9/11: Why did they attack us?

[IdaBriggs]

And don't give me that "they hate us for our freedom" crap.

Its eight years later, thousands of people have been interrogated, held in Gitmo, and we've invaded TWO COUNTRIES with uncountable dead. The media has devoted countless hours to telling tales of "That Day."

What did they hope to accomplish? Did they want our attention? (Yes, they got it.)

I still have no idea why they did it.

I don't think the vast majority of the people in this country do either.

But it sure made a lot of Republican Elite Very Rich.

At least when Timothy McVeigh bombed Oklahoma City, I kind of had a clue: he was a nut-job who hated the government, who didn't realize "we the people" means as a voter, he *is/was* part of the government. He was making a symbolic protest that really accomplished nothing (except killing/maiming innocent people). He was a cowardly man with deep emotional problems and extremely poor judgment (plus I think I mentioned he was a nut-job).

The people who got in the planes were willing TO DIE for ... something. I'm still not sure what. To prove they could attack us? To prove the importance of "back up" systems? To prove there really were people out there who weren't happy with us, even if we were ignoring them?

I remember where I was. I was in my living room crying over a recent miscarriage. My personal grief over that incident will forever be intermingled with the events that happened half a country away.

Its eight years later and I still don't know why they did it.

:shrug:

[ejpoeta]

1. Maybe it has to do with the fact that we go arond bullying other countries and

telling them what to do and how they should be and then go and get involved via the CIA or whatever to try to get people killed or overthrown or whatever. We go around acting like we are better than everyone else and know everything..... and we should be the only ones to have the nuclear weapons..... and we think we are better than everyone else.

[valerief]

2. Maybe they read PNAC's need for a new Pearl Harbor and they

were being generous by giving BushCo exactly what it wanted. After all, bin Laden worked for the U.S. before 9/11.

[Echo In Light]

17. Precisely. 'They' attacked in order to bolster public support for the prearranged PNAC plans

[Bolo Boffin]

29. Al Qaeda was concerned about trimming down the Pentagon budget? n/t

[malaise]

73. DIng ding

I think we have a winner.

[Sezu]

3. Because they were murdering fucking terrorists

That's why.

[Xipe Totec]

4. They wanted us out of Saudi Arabia n/t

[Nederland]

6. Ding Ding Ding. We have a winner.

That is the (original) reason Osama Bin Laden gave, and I see no reason to not believe him.

You could also blame the Palestinian situation and our support for Israel, but a review of the record shows that Bin Laden was late to the party when it came to talking about Palestine.

[AntiFascist]

47. I would also note their desire...

to have us defeat Saddam Hussein once and for all. Saddam, who had previously invaded Kuwait.

[Chemical Bill]

63. Ahem...

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

Bin Laden says he wasn't behind attacks
September 17, 2001 Posted: 11:21 AM EDT (1521 GMT)

DOHA, Qatar (CNN) -- Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden, the man the United States considers the prime suspect in last week's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington, denied any role Sunday in the actions believed to have killed thousands....

I see no reason not to believe him either.

[timtom]

71. But, why did Osama bin Laden deny any involvement in those actions?

[SalviaBlue]

7. Nice of Bush to comply, wasn't it.

[KansDem]

23. But... But... We don't deal with terrorists!

...Do we?

[Nederland]

8. Self Delete

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

9. Well that and the cool decoder rings for members. nt

[dysfunctional press]

18. and they got exactly what they wanted. it was a VERY successful attack.

the terrorists definitely won.

[librechik]

26. yeah, they wanted us destroyed economically too

they almost have that as well.

[A HERETIC I AM]

5. One of the reasons..

(or so the conventional wisdom goes) is that the United States had a military presence in Saudi Arabia, considered Muslim holy ground. Bin Laden used this in part as his justification for his jihad against the US.

[Nederland]

10. Let me be the first to say...

THEY DID NOT ATTACK US! GEORGE BUSH AND DICK CHENEY STAGED THE WHOLE THING AND ANY SANE PERSON LOOKING AT HOW THOSE BUILDINGS FELL DOWN KNOWS THAT"S THE TRUTH! I PERSONALLY SAW CHENEY AND HIS WIFE WIRING BOMBS IN THE BASEMENT OF WTC1!!!

I SWEAR!

[krispos42]

11. Because we've killed directly and indirectly millions of Muslims

We create and/or support tyrannical regimes, we overthrow legitimate (and occassionally even representative) Muslim governments if they don't play nice with us and our corporations that harvest resources of national security (oil, usually).

We openly advocate for secular government, something very wrong under the Koran.

We can't or do don't much to help the Palestinians. Of course, neighboring Arab nations don't either.

We had a dumbshit president that declared this a "crusade". Which, to the long memories of the Arabs and Muslims, means reliving the times when Christians fought Muslims in the Middle East in the name of Christ and God. This aforementioned dumbshit president personally (and the party that's unfortunate enough to have him as a member) proudly and loudly kisses the asses of the evangelican right-wing Christian base of this county in every public venue possible. So they basically think that America wants a lot of dead Muslims. And our actions reinforce that.

And then we refuse to even have the ghost of a though that there's a chance that their hatred might be vaguely reality-based, and instead declare stupid shit like "they hate us for our freedoms".

[deaniac21]

42. Actually, the crusade thing happened after 9/11.

[krispos42]

44. True

That is true, I missed that... :-)

[Betty Karlson]

51. The crusade happened after 9/11, but not the murdering

of millions of Muslems.

Meddling in the Middle-East, the West has encouraged civil wars, revolutions, and general trampling of democracy in Algeria, Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia, Eritrea, Yemen (alright, that was actually the Soviet Union), Lebanon, Syria, Jordania, Iraq, Iran (Persia at the time), Afghanistan, Pakistan... Sometimes decades at a time. Imagine how many lives were lost.

[slackmaster]

12. They were religious fanatics, pissed off because of US military presence in Saudi Arabia

And economic reasons.

[Caliman73]

67. Religious fanatacism typically comes as a result of a lack of other options

People who feel powerless to have an effect even in their daily lives, who are gripped by fear and hatred are more likely to be fanatically religious and easily lead by militants under that guise. The economic reasons are intertwined, but it is easier to get people to die for God or country than it is to die for the purpose of someone else's money.

[butterfly77]

13. Bush and cheney's ..

interference in their affairs and baiting them behind the scenes..

[kentuck]

14. Why does a dog lick its balls?

because it can.

They attacked us because they could. Our leaders were asleep at the wheel while ignoring every alarm going off all around them.

[Tikki]

15. What I remember is one of the news ladies, on day two, talking about how we...

needed to have a public dialog on why something like this would happen to our country...

Day three... she got the official memo...they hate us for our freedoms..and the truth got buried under
those six words.

Hopefully, not forever.


Tikki

[lib2DaBone]

22. Sept 11th postponed Great Depression II another 8 years....

The coincidental timing of 911 postponed the economic train wreck that wiped out almost 80% of retirment accounts after the dot com bust and following decline in high Tech Stocks in 2000.

It created a brand new "industry" in Security and Terrorism which gave us such things as Homeland Security, the TSA, instant war in Iraq and Afghanistan.. and no-bid sweetheart contracts to Haliburtan and Blackwater.

It also gave Bush and Greenspan time to implement an easy money policy which fueled the housing bubble and kept the economy on life-support for another 8 years.

After 8 years we still have not arrested the people responsible for 911. Where is Bin Laden? Does he even exist or is he just a cartoon character created by Washington?

Just 'sayin....

[Echo In Light]

30. Solid points

[slipslidingaway]

40. Totally agree, and which day was the market the low in 2002, the IWR vote...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2013733&mesg_id=2013733

Two Significant Anniversaries Today

Wed Oct-10-07

The stock market lows on 10/10/02 and the vote in the House to authorize military force against Iraq.


http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml

H J RES 114 YEA-AND-NAY 10-Oct-2002 3:05 PM
QUESTION: On Passage
BILL TITLE: To Authorize the Use of United States Armed Forces Against Iraq


http://www.prophet.net/default.jsp

[LeftinOH]

16. Religious fanatics. The promise of 74 virgins (each? or were they gonna have to share them?)

[deaniac21]

45. 72

[n2doc]

19. David Sylvian wrote about it in a song:

And the buildings fall
In a cloud of dust
And we ask ourselves
How could they hate us?
Well, when we live in ignorance and luxury
While our super powers practice
Puppet mastery

We raise the men
Who run the fascist states
And we sell them arms
So they maintain their place

We turn our backs
On the things they done
Their human rights record
And the guns they run

His world is suffering
Her world is suffering
Their world is suffering
World citizen

My world is suffering
Your world is suffering
Our world is suffering
World citizen

Who'll do away with flags?
Who'll do us proud?
Remove the money from their pockets
Scream dissent out loud?

Cos god ain't on our side
The shoe won't fit
And though they think the war is won
That's not the last of it

Disenfranchised people
Need their voices heard
And if no one stops to listen
Lose their faith in words

And violence rises
When all hope is lost
Who'll embrace the human spirit
And absorb the cost?

Not one life is taken
In my name
In my name

His world is suffering
Her world is suffering
Their world is suffering
World citizen

My world is suffering
Your world is suffering
Our world is suffering
World citizen

[dysfunctional press]

21. not really...

he didn't even mention saudi arabia.
bin laden'ns main reason for attacking us was because they wanted u.s. troops out of saudi arabia. and they got exactly what they wanted.

[Echo In Light]

24. Dumb luck that "he" just happen to pick the very day all of those NRO exercises were ongoing!

[Betty Karlson]

33. NRO?

Should I be familiar with this abbreviation?

[TexasObserver]

20. "They"

Which "they" are we talking about?

THEY - the alleged 19, of whom 15 were Saudis?

THEY - the alleged Taliban/UBL/Pakistani Intelligence?

THEY - the PNAC core and its plan to revamp the world under Imperial USA?

THEY - the illusive "evildoers" who "hate our ways" and want to end them?


Assuming arguendo that the official story is true in all respects, THEY did it because they resent control of their region by Western powers.

[KansDem]

25. "THEY - the alleged 19, of whom 15 were Saudis?"

And two were from the UAE. I always found it intriguing that 17 or the 19 attackers (89%) were from countries that were either friends and business partners of the Bush family or connected with Cheney's Halliburton.

Yet we attacked Iraq...:shrug:

[Echo In Light]

28. PNAC

[TexasObserver]

64. Yes, they were from Allied countries, which explains why we attacked Iraq.

[KansDem]

27. It was a "twofer"

1) The Saudis wanted us out of Saudi Arabia
2) Bush and PNAC wanted a war with Iraq

See how wonderfully the world works when we all cooperate?

[Betty Karlson]

31. Have you read Fisk?

The English journalist Robert Fisk spoke to Bin-Laden on three occasions. Although biased, his book "the great war for civilisation" gives some insight into the motives of people who wanted to hurt the U.S. on 9/11.

The 1400+ pages give a recount of:

- Post WW I cutting up of the Middle-East, in such a way that it would provoke tensions
- Meddling in Middle-Eastern democracies because they were too "left", leaving islamists as the only alternative for semi-dictatorships sponsored by the west.
- Torture, over and over again.
- Betrayal, several times, of ethnic minorities.
- An unbelievable death toll of over 600.000 children in Iraq; the consequence of U.S. depleted uranium in the first Gulf War. These deaths were, to Bin-Laden, directly related to the presence of American soldiers on Saudi soil.
- More dead people because of trade boycots.
- And the list goes on and on and on...

He relates how the Taliban were able to train themselves, sponsored by the west, during the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Have you seen the James Bond movie "from Russia with love"? I believe the protagonist at some point describes the Taliban as "our allies", and they are depicted as friendly and helpfull. Were our governments as misstaken as 007?

When the second plane hit the World Trade Centre, my mother screamed at me: "The plane was hijacked! They said so on the news!" When I saw the footage, I thought they were Palestinians - I knew no other people committing suicide bombings. Apparently Fisk, sitting in a plane, immediatey guessed the man responsible. Which is why I recommend his book to you.

[Echo In Light]

36. "I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important....

...It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

And aside from fighting tooth and nail against ANY investigation, the Bush/Cheney admin also refused to provide any proof of bin Laden's involvement in 9/11. The FBI has admitted they have no hard evidence connecting Osama bin Laden to 9/11.

[Betty Karlson]

41. Even so, there is that memo from August 2001:

"Bin-Laden determined to strike in U.S."

Just because the evidence is not conclusive doesn't mean there isn't a strong suspicion. Guilt only has to be proven beyond "reasonable" doubt.

For instance, it is beyond reasonable doubt that the Bush administration never really cared about Bin-Laden, since his tunnel-vision left little room for foreign involvement not connected to Iraq. This in spite of outgoing president Clinton's warning, that terrorism should be closely monitored.

[deaniac21]

46. What does depleted mean?

[Betty Karlson]

50. Depleted uranium is a common counterweight in aircraft

- including missiles - and is also used in radiation therapy.

It is distinguished from natural uranium because of its isotopic mass, its high density (19.1g/cm3), and its relatively low radiation (about 60 % of the radiation of natural uranium). It is a byproduct of the process of enrichment of uranium.

In high quantities, it increases the risk of cancer.

[lib2DaBone]

52. Piper Cub Training did not fly Jet Airliners into the WTC

... MSM would have us believe that a terrorist with 20 hours training in a Cessna 150... climbed into the cockpit of a sophisticated 747 and flew it at top speed through downtown New York into the WTC.

Military Fighter pilots with thousands of combat hours have reported that, those maneuvers (at that speed) are almost IMPOSSIBLE for anyone but an EXCEPTIONAL Jet Pilot.

[Betty Karlson]

53. Even if we were to accede to the idea

that these hijackers, eight years ago, were exceptional pilots, we are still left with the question of their motivation.

No-one would be willing to kill himself "because Mr Cheney told me so". As such, it seems we come back at Mr Bin-Laden's "inspiring" sermons.

However, I never said the wahhabite movement Mr Bin-Laden belongs to was not infiltrated by someone else. So if you want to look for involvement à la Oliver North in Saudian civil initiatives abroad (Al-Qaeda), the work of the Saudian police should interest you.

(Mind you: this is a conditional suggestion, not an accusation of Saudian policemen in general or the Saudian government in general.)

[Liberation Angel]

57. All the hijackers had to do was kill the pilots. lock door and await further instruction

remote piloting takes over and voila.

Cheney clicks on the target and boom.

Instant tyranny by the Fourth Reich.

[Betty Karlson]

69. Sorry. Not buying that.

For instance, is it that hard to believe that an administration as preoccupied as Bush's could be crossed by someone who had been planning for years (and who had waited until Clinton had left office)?

[deaniac21]

54. Like John Travolta?

[Barack_America]

32. To establish themselves as the most effective terrorist organization...

And corner the market on donations to terrorist groups from individuals frustrated by American foreign policy, particularly in the mideast.

Osama Bin Laden was a highly successful terrorism entrepreneur. And an evil son of a bitch, of course.

[blm]

34. Because BCCI matters were covered up throughout 90s allowing the global terror networks AND their

powerful financiers to go free and no longer scrutinized.

The terror networks were funded for decades by the moneylaundering, drugrunning and armsdealing of GHWBush, Dubai and Saudi royals and their cronies like Jackson Stephens - GLOBAL FASCISTS intent on maintaining their grip on the world's economy and its resources. Using terror networks to help achieve that goal.

[The Straight Story]

35. Why do beat their loved ones, why does some person shoot others in a school?

Some people have issues - right or wrong - and confront those issues with violence.

[Liberation Angel]

37. It was MIHOP. Osama was the Cheney Patsy.

I have no doubt that this was a false flag operation run from within the private intelligence/military community by Cheney and Bush senior with the approval of Bush (Dubya).

Northwoods implemented.

The Fourth Reich's 20th Century Reichstag Fire (when the Nazis burned the German Parliament and set up a patsy mentally deficient former communist as the perp even though it was set by Nazi party members on the orders of Hitler's henchmen - they passed a "Patriot Act" and suspended the constitution and made Hitler dictator and jailed all opposition politicians or murdered them)

Rememeber that Prescott Bush and his father in law Walker (The "W" in Dubya) were FINANCING Hitler when the Reichstag Fire was set by Bush agents. That is a historical fact. One day the Truth will be fully known and won't we be ashamed for all the deaths in the Middle East wars done in our name because we were FOOLS for Bush and Cheney.

Anyone who believes that 9-11 was run by Osama without the control of Bush and his treasonous thugs and killers and assassins is deluding themselves. Or is simply ignorant of the facts and the evidence.

The war against the taliban is just a charade. They had nothing to do with it.

[libodem]

38. Without reading any of the above

because Cheney needed his new 'Pearl Harbor'. Prince Bandar and his wife set it up and funneled money to the secret Saudis whom were already in the country. I believe it was planned from the get go. Bush jumped on the racial profiling early in 2000 but not because it was being used on young black guys, but his buddies the Middle-Easterners. Follow the money.

[Liberation Angel]

39. Agreed. See my post # 37. It was planned by Bush I and Cheney from the gitgo.

If they hadn't stolen the election in 2000 9-11 would never have happened.
Gore would have stopped it. He would NOT have ignored the threat or undermined the investigations.

[Echo In Light]

43. Yes. And there's little chance that MANY didn't know what was coming down the pike.

And fulfilled their roles accordingly.

[Liberation Angel]

49. And they made BILLIONS from the attack (Bush et al)

how can so many be so stupid as to believe this was done by rookie patsies with boxcutters.

These were targeted attacks (I believe remotely controlled- probably from Cheney's own hand)

[deaniac21]

55. I didn't know Cheney was a pilot.

[Liberation Angel]

56. Remote controls. Maybe he was a gamer.

He didn't have to pilot. He just needed to point the mouse and click on the part of the building he wanted it to go into for most deadly effect.

[deaniac21]

62. You have to use the same controls to fly remotely.

[deaniac21]

48. And global warming would have been stopped in it's tracks.

[earth mom]

58. Wake up-9/11 was MIHOP or LIHOP done by * & Co.

Quit trying to justify the killing of millions of INNOCENT people in the Middle East. It's disgusting. :puke:

[polly7]

59. This is an older documentary done by the Fifth Estate

It doesn't come to any conclusions but the relationships are interesting, if nothing else.

http://www.cbc.ca/fifth/conspiracytheories/saudi.html

[thelordofhell]

60. David Cross said it best......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6UOcmbHrDY

[Gregorian]

61. If true, I saw a documentary that told why. Bin Laden got an idea

Osama saw an American bomb take down a building. And was inspired to return the destruction in a similar way.

This was one of the Linktv documentaries. A station that also has Amy Goodman. Not some Fox noise broadcast.

Why else would someone disrupt their life to create hell.

But it also fit neatly into the PNAC designs.

[TK421]

65. Ida...something tells me we'll never completely know the truth about it

what the motivations were behind it. They sure did send a message, though...that America truly is vulnerable. Think about it: two buildings in one major American city is all it took to bring this country to hysteria and outrage against an entire religion once we found out who was responsible for it... I live outside Philadelphia and they had closed down all the bridges that day, and people were STILL walking around with a dazed looked on their faces that day...I saw it, I was scared and so were those close to me that day. Bin Laden is laughing every 9/11 to this day because...well...he can still laugh

[wildbilln864]

66. Because the PNACers and their proponents needed them to.

Able Danger!

[omega minimo]

68. Because they knew they could get away with it.

:evilfrown:

[Douglas Carpenter]

70. Imagine for a moment that America and the West had been under a century of Islamic dominance

Just imagine for a moment that the power relationships of the world were the other way around. Imagine if a powerful Islamic state and their allies decided where I borders were, what governments in Europe and North American were legitimate and which were illegitimate. Imagine the armed forces of these powerful states totally surrounded us on all sides to insure that our raw materials were devoted to satisfying their demands.

Would there not be an opposition to this world order?

Thomas Jefferson once said that he wished he could sink the whole Island of Great Britain into the sea. Extreme conditions produces extremism.

The REAL threat of Islamic extremism is aided and abetted by policies that cannot possibly have any other outcome than the promotion of more and more Islamic extremism.

Thirty years ago almost all political opposition throughout the Middle East and the Islamic world was expressed by secular movements; both nationalist and leftist; political Islam was a small marginal and fringe movement.

Political Islam grew in currency and strength when secularist movements failed - and I might add they grew in currency and strength with the active encouragement of the United States.

Every bomb that lands on the land or house of some poor farmer, every person who is hassled at some remote checkpoint, every expansion of every settlement and expropriation of every piece of land - every intrusion that no one of ANY race creed or colour would EVER find acceptable recruits more and more Islamic extremist.

Every bit of propaganda that makes Western people less and less sensitive to the people of the Islamic world - Every word and policy that encourages an even more belligerent and confrontational policy - does NOT fight Islamic extremism, it creates conditions to promote it. And frankly, I am quite certain that those doing so know that.

[DailyGrind51]

72. Because we remained in Saudi Arabia after we promised to leave?

[Lagomorph]

74. Osama claimed it was...

...in retaliation for the cruise missiles we attacked him with, in Afghanistan, after the embassy bombings in Kenya & Tanzania.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1998_United_States_embassy_bombings

In the 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings (August 7, 1998) hundreds of people were killed in simultaneous truck bomb explosions at the United States embassies in the East African capital cities of Dar es Salaam, Tanzania and Nairobi, Kenya. The attacks, linked to local members of the Egyptian Islamic Jihad brought Osama bin Laden and Ayman al-Zawahiri to American attention for the first time, and resulted in the U.S. Federal Bureau of Investigation placing bin Laden on its Ten Most Wanted list.

Along with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing, the 1996 Khobar Towers bombing in Saudi Arabia, and the 2000 attack on the USS Cole in Yemen, the Embassy Bombing is one of the major anti-American terrorist attacks that preceded the September 11, 2001 attacks.

The bombings were scheduled for August 7, the eighth anniversary of the arrival of American troops in Saudi Arabia, ostensibly a deliberate choice by Osama bin Laden.<4>

According to journalist Lawrence Wright, the Nairobi operation was named after the Holy Kaaba in Mecca; the Dar es Salaam bombing was called Operation al-Aqsa in Jerusalem, but "neither had an obvious connection to the American embassies in Africa. Bin Laden initially said that the sites had been targeted because of the "invasion" of Somalia; then he described an American plan to partition Sudan, which he said was hatched in the embassy in Nairobi. He also told his followers that the genocide in Rwanda had been planned inside the two American embassies."

Wright concludes that none of these claims made sense, and that bin Laden's actual goal was "to lure the United States into Afghanistan, which had long been called 'The Graveyard of Empires.'"<5> According to a 1998 memo authored by Mohammed Atef and seized by the FBI, around the time of the attacks, al-Qaeda had both an interest in and specific knowledge of negotiations between the Taliban and the American-led gas pipeline consortium CentGas.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_missile_strikes_on_Afghanistan_and_Sudan_%28August_1998%29


About 75 cruise missiles landed in Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan at four militant training camps around Khost and Jalalabad: three camps in the Jarawah area near Khost, one of which, El Farouq, trained primarily Afghan Arabs, and Al Badr camp 10 miles to the west which also trained Afghan Arabs and was directed by bin Laden.<7> The Khost camp, Zawhar Kili, was a summit meeting place for senior Arab leaders of Islamic militant organizations labeled as terrorist groups by NATO and linked to bin Laden. <8> The attack was made partly in an attempt to assassinate him and other leaders. <9> After the attack, the CIA heard that bin Laden had been at Zawhar Kili but had left some hours before the missiles hit.<10> As to the precise length of time between when bin Laden is thought to left the camp, and when the missile impacts occurred, there is some difference of opinion depending on information sources.

According to Pakistani journalist Ahmed Rashid, the Al Badr camp controlled by bin Laden and Muawai camps run by the Pakistani Harkat-ul-Mujahideen<11> were the main targets. However, Harkat-ul-Mujahideen was training to fight Indian troops in Kashmir, not Americans.<12> According to Rashid, 20 Afghans, seven Pakistanis, three Yemenis, two Egyptians, one Saudi and one Turk were killed.

[cigsandcoffee]

75. I think a large part of it is that fundamentalists find our culture to be a threat.

The see popular Western culture, as portrayed in art, media, and so forth, as a direct threat to their traditional way of life - the empowerment of women, the acceptence of homosexuality, a declining interest in religion...

To say "they hate us for our freedoms" is obviously an ignorant thing. But it is fair to say that Islamic fundamentalists simply do not want the youth of their culture to be infected with what they see as Western decadence.

Of course, there's our foreign policy and meddling in their areas, as well. It's a rich tapestry.

[the inner lite]

76. So you believe the official story of Timothy McVeigh, too?

:eyes:

[alarimer]

77. Because we are the best country ever and they are just jealous?

:sarcasm:

(as if that was needed).

Because we meddle in other countries. We armed the Afghans against the Soviet but left them in the cold after that. We ignored everything that was happening there and it caught us unawares.