt only as long as those willing to lend to you think you can pay you back.

[Ikonoklast]

35. Funny. The U.S. still leads the world in manufacturing.

But we don't make anything here anymore?

Get your facts straight.

[ProSense]

36. Facts down matter when you're selling doom. n/t

[AllentownJake]

41. Actually

China and Germany lead the world in manufacturing.

China is the number one exporter
Germany is the number two exporter

[Ikonoklast]

45. Exporting does not equal manufacturing.

You are wrong. The U.S. still leads the world in manufacturing.

Check your facts.


Just because you say or think it does not make it reality.

[TexasObserver]

37. I have asked you for details.

If you cannot describe how the economy is collapsing, just say so.

[AllentownJake]

42. I have posted countless threads on this with numerous details

1) Debt. America is tapped out in all fronts, The national debt, consumer debt, business debt, there simply isn't enough money out there repay how much is owed. You can print more money, but that will lead to inflation than hyper inflation. Not to mention we are spending more than we can afford on our military but it is politically impossible to cut defense spending.

2) Unemployment despite what the economist and media will tell you is a leading indicator in a consumer based economy. If most of our jobs were in manufacturing than yes, unemployment would be a lagging indicator. The more unemployment you have the less consumers.

3) Baby Boomer retirement. The combination of most of the retirement savings in America being tied up in equities and are entitlement programs are going to kill us. The stock market is artificially over valued due to the 401(k) and Pension funds. As these assets are drawn to pay for retirees they need new employees purchasing them. Since wages are deflating and we will be dealing with high unemployment (jobless recovery) there will be more sellers than buyers.

Those are the three biggest killers, right now we resemble the Soviet Union at the end more than we resemble Japan who went into 10 years of no growth.

[AuntPatsy]

18. ?

[vadawg]

22. what makes you think that you will survive the coming collapse

and even if you do what makes you think that the new workers paradise wont just judge you as a troublemaker or deem you not worth your rations. People who advocate for civil upheaval or worse civil war are fucking nuts, nothing and i mean nothing in this world is worse than civil war...

[AuntPatsy]

24. agree ,, brother against brother again? no more......

[AllentownJake]

28. I'm not advocating for it

It's going to happen whether I exist or not. Totally outside me and my desires to fight and rebuild, this is going to happen.

We have traded an economic system over the past 30 years that was sustainable to one that will collapse, seeing that I'm 31, I didn't have much to do with those decisions. We have exported the wealth of this country piece by piece so that someone could make a larger profit.

However, there is going to be a fight in the direction we go. Do we build a more just society that favors the benefit of the many or do we build a feudalistic society that benefits the few.

[grantcart]

39. Allentownjake actually is one of the most committed activitists here

he may have logged more hours in the last campaign than anyone else here.

[AllentownJake]

43. Thank you

[RKP5637]

6. Thanks for posting this!!!

It was wonderful to read!

[ProSense]

8. "I'm the son of two Vietnam veterans" Your mother was sent into battle?

You know who else is not on the sidelines? President Obama:

He is on a path to transformation America. Time will reveal Obama's impact, both domestically and internationally.

The potential is there---from Obama's budget to health care reform to climate change.

Obama to chair historic U.N. council nuclear meeting

G20 to Become Forum for Global Economic Cooperation

[TexasObserver]

19. There were many nurses in Vietnam, at the main bases.

[ProSense]

27. I realize there were nurses, but

the statement seemed to imply that his mother was on the frontlines: "into a senseless battle field."

It was a dangerous place to be nonetheless.

[TexasObserver]

31. I see. No, they were not in combat.

Since the OP was pejorative, I didn't give literal meaning to "battle field."

There were some women who died, of course, mainly from rocket attacks.

[AllentownJake]

32. My father acknowledged

That my mother saw things far worse than he ever saw.

He led men into combat, my mother and grandmother had to do their best to fix what was done after the battle.

[AuntPatsy]

21. not many of you left on du, thank you....

:dem:

[Odin2005]

11. My Great-grandfather was a MN Farmer-Labor populist.

My grandfather was the head DFLer in his little rural Minnesota town, a union construction worker, too.

My uncle Pete fought in Korea.

My 56yo dad protested against the Vietnam war in high school. He is a loyal Dem and UNION member.

My 49yo mom raised my sister and I as single mom barely making ends meet. She is a loyal Dem

[AllentownJake]

14. We have generations of fighters behind us

We need to mobilize that portion of our blood that fought for the rights we enjoyed.

[AuntPatsy]

13. change will come but not without sacrifice

:thumbsup:

[AllentownJake]

17. The dirty word in American Politics and culture in 2009 nt

[AuntPatsy]

26. "Sacrifice"

[AwakeAtLast]

25. If more people really knew where they came from, our country would be in much better shape

I have a great-great-infinity grandfather who fought in the revolutionary war and a great-great-great grandfather who piloted flat boats down the Ohio river to New Orleans.

Another started out as the head of a German nobleman's stable. When he died he sent his sons to America in the mid-1800's to avoid the conflicts over there. Once they made it here they fought in the Civil War.

My mom's dad was Mayor of their town.

I know for who's memory I am fighting, just as you are.

Great post - a hearty :kick: & R!

[AllentownJake]

29. We need to remember our past struggles

and how far we came as a nation. To appreciate what we can do.

[Avalux]

33. I remember where I came from too.

I'm the great, great, great (and a few more) granddaughter of Swiss/German settlers in 1719 Philadelphia; their sons and grandsons fought in the Revolutionary War. Then they migrated west to Gettysburg where they built a grand farm and orchards. The Civil War called their sons who fought for the Union army - the rest of the family fled north as the battle encroached their land; the farm was destroyed and is now an historical site.

My English great grandfather lost his family's lucrative business during the Great Depression and struggled to recover.

Both of my grandfathers fought in WWII; one in Europe and the other in the Pacific as a marine, enduring and surviving Tarawa.

My grandfathers, father, uncles, aunts - all proud union members.

It's not in my blood to sit on the sidelines either. I'll be right there with you. K&R.

[femmocrat]

38. We stand on the shoulders of giants.

Never forget what they sacrificed for us.

[grantcart]

40. Well

my parents were both arch conservative Barry Goldwater types, I knew who Cleon Skousen was when I was in the 2nd grade.

I think he came to our house for a meeting.

My father's uncle was the second longest serving President of the Mormon Church (Senator Bennett is a distant cousin)

My great great great grandfather was raised by Bringham Young and was the first mayor of Salt Lake City. Had he not died of pneumonia young he would have almost certainly succeeded as President.

He was the hot head who got all the Mormon farmers stirred up before the Meadow Mountain Massacre.


Some of us have to remember, even if we don't want to, and we have to start new traditions.

[TBF]

44. Sounds like we're on the same side brother -

We don't have the long military history (there was a redcoat on my mom's side who came over from Britain and stayed), but my dad did fight in VietNam (63-67 enlisted Naval) and worked at a factory when he came home injured but thankfully still alive. I remember painting union strike signs with him as young as 5 or 6.