If Obama caves on Health Care

[colorado thinker]

can we assume that we have all been played for fools? Or is there some larger plan we don't know about yet?

[mikelgb]

1. Chess with ponies n/t

[bonjourtristesse]

23. :)

[DRoseDARs]

33. You mean unicorns. Chess with unicorns. In eleven dimensions. n/t

[rwheeler31]

2. I'm thinking Chicago.

[Curtland1015]

3. Or perhaps that he just caved?

I dunno... it's a possibility.

:P

[DJ13]

4. Im afraid it will make us look like fools

His actions so far are failing to match the soaring rhetoric that inspired us to dare hope Obama was somehow different from the usual politicians that become President.

He will go from inspirational figure to just another in a long line of disappointing politicians who serve only the powerful.

[colorado thinker]

6. That is exactly what I'm afraid of.

I believe I'll be emailing whitehouse.gov again and again over the next few days..........

[bluethruandthru]

5. If Obama caves on health care... I will be even more crushed

than I was when bush won in 04.

[anneboleyn]

8. Me too. This was one of my big hopes -- that we would have real health care reform.

[WeDidIt]

39. +10

[rucky]

7. In that situation, you wouldn't be played for a fool...

unless you thought it was part of some larger plan.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. Well, you can.

[jwirr]

10. When Jimmy Carter came to DC they beltway crowd ate him alive

because he did not know how to work the system. This is beginning to remind me of that - except that his own staff may be complicit. This is a rant as I am dead tired and nothing has gone right today. Forgive me.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

12. It's not a rant, and you don't need anyone's forgiveness,

my friend.

I find myself thinking the same thing. Obama wasn't in the Senate long enough to get a handle on it, like LBJ had. He might just as well be the outsider that Carter was. I thought having Rahm Emanuel as his Chief of Staff would be a big difference, but I'm not seeing that working well at all.

If he folds on public option, I'm done. I'm too old and too tired to go through having my good faith and hope crushed again. I just can't endure it. I'll still stay interested, but no more money, no more anything. And I'll be done with voting.

I've already spent far too much time having to beat my Democratic Senator over the head to get him to back away from Evan Bayh and those thugs disguised as Democrats, so now he's supporting the public option. But, if Obama can't stay behind it, then anything he settled for is worthless. Whatever it might be, it'll redound to the benefit of the insurance companies, of that I have no doubt.

I'm tired, just like you...........................

[jwirr]

26. Thank you - it is always good to know that I am not crying alone. Do

you think we could be going through the grief we did after Robert was killed? It feels the same. I need to get to bed - have a good night.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

31. You'll find this tomorrow -

I'm too old and experienced and worn out to be able to feel that kind of sharp, breathtaking grief that defined Robert's death. I was young, we were young, and things were new, were felt far more acutely. We didn't know then how much more we would lose in life.

Now, it's just - for me - a kind of numb sadness. I'm holding off, not diving into the depression that beckons so beguilingly to me. I'm still choosing to believe, but I am also prepared for that hope to be dashed. Until then, we've been around this block so many times, how else could we possibly feel except betrayed and exhausted?

It's like having an unfaithful spouse, and we keep taking him/her back, believing the promises to us that "this time I'll be different," but s/he keeps cheating on us, until finally, words and promises are no longer enough, and you realize that the trust is irrevocably shattered, will never be there again.

Too many compromises, too many assertions of faith required with nothing given in return except empty promises, too many big things that went the wrong way. I watch Afghanistan in horror, remembering Vietnam, and realize I expected something very different.

So, yes, it's grief, but it's the grief of weary, smart, experienced people who know the score, who know what happens next.

Sleep well.......................

[jwirr]

49. Thank you again. Yes, I will not give up on hope totally but the idea

of scumming to depression and going into a room to hibernate for a long time the way my little brother did (bipolar) is so tempting. One thing I do believe is that no matter what I will keep fighting for my family to survive this mess and that most likely means continuing the struggle we are in politically right now.

I am feeling better today. Spent the day with my children and grands hosting a rummage sale. Got soaked in the process as my great grands were in the swimming pool and one of them decided to throw a cup of water at me and his baby sister.

[mitchtv]

28. you sound like me

I'm too old to be fooled again.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

32. We are -

we've seen this one too many times, and we know how this particular song ends.

Enough........................

[Freddie Stubbs]

11. I have no doubt that he will back the strongest bill which he believes that Congress can pass

[dflprincess]

13. Passing something just for the sake of passing a bill won't mean a thing

If all they do is enact some piece of crap that does nothing but further entrench the insurance companies we'd be better off with nothing being done.

I hope Obama doesn't really believe that we are all so stupid that we'll believe any bill he calls "reform" actually is even when the only thing that changes is that we'll be required to contribute to the insurance companies' profits.

[Laelth]

17. +1 n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Prohibiting insurance companies from denying coverage of preexisting conditions would be bad?

[Laelth]

20. And in exchange for that they get 40 million new customers?

All of whom must buy their bad products or become criminals? While the people who are forced to buy said insurance will resent it, terribly, and punish the Democratic Party for it for years?

And you think that is a good deal?

:shrug:

:dem:

-Laelth

[dflprincess]

30. They can tell them they can't deny coverage

but there won't be much control over how much they charge for that "coverage". If the premiums, copay and deductibles are so high people still can't afford the policy or to get care if they manage to buy insurance the "coverage" (and the law) is useless.

And, not "denying coverage" only means they'll sell you one of their products - it doesn't mean they won't still find ways to deny your claims. Sure, they might have to pay some fines when they get caught doing that but, like Walmart paying fines for violating labor laws, they'll just write if off as part of the cost of doing business.

[flyarm]

38. and if the rates are so high no one can afford them ..the uninsured gained ..what?

come on ..lets see it..they can demand they provide the health care but if the rates are sooo high and no one can afford them..just exactly what has been gained??????????

White House Admits the Public Option is Gone, Will Sistah Soulja the Left
White House Admits the Public Option is Gone, Will Sistah Soulja the Left
By: Jane Hamsher
September 2, 2009

The White House cuts the public option loose in a trial balloon in Politico:

The White House is making the calculation that the hit they suffer when they drop the public plan is only with the "far left," that they can survive that and actually use it to their advantage by triangulating against "the blogs."

It's just a guess, but when average Americans understand that "health care reform" means they will be forced to pay Blue Cross more money than they do now for worse insurance or be fined 2.5% of their income, I have a feeling it's not just going to be a couple of radical lefties who are pissed off about what amounts to an increase in middle class taxes.

For us, the question becomes: what are we going to do? How much do we care, how hard are we going to push Democrats in the House, elected by solid Democratic majorities, to stand up to this railroading and defend the public option?

There are 55 members in D+10 districts who have not said that they will vote against any bill that does not have a strong public option. For me, sitting by and watching them help to bailout PhRMA and the insurance industry on the backs of the middle class, just when people are struggling to find decent jobs in the midst of a recession, is not an option.

We'll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/02/white-ho ... /

[Freddie Stubbs]

46. How does an insuranse company make money if no one can afford their policies?

:shrug:

[Laelth]

47. Government subsidies, that's how. And you know it.

:mad:

:dem:

-Laelth

[flyarm]

48. absolutely..how about 40 million new mandated customers?????

[flyarm]

37. exactly..passing shit doesn't make it good! eom

[WeDidIt]

40. Yep, HR3200 with no public option will actually make things WORSE!

It'll be nothing more than a mandated wealth transfer from the middle class and working poor to the insurance companies.

[SammyWinstonJack]

41. +1000 nt

[Lorien]

14. We will have been played for fools

and I won't be fooled again.

[cascadiance]

15. I might have to keep posting this pic more and more that it seems to be describing reality...

[debbierlus]

16. There will be a few holdouts, but I think the dems fail to see that this is THE line in the sand

People have put up with a LOT of shit with the democratic party. A whole LOT of shit.

If they abandon the people on this, they will have confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that we truly have a one party corporate system.

The dems turn their back on the base at their own peril.

[Laelth]

19. +2 n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[Big Blue Marble]

21. Amen n/t

[Joe Fields]

35. you and I see it the same way. it doesn't look good, either.

[flyarm]

22. White House Admits the Public Option is Gone, Will Sistah Soulja the Left

White House Admits the Public Option is Gone, Will Sistah Soulja the Left
By: Jane Hamsher
September 2, 2009

The White House cuts the public option loose in a trial balloon in Politico:

The White House is making the calculation that the hit they suffer when they drop the public plan is only with the "far left," that they can survive that and actually use it to their advantage by triangulating against "the blogs."

It's just a guess, but when average Americans understand that "health care reform" means they will be forced to pay Blue Cross more money than they do now for worse insurance or be fined 2.5% of their income, I have a feeling it's not just going to be a couple of radical lefties who are pissed off about what amounts to an increase in middle class taxes.

For us, the question becomes: what are we going to do? How much do we care, how hard are we going to push Democrats in the House, elected by solid Democratic majorities, to stand up to this railroading and defend the public option?

There are 55 members in D+10 districts who have not said that they will vote against any bill that does not have a strong public option. For me, sitting by and watching them help to bailout PhRMA and the insurance industry on the backs of the middle class, just when people are struggling to find decent jobs in the midst of a recession, is not an option.

We'll be looking into the campaign finance histories of these members, as well as their voting records, to try and ascertain if there are reasons they are not signing on that the public should know about.

http://campaignsilo.firedoglake.com/2009/09/02/white-ho... /

[Laelth]

27. +1 for Jane. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[MannyGoldstein]

24. The Audacity of "Ha Ha, Suckers"

This is like a bad nightmare. We have the presidency and both houses of Congress, yet cannot get anything done.

But Emanuel and Summers will get many millions after they leave the WH, you can bank on it.

[SammyWinstonJack]

43. So will Obama - - get many millions after he leaves the WH.

[flyarm]

25. Mike Farrell Thanks Buckeye State blog and Ohio Daily Blog Health Care Reform Help

Mike Farrell Thanks Buckeye State blog and Ohio Daily Blog Health Care Reform Help

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aInpdhmnQXo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Ffiredoglake%2Ecom%2F&feature=player_embedded

[autorank]

29. If Obama appoints Tim Geithner as Secretary of the Treasury ...

[bvar22]

34. LOL.

The Battered Wife Syndrome.....

[autorank]

51. Keep coming back

I can hardly wait to see what the "make up" period is like. But I'm afraid, they're too smart by half,
if any of them actually have functioning brain cells;)

[flyarm]

36. sad but ..LMAO..eom

[autorank]

50. We need that sense of humor. It's the one thing they can't destroy.

:hi:

[QC]

42. It's all a strategy far too brilliantly complex and subtle for mere mortals

to comprehend. That's why we should stick to giggling over pinup pictures of the president and just leave the substantive matters to him.

[SammyWinstonJack]

44. +1

:evilgrin:

[GreenArrow]

45. He already has.

/

[flaminbats]

52. I'll hold my Congressman and 2 Senators accountable..

I thought Congress wrote and passed the laws. The President only vetoes or signs them.

If someone caves on health care it will not be Obama, but Congressmen and Senators like Ben Nelson.

please remember a Democratic Congress needs pressure from the voter, and something tells me Obama will help us out on Wednesday.

[Name removed]

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