Howard Dean is waiting in the wings.

[musiclawyer]

I have absolutely no facts upon which to base my assertion. But I do long range risk management planning for a living. And there is always a third way/scenario that develops in crises situations. If Obama shows that he has no cajones and there is no meaningful Health Care reform, the blowback will be so big and hard, that nature will fill the vacuum. There is only one guy I know of who can't be corrupted AND has the following to take on Obama. I met the guy in person once. He's presidential material......still.

[yourout]

1. I could get behind that.

[ellenfl]

3. me three. eom

[Laelth]

10. me four. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[galloglas]

16. Count me # 5 !

[bvar22]

18. I'll join this parade.

Especially if the "Centrist" Democrats are successful at fucking up Health Care Reform.


:patriot:

[Mojambo]

2. I do believe he is the most likely candidate to try and primary Obama in 2012

I'd say it's extremely unlikely to actually happen, but if it does Dean would be the guy.

[MannyGoldstein]

7. 2012 , too.

"We all voted for change we can believe in. If we don't get it, we'll get some more change in 2010,"

[wtbymark]

4. I've met him more than a dozen times

While working at Vermont Public Television - He should have been president then, he was villified and we let them do that to him.

[xxqqqzme]

5. I met him 3 times and he impressed the hell out of me.

His answers to random questions (first meeting) knocked me out!

[MannyGoldstein]

6. He's Pulled Himself Out From Under The Bus

Dusted himself off, and he's ready to lead the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party to a better future for our country.

[Why Syzygy]

38. Did you hear his joke

at the Town Hall meeting that kicked out Randall Terry?

Huge crowd, cheering. He said, the last time he was in front of a crowd that large, he was the one screaming! :rofl: What a man.

[Jack Sprat]

8. If such a situation should develop,

I could dig it.

[tritsofme]

9. This guy only won his home state in 2004. I don't think President Obama will lose any sleep

over Howard Dean. lol

[Laelth]

11. That's too bad.

I would much happier if the President did lose some sleep over alienating his base. I'd be happier, still, if he didn't seem determined to alienate us in the first place.

:dem:

-Laelth

[RubyDuby in GA]

57. +111

:thumbsup:

[cui bono]

23. Well maybe he's losing sleep over the job he's doing. Not nearly the great president

where as he was the great candidate. Too bad. He ran a great campaign I don't know what he's doing now.

I don't necessarily agree with the OP or hope that that happens, but Obama doesn't have the same fire and he is not standing up for the people and bringing in the change he campaigned on.

[bertman]

32. He didn't have Rahm Emanuel running his campaign. nt

[bertman]

33. oopseydupsee

[WeDidIt]

12. If there is no public option, I'm all for a primary challenge to Obama

and will work to defeat Obama.

[Sebastian Doyle]

13. If Dr. Dean ever runs for President again, he will have my support

be that 2012, 2016, or when ever. And if he runs specifically because President Obama failed to deliver the change he promised especially on health care, then the President will have nobody to blame but himself.

I thought the Freepers were idiots when they called Obama "another Jimmy Carter". Sad to say they may have had a point, if he allows Repukes - including the Repukes IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY AND IN HIS OWN STAFF (yes, Rahm I'm looking right at you) - to neuter any possibility of legitimate change.

[unc70]

61. Jimmy Carter deserves more respect and trust

Obama still has to earn it. Early assessment is not in his favor.

[Butch350]

14. What I really don't understand is...

How are you gonna have the same scenerio, that exists today and figure some different individual gonna get
the job of health care reform done.

How would HD change anything. I'm curious. This health care reform tragedy takes more than, ca lifornia jones, CAJONES!
Some americans think all problems can be solved by showing the ole proverbial CAJONES.


I won't take a thread serious that starts off with,

"I have absolutely no facts upon which to base my assertion. But I do long range risk management planning for a living".

Boy that's a contridiction.

I say BULLSHIT to HD getting any more done on health care reform than obama or anyone else.

The only thing that's gonna get health care reform done is putting down the mountain dew and doritos, push the fuck away
from the keyboard and get the collectives asses out and march on washington and demand your rights.

That takes some CAJONES!

[goclark]

22. Thank you for bringing your wisdom

"How are you gonna have the same scenerio, that exists today and figure some different individual gonna get
the job of health care reform done. "

Some people have a crystal ball and know right now who they would support 3 1/2 years from now.

This world moves so fast,it's hard to imagine what will happen tomorrow.


Huum ~

[midnight armadillo]

24. Dean 2012!

How are you gonna have the same scenerio, that exists today and figure some different individual gonna get
the job of health care reform done.

How would HD change anything. I'm curious. This health care reform tragedy takes more than, ca lifornia jones, CAJONES!
Some americans think all problems can be solved by showing the ole proverbial CAJONES.


Well, for one thing Howard Dean is lacking any pretenses about bipartisanship with Republicans who are dead set on ruining a Democratic presidency at any costs.

For another, on day one HD would enter the Oval Office and declare: "I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum."

[SharonAnn]

26. It's "cojones", not "cajones". "Cajones" means drawers or boxes.

www.urbandictionary.com

cajones

Spanish for "drawers" (as in, the kind in a dresser or desk). This word is often confused by non-Spanish speakers with cojones (note the different vowel sound), which is Spanish slang for balls, but they are in fact two very different words.

[MessiahRp]

29. If you think Obama handled this HC Reform issue well you're way, way off base

Dean would have started at Single Payer. Even if that's not what would have eventually passed he would have started at the most logical position and then conceded back to a much, much more impactful and positive public option that would have seemed like the compromise point.

Instead Obama started at the center and negotiated to the right and now the GOP and Blue Dogs own the issue.

Dean also would have actually issued a detailed plan instead of leaving it in the hands of Baucus and Conrad... two corporate sell outs from states with tiny populations and no accountability.

Then when the RW started to pull their astroturfing shit, Dean would have cut into prime time programming and taken the issue back. He would have picked strong surrogates who actually support what he's doing rather than sabotage it at every turn (yes I am looking at you Sebelius).

He wouldn't have been so eager to dump a public option, going to Grassley early in the negotiations and saying it was not critical (which he then confirmed himself by backing off on at town halls).

No deal he cut would have prevented negotiating costs of medicine and services. His plan would have actually saved us money.

Howard Dean would have made a world of difference.

Instead we have President Rahm Emanuel and his corporate sell out crew ready to fuck Americans over with no public option, mandated insurance and no end to the pre-existing condition service refusals.

The scam artists are winning because Obama didn't really give a fuck about this issue so much as he was hoping to float through anything and claim victory at the end.

Howard Dean would have fought for us.

[whirlygigspin]

43. wow

MessiahRp, if i'm ever in a street fight, I want you on my side.

dang,

[ContinentalOp]

45. Dean doesn't support single payer, and he has consistently tried to confuse the "public option"...

with single payer to sell the idea to the public. Dean IS the face of centrist, corporate health care "reform."

[MessiahRp]

55. You're missing the point.

I didn't say Howard Dean would enact Single Payer. I said he would have started there and then when he negotiated we would never have been pulled as far to the right as we are right now.

I do believe with the current Congressional makeup that Single Payer is impossible. Too many bought off politicians in the way of what's best for Americans. Dean knows this as well.

The problem is Obama/Emanuel basically told the Single Payer advocates to fuck off from the start and instead of negotiating from a point where a robust public option is the compromise, he started there and the media portrayed it as the far left position.

THAT is where he and Dean would have differed and Dean would have been a million times more effective.

http://citizenvox.org/2009/08/14/at-netroots-howard-dean-says-exluding-single-payer-was-a-mistake/

Rp

[madmax]

15. I am so confused about Obama

Does he have something up his sleeve? Is there a plan?

How did Health Care get so away from him? His campaign was nearly flawless, he's intelligent, when he speaks (imo)it's like a symphony. :wtf: happened????

[Butch350]

17. Haven't any of you been keeping up with current events...

Are you all really that naive to the way the world and your politicians work?

[madmax]

20. Snarky little fucker, aren't you. n/t

[Kansas Wyatt]

19. He moved to the Right and lost support.

The People elected him and a Democratic Congress to move the country to the Left, not the Right, and that is exactly why they have lost support from the American People.

[madmax]

21. Yes, we did. And no he hasn't.

Not at all happy with the deals he's made with big Pharma. I'll wait to hear him speak before the joint session of Congress and then decide if I choose poorly.

[Why Syzygy]

41. Dean has promised

to run progressives against all the DINOs in the Houses. He won't have this Blue Doggin crap.

[whirlygigspin]

47. Amen to that

bang on

[placton]

59. What happened?

The Left Blogosphere shouted down anyone who didnt support Mr. Obama. And now? Surprise! He is the corporatist some told you he was.

[KoKo]

25. We have to have "Back Up's." He's a good one... n/t

[donheld]

27. Howard should've been president since 2004

[scheming daemons]

28. Howard is 100% behind Obama and believes HCR will happen

...with a public option.


Maybe you should actually LISTEN to Howard a little more instead of just worshiping him.

[Jack Sprat]

37. Does Obama favor a public option?

Why not have him elaborate on that next Tuesday? As of this date, the public isn't certain where he stands on the public option. I think we know how Howard Dean feels about a public option, but Obama is dancing all around it.

[TheWraith]

40. Obama has repeatedly said that he wants a public option.

Don't blame him if you put more stock in what Politico is reporting from their conversations with the White House janitor mixed with RNC talking points and black propaganda than in what Obama actually says.

[Jack Sprat]

44. Really?

Then have him (Obama) repeat it in the upcoming message to congress on healthcare reform. That's easy enough isn't it?

I don't mean that dance of preferring some sort of public option - nothing vague from here on. You have played that game. I would challenge you that half the people on DU are waiting on him (Obama) to actually enunciate a plan for a public option, how it will work, and that he plans to veto a healthcare package that does not contain a public option. Then, the skepticism will pass and I will clean my ears out for your trouble.

[Why Syzygy]

53. Didn't we perceive Leadership

in the candidate Obama? I know we did! He never mentioned he was going to let the repukes run the country for four years! He gave the House a DEADLINE, July 31; but provided no direction whatsoever! What is up with that? A leader doesn't DO that.

He HAS promised the middle class won't be stuck with the bill. That darn well better be the case. But with mandated coverage, how can it possibly be?

DUers can give us a hard time, but this is most troubling. We are right to be concerned at this late date and after everything than has gone before. (It will be 40 days past the deadline when he delivers his speech. And hopefully gives some idea of what he actually expects.)


Congress Seems Sure to Miss Deadline
In his news conference on July 22, President Obama stuck to and defended a looming deadline for the House and Senate to pass their versions of health-care-reform legislation — even though it is becoming increasingly apparent that the two chambers are not going to meet it. "I'm rushed because I get letters every day from families that are being clobbered by health-care costs," the President said, adding, "If you don't set deadlines in this town, things don't happen. The default position is inertia."

But inertia is what some members of his own party might accuse the President himself of. And if they had any hope that Obama would get more specific on what he wants to see in a final health-care bill, they must have been sorely disappointed. While the President once again laid out his case for fixing the system to what he admitted was a skeptical public, he offered scant details as to how. "If we do not control these costs, we will not be able to control our deficit," he remarked. "If we do not reform health care, your premiums and out-of-pocket costs will continue to skyrocket." Obama did signal that he would be open to one proposal the House is considering to pay for health reform: an income-tax surcharge on families earning more than $1 million. "If I see a proposal primarily funded through taxing middle-class families, I'm going to be opposed to it," he stressed. (...)

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1912288,00.html

[lonestarnot]

30. Yes!

[KittyWampus]

31. what a bunch of delusional whiners. Instead of fighting for what you want you post ideas

that will never happen.

[Hawkeye-X]

34. I'm in.

Like Dean once said "I am member of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party!"

My avatar remains there.

Hawkeye-X

[bertman]

35. I still have my Dean for President bumper sticker pinned to my bulletin board.

The media shit-canned him before I even got to put it on my vehicle.

Rec and kick.

[DuLover2k9]

36. I'm with you on that.

[TheWraith]

39. Seek professional help.

Really, if you believe any of that, then you're paying about as little attention to reality as the teabaggers. Dean is backing Obama on healthcare reform and busily telling the left to simmer down, we're going to get our bill. The way I know that is because he said so to a big room full of left wing bloggers, including me.

[whirlygigspin]

49. oops, name calling #3 propaganda tool

I saw that too, on the internets



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb9tsPd-xWE





Next up: election finance reform

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

42. It's called delusion, check into it. WHAAAAAAA!

I like Dean, but Jesus this is just stupid.

[byebyegop]

46. urrrum...yea ok whatever.

Far be it from me to piss in your cornflakes but he already tried and never got very far. He has made too many enemies inside and outside of Politics on all sides. He has his strengths but wouldn't stand a chance no way no how!

[mzmolly]

48. Howard Dean fan from way back. I don't think he'll run against Obama.

:shrug: I will say I agree he's Presidential material. ;)

[whirlygigspin]

52. ...and the winner is :______

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFsESh3YnhY

go to the end of this clip @ 8:00

[Missy Vixen]

50. I loves me some Howard Dean

He still screams for me.

:woohoo:

[PHIMG]

51. I think it more likely that Obama be primaried from his right-wing

Given that the Republican party is such shit the Democratic party needs to be driven farther into the bosom of big business and the ruling elite. The media will not give anyone in the Democratic Party who runs too far to the left any credence. To the extent Obama was allowed to move the left it was because Bush created that opening.

If Obama craps the bed, in 2012 we'd need an INDY with a shitload of money to run a campaign a la Perot. I'd love to see Gore leave the party and run against the party and the "system" that is is a part of.

[Paper Roses]

54. Sometimes I think Dr. Dean is our last hope. He gets it. Our fine

President is beginning to let me down. I had so much hope that he would be able to stand up to the corporate bullies. I now wonder. It is hard for one person to fight the power of the right and of big business. Dr. Dean has a "give 'em Hell" attitude of Harry Truman. We need that.

We've been waiting far too long for things to change. Now is the time.

[BelleCarolinaPeridot]

56. I think everybody is still waiting for their pony.

At least let the man be in office a good 10 months before you give up. I don't think anyone would be happy with any other Democratic president if it was another candidate from last year. When have you ever seen a politician that has done everything that you wanted? Never...

[placton]

58. I AM behind that

time to get behind a primary challenge for Mr. Obama.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

60. Sounds good, if he could survive "the scream"

The other candidates' 527's will play it ad-nauseum, as will the repubs if Howard gets the nom.

Whoever is prez still needs to get something through congress, and those folks CAN be bought, and ARE bought. Big health/pharma/insurance can buy a lot of votes.

Anyway, I'd vote for Howard. Or Dennis K. Anyone who would push for single-payer.

:hi: