Right-Wing Hatemongering Fueled by Christianity?

[rrneck]

http://www.alternet.org/story/142755/right-wing_hatemongering_fueled_by_christianity?page=entire

The fact is that if you're going to blame one group above all others for the willful ignorance and continuing ugliness of the response to President Obama the best candidate would be the evangelical/fundamentalist community. The angry part of the South Carter spoke of is racist because it's dominated by a certain type of "Christian" culture.

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Are the New Atheists leading us to enlightenment? The problem with the recent New Atheist attacks on Christianity is that they mirror the hostility of the evangelical/fundamentalist subculture toward the secular society that it so disdains. The real answer to the question; "Can Christianity be saved from the Christians?" is not going to be found coming from people like Dawkins, Hitchens and Harris et al. Instead that answer may be found in the life and work of Christians such as former president Jimmy Carter, President Obama, the late writer John Updike, and other public figures from Desmond Tutu to Nelson Mandela who's faith can be taken seriously because of the moral authority given them by their achievements outside the realm of theology.

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The only real answer to the hijacking of Christianity by the Religious Right, the longevity of religion-based racism, and the backward and inward looking movement we now call "American Christianity" is not to talk everyone out a having faith but rather to fight for the humane and ancient thread found within the Christian tradition. Blaming everything on race is too easy.

I'm inclined to let Christianity die a marginalized death. The sooner we leave it behind the sooner we can come up with something better. As far as I'm concerned it jumped the shark a long time ago. But others may still be able to make use of it.

Edited to correct title. Sorry about that. Thanks for the heads up.

[Ian David]

1. Not by Christianity. By chrisTianity. Those who are all-cross and no-Christ. n/t

[Zen Democrat]

2. Or All Blood and No Heart. All DEATH of Jesus and no LIFE of Jesus.

I'd be surprised if many fundamentalists are familiar with the 5th, 6th and 7th chapters of Matthew. Probably never heard of those concepts which comprise the basic teachings of the Christian faith.

Jesus said beware of the wolves in sheeps clothing. These usurpers are now wolves bearing their teeth.

[Echo In Light]

10. Yes. "Prosperity Xians" are a good example.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. Coincidentally, I happen to be listening to an interview with...

Harvey Cox, recently retired Harvard theologian, on the Diane Riehm show.

He is saying that the Southern Baptists, the largest and most influential group of fundies, is waning. The fastest growing group of Christians is the megachurches that preach not doctrine, but works.

Christianity started as a lifestyle imitating Christ, not as a set of doctrines, and it is slowly returning to that. While some still insist on working for "education" (i.e creationism) or "life" (i.e. war is OK, but abortion isn't) most are far more interested in feeding the hungry, housing the homeless, and aiding "the least of us." Peace and nonviolence is also gaining in many of them. "Blessed are the peacemakers" has not been entirely forgotten.

[TxRider]

15. Which is supported by the amount of charity

Which state religious charitable giving in the U.S. is about 100 billion annually, about as much as all governments give to aid combined. It is 1/3 of all charitable giving in the U.S. and by far the largest sector.

And that doesn't count all the volunteer works.

Religion and Christianity is not ruled or defined by the right wing fundie whacko stunts you see in the echo chamber of the current media.

[Raffi Ella]

4. excellent article.

I was going to go off and refer to the reformed evangelical that was on Rachel's show last week who said the Evangelical Culture is a culture of Village Idiots and you can't allow the Village Idiots to run the show...

but this article covered all that and I could not agree more.

America is a Democracy not a Theocracy: Evangelicals are a threat to Our Country and Our way of life and it is way past time they are called out and put in their place.

[Sal316]

5. Wow...

Evangelicals are a threat to Our Country and Our way of life and it is way past time they are called out and put in their place.

Replace that with Muslims, Hispanics, Blacks, or Gays and you sound just like the RW nutbags.

[Raffi Ella]

6. what!?

you gotta be kidding me.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

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[TCJ70]

19. Or Jews. n/t

[Raffi Ella]

26. Sal

Let me explain to why you're wrong.

Evangelicals are a sect of Christians not Christianity itself. Evangelicals have proven themselves to be no different than say the Taliban...

The only way your logic would make ANY sense whatsoever is if you'd put terrorist in front of Muslim/Gays etc. -and if you HAD put it in the right context you'd be proving MY point so, yeah.

You're wrong.

[Sal316]

28. Let me explain to you why you're wrong.

Evangelicals are not a sect of Christianity. In fact, most evangelicals attend churches that are either non-denominational or Protestant.

But perhaps the biggest reason why you're wrong is....

....I'm an evangelical Christian. So you're saying I'm no different than the Taliban. You're saying that I'm "a threat to Our Country and Our way of life and it is way past time they are called out and put in their place."

Are there asshole evangelicals? Yes.

But painting them with such a broad brush is dangerous.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

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[marmar]

7. Moyers?

n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. I second that question - article seems to have no connection to Moyers; written by Frank Schaeffer

Maybe the thread starter will edit their title in the next half hour ...

[liberal N proud]

8. The conclusion gave two reasons Christianity should be saved

One is the morality it should provide.

There needs to be something provide a guide for morality. Right now Christianity has been hijacked and not able to fulfill that need.

[alarimer]

32. Christianity is not necessary for morality.

That little fucking piece of bullshit needs to die right now.

Atheist are a lot more moral that these religious assholes. Christians think they can get away with ANYTHING because they are "forgiven" in advance apparently no matter what it is that they do. So they can turn around and cheat on their wives, their taxes, at golf or whatever.

Atheists know there is only one chance to get it right. When was they last time you heard of a bunch of atheists flying planes into building? So many crimes committed in the name of religion and almost none committed in the name of atheism.

[Enthusiast]

39. +1, alarimer.

From what I have observed, atheists are, in fact, more moral than these religious assholes. The worst people I know, the least moral people I can think of, those that shout how "Christian" they are, have reinforced this time and again.

[Enthusiast]

40. Yup. +1

"Christianity is not necessary for morality."

"That little fucking piece of bullshit needs to die right now."

Don't we wish.

[TxRider]

11. Are they the ACORN of the right?

[el_bryanto]

17. No- Christianity has some deficiencies in that regard

For one thing most Americans still self identify as Christian - you might not want to believe that but it's true. Secondly of those who are not Christian, a significant number are religiously inclined are unlikely to warm up on an attack on another religion, particularly one from the New Atheists. Because it's hard to say that Christians are stupid for believing in an invisible God without also saying Muslims, Jews, and others are kind of stupid as well.

What makes Acorn such a great target, particularly for White America, is that we don't know to many people in that field; ACORN seems alien to most Americans, so we, as a nation, are willing to buy off on those accusation. Now lets be clear; I think there is a lot in the ACORN situation we don't know, but that's the mentality.

An attack or accusation on a group that we do like or respect will have a lot harder threshold to cross.

I would say a better and narrower target would be the Family or Dominionists.

Bryant

[waiting]

33. The "Family" or Dominionists

are exactly what real Christians should be denouncing. The Family or the Fellowship are not truly Christian organizations. They are political and influence our international policies and have a lot to do with the Military Industrial Complex. The Family is all about anti-communism, anti-union, anti-labor, anti-women's equality and making the most money for right wing covert operations. Dominionists actualy want to bring about Armegeddon, and the second coming and use their infuence to shape events that will quicken the end of our present world and institute the world that Jesus will rule over for the next 1000 years.

[me b zola]

25. ACORN does good works

rw theocrats do harm. So the answer to your question is no.

[MemeSmith]

12. No matter how happy clappy you dress it up...

Christianity is based upon human sacrifice, as payment for your transgressions.

If you have a spiritual system that argues that the most perfectly divine being in existence thinks that such a requirement is an expression of divinity, you have a fundamental problem, that no amount of virtuous individual achievement can escape.

There is, perhaps, some hope in the radical theology of the likes of the Sea of Faith network, but their particular brand of Christianity is only separated from spiritual atheism by their refusal to admit it. (Personally, I can't see the difference between their "The existence of God is a non-realist one" and "God doesn't really exist.")

If you want to drop the sacrifice theory and just use Christianity as a moral system (selectively filtering out the useful maxims and dropping the bits about executing wives who aren't virgins, etc.) you're left with little more than an exhortation to 'be good' and in that case, I'd rather quote E.T. than any mythological personage.

[leftstreet]

13. +1

Welcome to DU!

[Manifestor_of_Light]

27. Extremely primitive and violent thinking.

Animal sacrifice and cannibalism through Communion - eating the symbolic blood and body of your savior will make you god-like...that is QUITE PRIMITIVE THINKING.
That's just as bad as thinking "If I eat lion meat, I will be big and strong like the lion".

There are several ancient civilizations who did not go along those violent and cruel ways.

I am not following the morality of a bunch of ignorant illiterate goatherders, and I see no reason to exalt their morality as anything good. The OT and NT are all about hating black people, condoning slavery, treating women and children as chattel, random killing of children because god is a psychotic mass murdering bastard, praising Abraham for being willing to kill his only son because an angel told him to (?????!!!?), killing people who eat shellfish and wear polyester/cotton blend shirts, on and on and on.

Bad, psychotic, judgmental bullshit.

[QC]

30. No. Penal substitution is only one theory of atonement.

There are at least five. Penal substitution is the preferred approach of fundagelicals, who do not speak for all of Christianity, as much as they--and those who hate them--would like to believe so.

[MemeSmith]

37. Request for education

Now, I can concede that I was only taught one brand of Christianity, and my other main exposure to Christian ideas has been two former fundamentalist sisters.

That being said, my understanding is that the basic deal is this:

I'm a sinner.
This sin has to be paid for.
Jesus' death paid for it, if I accept that payment.
Otherwise, I have to pay for it myself (eternal fire).

In unofficial business circles, this is known as a protection racket. You make a threat then sell a solution.

Are you telling me that there is another kind of Christianity, where Jesus' death means nothing?

Sincerely interested.

[DavidDvorkin]

16. Oh, those aren't reeeeaaal Christians.

[TheKentuckian]

18. What does Reichwing nuttery have to do with Christianity?

Nothing. Fundies seldom even speak about Christ. Its all isolated passages of the OT and carefully selected preachings of Paul. Reich Wingers are working around the clock to produce a Christless "Christian" philosophy based on "prosperity". Jesus is too anti-authoritarian and socialist for them to discuss anymore so they are edit/deleting him to fit a belief system that has less than zero to do with Jesus other than a mention to close prayers.

I bet you could watch CBN or TBN for weeks without any discussion of Jesus other than a "thank you Jesus" and a few "in Jesus' name" to wish for money so it can be passed on to them and conservative causes.

[el_bryanto]

20. If you asked right wing nutters if their beliefs were basded on Christianity, what would they say ?

The majority anyway.

Bryant

[onenote]

23. If you asked African Americans if their beliefs were based on Christianity what would they say?

A greater percentage of African Americans than whites identify themselves as Christian and African Americans attend church more regularly than whites.

Does that mean that African Americans are "right wing nutters"

Of course not.

We should be careful about attributing cause and effect where there is none

[Name removed]

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[MisterP]

22. I call them "sandwich Christians," since they care only about the first and last books of the Bible:

Genesis and Revelations, with maybe some cherry-picked laws from Deuteronomy or Leviticus
they don't really READ the rest of the thing, heaven forbid, and their SoBaptist conventions and Dallas Theological Seminaries are just think tanks, designed to justify 1830s ideas or get them into the open--not come up with new ideas
problem is, fundamentalism is good at going to ground, since it's highly local: just local pastors or a child-devouring paterfamilias can run each congregation and direct their fears accordingly. In fact, the whole doctrine of Tribulation ties in with their isolationism from mainstream society: they either want to hide from its uncleanliness, or act as a cabal and direct society. The revivalist fundamentalism of Aimee Semple McPherson and Billy Sunday went downhill after Scopes and 1933 (though that didn't stop it from appearing in corny pulp SF like Amazing's 40s stories). It was the quasi-hippie Jesus Freaks of the late 60s, soul-baring (or cultish) deeply personal confessions, and prominent, "respectable" evangelicals like Billy Graham, that warmed up a rebirth of evangelicalism and fundamentalism. Then came Hal Lindsey in 1969, inspired by the Six-Day War, and all Hell broke loose (literally).
on edit, Schaeffer's quite right not to trust hatemongers in general, even if they doll up their cry of "RAHOWA" by insisting that it's a "culture clash" or "self-defense against the vile Islamists" or "invading/torturing Muslims is okay" or "liberating those brown women from their own culture"

[RedCloud]

24. Mighty Hercules avenge yourself of those title of adoration usurpers.

Yes Herc,

You were the Prince of Peace, the Good Shepherd, the Son of Man and even the Savior after your voluntary self immolation.

You who were born to an Earth woman and your father was Zeus.

[saltpoint]

29. As Shaw said, "Christianity might be a good thing if anybody ever tried it."

It looks to me as if the people who are shrieking the loudest about their "Christianity" aren't Christians at all.

They're just loud.

[alarimer]

31. This is so true.

They are hateful.

I have had encounters with these so-called Christians at work, albeit in a milder form.

They were astonished and aghast that I refused to participate in their prayer circle jerk at a going-away for a colleague the other week. Aside from the inappropriateness of the setting (in the workplace, although at lunch, and in a state agency), it is just plain uncalled-for to force your religion on everyone else. This was a sectarian prayer, not some generic, inclusive kind of thing either.

I will have my revenge though, one day. At my going-away, should that ever happen, I plan to read from other religious texts. Maybe the Koran. Or do some pagan or Buddhist prayer. Just to turn the tables a bit. When the religious assholes turn out to be offended by it, I will tell them "now you know what it feels like".

I disagree with the accomodationist tone of this article. You will not kill them with kindness. This type of Christian is utterly clueless and utterly insensitive to anyone else. I love the new atheists, though. We have to attack religious shitheads with their own medicine. Accommodating the bullshit will never work. Those assholes will always whine about being persecuted. Fuck them and the selective reading of the Bible.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

34. Most of these "Christians".....

.....would call the cops if they saw Jesus walking in their neighborhood.

[harry_pothead]

38. I personally think organized religion is a blight upont this planet.