Tethered to mother at college

[question everything]

Tethered to mother at college

By Shannon Colavecchio, Times Staff Writer

Published Monday, August 24, 2009
St. Petersburg Times

When University of Florida administrator Jeanna Mastrodicasa was a student living in a dorm at the University of Georgia, she had to dial collect to call home. And she didn't do it all that often. Fast forward two decades, and you find college students like Tiana Johnson, who talks to her mother every day, "maybe every couple of hours." The two also exchange frequent text messages. And they're connected through Facebook, the increasingly popular social networking site that allows Tiana's mother to see pictures and "status updates" documenting Tiana's college experience. So much for going away to college and finding your independence. The umbilical cord is now wireless.

(snip)

With affordable cell phones and instant, 24-hour social tools like Facebook and Twitter, more and more college students today remain close to home, no matter how far away their campus is. Technology makes it easier than ever for parents to hover, and the college years become just an extended version of high school. Researchers in academia call this phenomenon the "electronic tether." And they are very concerned. "When a student and parent are calling and texting all day, what happens is the kid has the parent in their head, so there is not that liberation there once was in college to just make your own decisions," said Middlebury College psychology professor Barbara Hofer. "There is not a lot of independent decisionmaking going on. "It's a serious concern in terms of who they become in the workplace and in society."

Mastrodicasa, assistant vice president for student affairs at UF, researches the relationship between technology and "millennials," the generation born after 1980. A few years back, she surveyed 8,000 college students across the country. The findings point to a generation that is far closer and more dependent on their parents than previous generations. Example: UF researchers asked students how often they talk to their parents on the phone; the results showed a median of 1.5 times a day. Sixty-seven percent of the students said they regularly talk to their parents about their social lives.

(snip)

Hofer, the psychology professor, did a similar study of 1,000 undergraduates at Middlebury and the University of Michigan. One in five students surveyed said they have sent papers to their parents, usually via e-mail, for proofreading. The students, and not just freshmen, reported communicating with their parents roughly 13 times a week through e-mail and cell phone. One of the students Hofer surveyed said his mother had the syllabi for all four of his courses. His mother checked in daily: Did you finish this reading assignment? Is your essay done? "This is a kid that is not becoming the self-regulated learner that college is supposed to create," Hofer said.

(snip)

Hofer has found, by following up with students after they graduate, that they lean heavily on their parents even after they have a diploma. "We're already hearing stories about graduates who say, 'I can't accept that salary offer until I talk to my parents,' " Hofer said. "Or they actually bring their parents to the job interview."

(snip)

Yet parents today often seem to want to experience college through their children, Mastrodicasa said. Or at least to control what their children experience. Every year during freshman orientation, UF separates students from parents during class registration. "There's always a meltdown," Mastrodicasa said, "Because the parents want to be there when their kids pick their classes." Hofer said Middlebury College has given up trying to force students into deciding on classes themselves. "I watch it happen every time. The students just whip out their cell phones and send Mom a text."

http://www.tampabay.com/news/education/college/tethered-to-mother-at-college/1029610#

[SoCalDem]

1. Creepiness factor? on a scale of 1 to 10?.. 23

I guess I'm a neglectful Mom,, my grown kids call me & complain that i don't call THEM enough :rofl:
and i don;t even KNOW the email addresses for 2 of them :rofl:

[City of Mills]

76. Well, he came from college just the other day

So much like a man, I just had to say "Son, I'm proud of you, can you sit for a while?" - He shook his head, and said with a smile "What I'd really like dad is to borrow the car keys - see ya later, can I have them please?"

[SoCalDem]

98. Good song..not applicable in our family though

We raised them to be grown ups, and were active in their young lives, but they are 30-somethings now with lives of their own to live, and when they need us we're here..we just do not intrude in their day to day lives..

:)

[Lex]

2. When I was in college in the mid-80's I called home only once per week.

On Wednesday nights. Just to check in and tell my parents everything was fine and I was okay.

I talk to them way more now than I did as a college kid--I was busy with classes and having fun!

[endarkenment]

16. When I was in college I called home once a semester to get more money.

And that was only for the first couple of years of my rather extended 12 year on and off and on again college career. By the time I was actually serious about getting a degree I was paying my own way anyhow so 'calling home' was to check in with my girlfriend to see what was up. Then again between a pell grant, a righteous student loan, and egads work, the cost of going to school was not 20% of a house a year. Life sure was a lot easier and there was a lot less pressure. I feel sorry for kids, my kids included, that this has all become so damn serious.

[JerseygirlCT]

33. I couldn't do that -

at least for my sophomore and junior years, my family lived half a world away. Phone calls were out of the question expensive. (Yes, this was back in the Stone Age).

But that's what we do now with my son - he's to give us a call once a week. Otherwise, we don't bug him, though he's allowed to call anytime.

[RT Atlanta]

3. Long distance used to cost a fortune!

I phoned my folks once a week, on Sundays, to check in (couldnt afford to do more) and otherwise, any calls were initiated by my folks (and not too frequently, but just "enough")

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. The cellphone, email, and texting make connecting easier. I see kids calling their parents daily.

[medeak]

5. have sons and it's totally different

they answer a text but there's no helicopter mom allowed.

[Old and In the Way]

23. Same here.

Daughter makes almost daily calls to us (I have no idea what my wife and daughter can talk about for 30-60 minutes at a time). Son? He's only in touch when he needs something. If you need to know what he's doing, check his AIM away message.

[no_hypocrisy]

6. I know a college junior who has always sent his papers home to his father,

an attorney, to proofread and edit. The kid has bogus grades IMO.

[XemaSab]

59. When e-mail came around I had my mom edit some of my stuff

and God help me, I sent her work stuff to edit too.

Why not?

She's in the same field I'm in, and her edits teach me what to look for. :shrug:

[question everything]

65. What will happen when you are in the real world

and have to prepare a presentation and mom is not around?

You have to learn to rely on other resources, peers, for example.

[XemaSab]

100. I am in the real world

and she knows more about the field than any other people I work with.

Why not shoot her an email and get her take on it? :shrug:

[Mariana]

108. Having a mentor is a good thing.

Yours happens to be your mom. Congratulations! I think it's great. She must be very proud of you.

[XemaSab]

143. Thanks!

:hi:

[PVnRT]

120. The real world? Where other people read and comment on your work?

That real world?

[question everything]

123. Peers. Spouse

A measure of adulthood is the ability to form new ties to live the rest of our lives when our parents are no longer able to hold our hands.

This does not mean we have to ditch them once we leave home; it does mean that we need to get out of the cocoon.

This is a major reason why so many object to "home schooling." Going out to kindergarten and to schools means having to interact with others who don't know the first thing about you, who do not care about you, who may even dislike you.

It means that where you are faced with difficulties at some point you may not be able to run home to mommy and you will have to develop new sills and ties. And, yes, you may not have them to share with future happy occasions.

[redqueen]

7. This strikes me as very odd... the author seems to assume

that all kids go off to college. Many don't. So... yes, weird. Very weird.

[question everything]

8. I don't think so. But it used to be that leaving home at around age of 18

whether to the military or to college or just to the big city to start a job was a sign of cutting the chord.

This was an opportunity for young men and women to be responsible for their actions and their own mistakes. An opportunity to be judged by what they were, instead of just who they were, even though, of course, one could show daddy's money.

No doubt, college can extend the days of dependency, compared to the military or a job.

And, I think, kids who come back home to live there until late 20s or longer are more from college than, say, other venues of adulthood.

[redqueen]

10. It seems to me that that is mostly recent history.

Before that, many families stayed together in large family groups, sharing large homes or living close to each other, and supported each other both financially and in other ways.

[SemiCharmedQuark]

17. Once again, I'll say that this attitude is not applicable to every culture.

Hispanics often live at home as adults. It most likely arose out of a way to deal with poverty, but now it's part of our culture. Extended families are quite common.

Both ways have their advantages and disadvantages. I don't like this author's attitude that it's got to be her way or you're a weakling.

[snort]

81. I agree with you.

I love my kids. They are college students. Why the hell would I not want them around? That is one cold ass attitude.

[Lex]

13. No, the author is only talking about those who DO go off to college.

You can tell by the title of the article.

[redqueen]

15. Well yes, of course...

however, the tone of the article is that there's something wrong with families who stay closely connected.

[EFerrari]

22. Bad boundaries.

:evilgrin:

[JeanGrey]

89. There IS something wrong with kids who take

parents to a job interview!

[LeftishBrit]

131. Unless the parents are trying for the same job!

I do remember once being phoned by a student's mother to find out if I could help her (the mother, not the student) to get a grant!

[JeanGrey]

142. Oh Lord, are you joking? LOL

[snooper2]

116. closely connected meaning talking on the phone every 3 hours?

Jeez...

I may be a little jaded though since mother-in-law has been coming over from 3-10 for the past three days "hovering" again.

Yeah, it's going to be her first grandchild in just 8 weeks but jeesh...we got this under control :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[present and past]

35. Writer Forgot About The Recession.

Yes, the writer is weird. He / she doesn't seem to know that the recession is forcing many 18 - year - olds to choose colleges within commuting distance from parents. The transportation from parents to an Ivy League school 300 miles away costs too much, not to mention the tuition, dorm housing and cafeteria meals.

[northzax]

40. nobody is turning down an Ivy because of 200 miles of transportation costs

ir's not like it's a commuter situation.

[EFerrari]

47. No kidding. n/t

[redqueen]

52. The article is just poorly written all the way around. Sexist, too.

Parents have to start teaching their kids to think for themselves WAY before they leave for college, IF they even do go away to college.

It's just a crap article. Sad, really... cause they have a point... they just failed to make it clearly.

And I love how the title implies that it's only mothers involved in this stuff. :eyes:

[question everything]

66. What's that got to do with the story?

It is not the communication per se; it is the need for parents to be part of the course selection, the assignments, editing the papers, etc.

Please read it again, from the beginning, with no "pre-existing" bias.

To add: when I and my siblings went to college we lived at home. We were not going to expect our parents to pay for room and board and school and supplies were expensive.

However it would have never dawned on us to get our parents involved in taking the courses, finishing our assignments or, worse, call the instructors to debate with them, that some "helicopter" parents do.

[QC]

88. The community college kids do it, too.

Mommy and Daddy come to advising sessions, call to see if little Brytneigh is coming to class, etc.

It's weird as hell and gets worse every year.

[redqueen]

113. And I'm sure it happens with kids who aren't in college at all.

Why this journalist chose to link college to issues of dependence is beyond me.

Horribly written article.

[question everything]

118. Because the story was about college kids

Perhaps you can write - or offer a suggestion - about kids on the factory floor.

[redqueen]

122. Yes, but the issue is over-dependence on parents.

The writer chose to narrow the focus to the over-dedpendence on parents that is demonstrated by college kids (goodness knows why)... and further, chose to call out mothers in the title (which is indefensibly sexist).

[QC]

132. This kind of thing is showing up in the office and even in the military.

One of my students, a drill sergeant, tells me of having recruits' moms and dads call complaining about their little baby being tired.

It's an interesting phenomenon, no doubt about it.

[mitchum]

9. The only time I ever called home during college was when I had a call girl...

as a roommate.
I never had a phone any other time, but a call girl needs a phone installed, so that she can...take calls.

[david13]

11. It's pathetic. These kids can't stand on their own 2 feet. But it is

in part the parents, or maybe totally the parents. Yes, they say "WE are going back to college". No, just the kid is.
When I went to college, my parents didn't know. But even then, 40 years ago, kids would arrive on campus in the company of mommy and daddy.
Oh, well.
dc

[question everything]

68. "Going back to college," or just avoiding the empty nest?

Yes, I am a dinosaur. My parents were not my soul mates that, once I left - for graduate school - they felt as if they've lost a dear trusted friend. They had their own circle of friends. Sure, they felt a sense of emptiness. Not just I and siblings, but our friends. However these parents are needy who are afraid to be alone with their own thoughts; afraid of planning the next phases of their lives. And this is why they welcome their kids back home - even before the recession and the high unemployment. They need to have their kids upstairs at their own rooms, as if they are 12 again.

[snooper2]

117. Then if they do have the "empty nest" some become hoarders...

replacing the missing child with objects...

[carlyhippy]

12. I talk to my kid more than once a week

the first year after we left her at school she had a hard time, living in a new larger city, going to a new school, knowing no one, etc etc. I talked every day the first semester trying to calm her down..the "electronic tether" was going on that year. Now she calls if she needs our help with contacting financial aid or something like that. If the kid needs to call the parents, who is anyone to judge, unless they know the situation, not every situation is the same.

[EFerrari]

21. My grown up, working aunts and uncles used to talk to my grandma

at least once a day. Most nights, they'd drop by the house and we spent time together every weekend. It was GREAT for us kids. This whole American "cut the cord at 18" thing is vastly overrated and flat out not conducive to learning how to be families, imho.

[monmouth]

14. And then when they get into the real "work" world they constantly

need hand-holding and constant reaffirmation. These kids are not independent, only like to work in "groups." My kids were over a thousand miles away from us when in college and it served them well.

[question everything]

20. I completely forgot about it, but some years back

I rescinded a job offer to a young college grad. He asked me something about payments and I said we did not offer that. So then he called HR to ask and HR called me back and nodded in agreement when I said I was going to rescind the offer; that I was not going to have someone whom I could not trust works for me (Legal just wanted to make sure that he was not part of a protected class..)

When I called him to notify him of my decision, he started... blaming his mom, who, supposedly, told him to contact HR directly.

I thought then, and would like to think now that this was an important lesson for him to learn, and to learn this at the beginning of his career.

[renate]

27. my parents gave me good life advice and helped me a lot that way

As teachers themselves, they knew it makes a big difference in creating an impression when students choose to sit at the front of the class rather than the back, to ask questions in class, to take advantages of teachers' office hours, etc. And they still give good advice about non-school things, too. My mom was the one who told me to only take a "no" answer from somebody who was in a position to turn a "no" into a "yes"--that way I'd know that the "no" was the result of a real decision and not a powerless underling simply following orders. (I'm not saying you were a powerless underling, of course--just explaining my mom's rationale.)

Her advice has served me well in dealing with bureaucracy, and her advice isn't that dissimilar from your non-hire's mom's.

Just sticking up for him a little. Parents often give well-meaning advice and when kids take it, and it backfires, I can see how the kids would feel a little aggrieved.

[question everything]

69. We give a lot of advice these days for people on how to hande a job interview

what questions to ask, how to prepare, to thank the interviewer(s) after that, etc.

Do you really think that anyone who asks a question about a policy, receives a reply but then goes behind the future boss's back to HR to ask the same question - sending a message that the boss does not know what he is talking about - will have any chances?

And, BTW, this was going to be a lab work at R&D facilities where we tested existing products, researched news ones and prepared data for a regulatory agency that really really wanted to regulate us.

I was not going to stand behind any of my assistants making sure that they used the right reagents and followed the correct protocol and reported the results accurately. This was a work of trust in their ability and competency and I was not going to have someone who would question my assignments - behind my back. In an interview I would always say: there is not such thing as a stupid question. If something is not clear or you disagree - do speak up!

As I see on many of the responses here: many try to fit their experience for a "one size fits all" - it does not.

It is one thing to be a great buddy with a parent to ask for advice and guidance in life; it is another to let a parent do the assignments, check for completion, even call a teacher.

[monmouth]

28. Part of my job at one time with the magazines was to "keep an eye

on the interns"...usually females who wanted to work in the fashion biz. I begged, almost cried and threatened to quit with a wink in my eye when I was asked to do this. Whiney, needy, young adults who had no idea what "work" actually was. We never hired any of them that I recall..LOL.

[TwixVoy]

36. We had interns at Target stores

When I was in management at Target we would have interns come in every year. There were supposedly interning for Target management spots.

I had to walk around and hand hold them showing them what I did during the day in management. 99% of the time they stood their watching everyone else work instead of working themselves.

Last year I had one who was constantly bitching about how bored she was all day while she leaned against aisles and stared at the floor all day.

The WORST part was that the company coddled them. We were expected to treat them like VIPs and indulge this bull shit every day.

They ate it like crazy too. They thought they were top shit and walked around like they should be treated like gods almost, and treated veteran employees like they were beneath them.

I think the company wanted to let them do that so they would be more inclined to accept a shitty management spot (which at retail SUCKS... they were looking at 32K a year).

[TwixVoy]

32. WTF? Payments?

Payments for what?

[question everything]

63. Did not want to elaborate too much

He had to travel for the interview and wanted to be reimbursed. The company did not do this, not for entry level positions, only for executives or professionals that where enticed.

[JANdad]

101. How far did he have to travel?

????

[question everything]

121. I don't remember. Across a state line

200 -300 miles? I am pretty sure he drove.

[latebloomer]

34. what kind of payments?

[question everything]

64. See 63, above (nt)

[Skittles]

61. oh gawd, do I ever know the type

:thumbsdown:

[jmowreader]

78. That "working in groups" thing just drives me fucking NUTS!!!

The traditional fundraiser for Shrine temples is the circus, and every Shrine temple produces a circus program. They have a big competition to see who has the best program every year. I did the Sudan Temple's program for many years. (Sudan is North Carolina from I-95 to the coast.)

Now understand, a Shrine Temple program isn't some little folded thing. They sell ads. Shitloads of ads. Sudan's program is an inch thick, and Sudan isn't a massive temple. Anyway, we decided that we'd build the book as a group. Fine, no problem...I had two junior operators. I told one to run the scanner, one to lay out the ads and I put the book together. Simple and efficient division of labor. I got my ass chewed because I wasn't "working as a group." When I explained how I divided up the labor my boss said that sounded like the right way to do it, but the kids didn't understand this. Apparently I was supposed to give them whole pages to build, and everyone would do their own scans. (The scanner in question cost fifty bills and was three feet long. We only had one.)

Later on I worked on something for the UNC business school, and it talked about the most important thing they taught--how to work in groups. The big fad in business is to work in groups, everyone tripping over each other, because "we get more done in groups." They use a football team as a reference. Football teams work in groups, so we must. Fine. But have any of these people ever watched football? There are eleven men on the field and all of them have different jobs. Yes, they all contribute to the success of the team, but the four huge guys who keep the other team from killing the quarterback aren't trying to grab the ball and run it down the field, they're trying to keep the quarterback on his feet. The center doesn't run down the field trying to catch the ball, he's responsible for giving the ball to the quarterback. The wide receivers are there to catch the ball, not to keep the quarterback on his feet. Everyone has a different job, and that's how it's got to be. Or go out into their own factories. I'm certain many of the people who work in headquarters elements of manufacturing companies can't do the work the company gets paid for. If they went down there, they'd see the people who mix the chemicals together to make the fertilizer don't also drive forklifts or put labels on bottles. Specialization is a fact of life.

[Creena]

18. I'm extraordinary close to my mom.

I stopped going to school to take care of her, but even when I go back, I'll still live with her while I complete my BA. I plan to attend graduate school, and if she doesn't want to move with me, I see myself contacting her everyday. She's my best friend and means the world to me, so I don't believe the cord will ever be cut to the standards described in the article.

[Deja Q]

19. Depends on the person

Some parents and offspring keep ties, but with the parents acknowledging their children are grown up.

Not all are still breastfed at the age of 25.

Some are, and if they're at the olive garden I'll be sure to bring my camera next time...

[8 track mind]

24. Back in college

i had a math problem that was kicking my ass late one night and i wound up calling my Dad for help. We worked on it over the phone and eventually got it sorted out. Hell the less i talked to my folks the better

[question everything]

72. There is a difference between calling for help once

or twice, and constantly sending assignments home for corrections and assistance.

[8 track mind]

107. I agree. n/t

[JonQ]

25. You should start pushing your kids towards independence

in highschool, and cut the strings entirely when they head off to college.

You aren't doing them favors when you train them to be dependent on you.

It's one thing to have your parents available for advice and emergency help, but you shouldn't need them to get through the day.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

26. I completely agree

There's closeness and then there's "clinginess," where the question is not the child's needs but the parent's neediness.

If there had been a student living in my college dorm (late 1960s, early 1970s) who kept in constant phone contact with her parents, we would have thought her emotionally stunted.

My roommate one year was from a home only a couple of miles away, and her parents still urged her to live on campus so that she would learn self-reliance. Even she didn't call her parents all the time, and it would have been a local call.

It is NO FAVOR to college students to micro-manage their lives. Adolescence is already protracted in American society.

[EFerrari]

31. The human brain doesn't even mature until the mid-20s. n/t

[JonQ]

42. It never matures if it's never given the oppurtunity to

Presumably people will keep learning throughout their lives. Which means they are never fully educated until they are dead, at which point they have learned all they are going to.

That doesn't argue for treating adults as children their entire lives.

Responsibility and self reliance are not inherent, they are something that must be learned.

[EFerrari]

44. Well, no. The human brain matures at about the mid 20s.

Responsibility and self reliance are somewhat learned and they aren't learned in a vacuum. There are plenty of cultures that live in extended families where the younger generation is brought up to mature AND to be interdependent.

[JonQ]

45. And that is not what is going on here

people are training their kids to be dependent, not interdependent.

People are suited to live their own lives by 18, if properly raised.

[EFerrari]

46. That is your cultural bias and one shared, apparently, by the author of this article. n/t

[JonQ]

48. Also true

if you can't make decisions on your own you are dependent, not interdependent.

This isn't some cute cultural quirk that should be embraced any more than feeding your kid nothing but fast food, or sticking him in front of the tv 24/7.

[redqueen]

50. That's true...

but the mistake this writer makes is tying the learning of independence to college. It has nothing to do with college. You can raise children to be able to stand on their own two feet even if they live at home all through college.

It's just dumb, trying to tie it to college for whatever reason. Maybe in the past, that is the only reason some kids ever learned to be independent... but it's just a stupid idea altogether.

[JonQ]

114. I think the college bit

is significant because that is a time when children are supposed to be moving away and establishing their independence. Kind of a trial run for adulthood in a somewhat controlled environment.

And you're right, children can live at home and become independent, just as they can move away and still remain dependent. The parents are the major factor, more so than physical distance.

[EFerrari]

51. Actually, the idea that an adolescent needs to make all his/her decisions alone

is very much part of a cultural practice in our society. And given the high rate of divorce, not a very successful one.

[JonQ]

115. No one said they have to make all decisions

completely in isolation.

But they should be able to make a decision at some point. Being told to follow a particular course is not making a decision.

[question everything]

125. Gee, Mozart was dead at 36

As a matter of fact, until the early 20th Century most people did not live much beyond that age. By their mid 20s many already were working full time - at the farm, at the factory, in the military - and having families.

When the age of 65 was determined as the age of retirement, no one thought that many would live a third of their life beyond that age.

And then we met a retired professor of science who claimed that most scientist are beyond their prime after the age of 35. We were lucky to have employers who disagreed with this attitude.

[EFerrari]

133. By the time I was 22, I had two sons and had been working fulltime

for six years. You don't really have to be an adult to do those things even though, lol, it's a good idea!

[litlady]

29. I have seen this with some of my students.

Even had a student once dislike his grade and said his father was coming to talk to me. Of course since he is an adult, the parent and I are not even allowed to discuss his personal information per federal law!

It is quite scary how some kids are coddled and don't know how to function in the real world. One of my family members is this way. He has never had responsibility and has no understanding of how the world works.

[Creena]

37. Holy Moly!

My mom and I discussed class topics, but that is insane. She enjoys reading my papers, but I always gave her a copy after turning it into the professor.

[TwixVoy]

30. Part of this is JOBS

When I was 18 I could EASILY find a real job that paid a living wage.

Today most 18-25 year olds are looking at service sector jobs that are IMPOSSIBLE to even begin to live off of. As a result they are forced to live off mom and dad for an extended period of time.

[Skittles]

that is true

I think about what I did when I was very young (no assistance from parents, no college, USAF vet who worked my way up) and I know damn well a young person today could do that

[Cleita]

38. My parents got upset when I called collect. They told me to write.

I really didn't have time, so I got postcards and sent a couple of them a week, stating, I'm still alive. Love you. They weren't that satisfied with that kind of communication but didn't change their minds about the collect calls.

[JerseygirlCT]

39. Hmmm...

Calls are once a week here - more if he likes, but the once a week call is his to make to us.

I am on Facebook, and my son and I will see each others' updates. But as he said to me, it's nice that I rarely interject myself. And I don't go reading his wall. It's often just an easier way to e-mail, since we're both on FB fairly often.

I did get several excited texts in the first weeks of his freshman year. But that's because he joined the college Dems and met Obama (shook his hand twice, mom!) and talked with Bob Casey, and saw Kathleen Sebelius. I think those were text-worthy, myself!

As to wishing I was back in college. Yeah. You bet - I'd be there again in a heartbeat. And I attended the same school - so there's that layer, too. But both his parents also understand that this is his experience, and an important one.

Basically we leave the impetus to communicate up to him. And when he needs help, he comes to us - but otherwise, I certainly recognize how important these years are in his development.

[david13]

41. Who is to judge? Well, perhaps, how about ... a Judge.

Ha ha.
But while it is true the kids today don't, in some cases make enough money on these starting jobs to be independent, the parents need to, at some age, start teaching the kids independence.
And that must start before age 18, and in many cases is achieved well before age 18, to the benefit of the kid.
An easy way to teach someone to swim, is to push them into the pool.
Then it's sink or swim, rarely, almost never, do they sink.
But more importantly, every kid out there will soon, in a different way, be pushed into a pool, so they better know how to swim, there won't be time to call (or text) mommy to find out how to do it.
They got to know, themselves.
In graduate school, all too often, students must be told "there will be no spoon feeding here!" That means they have to think, learn to think, for themselves.
dc

[litlady]

43. I saw a bit of spoonfeeding even in grad school...

I had one classmate who was doing graduate teaching but had never had a job or left his parent's house. He definitely felt entitled to everything he got.

[EFerrari]

49. My best friend found out in grad school that she had an undiagnosed

learning disability -- which was why it was so hard for her to read 300+ pps every night. She always compensated so well, no one noticed she'd never really read a book in college -- as an English major.

There are a lot of growing up issues that still come up even in the grad years.

[treestar]

56. This article presumes that merely talking to your parents means you

are "dependent" on them.

This does not have to be so.

I have known people who were close to their parents and talked to them a lot but also were independent - had jobs and paid for their own cars, etc.

[JeanGrey]

92. Every two hours?

[treestar]

139. No way

But I did have a roommate once who talked to her mother a couple of times a day - asked about her brothers and what they'd done that day, seemed very close to her family. But she also had worked and was paying for her own education from the savings. Had her own car she had paid for herself. Which was much more than I had done at that point. And I called and talked to my parents once in a blue moon.

[JeanGrey]

141. Any college student that has to talk to Mom every two hours

is definitely over protected. Their parents aren't helping them.

[JeanGrey]

91. Funny, when I was that age there was no "didn't make enough

money" to live, you simply lowered you standard of living until it fit.

[question everything]

127. And then, if they cannot find a job

they sue the university. Heard about that one.

[ladywnch]

53. I had my own phone in my dorm room at college.

I used to catch hell for not calling home often enough! If I didn't call home once a week (which happened often) when I did finally call I'd get chewed out for the delay. Don't get me wrong, if something extraordinary or great happened I'd call to share it with them but generally I didn't feel the need to constantly call them for every little thing.

I've got 2 step kids and I agree; today's parents are WAY too hovering/clingy in their kids lives. Husband and I are trying very hard to push responsibility and independence on them but our efforts get undone by their mother.

[EFerrari]

54. Calling home once a week is a good family building habit.

When I got married, my husband had no such habit and as he was the last chick out, his mom missed him very much. I grew up in a big family and got him to call his mom every Sunday.

That developed into a weekly Sunday dinner and pretty soon, his sibs were coming, too.

I can't believe I had the presence of mind to do that because I was a very immature 22 year old. But now my kids remember their dinners with Grandma June as fondly as they remember anything about their childhood. Oh, and she was hella fun. She's been gone for 15 years and we all still miss her like crazy. :)

[treestar]

55. I don't know, maybe late 1960s - 1970s America was an unusual

culture.

Most cultures value the input of older people. I know of people from other cultures who do value the advice of their elders - it doesn't mean they are dependent on them. It just means they value the input the more experienced can give.

Parents have fewer children these days, too. And they are more open about social relationships. I could not ask my parents for any such advice in the 1970s because they would be horrified at what went on in dating relationships in those days - they would not want to have known. That was their generation. But the current parents generation was young in post sexual revolution era.

Then a lot of this is due to the electronics of this age. No one in college in the 60s or 70s can prove they would NOT have talked to their parents if they had a cheap and simple way to do it - the parents were more likely worried about high phone bills then. And they had a higher number of other kids then.

And it was the fashion to bash the older generations then. It was the "in" attitude. Yet it's a pretty bigoted one when you think about it, or not one that the current middle aged generation deserves - not sticking their heads in the sand or refusing to acknowledge change or being authoritarian.

[question everything]

75. There is nothing wrong with talking with parents, and uncles, and grandparents

on a regular basis, to seek advice and guidance.

But that story emphasized two things:

First, this is your first time away from home, you need to learn to adjust, to make your own decisions. You need to interact with peers and counselors, you need to learn from your own mistakes.

Second, while you may want to call home to ask dad about his experience in Vietnam, because this is your assignment, routinely sending assignments home for corrections and editing is immature. You will pass the course but you fail the course of getting to be an adult.

This is what amazes me in many of the responses here: it is not about talking to mom and dad and seeking advice and guidance; it is about clinging, being unable to make one's own decision.

[treestar]

140. You know what it could be from

When I was in college and a kid was before the days there was so much fear about kidnapping and other disasters. We could run wild in the neighborhood and in college we were just in another town. I walked to school - nowadays parents feel perhaps rightly that they have to watch the kids more due to more perceived danger. I see parents walk the kids to the bus stop now and realize it never would have been so when I was a kid.

The school shootings for example. Parents are maybe more likely to need reassurance that the kid is OK - and they have fewer children, so they are more invested in each one.

Sending the paper for proofreading seems a bit much until you realize that with email it's so easy - if you had your roommate do that for you, that wouldn't be seen as dependent, and maybe it's no more than that.

Now if the parent edits the paper, that's another thing.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

57. Their business. nt

[TwixVoy]

58. So when they want mommy to sit in an employment interview with them

is it their business then too?

When I was a manager at Target I was actually asked if mom could come to the interview with at least two applicants I can remember.

[The2ndWheel]

60. It's weird how things work sometimes

We want people to have a greater sense of community, of helping people, but at the same time we kick kids out of the house as soon as possible. We want people to be completely independent as soon as possible, yet we want everyone to pay into a health system that would make each of us dependent on each other from cradle to grave. We want the most amount of independence as we could possibly imagine, and at the same time a grand collective goal to some shared future destination. Nobody should be dependent on anyone, but nobody can exist alone on an island.

It's the conflicting messages that can be odd. We want the best of both the individual and collective worlds. We don't want 50% of each one, we want 100% of each one. We've got two glasses, but only enough water for one. We can't fill both to the top.

Of course, bottom line, a lot of it has to do with the price of energy. The cheaper it is, the less people need each other. The more expensive the energy, the more people need each other. When gas is $0.50 a gallon, everyone is in the car. Their own car. When gas is $4.00 a gallon, it's sharing a ride, taking the train, getting on the bus, etc.

[aikoaiko]

62. students calling for advice is fine - parents meeting/calling me (prof) without student is very bad

Especially the ones that call me to tell me how unreasonably difficult I am as a professor.


mwa-hahahahahahahaha.

[Xithras]

67. You get that too?

My standard refrain is: "Federal law prohibits me from discussing confidential student information with anyone but the student." It's fun watching their heads explode. I've had to call security more than once because I take a very intolerant position with helicopter parents, and some just don't react well to my attitude.

Then again, I started my classes this morning with my other standard refrain: "As of this moment, you all have an F in my class. If you want anything better, I expect you to earn it. Doing only the minimum level of assigned work in this class will earn you no better than a C."

The groan was palpable.

[aikoaiko]

119. Yes, and I say much the same thing regarding student privacy.

It does drive them nuts. mwahahahahaha

[hedgehog]

70. I've dropped off kids at college five times before with no problems.

Actually, I was usually working so my husband dropped them off.

# 3 should have been a warning - her school expected the parents to show up with her for orientation in the middle of summer.

Anyways, #6 is going to school 30 miles away. Her school combined drop-off day with orientation so instead of getting her moved in, making sure she had her books and waving bye-bye, we ended up running around all day from meeting to meeting. The day was so programed she had no time to get done the odds and ends she needed to get done. Then I was worried because she was worried. She managed just fine in the end, though.

[hedgehog]

71. I honestly thought this was going to be a thread about mothers taking their young kids

to class with them.

[chrisa]

73. Kind of ridiculous.

Going away to college doesn't make you a mature person.

[LisaL]

99. Exactly. 18 is not some magic number at which someone immediately

becomes totally independent.

[Initech]

74. Motherboy?

*waits to see if anyone gets the reference*

[wickerwoman]

93. Upon her knee... so proud to be....

Mother and boy.

:evilgrin:

Best show ever.

[Regret My New Name]

77. "I can't accept that salary offer until I talk to my parents,"

hehehe sadly I know that feeling... Not anymore, of course. Also, I never actually told anyone that.

[YoungAndOutraged]

79. So adults even talking to their parents is taboo in America now?

That's what I got out of the article. I'll never understand what makes some people equate adults that don't terminate all contact with their parents the day they turn eighteen, as if they're the hero of some role-playing game, with roaches swimming in a toilet bowl.

[LisaL]

83. Exactly.

How does talking with a mother on the phone makes a person "tethered?"
Someone has a close relationship with their parents, and that is now a problem?

[rebecca_herman]

105. Exactly

My sister called SO often when she was in college. I'm honestly surprised she picked a school so far away. She is now almost 30, married, soon to be a mom herself, had a career for almot 10 years until the economy killed her company and she figured she'd take the opportunity to be a stay at home mom for a few months. And she still calls often to talk to my mother and they see each other fairly often (at least once a week lately since she needs help getting everything ready for the baby).

I still live with my parents (drat my useless college degree and lack of money). I'm very close to my mother and I don't see that as a negative thing. I chose to live at home during college because quite honestly, dorm life did not appeal to me and would have been an utter disaster with my personality. I have a weird sleep schedule, I REALLY need my personal space, noise drives me nuts, I couldn't stand the campus food, I have some chronic health problems... it was just what worked for me and being in a dorm would not have worked. I'd love to live on my own now if I had the money, but in a home that's my own, not a dorm. Living with my parents and being close to my mother hasn't prevented me from learning how to run a household or any other adult things. If I won the lottery tomorrow I'd be out of here in 10 seconds... but I'd still call my mother to chat often. :) I would love to buy a house nearby and raise my future children close by so we can get together with my parents often. In the meantime I do what I can to pay them back by preparing my own food, helping with the laundry, watching the house when they are on vacation, etc.

My mother lived at home until she married, my father until less than a year before he married, my sister until she had a stable job/income after college, my brother same thing. It's not seen as odd in my family to live with your parents until you are financially stable and the preference is to have the adult children live with parents until they can save the money rather then valuing independence above all even if it means barely making ends meet and not living in the safest/most comfortable place.

[question everything]

128. You must have difficulties with understanding what you read

I think that some community colleges offer remedial courses to correct this.

The problem is not about talking to your parents. Most of us do so until we sadly lose them.

The problem is calling mommy to ask about course selections, about assignment about - see some posts above - calling the teacher to challenge a grade. And taking mommy for a job interview.

You prepare a child for adulthood by knowing that you will not always be around. That he has to find his own strength and new ties to make a decision and to make mistakes.

[Evoman]

80. In what way is it "normal" to go to college and leave your parents?

1)In some culture you never leave your family. It's unheard of to travel and leave your parents completely.

2)In our culture's past, most people didn't even GO to college. Unless you were in the military, you always lived near your parents. Unless you were wealthy, living far away to study barely happened.

It's our current cultural bias that you NEED to travel away from your parents to be independant. Not true. Independance is not about how often you talk to your parents, or the means you use to speak to them. It's about HOW you relate to them. If you talk to them everyday, but make your own decisions, that's fine. If you run to them every time you have a problem, and expect them to deal with it, then it's not.

[redqueen]

111. Exactly... this article is just horribly written.

The issue of independence in decision-making has nothing to do with going away to college, nor is it directly related to mothers as opposed to fathers.

[question everything]

129. But this story IS about college kids

not about parents who will stay at the room when a date comes over, or who drive with the couple to a movie or to dinner. Wonder how those of you who object to the college angle would react to such a scenario.

There is one thing about talking to parents - some of us do this to the day we lose them - and another to run to them when one has to make a decision. When one is dependent on them - as was mentioned - to remind them of their assignment and, read posts upstream: when they call daddy to challenge a grade with a teacher. Or when they bring them to interview. This last point is true whether or not the applicant is a college grad.

Becoming adult means that one has to know that parents, and aunts and uncles, will not always be around. Meaning being able to make decisions on one's own, and developing new ties and support groups.

Why is this so difficult to understand? And if you are not a college grad, why carry this chip on a shoulder?

[LisaL]

82. How does talking to a mother on a phone makes someone

tethered?
It's not like mother lives in a college dorm with the student.

[PA Democrat]

84. Oh no. This mom just got off the phone with her son at college.

He just started his sophomore year and we typically talk a few times a week, but I have never proofread a paper for him and never picked his classes. He occasionally asks for advice and I like to get a read on what his thoughts are before I interject my own. Sometimes we think so much alike that it is frightening. Sometimes we disagree and sometimes we actually learn from each other.

I think it is possible to have a close relationship and at the same time encourage independence.

[LisaL]

85. I don't see anything wrong with proofreading a paper

if the parents are capable of it.

[Beaverhausen]

103. College students should be able to proofread their own papers

I think that is a bit much.

[LisaL]

104. Even professional writers have editors.

[EFerrari]

134. This college Eng teacher has as many people proof her work as possible.

:)

[Beaverhausen]

136. I agree proofing papers is essential but just not sure parents should do it

How about other students or TAs?

IMHO college is a good time to learn to be independent and find one's own way while not being completely on your own.

[EFerrari]

137. Sure. The most important survival skill college kids learn that first year

is how to use other students and faculty, no doubt.

I just can't get all excited about kids using their parents for some of this stuff because, when you think about it, most people start taking steps away from their parents when they learn to say "No!" in English at about two. The rest is mostly details. :)

[AwakeAtLast]

86. I think this behavior is fostered early in primary school

I am not teacher bashing, I just know that parental involvement is much more strongly encouraged now than when I was in school. My mother never had to sign our assignment notebooks (becase we didn't HAVE them) every night like I have to for my 7 y/o. My mother never knew if I even had homework, let alone if I actually did it. Guess what? I always did it, never forgot, and was able to graduate and go on to college! Amazing!

[JeanGrey]

94. Unfortunately that isn't the case today. Lots and lots

of students NEVER do their homework so they have to put into place elaborate schemes to try and trap them into doing it.

[JeanGrey]

87. EWWWW are you kidding??? They bring their

PARENTS to a job interview? Oh, my god. I suspect this might be another reason why kids refuse to leave home until they are 40 if they ever do. This is weird.

[Jennicut]

90. I talk to my Mom every day, I am 33. She is my best friend. In college,

we talked every day too. 15 years of talking almost every day (unless on vacation with the family or too sick or exhausted to call). We have a great relationship and we have helped each other with many things over the years.
I also have diabetes and am home alone with two children who are only 5 and 4 so I think part of it is a call to check on me as I have passed about twice before. She is a good Mom, I am grateful to have her.
However, I don't have her do anything for me except watch my kids...friendship with independence is a good thing.

[Odin2005]

95. Ugh, the over-protected kids have grown up...

[Brooklyns_Finest]

96. Lack of Independence

I went up state to college when I was 17 years old. I joined the Marine Corps reserves at 18,only telling my parents about my enlistment a few weeks before shipping off to boot camp. While in college, I never called home. In fact, the only time the family would hear from me is doing the holidays, when I went back home. I decided to move to California from NY when I was 25. At the time, I new 1 person in Los Angeles. He was a military buddy that let me crash at his place until I was able to get on my feet. It took me 9 months to settle in to my own in the city of angels. Throughout the whole time, I contacted home on a limited basis. Six years later, still living in California, I have been quite successful both career wise and socially. I attribute my success to being an independent minded person. If it was up to my parents, I would still be living with them to this day.

My totally dependant brother and sister are nothing but a burden to my aging parents. I wish my siblings had a quarter of my independent nature, because if they did, they would be in a better situation today. In 10 years or so, I am probably going to be my parents caretaker. I have no problem with this, but I truly feel that as a youngster, I needed to go at things alone, to be in a position to be able to take care of my parents.

[flvegan]

97. I was a latchkey kid by the time I was 9.

Looking back, yeah it was hard being responsible for so much at such a young age but I'm thankful for my early and ongoing independence.

[Contrary1]

102. Have to work for a happy medium...

It would have been nice if my daughter had been more in touch with us, since she was involved in an abusive relationship her freshman year.

By the time she told us about it, she feared for her life.

[JNelson6563]

106. Job related

This summer I had a girl apply for a job. The mother had been in a few times to tell me all about how much her daughter looooooooooooved our store. She dragged the daughter in at spring break, stage mother right outta central casting. Of course come summer in comes the girl to apply. I interviewed her as I did many others. Then it began in earnest. The parents coming in daily, telling me their daughter had interviewed and how much she loved the place. It was really creepy. I felt like I'd have to deal with them regularly, like scheduling needs and the like. I felt like I'd be hiring the whole family and, to be honest, I didn't like them very much, they creeped me out. Once I let the girl know she didn't get the job they disappeared.

Weird. Smothering parents aren't doing their kids any favors.

Julie

[question everything]

138. This is creepy

I think we've all seen parents and other acquaintances mentioning names of teens for summer jobs and later, we call this "networking."

But the idea is that you just mention the name and perhaps facilitate an initial interview. But pushing the hiring manager or, as some teachers posted here, pushing the teacher is too much.

[Beer Snob-50]

109. my wife would call my son 3-4 times a week when he was away last year

sometimes unfortunatly she would call while he was having a good time. or worse yet she would nag me to call him because she was at work and didn't have time that day to call him.

thankfully this year he will be going to the local community college and is back at home (he didn't do so well his year away from home, i think he is his fathers son)

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

110. This article is hitting home. On Friday I took my oldest son to his new college.

Actually not quite to the college but a luxury residential hotel that NYS is paying for additional dorm space. There is a shuttle bus that takes him to the campus.

He's a whole 40 minutes from my home.

On Sunday there were a few back and forth calls concerning his new phone, and yesterday exchanging emails concerning his computer. I will now sit on my diaing fingers and check his Facebook for updates.

BTW...he's 22 years old and although quite brilliant, with the twists and turns of life took a few years to get credits and the index he needed to get into this college.

[EFerrari]

135. I got a dog. A big dog.

lol

:hi:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

148. lol! I still have my big puppy here, my youngest son. :) A big dog would

be out of the question. I have 3 kitties who have enough trouble getting along at times. :) No more drama!

:hi:

[LeftishBrit]

112. A lot of this is due to the economy IMO...

Young people are more financially dependent on their parents (at least if the latter have any money!) so they are also more dependent in other ways. Similarly, many may be forced to live at home (and choose their college accordingly) because of inability to afford the high rents that are common in university towns.

[Iris]

124. This has been going on for at least a decade.

In fact, recruiters from major corporations now tailor their recruiting efforts to in include parents as well as prospective employees.

[LeftishBrit]

130. I may be extrapolating from the UK...

but here, after having a totally free higher education system for decades, Blair introduced student fees in the late 90s. It's still not nearly as expensive here as in the USA; but, as we didn't have an existing structure of scholarships, or of flexible modular university courses that make it possible to work your way through college (at least in most British institutions), it created a fair bit of financial difficulty for students. The really poor do get fee exemptions, but the income threshold for that is set unrealistically low. Therefore, the financial situation for British students worsened long before the current recession.

[Iris]

144. ah, I see.

Wow. I didn't know that was going on there.

Here it's probably a combination of things - technology, career-women dropping everything to stay home with kids and then making the kids their lifelong career and taking micro-managing to whole new realm.

[LibertyLover]

126. I called home every Sunday evening when I was out in Chicago

at college. Heck, one time I injured my knee pretty badly in an intermural game of softball to the point where I was on crutches and had been to the ER and I still waited to Sunday evening to tell my mom about it. I hope that when my little girl goes to college she will call a bit more often, maybe twice a week, but I really don't want to be in a position to be advising her on her love life or job prospects.

[EFerrari]

145. My mom handed out advice like cake at a wedding

lol, and so did my four aunts and four uncles. That was just how they showed me they cared about me among the tribe of cousins. Not that I ever followed much of it but it was nice to know someone was interested. :)

[Skittles]

146. when I left to go into the Air Force my mum never even said goodbye

I can count on one hand the number of times she has called me in the past 34 years (to tell me some relative died)...any kind of mom behavior sounds weird to me

[VOX]

147. My stepson is 24, still in college, has never worked a job, and his mom pays his cell phone bill...

This kid has me stumped. He's 24 years old, has never had a girlfriend or boyfriend (if he's gay that's fine, he'd be supported all the way with that), has never worked a minute in his life (including summer jobs), has no close friends to speak of, has no car (just got his driver's license this summer), and he doesn't seem to be concerned with anything much. In fact, he's genuinely cheerful most of the time. He's an average student who's struggled with grades his entire scholastic life. He's had counseling (many times), and invariably, the same conclusion is reached -- there's nothing "wrong" with him, he just needs time.

When he stays over in summer and on holidays, he and his mom got to movies, restaurants, etc., and she foots the bill every time. She pays for his iPhone bill, his tuition and room and board. He's a total money-suck on our household. She says he's just slow to develop, but I say she's encouraging his slowness by doing everything for him, including being his companion, which always leads to a massive meltdown, with me being the "bad guy."

This makes me crazy on several counts. He sleeps in until 2:00 PM or later, and when he finally rolls out of bed, he talks with his mom, who then orders what's left of his day -- "why don't you walk to the mall?" and so on, which continues the pattern of his being dependent on her for so much. Because of her heavy involvement with work, I have precious little time with my wife as it is. When her son shows up, I'm pushed to the margin.

I reached flash-point a couple of weeks ago -- back at school, he wrote on Facebook that he "misses being with my mom." A 24-year old young man, publicly misses spending time with his mom? That is such a foreign concept to me -- not missing one's mom, but not doing anything to fill that emotional need with someone outside the family. I just don't get it. With my wife's blessing, I emailed him, basically saying that the gravy train is coming to a halt, and that he has to look for work when he finishes school, and to not rely on us for companionship to the exclusion of having his own life. I received no response, which doesn't surprise me, but my wife says he got the message.

He's a sweet kid, doesn't do drugs and stays out of trouble. But jeez, he's taken underachieving to a heroic level. My options are limited: suck it up, or leave, and neither feels good. The idea of him being underfoot when he finishes school just fills me with dread; but the idea of walking away from my wife would be very destructive -- she and I are very finely tuned to each other, and I love her very much.

But I'll never understand why a young man isn't excited to make his own way, or isn't interested in taking a shot at having nurturing, supportive friendships or relationships. God, I couldn't wait to be free of my family, and to get out into the world and do my own thing. Have times changed that much? :shrug:

[EFerrari]

149. Are you guys sure there isn't something else going on?

My ex was a lot like that and he wasn't lazy or a overly dependent. In fact, he was more or less of a workoholic but his mind just worked a little differently. It turned out that he was a very high functioning Aspie who had just never been diagnosed. I married him when he was 37.

The smarter someone is and the better they compensate, the harder it is sometimes to get a good DX.

Expecting someone to "suck it up" isn't really a plan, you know. It's a demand that you can't really enforce. When was the last time someone took a good look at him?

Anyway, I understand how frustrating it can be to fold someone into your life when their MO is so different than yours. (And I'm sure my husband was frustrated as well to have to deal with someone whose MO was so different from his own. :) )