The historian advising Bush on Iraq is a racist. No, really. An honest to God, Nazi racist.

[Hamlette]

Last month, a little-known British historian named Andrew Roberts was swept into the White House for a three-hour-long hug. He lunched with George W. Bush and Dick Cheney, huddled alone with the president in the Oval Office, and was rapturously lauded by him as "great." Roberts was so fawned over that his wife, Susan Gilchrist, told the London Observer, "I thought I had a crush on him, but is it nothing like the crush President Bush has on him."

Much of Roberts's advice to Bush is based on similarly skewed and surreal misreadings of history. For example, he has advised Bush to adopt "the whole idea of mass internment," saying: "I think it is the way the administration of Iraq should go." At his lunch with Bush, according to economist Irwin Stelzer, who was present, Roberts cited Ireland as a place where internment worked.

Every major historian of Ireland--across the political spectrum--says the opposite is the case. When internment was introduced in Northern Ireland in 1971, violence vastly increased--and it only fell when it was abolished. The decision by the British to grab Catholics on the flimsiest evidence and hold them without trial is universally regarded as the greatest recruiting gift the Irish Republican Army was ever handed. "Roberts has no track record as a historian of Ireland," says Brendan O'Leary of the University of Pennsylvania, an expert on both Ireland and counterinsurgency techniques. "If he did, he would know that there is a total historical consensus that internment was a catastrophe."

snip

In his most radical piece of revisionism, Roberts argues that, far from being a "war crime," the concentration camps "were set up for the Boers' protection." Mike Davis of the University of California, Irvine, author of Late Victorian Holocausts, says bluntly: "This is tantamount to Holocaust-denial. His arguments about the Boer concentration camps are similar to the arguments of the Nazi apologists about those camps."

snip

Roberts's raw imperialism informs the advice he offers Bush today. For one, he urges Bush to adopt a supreme imperial indifference to public opinion. He counsels that "there can be no greater test of statesmanship than sticking to unpopular but correct policies." The real threat isn't abroad, but at home, among domestic critics. Roberts writes,

http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?pt=rgEIzSVsAzw1JcO3DnkA6i%3D%3D

Read the whole article (not too long). We gotta get rid of this guy.

(edited for type ... how did that letter "L" get in "White"????)

[Sammy Pepys]

1. Edited to reflect your edit

Still sounds like a jerk though.

[Hamlette]

3. thanks, I clarified my subject line....still, if they are listening to this guy?

it is VERY scary.

[MADem]

No, it sounds like this asshole was a contracted "teacher" for the Monkey -- a tutor if you will.

To help shape his little mind, you see.

[file83]

54. Hired by the Bilderberg Group, no doubt. Gotta keep their President Zombie motivated!

[MADem]

56. Indeed. NT

[Hissyspit]

2. He's defending the invention of concentration camps?

Of course Bush loves him.

This should be a huge scandal.

But it won't be.

[katsy]

6. Well...

that's why the chimp is building them HERE so he won't have to deport people THERE :sarcasm:


edited to add: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/04/national/04halliburton.html?ex=1296709200&en=0172899afda059e4&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[IChing]

9. No it is" Work brings freedom camps' which is totally different.

from concentration camps some may be called "To each his own" camp
made famous at Buchenwald.

I smell a duck.

[aquart]

4. If Bush didn't already agree with him, he wouldn't be listening.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

5. Neocon Nazis.

Sounds like Jr. is gonna take him upstairs for some pole-smokin.

Maybe it'll get his mind off of mass murder.

[file83]

50. Nazi-Con

You heard it here first, folks.

[earthboundmisfit]

7. I wish I could say this is unbelievable

Unfortunately, it makes perfect sense for this pResident to embrace this... :grr:

[BlueManDude]

8. At least he's not "PC"

It's increasingly clear that many people in this country will take the side of a racist over being "PC" any day.

[tom_paine]

10. It is not surprising that a Loyal Nazi is advising the Loyal Bushies

They are one and the same.

And YES, Roberts IS a Nazi, lock stock and barrel. I simply cannot find a nickle's worth of difference between his beliefs and the nazis, if you leave out that Jew-hating thing.

Which is actually a part of Nazism that is still quite alive in their spiritaul descendants, the Loyal Bushies, except they camflauge their hatred of various races, homsexuals, etc. by lumping them together and calling them "liberals".

It is truly brilliant for this generation of Loyal Bushies/Loyal Nazis to have revived naiz rascism with the "plausible deniability" the Loyal Bushie Liar craves.

[Disturbed]

12. It is a Bush family tradition to embrace Nazis.

This has been quite well documented. Busholini is not merely a cute nickname that I use. Gwb is as close to the Musolini doctrine as it gets.

[AndyA]

11. The Nazis and The Bush Crime Family go back a long way.

They've had a close and loving relationship for generations.

Nice to know that they are welcomed into America's home with such open arms and joy...

[Hand]

13. Here's another article on that meeting. PUKE ALERT, however.

This one's by the repellent Irwin Stelzer (Conrad Black toady, AEI, and Hudson Institute), who was invited along for lunch.

To borrow a technique from the great Kurt Vonnegut:

Here is how it begins: No matter how many years one spends in Washington, lunch with the president of the United States is an exciting prospect....

Here is how it ends: :puke:

Have a barf bag handy before you click

[CrazyOrangeCat]

15. That is seriously fucked-up.

I knew I should have looked at the DUzys first.

:scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :scared: :puke:

[malaise]

18. Ditto n/t

[MissMarple]

20. Also present for the lunch: Gertrude Himmelfarb. Wife of Irving Kristol and mother of Bill.

She is considered a noted "intellectual". They are all crazy, authoritarian, control freak "intellectuals". First they were on the far left and now are on the far right. They probably just love Andrew and his totalitarianism.

[Hamlette]

23. I'm not sure they were on what I would call the "far left" weren't they always hawks?

Wolfowitz and Perle came out of Scoop Jackson's office.

Whatever, they did come from the left and used to be democrats and believe you can spread democracy at the point of a gun and they teamed up with a bunch of people who thought it would be great way to steal oil. The neocons were too goofy for the left so switched and found the only allies they had were the utter nut cases, the theocons, people who still think imperialism was a good idea.

It totally pisses me off though that this Brit:
1. Gives Bush cover when historians think he is a crack pot and what they did during their Empire days was, in retrospect, not a good idea. He jumped the pond to breathe new life into a BAD idea, and
2. That he is rewritting history. We gotta win a few so that people like Bush and Andrews don't convince a whole generation that oppressing people is a good idea.

[MissMarple]

24. Sorry, the parents. They started out on the far left. and switched in the 50's, or so.

I think. I read that a while back. The younger neocons have neocon parents. Midge Dector and Norman Podheretz are former Trotskyites and the parents of John Podheretz.

[Hamlette]

26. yeah, I think you are right, some of the parents were Trotskyites but even Perle and Wolfowitz were

dems in the 70s.

I actually thought Fukyama (?) had some intresting and thoughful things to say on The Daily Show but of course he was a neocon (never a dem I don't think as he's pretty young) and has not disclaimed it all so no wonder he sounds reasonable to me.

He said (sort of agreeing with Jon) that they were young college kids, sitting around the dorm thinking "the big wars have been won, what can our generation do to make the world a better place" and then thought "I know! We can use our big army to spread freedom throughout the world!" Trouble was, he lamented, we din't realize Bush would screw it up so bad and it never was such a good idea anyway.

[MissMarple]

33. Fukuyama (I googled), is an interesting guy, and seems to have integrity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama

Fukuyama wrote "The End of History and the Last Man". He posited that political and economic liberalism will triumph in the ideology wars. In later books he has added some caveats to that because of potential changes in the human condition from the potential impacts of future genetic engineering.

" Relationship to Neoconservatism
Politically, Fukuyama has in the past been considered neoconservative. He was active in the Project for the New American Century think tank starting in 1997, and signed the organization's letter recommending that President Bill Clinton overthrow the then-President of Iraq, Saddam Hussein. <1> He also signed a second, similar letter to President George W. Bush after the September 11, 2001 attacks that called for removing Saddam Hussein from power "even if evidence does not link Iraq directly to the attack."<2>

Thereafter, however, he drifted from the neoconservative agenda, which he felt had become overly militaristic and based on muscular, unilateral armed intervention to further democratization within authoritarian regimes (particularly in the Middle East). He did not approve of the 2003 invasion of Iraq as it was executed, and called for Donald Rumsfeld's resignation as Secretary of Defense <3>. He said that he would vote against Bush in the 2004 election,<4> and said Bush made three major mistakes:

The threat of radical Islam to the US was overestimated.

The Bush administration didn't foresee the fierce negative reaction to its benevolent hegemony. From the very beginning it showed a negative attitude towards the United Nations and other international organisations and didn't see that this would increase anti-Americanism in other countries.

The Bush administration misjudged what was needed to bring peace in Iraq and was overly optimistic about the success with which social engineering of Western values could be applied to Iraq and the Middle East in general.

Fukuyama's current beliefs include the following: the US should use its power to promote democracy in the world, but more along the lines of what he calls realistic Wilsonianism, with military intervention only as a last resort and only in addition to other measures. A latent military force is more likely to have an effect than actual deployment. The US spends more on its military than the rest of the world put together, but Iraq shows there are limits to its effectiveness. The US should instead stimulate political and economic development and gain a better understanding of what happens in other countries. The best instruments are setting a good example and providing education and, in many cases, money. The secret of development, be it political or economic, is that it never comes from outsiders, but always from people in the country itself. One thing the US is good at is the formation of international institutions. These would combine power with legitimacy. But such measures require a lot of patience. This is the central thesis of his most recent work America at the Crossroads: Democracy, Power, and the Neoconservative Legacy."

He also compares neoconservatism with Leninism, the "we can change the world thing"; that neoconservatism is at an end; and, surprise, surprise, that "war" is the wrong metaphor in our struggle against "terra", (my term, not his).



Additionally, party affiliation can be such an arbitrary thing. I am a progressive liberal, first. I am a Democrat, second. I'm really an Independent, but the Dems have the best history with progressive ideals. Let's hope that results in some real progress. That the neocons were Democrats, I suppose is not surprising, but with the rise of the "conservative" movement they quickly changed their spots, that are just like the old spots.

I think the neocons are, at heart, totalitarian idealists. Idealists don't always have the best perspectives, pragmatically speaking. So, I guess I agree with Fukuyama on the first point.

[Hamlette]

34. here's the link to his appearance on The Daily Show

http://www.comedycentral.com/sitewide/media_player/play.jhtml?itemId=68958

[MissMarple]

35. Thank you, you are so thoughtful.

At least Fukuyama admits he was wrong. That shows far more class and sanity than Pearl, Kristol and Wolfowitz, et al. They still cling to their tragically misguided actions.

On spell check Halfwitz was suggested instead of Wolfowitz. I am, not quite, literally, :rofl:.

[Hamlette]

37. speaking of Wolfowitz

one of the early books about Iraq, maybe Assassins Gate, painted Wolfowitz as not being the worst of the lot. I almost liked him. He seemed like Fukuyama, like he wanted to help. I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe I need to read the book again and figure out why I liked him.

[IChing]

42. "indebted to Leo Strauss"

The neo-Zionists love this guy.
No thanks, but interesting discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama

[nealmhughes]

47. Fukuyama made the same mistake that many Marxist/Leninists/Trotskyites make: discounting nationalism

He read Hegel to believe that Hegel had been fulfilled and that "history" would be at an end -- Great Man History of Wars and Conflict, that is -- due to a universal embrace of liberal Western ideas on commerce, politics, and education. History, with the fall of the USSR would hence forward be a mere chronology, a listing of timelines of who held office and of major scientific/artistic achievements.

Unfortunately, he read Hegel in a "vulgar Hegelian" way -- apologies to Eric Hobsbawm who created the term "vulgar Marxist" -- that is a simple dialectic, rather than a nuanced multivectored series of "collisions" as well as not assuming the basic nontheoretical bases of most people or the cultural ties that bind a nation and its neighbors.

He has done sincere repentence and is back in good graces with the liberal establishment for his championship of democracy, minus the force and now desires the recreation of the Wilsonian concepts of the 14 Points.

Gee, I guess all that grad school historiography wasn't lost after all! Want to read a review of Eguen Weber's "Peasants into Frenchmen" next?

[earthboundmisfit]

14. Wasn't Cheney reading his book recently?

"Roberts's latest work--A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900--sounds like a standard-issue neocon narrative. As a sequel to Winston Churchill's famous series, it purports to tell the story of how the "Anglosphere" (Great Britain, the United States, Australia, and friends) saved the world from a slew of totalitarian menaces, from the kaiser to the caliphate. It presents Bush as the logical successor to Churchill--only Bush is, of course, even better."

I'm certain I heard or read somewhere that Dick was reading this book recently on one of his trips - evidently he liked it quite a lot...

[tom_paine]

17. I'll bet all war criminals would love this book!

If you have a War Crminal on your Xmas List this year, it would make the PERFECT stocking stuffer.

[Hamlette]

19. the book was the "choice" of the white house book club recently

hence all the attention

[Emit]

43. Apparently, they've all read it

According to Roberts' website:

The publication of 'A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900' brought him an invitation to the White House in February 2007, where he delivered the prestigious White House Lecture, before he and his wife spent 40 minutes alone with President Bush in the Oval Office. The President then gave a lunch for them in the Old Family Dining Room of the Residence, also attended by Vice-President Dick Cheney, National Security Advisor James Hadley, Chief of Staff Josh Bolten and Karl Rove, who had also read or were reading the book. In the course of publicising 'A History of the English-Speaking Peoples Since 1900', Roberts appeared on C-SPAN, the Charlie Rose Show and Fox and Friends.

http://www.andrew-roberts.net/


On Robert's website, he refers to Bush's quote below:


From This Week, Oct. 22, 2006

~snip~

STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you explain, though, how Bob Woodward, who…

BUSH: I didn't read the book.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I know, but he's written three books about your presidency…

BUSH: Well I didn't read any of them.

STEPHANOPOULOS: None of them, even when they were lauding you…

BUSH: George, I didn't read it. I have not read one book about me. I've read a lot of books this year, but not one about myself.

You know, I just, I feel uncomfortable reading about myself. It's hard for you to relate, I think.

But I'm still in the midst of my presidency and people are writing books about my presidency. It is so myopic in many ways.

The true history of my presidency will not be reflected until way after I'm gone.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You don't think there's anything to be learned from these books in real time?

BUSH: No.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What was the last book you read?

BUSH: I'm reading History of the English-Speaking Peoples from 1990 on — 1900 on. It's a great book.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What are you taking from it?

BUSH: I'm taking that — I'm taking that sometimes history gets distorted.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you have to take the long view.

BUSH: Yes, you do.~snip~

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=2594541&page=4~

[alfredo]

16. K&R

[Straight Shooter]

21. Wow. Just .... unbelievable.

In 2001, Roberts spoke to a dinner of the Springbok Club, a group that regards itself as a shadow white government of South Africa and calls for "the re-establishment of civilized European rule throughout the African continent." Founded by a former member of the neo-fascist National Front, the club flies the flag of apartheid South Africa at every meeting. ...

More at link. I didn't want to violate the copyright rules by posting more than a couple additional sentences.

And Imus was fired why? Because he opened his mouth and said exactly what's going on in the mind of one of bush's advisors, that's why. I knew that bush suppressed minorities because it's a cheap shot in elections, but I had no idea he was really that racist as to welcome someone like Roberts into his circle.

Calling Al Sharpton. Calling Al Sharpton.

[Hamlette]

25. interesting stuff from Amazon.com

2 reviews, this from the 1st one from Publishers Weekly:
His rambling, disjointed survey celebrates their achievements in science, technology, sports and Big Macs, but the book is mainly an apologia for an allegedly benign Anglo-American imperialism. The author defends virtually every 20th-century British or American military adventure, from the conquest of the Philippines to the Vietnam War, finishing with a lengthy justification of the invasion of Iraq; his villains are domestic critics and leftist intellectuals whom he calls "appeasers" and who sap the English-speaking peoples' resolve by propagandizing for totalitarianism (also Mel Gibson, whose anti-British movies sabotage English-speaking peoples' solidarity). Roberts writes in a bluff, Tory style, mixing bombast with jocular Briticisms like a running leitmotif of whimsical geopolitical wagers placed at London clubs. Lively but unsystematic, sometimes insightful but always one-sided, this is less a history than a chest-thumping conservative polemic.

And this from Booklist:

Roberts strains to show the fundamental unity of English-speaking peoples. He is somewhat convincing when dealing with Britain, New Zealand, and Australia. When he includes the U.S., he often goes to ludicrous lengths to find commonality. For example, he equates American neoconservatives with Britain's "empire men" in their supposed desire to spread civilization. In conflicts from the Boer War to the American suppression of the Philippine insurrection, Roberts consistently sees only the purest motives of "Anglo-Saxons."

(for those of you who don't read many book reviews, Publishers Weekly and Booklist hardly EVER give a book a bad review, they are in the business of selling books)

But the best part is the reader reviews but a bunch of Nazi loving racist who just don't get which book Publishers Weekly and Booklist were reviewing:

I don't think I read the same book as the Editorial reviewers...or maybe, I'm just not an anti-American, liberal book reviewer from the East Coast. I'm surprised Amazon used those slanted editorials, given that they basically said the book was fine but that they didn't agree with the politics.

but this guy gets it:

This book is both brilliant and worthless at the same time. No one can deny that Roberts has done some brilliant research and that he is an excellent writer. The only problem is the conclusions were already drawn before the writing began and he never bothers to question his own assumptions.

http://www.amazon.com/History-English-Speaking-Peoples-Since-1900/dp/0060875984/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-1629078-8045634?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1176513504&sr=8-1

As a disclaimer, I'm not one to completely beat up America. I think we've done some good in the world but I do NOT see how in the world you could even TRY and make the case that killing Allende was a good thing as this guy does.

Please dear God, don't let these people win.

[eridani]

39. What link? This is really important, IMO n/t

[Hamlette]

59. its from the article linked in the OP n/t

[symbolman]

22. Here's a Flash I did probably three, four years ago

Called "Bush is Not a Nazi, so Stop Saying That.." that explains it all.. turn up those speakers and feel free to pass it around :)

The Germans LOVE this flash..

http://66.230.230.110/geeklog/public_html/staticpages/index.php?page=20040601225012523

Thanks for posting this, gonna post it on Takebackthemedia.com and get the word out :)

[Straight Shooter]

27. LOL. I was going to mention that flash.

When I first saw it years ago, I sent the link to all my friends.

:thumbsup:

[symbolman]

28. Heh, thanks!

Sheesh, looks like I did that FIVE years ago!

That's back when I was a KING on this board, now all the little newbies say I'm BRAGGING when I tell them of the good old days, like when I was on the O'Reilly show, people CHEERED here, and then Scarborough Twice, when he threatened to shut off my microphone..

Ah, those were the days..

Guess I'll just have to make my book a NYTIMES Best Seller AND a Movie to get my Mojo back :)

Appreciate you thinking of it..

[Straight Shooter]

30. Well, symbolman ...

You know the way we feel about KINGS has kind of changed on this board. :7

:hi:

[Hamlette]

32. great flash, thanks

I especially love the "America ends wars, we don't start them." Ah, how much we've lost.

[Karenina]

45. That flash did indeed get LOTS of play

on computers this side of the pond. LOTS of interesting discussions ensued. LOTS of people got an edjumacation!!! THANX SYMBOLMAN!!! :loveya:

[IChing]

49. Thanks symbolman

I remember that, great stuff....:) ;-)

[file83]

52. Your Flash animation was awesome.

!!!:rofl:!!!!:patriot:!!!!:rofl:!!!

[UTUSN]

29. They traded Neo-Con historians? Here's Victor Davis HANSON:

List of PNACers: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/pnac-chart.php
PNACers in Shrub Mal-admin: http://rightweb.irc-online.org/charts/gwb-pnac.php
-----------

NIEZSCHE is one of a group who are often portrayed as strange, impenetrable, and on some weird and original tangent all their own, when the secret that binds ALL of these seeming mavericks ---NIETZSCHE, STRAUSS, PAGLIA, and Victor Davis HANSON (CHEENEE's guru)--- is the CLASSICS Department, the pre-Christian values they are INDIVIDUALLY steeped in ---and wanted to be a part of, literally.

It's not that NIETZSCHE "influenced" the ones after him, it's that EACH of these WENT BACK individually to the Ancients. They want to live by the "strong" pre-Christian values of STRENGH, physical force/domination, PRIDE ("gloating") as opposed to the "weak" values of humility, mercy, turning the other cheek.

And it's NOT that NIEZCHE was a proto-Nazi. Richard WAGNER *was* one and NIETZSCHE broke with him. After he went into his mental helplessness his unintellectual sister took control of his body and dressed him as a prophet, literally, with people visiting to pay obeissance, which would have REPELLED him, and herself courted the proto-Nazis according to her own small understanding of him, or just for her self-interest.

CHEENEE did a little dance right before the Iraq attack, presenting Victor Davis HANSON to the media as his guru. This dude has been laying out the PNAC working plans for public consumption, the two-pronged thing of active war (preemptive/proactive) plus "noble goals" (forcing democracy on others). His role has been to dig up historical examples as precedents for what the PNAC-ers want to do anyway.

Here's HANSON giving marching orders for the Iraq attack:

********QUOTE*******

Full HANSON archive: http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson-archive.asp

Nat'l Cathedral: (History or Hysteria?)

http://www.nationalreview.com/hanson/hanson032803.asp
.... In disgust at the hysteria, I took a drive to Washington to the National Cathedral on Sunday. Big mistake. All except one of the entrances were closed due to security concerns. I walked in under the wonderful sculptures of Frederick Hart, an authentic American genius who almost single-handedly restored classical realism to American sculpture. A small statue of a kneeling Lincoln, who sent thousands into battle to eradicate slavery, was in the corner. A plaque of quotations from Churchill, about the need for sacrifice in war, was on the wall. So I was feeling somewhat good again — until I heard the pious sermon on “shock and awe.” In pompous tones the minister was deprecating the war effort, calling down calumnies upon the administration, and alleging the immoral nature of our nation at war.

Such a strange man at such a strange time, I thought. His entire congregation, by its own admission, is in danger from foreign terrorists (why else bar the gates?). His church is itself a monument to the utility of force for moral purposes. His own existence as a free-speaking, freely worshiping man of God is possible only thanks to the United States military — whose present mission he was openly deriding at the country’s national shrine. ....
*************UNQUOTE********

And here's an example of how NIETZSCHE was distorted by the Nazis, with HANSON giving his views on Mexican immigration, "Mexifornia", (not "racist" despite whether we agree or disagree), with wingnut racists taking over his word for their own purposes:

**********QUOTE********

Mexifornia

http://www.city-journal.org/html/12_2_do_we_want.html
Thousands arrive illegally from Mexico into California each year—and the state is now home to fully 40 percent of America’s immigrants, legal and illegal. They come in such numbers because a tacit alliance of Right and Left has created an open-borders policy, aimed at keeping wage labor cheap and social problems ever fresh, so that the ministrations of Chicano studies professors, La Raza activists, and all the other self-appointed defenders of group causes will never be unneeded. ....

And while the Democrats think the illegals will eventually turn into liberal voters, the actual Hispanic vote so far remains just a small fraction of the eligible Mexican-American pool: of the 14,173 residents of the central California town of Hanford who identified themselves as Latino (34 percent of the town’s population), for example, only 770 are registered to vote.

My sleepy hometown of Selma, California, is in the dead center of all this. ....It is a schizophrenic existence, living at illegal immigration’s intersection. Each week I pick up trash, dirty diapers, even sofas and old beds dumped in our orchard by illegal aliens—only to call a Mexican-American sheriff who empathizes when I show him the evidence of Spanish names and addresses on bills and letters scattered among the trash. ....

Yet I also walk through vineyards at 7 AM in the fog and see whole families from Mexico, hard at work in the cold—while the native-born unemployed of all races will not—and cannot—prune a single vine. By natural selection, we are getting some of the most intelligent and industrious people in the world, people who have the courage to cross the border, the tenacity to stay—and, if not assimilated, the potential to cost the state far, far more than they can contribute. ....

Our elites do not understand just how rare consensual government is in the history of civilization, and therefore they wrongly think that they can instill confidence by praising the other, less successful, cultures that aliens are escaping from rather than explaining the dynamism and morality of the civilization that they have voted for with their feet. ....


*******Miles Gloriosus, Complete********

A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

Music: Stephen Sondheim Lyrics: Stephen Sondheim Book: Larry Gelbart + Burt Shevelove Film: 1966

Bring Me My Bride

http://libretto.musicals.ru/text.php?textid=5&language=1

MILES
My bride! My bride!
I've come to claim my bride,
Come tenderly to crush her against my side!
Let haste be made,
I cannot be delayed!
There are lands to conquer,
Cities to loot
And people to degrade!

SOLDIERS
Look at those arms!
Look at that chest!
Look at them!

MILES
Not to mention the rest!
Even I am impressed.

My bride! My bride!
Come bring to me my bride!
My lust for her no longer can be denied!
Convey the news.
I have no time to lose!
There are towns to plunder,
Temples to burn
And women to abuse!

SOLDIERS
Look at that foot!
Look at that heel!
Mark the magnificent muscles of steel!

MILES
I am my ideal!

I, Miles Gloriosus,
I, slaughterer of thousands,
I, oppressor of the meek,
Subduer of the weak,
Degrader of the Greek,
Destroyer of the Turk,
Must hurry back to work!

MILES
COURTESANS
I, Miles Gloriosus,
I, Paragon of virtues,
Him, Miles Gloriosus
Him, Paragon of virtues,

SOLDIERS
A man among men!
With sword and with pen!

MILES
I, in war the most admired,
In wit the most inspired,
In love the most desired,
In dress the best displayed,
I am a parade!

SOLDIERS
Look at those eyes,
Cunning and keen!
Look at the size of those thighs,
Like a mighty machine!

PSEUDOLUS
Those are the mightiest thighs that I ever have theen!
I mean . . .

MILES
My bride! My bride!
Inform my lucky bride:
The fabled arms of Miles are open wide!
Make haste! Make haste!
I have no time to waste!
There are shrines I should be sacking,
Ribs I should be cracking,
Eyes to gouge and booty to divide!
Bring me my bride!

SOLDIERS
Bring him his bride!

ALL
Bring him his bride!

**********UNQUOTE*********

[jwirr]

31. This British nazi does not know Americans. *ss will ignore opinion

at his own peril.

[originalpckelly]

36. This is not good. I wonder if it means he is planning on some type of larger...

and more dramatic undemocratic actions. If he's looking for an apologist, that's really a very bad thing.

God I hope he just resigns like Nixon, of course we don't know what he's done completely, we just know they're acting very guilty and that a number of extremely suspicious events have taken place. We still do not know how they fit into the larger picture.

[ArbustoBuster]

38. This guy calls himself an historian?

How can he not see the irony in this statement, which is quoted in the article?

"Just as we do not today differentiate between the Roman Republic and the imperial period of the Julio-Claudians when we think of the Roman Empire, so in the future no one will bother to make a distinction between the British Empire-led and the American Republic-led periods of English-speaking dominance."

While the Roman Republic had its faults, it was a freakin' Barbie dream house when compared to the Roman Empire under the Julio-Claudians. (If you're not familiar with that name, they were the first set of Emperors. You know, the ones who regularly killed people to get their inheritances and exiled people for making fun of them in poems. Dubya would have loved them.) The Claudians pretty much all died by assassination, often at the hands of relatives, and committed atrocities that even today are stunning to read about.

[Hamlette]

40. I'm not sure irony is the word...I find it terrifying. These kids have control of the army!

and so far, have been able to do anything they want.

[MasterDarkNinja]

41. wow, just wow

This would be funny if it weren't true. Is it any wonder that Bush is so disconnected from reality when he talks to guys like this?

[Connie_Corleone]

44. Truly horrifying. The world can't take another 2 years of this evil.

[legin]

46. Also provides 'opinions' for the british Daily Telegraph

Some of his stuff (apart from first link)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/portal/main.jhtml?_DARGS=/core/search/genericSimpleSearch.jhtml

[BrklynLiberal]

48. Why does this not surprise me? Bushites using a racist for advice...

[EstimatedProphet]

51. What about unpopular, INcorrect policies?

Aren't they grounds for criminal proceedings?

[glitch]

53. So they are out of ideas, as suspected. Good. And good riddance.

Pooling ignorance is a sure sign of systemic failure, they seem to be picking up speed toward their inevitable crash. When in doubt, accelerate!

[HannibalBarca]

55. Internment???

Worked in Northern Ireland????, what an utter pile of unmentionable crap, it swelled the ranks of the IRA and guaranteed 20+ more years of violence.

[Hamlette]

58. yeah, that one really pissed me off

I wouldn't call myself an expert on "the troubles" in Ireland but a few years back I got interested and read a number of books on that period of history. He must be ignoring everything everyone else has ever written about the troubles.

Like one of the book reviews said, he made up his mind before he wrote the book and no amount of evidence was going to change his mind. The horror is, Bush has done the same AND he hasn't read a dozen books about Ireland (or anything else) so he has no way to evaluate the book.

The BIGGEST horror is this guy told Bush the only way he can lose this war is if he listens to eveyone else in the world telling him he should give it up. Gives Bush every reason to not even LISTEN to anyone else.

[EVDebs]

57. "supreme imperial indifference to public opinion"

He was feigning compassion and the desire to have civil discourse all along. My way or the highway was the plan from day one.

[Up2Late]

60. "...he urges Bush to adopt a supreme imperial indifference..."

I'd say "Mission Accomplished, except that Bush can't carry it off, just enjoys this crap too much and starts to smirk when he's really having a good time with crap like this.:mad:

[Joanne98]

61. Another disciple of Leo Strauss!

[The Count]

62. THANK YOU!!!!!I HEARD THE NAZI ON CHARLIE ROSE AND COULDN'T BELIEVE

Rose was of course bowing to him - especially impressed by W's endorsement.
"The English speaking people" indeed ...Better than the furriners speaking other god forsaken languages...I couldn't believe I was watching this on Ch 13! I mentioned it here a couple of times! Thanks so much for this!

[donkeyotay]

63. They found someone to prop up fratboy against recognizing failure

from the OP link:

It doesn't appear to occur to Roberts that the British or U.S. empires could simply hit up against a limit to their power. Could there be a worse adviser for George W. Bush right now? Roberts's advice is a vicious imperial anachronism: Target civilians, introduce mass internment, don't worry about whether people hate you, bear down on dissent because it will sap the empire's willpower, ignore your critics because they're just jealous, and--above all--keep on fighting and you'll prevail.

OMG.

[Name removed]

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