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Why hasn't Colonel Joe Wilson Been Charged Under Article 88 Of The UCMJ?

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:02 PM
Original message
Why hasn't Colonel Joe Wilson Been Charged Under Article 88 Of The UCMJ?
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 08:03 PM by WeDidIt
“Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.”


Throw the fucking book at the bastard.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Because he's a reservist and not subject to the UCMJ until activated, I believe. (nt)
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM
Original message
Well, he should be activated then! Stop-loss! n/t
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM by Ian David
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Hee. (nt)
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Maybe somebdoy from the Senate can approach him on the House floor
and beat him with a cane.

IT would sort of make up for the South Carolina Congressman who approached a Senator in the Senate chambers and beat him with a cane.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. I keep saying canes should be reintroduced as fashion pieces.. (nt)
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Advocating felony assault against someone for speech you don't like. Not very progressive.
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FLDCVADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. You are correct
Plus, he's retired.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. He is not subject to UCMJ. Retired in 2003. n/t
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. I don't know whether he can or not, but
this Major General thinks it's possible:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/sleuth/2009/09/did_joe_wilson_violate_house_r.html

Retired Major General Paul Eaton, who has become a de facto Democratic spokesman on national security issues, says Wilson, a retired Colonel, may have violated military codes of conduct as well.

Writing on The Huffington Post, Eaton takes exception with Wilson's defenders who say Wilson is stressed out because his kids are serving in the military.

"Every parent whose children are serving -- as all three of mine are -- can respect the strain Col. Wilson might be feeling, and thank him for his sacrifice," Eaton writes. "Yet I would never expect to hear anything but the greatest respect for the elected President of the United States from these men and women, regardless of their political persuasion."

Meanwhile, Wilson's Web site was down and his phone lines were clogged.
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Fire_Medic_Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #12
19. I guess Wesley Clark should be court martialed as well.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #19
23. Gen. Clark was a member of Congress
Edited on Fri Sep-11-09 12:47 AM by sabrina 1
and called a POTUS a liar on the House floor in the middle of a speech about policy?

But, even if that were the case, no. Wilson's behavior doesn't warrant a court martial. Bad as his behavior was, I don't think it rises to that level according to the UCMJ.

However, even though he is retired, that doesn't mean he could not be held to account by the military for his behavior, as the major general said.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Uniform+Code+of+Military+Justice

The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) was enacted by Congress in 1950 (10 U.S.C.A. § 801 et seq.) to establish a standard set of procedural and substantive criminal laws for all the U.S. military services. (It went into effect the following year.) The UCMJ applies to all members of the military, including those on active duty, students at military academies, prisoners of war, and, in some cases, retired or reserve personnel.


Hard to know which article he could be charged under. Article 15 seems to fit but he is not on active duty. I suppose he could be called in and reprimanded and maybe lose some of his benefits. Not sure a court martial is necessary to let him know how the military feels about what he did.

But the Major General was correct, being retired doesn't let him off the hook, necessarily.

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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. He may have violated the code of conduct but that is a far cry from charges under UCMJ
Wilson being retired can no more be charged under UCMJ then you could for saying something about Bush.

Once he retired he became a civilian and civilians can't be charged under UCMJ.

Sometimes things are simple.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. I think if I went to Congress while Bush was
speaking and called him a liar, I would have been arrested. He wasn't in his living room or a restaurant where he can say what he wants. He violated the House Rules. And being retired, see the link above, doesn't let him off the hook regarding the UCMJ ~ obviously it is not likely to happen, but it could.
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 10:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
16. Is he on Inactive service or did he actually resign his commission?
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 10:45 PM by happyslug
You must understand, technically when Officers leave the service, they can do two things, first go inactive (and if he has 20 years in) go in "half-pay" (What most people call Military retirement). Now technically when an officer goes inactive but is given half-pay in case Congress ever wants to call the Officer back into service so technically he is still on duty but not active and as such subject to the UCMJ. This has been the case since the American Revolution.

Now many officers, in addition to their duties under Half-pay (Which can only be exercised by Congress) have additional reserve time due in some sort of inactive reserve status. Inactive Reserve Status was aimed at enlistees who had served 20 years and then gone on half-pay themselves, but was quickly extended to Officers. The problem with this extension (And I believe this was done while before WWI, but may be part of the Universal Military Service Act of 1947) was enlisted ranks only served for a set number of years and then either have to re-enlist or discharged. Upon the expiration of their enlistment, the military can no longer call them back into service (Right now, people enlist for an Eight year period, four years active and four years inactive, upon re-enlistment this can be extended so many an enlistee with 20 years of service has another 10 years of inactive reserve duty to perform, at the end of that period of inactive service they can no longer be called up for duty).

Officers, on the other hand, have NO set time of service, they serve till their resign. This is even the case when such Officers go on Inactive status. Many Officers, like enlistees, have inactive reserve time so when such Officers leave the service (i.e. go on half-pay) they just go inactive and retain their commissions. At the end of any reserve time the Officer can resign his or her Commission but most do not, for as long as their have that Commission they are treated as Officers by Military Regulations, but once they resign such status their status as officers ends (Unofficial Status as an ex-officer can continue BUT legally such a resignation make the Ex-officer an Ex-Officer).

Do to the connections retaining the Commission brings with it in certain situations, most Officers never resign their commission. Such Officers may never have used the Commission in 30-40 years but retain it for its prestige AND the status it bring the person who holds the Commission. The down side of this is the person is submitting himself to the rules and regulations over Officers as imposed by the UCMJ.

One of the rules in the UCMJ is any officer MUST uphold the political leadership of this Country. Prior to the Passage of the UCMJ in 1954, this was extended to enlistee under the former Articles of War, but Congress changed it in 1954 to apply to officers only do to the case where an American Nazi had been drafted, during WWII, into the US army. Before the American Nazi was drafted he praise Hitler and attack the US war against Germany, after the American Nazi was drafted he continued to do so. The American Nazi was court martial under the Old Articles Of War and the Conviction was upheld upon appeal. People were upset about that decision for it involved an enlistee who had been drafted but the law was clear and had been the law since 1649 when Oliver Cromwell first wrote it (It was "Updated" by the British in 1774 so technically it was the 1774 Version of the Articles of War the US Adopted in 1775 but the 1774 Article was basically the same as the 1649 but updated more for the changes in the English Language between 1649 and 1774 then any other reason).

The same Congress that adopted the Constitution and the Bill of Rights fully accepted the Article of War (to my knowledge Congress made no changes to the Articles of War, except technically changes up till 1954 and the adoption of the UCMJ). Thus the Courts have ruled the Article of War clauses, as a general rule, do NOT violate the Bill of Rights and the American Nazi's conviction was upheld on appeal (No appeal to the US Supreme Court, just the Federal Court of Appeals). Please note that decision was upsetting to many people in the Military, given that we had a draft at that time, thus when the 1954 UCMJ was passed Congress restricted clause to upholding the political leadership to Officers only.

Thus the key is did this Congressman resign his Commission? If he did he is NOT subject to the UCMJ but if he did not, just retired at half pay, then he is subject to the UCMJ. This clause does NOT apply to Enlistees just officers since the passage of the UCMJ in 1954 (Through Bush did issue a military regulation to that effect while he was president, I believe that regulation is unconstitutional for CONGRESS knew what the Articles of War was when CONGRESS changed the law when CONGRESS adopted the UCMJ. The President can pass a regulation, but NOT to undo a change in the law done by Congress, thus the Regulation extending this ban to enlistees, in my opinion, unconstitutional but as to Officers it has been the law since 1649).
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The Velveteen Ocelot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
3. I read somewhere that you have to be on active duty status for the UCMJ to apply,
but I don't know whether that's true.

Somebody sure needs to kick his ass.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
4. He should be both charged with this and censured by Congress...
Edited on Thu Sep-10-09 08:05 PM by polichick
...unless we look forward to more insults at more addresses by the president ~ this one and presidents to follow.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:04 PM
Response to Original message
5. He wasn't in uniform
I prefer to public horse whip instead.
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RoccoR5955 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. tar and feathers would be nice. n/t
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DeadEyeDyck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
9. And we should out his wife
Valerie Flame
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. OK, why the Secretary of Transportation?
Very strange.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
11. Forty lashes would suffice n/t
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dgibby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. He's a retired reservist.
UCMJ doesn't apply, damn the bad luck!
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happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-10-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. Did he resign his Commission?
Most retired officers do not, they just go on Half pay. If he did NOT resign he is still subject to the UCMJ, but if he did that extra step and resigned then he is not.
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Crabby Appleton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Actually retired SC National Guard
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-11-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
21. Becuase he is not on active duty
allow myself to use myself as an example

When I worked my shift down as a medic I was subject to the rules and regulations. When I was not on duty, or to use the US Term on active drill, I was a civilian.

That is why.

Granted, we did tell our people that their actions while off duty may have negative repercussions, so he will not be charged, but his chances of further advancement have come to an abrupt end. Or at least they should...

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