advocating for privatizing public schools is a symptom of corruption

[yurbud]

Obama's education secretary is a big fan of charter schools and testing, both of which don't do much for educating kids, but do put our tax dollars in the pockets of for-profit businesses.

Looking at the symbiotic relationship between companies like Halliburton and Blackwater and the Bush administration, with campaign donations to candidates leading to contracts to donors to more donations from now wealthier contractors and well-paid jobs for pols and their top toadies when they left public life, isn't it pretty safe to say that if someone is advocating letting for-profit companies run our public schools, they are doing it more for potential financial gain than based on any sound public policy considerations?

Why should we let Wall Street do to our kids what they have done to our jobs, health care, mortgages, and just about anything else they can get their degenerate trust fund baby hands on?

[Chulanowa]

1. Absofuckinglutely

It's not the sign of an idiot - an idiot just doesn't know better.

[Orsino]

12. Well, plenty of idiots are eager to follow the corrupt.

But the concept? Corrupt.

[MajorChode]

2. Comparing charter schools to Blackwater?

Do you really think that's a fair comparison?

I'm certainly no fan of charter schools, but many of them are run by non-profits and/or charity organizations.

[yurbud]

3. I thought I made that clear--for profit is very different from non-profit or charity

In places where private entities have taken over it has tended to be the for-profit variety.

[Nikki Stone1]

6. IF you're talking about Edison or about Neil Bush's company, then yes,

the Blackwater comparison is apt.

[MajorChode]

11. That would be an insult to Blackwater then

[Luminous Animal]

18. Non-profit does equal benevelent.

Simply because a business is incorporated as a non-profit does not mean that nobody profits. The profits could be funneled into salaries for administration staff (which may be padded with family members), curricula and supplies provided by cronies, & corrupt leases and real estate deals.

I don't know of any charter schools that are operated by charities.

[yurbud]

21. good points

[MajorChode]

30. I have no idea what point you're trying to make here

First you say that non-profits are benevolent (which is true in many instances, but isn't a requirement), then you point out that some workers can and do make a salary. Many churches have salaried employees also, but that doesn't mean their primary goal is profit. You can say the same for government and all sorts of other entities.

[Luminous Animal]

31. I meant to say that non-profit does NOT equal benevolent.

In my experience, most church's primary goal is to make enough money to enables the elders to enjoy a lifestyle of which their parishioners are not accustomed.

Given that I erred in the title of my post, I clarify. Just because a corporation is organized as a non-profit, it doesn't logically mean that the organization serves the public good.

[MajorChode]

36. I'm on the executive board of just such a non-profit

Such non-profits are generally formed to either manage collective assets or to otherwise serve the interest of smaller groups.

I've never heard of a church elder getting paid for their services for anything above their expenses associated with their duties.

It defies reason why anyone would form a non-profit to found or operate a charter school that wasn't benevolent. Do you have any examples of this?

[Ozymanithrax]

4. Advocating the privatization of public schools is religious Capitalism

These people have faith, as in a belief with no relation what so ever to reality or evidence, that only through the profit motive can education be brought to a real high standard. Capitalism is not just an economic system to these people, it is their salvation.

These people are delusional not corrupt.

Their intentions are good, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[stray cat]

15. Then make all public schools equally funded and successful and outlaw private schools

[Ozymanithrax]

16. Public schools should be funded equally.

There should be national standards for public schools. Our mishmosh of local control creates a system where areas with a high tax base have good schools and areas where the poor live are training grounds for reform schools.

No, private schools should not be outlawed. Many of them are relgious, and doing that would violate chruch and state. But even private schools should teach real science and keep it separate from religon. If a chruch wants to teach creationism, let it teach it in Sundayschool.

But the US needs to come into the twenty-first century and develop uniform standards and funding. Otherwise, we will continue to have a third world education system.

[yurbud]

20. there's a difference between a private school that makes it mostly on it's own tuition and...

a for-profit charter that takes over the function of a public school.

[Jeep789]

5. Other - Public schools are not standardized

Meaning some are much better than others. This is simply unfair and intolerable. Something needs to be done, although I don't think charter schools are the answer.

[yurbud]

9. it is curious that the same people who want deregulated charter schools don't want to take

the regulatory constraints off existing public schools.


Essentially, they want public schools to fight with one hand tied behind their backs, then declare them the losers when they get kidney punched.

[Chulanowa]

22. Remove school funding's tie to property taxes

As it stands now, schools in wealthy areas simply get more funding than schools in poor areas.

I'm also of the mind that public schools need to be federalized. There's no damn reason why my current state of washington should have such a much better school system than my home state of Alabama due to a bunch of Republican pricks who are education-phobic

[Jeep789]

24. That is a great idea. nt

[earth mom]

7. I voted yes, even though I've been on the fence about Charter Schools because I believe our schools

are really screwed up and the idea of an alternative to our schools sounds great to me....except...

that I am absolutely against private companies being awarded government money-aka-MY TAXES!!! :grr:

[trixie]

8. I voted other

We have schools of choice (Michigan) pretty much means your local district must take you but you can apply at other school in your county and perhaps along county lines. Charter schools, who must be attached or under the supervision of a University started out very poorly. They have improved and now advertise as "as good as local public school". Which is really saying, you might as well stay at your school or another public school in your county.

I do like that districts within a county will now specialize. You could go to your local high school in the mornging for regular academics and then go to another district for specialized training such as trades, at risk, the arts, media etc. Religious schools are not included in charter school program.

[yurbud]

10. I heard a good argument against that school choice bit--poor parents don't have time or money

to transport kids across town so they get stuck with the bad schools

[TheKentuckian]

14. As a person that grew up a poor kid that got up at 5:30 and took the city bus to my choice school

I say BULLSHIT!

Not that in some cases you aren't correct but the fixation on idea that we have to sit 30 kids with a wide variance of interests, levels of dedication, and inclination and pitch down the middle is batshit insane to me. There is no excuse to have "bad schools" in the first place how that chestnut gets hidden all the time, I don't know BUT every kid isn't the same in ability, interests, or even in need/response to discipline and structure and that at some point needs to be faced by administrators, parents, and educators.

Fist things first though, demand an accounting of why ANY schools are BAD ones and demand that that be rectified rather than an excuse to escape the few that excel and leave the rest to wither and die.

[yurbud]

26. I went to a public school of choice in high school and agree with your point on

putting kids with diverse abilities together. That's what happened to me in grade school, so I stopped going most of the time in seventh and eighth grade.

The real answer about bad schools is that it is a combination of family dysfunction kids bring in with them that makes it tough for many to consistently pay attention and that same dysfunction means not enough of their parents insist on and help provide the help the schools need. The other part is that the wealthier people want poor schools to fail, so they have an excuse to either stop paying taxes for public schools or set up a for profit business to suck up our tax dollars.

[trixie]

35. It has caused bussing problems

Bussing has completely changed. When I was a kid (loooooong time ago) if you went to a private school your local school district transported you. Which would mean helping those who could afford it. Now you do have to either arrange for transportation or hope your school has an agreement with another school. Good points are that you can have your kids attend school by your work if that works out. I would say only 5% choose to change schools and mostly their parent works at that school or they specialize. In the area I live kids can go to the surrounding schools if another kid wants to go to your school. Example: All kids going into trades jump on the busses at their school and head out. They could bring back all the kids who want radio/tv experience. This is used mostly for trades, auto shop, cosmotology, languages etc. It has taken a while to even things out and it really only works because our whole county is pretty much close in household incomes within different districts.

Bad points: You could have an elementary child coming home at 5 pm for the busses are so in demand they run early morning to late. Middle school starts at 7 am and an elementar school starts at 9:30. Middle schoo is out by 2:10 pm and elementary school is out at 4:30. I could see how a family who don't have a car (very rare in the metro Detroit area) would just have to stick it out in their own district.

It has made the districts equalize. Students only get x dollars at all schools. There are fund raising limitations so that a wealthy area can't fund raise their way to better schools. It can help a district whose residents are aging and instead of closing schools they can advertise for openings. At least parochial schools are completely shut out.

[stray cat]

13. IF charter schools educate children better than a public school in the area

is it child abuse if you don't try to send the child to the charter school? (of course not but comparing halliburtin and charter schools some of which are really good is stupid.)

Many public schools are funded by property taxes - in poorer areas that means children and teachers get ripped off - how is that better than a charter school in the area.

[yurbud]

19. what does the funding mechanism have to do with whether money goes to public or

contracted out for profit charter schools?

I said in an earlier response I'm open to the idea of public-run or non-profit charters, but for profit ones are a symptom of and will lead to more of the epic corruption that has led to our recent wars, collapse of Wall Street, health insurance that let's people die, and a mortgage industry that gives out mortgages that they know they will foreclose on.

All of those happened because the industries involved bought our elected officials.

If we start giving contracts to private companies for public education it will inevitably lead to the vicious circle of campaign donations leading to contracts leading to more campaign donations and little accountability for outcome or waste.

[eppur_se_muova]

17. Combination of the first two choices. nt

[rucky]

23. They're advocating for LESS accountability & LESS local control.

There are quite a few well-intentioned private and charter schools, but as a policy, this leave alot more room for corruption - and I've seen it firsthand.

[yurbud]

25. as a teacher, administrator, parent, or what?

[rucky]

28. As a teacher.

They sought IEP students for the extra funding, then cut corners left and right by not serving them.

[yurbud]

38. you should right an article on that.

[BlooInBloo]

27. I think it makes Obama AN EDUCATION TERRORIST!!!!

[Luminous Animal]

32. True to form, BlooinBloo, elevates the discourse.

[BlooInBloo]

34. (blush) I can't take all of the credit. The bottom-of-the-barrel OP pretty much

guaranteed that *anything* I said would be an improvement.

[Vidar]

29. Those for Charter schools are on the wrong side of the class warfare.

[xchrom]

33. kick

[Freddie Stubbs]

37. Many charter schools are run by non-profits

[yurbud]

40. do you have a source on the percentage?

[Deja Q]

39. Whatever is profitable gets money.

And what is decided is profitable is also often suspect.

I wholly disagree with the notion privatization should happen. I've yet to see the trust from the private industry.

[yurbud]

41. do you mean the trustworthiness?