Dumb Anus

[Timbuk3]

I'm guessing everyone already knows that Don Imus has been dropped by MSNBC and CBS radio, by now, for calling the Rutgers women's basketball team a bunch of "nappy headed hos."

Nothing about this feels right.

Now, before I go on, let me say that I don't mind being flamed. I just don't want to be flamed for A) defending Don Imus or what he said, B) ignoring the effect of his words on the innocent victims, the young women who nearly won the national championship, C) "knee-jerk" reacting to "defend a liberal" (Imus is not a liberal, but it makes no difference, anyway, the media is calling him one), D) "insensitive" to racism, E) ignoring an ongoing pattern of "hate speech" by Imus, F) I don't acknowledge the advertiser's right to stop spending their money to advertise on his show or, G) I somehow "support" "hate radio."

I'm not doing any of those things.

It's just that I've always believed in this: "I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." I still believe in that.

So, let's agree on something. What Imus said was wrong. Even he admits it. He was fired, anyway. (Part of what bothers me is that this seems to reinforce the Bushie/RW MO of "never admit you're wrong, make them prove it." Bush hasn't been fired.)

People make mistakes. It's when they won't acknowledge that what they did was wrong that I get bent out of shape.

Pat Robertson asks his listeners to pray for the deaths of SCOTUS judges. He's never apologized. He's still on the air, presumably because he owns the station. Do we live in a country where owning the station allows you to say anything you want, but being an employee means your words are under the owner's control?

Ann Coulter called John Edwards a "faggot" at a "conservative" convention. She lost some advertisers, but she's still spewing her hatred, particularly on her website, which she presumably pays for. Ann's never apologized. The "conservatives" still buy her books, and I'd be shocked if she doesn't show up at another one of their conventions.

Rush Limbaugh's list of offenses is long, from calling Donovan McNabb a "token negro" (not Rush's words, but his meaning was clear enough, although I guess he got fired for that one) to calling Chelsea Clinton a dog, to making fun of Michael J. Fox, to...it's a long damned list and I'm not going to go through it all here. Rush has never apologized, and he's still on the air. Presumably because he controls "the EIB network."

"Never admit you did something wrong" prevails.

Alright, so that's three, and there are plenty more: Howard Stern's a "shock jock." John Stewart and Bill Maher sure don't hold back their contempt for "certain people." Glenn Beck's always spouting off about muslims, and he's mild compared to Bill Orally. Remember Jerry Falwell blaming gays and abortion for the attacks of 911? Hell, that's nothing. We're actually holding elections to legalize bigotry against gays. (Disclaimer: I am not gay, but bigotry, including Imus' bigotry, pisses me off.) And if you think gays have it bad, listen to what wing-nut radio has to say about muslims, here in the land of "freedom of religion." Better yet, read Michelle Malkin, some time. Now there's a freaky chick. (Yeah, I know, I'm fired for being a misogynist. I'll get over it, since I don't get paid a damned dime for posting.)

The list of people who say things that someone, somewhere might find objectionable just goes on and on. There's "fat jokes", and "dee dee dee" jokes and midget jokes and "blonde jokes" and...ask the mother of a "mentally challenged" child if she thinks "retard" jokes are funny.

If this seems disjointed, or like it's not driving toward any point, reread the second sentence. "Nothing about this feels right." I don't know what the hell is going on, here, but I can't help but ask myself, "where does 'freedom of speech' end?", when did "my right to change the channel" get replaced by "my right to get someone fired", and "who's next?"

Michael Wienersavage got fired for this. http://www.timbuk3.com/WeinersFireLine.mov

Bill Orally? He can do shit like this, shouting down the son of a WTC victim, and Fox just keeps him on "because he brings in the ratings." http://www.timbuk3.com/glick.mp3

Will someone be fired for making a joke about bald guys? What if it's a guest on their show that makes the joke, and they don't "severely chastise" them quickly enough? Do some people have "more free speech" than others?

I dunno. I can't wrap this post up because I don't get it. The "liberals" who have been calling for Imus' head sound too much like the "pro-capital punishment" crowd from my perspective, saying no matter how much he apologizes, how sincere he is, some "crimes" just can't be forgiven.

I'm not defending Imus. I could care less about him, personally. Give him a bottle of water, he looks all dried up, to me. (Oh, shit, can I get fired for that?) But then there's this: "sticks and stones may break my bones, but I have 3 fucking remotes next to my easy chair and I can change the channel when someone pisses me off with their stupidity." (Oh, shit, can I get fired for saying "fucking"? I already know I'd get a big fine if I show too much skin.)

I'd love it if Rush and Ann would just shut the fuck up. It's just that I've never thought it was my "right" to "make them."

I'm afraid this could have a chilling effect on who can say what on the air. Or maybe it's that it might have a temporary "chilling" effect on public racism, but not really anything else, and after it all blows over we'll go back to "business as usual", which means hate speech of practically any kind is perfectly acceptable, as long as it's not aimed at "nappy headed hos".

Let the flaming begin, I suppose, but if anyone understood what I just said (I'm not even sure I did, so goodonya) I'd appreciate some constructive criticism, too.

Believe me, I'm not "taking a stand", I'm trying to decide if "we" just "won", or "lost". Since I'm not perfect, I'm sure I pissed someone off.

[NormanYorkstein]

1. Where's my radio show? It's my First Amendment Right!

What about my right to have a radio show!

[Timbuk3]

3. Buy one

Oh, wait. You're probably not a wealthy corporation sucking off the teat of the military industrial complex.

Never mind.

You don't get free speech in America. Or decent representation in congress.

You can't afford it.

Now you'll have to forgive me if I don't comment on Sanjaya's hair, tonight. Wouldn't be prudent in today's "environment."

[Fresh_Start]

2. freedom of speech comes with consequences

the government has no right to restrict it.
But Imus's employer does.
His sponsors do.
His listeners do.

Freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. It means freedom from government restrictions.

As an employee of a company, there are many things I cannot say about the company or about my personal views while I'm in my role of employee.

[Timbuk3]

7. Does his employer have that right?

What if every news outlet in America was owned by Clear Channel?

Ya think we'd be tuning into Kieth O. every night?

Saturday Night Live says some pretty unkind things, sometimes.

Are you saying that "free speech is for sale to the highest bidder"?

Of course his sponsors have a right to pull their ads. "It's their money." BTW, how much do you spend on advertising every year?

Of course an employer has a right to fire an employee. Worker's have no rights any more.

But that's not really what I was talking about, was it?

Who gets to decide what's "objectionable", and why?

[Fresh_Start]

9. yes his employer does

and you have the right not to rely on them for news or entertainment or anything else

No, I'm not saying free speech is for sale to the highest bidder.
You have free speech.

If you can self-publish, knock yourself out.
If you hire a performance hall, you can invite 500 to listen to you.
You can stand on a street and as long as your not creating a public nuisance, you can talk.

You can even blog on the internet.

Thats free speech.
The medium is not guaranteed

[Timbuk3]

12. My mistake

I should have asked you if "the media" is for sale to the highest bidder.

Apparently, it is.

Have you ever looked into Edward R. Murrow? Have you seen "Good Night, and Good Luck"?

Murrow's sponsors pulled out on him. His producer stood by him.

The first can happen today, but not the second.

I fail to see why I should celebrate that.

[Fresh_Start]

13. Imus is not Murrow, he's not even a Murrow wannabe

99% of what Imus does on the air is not a public service.

Really no comparison.
But why don't you and your buddies help buy Imus air time if you feel so strongly.
I'd guess that Imus could self-finance some time if he wanted to.

[Timbuk3]

14. Who said Imus is Murrow?

Not me. As a matter of fact, I said...I just don't want to be flamed for A) defending Don Imus or what he said, B) ignoring the effect of his words on the innocent victims, the young women who nearly won the national championship, C) "knee-jerk" reacting to "defend a liberal" (Imus is not a liberal, but it makes no difference, anyway, the media is calling him one), D) "insensitive" to racism, E) ignoring an ongoing pattern of "hate speech" by Imus, F) I don't acknowledge the advertiser's right to stop spending their money to advertise on his show or, G) I somehow "support" "hate radio."

What I want to know is, what are you going to do the next time some RW talking head declares every Muslim on the face of the earth is a terrorist?

Let me give you a little nudge, here. The folks that make a lot of money off the war machine? You know them? They aren't going to pull their ads off those shows.

How come we've had wall-to-wall coverage of Imus' transgressions, but Bill O'rally's rants about an alleged "illegal alien" killing two little girls in VA doesn't merit anything but a blog entry? Do you think O'rally using those little girls deaths to make a political point might bother their families, just a bit?

Would you shut O'rally up, if you could?

I apologize for not being able to exactly put my finger on what it is about this that bothers me. I'm sincere about not wanting to defend Imus. I could care less about him.

It's the effect on a media that's already overly controlled by "what's profitable", not to mention "who owns it", that's got me worried.

Who's next, and why?

[Fresh_Start]

15. Yes I think O'Reilly and Limbaugh shouldn't be able to

trash arabs, or women, or parkinsons victims either.

I won't watch their shows but if you or someone else is willing to watch and post their offenses and their sponsors. I'll write and complain and threaten to boycott. I did it for Coulter more than one time. I didn't wait for her Edwards faggot speech.

I've pretty much given up on commercial TV and radio already.
They haven't been talking to me for a decade or longer.
I support public broadcasting financially and with my viewing habits.
I read and read and read.
Todays news doesn't deserve the label news.

[Timbuk3]

17. Agreed

"Todays news doesn't deserve the label news."

The question is, do you give up, or do you want to fix it?

We're not going to "fix it" by kicking people off the air every time they become unprofitable for their corporate masters.

I was asking "who's next, and why?"

I think I've got the "why" part figured out.

The holy dollar is the "why" part.

"Who" has me a bit leery.

I've seen RW talking heads get away with hate and lies for years.

In all honesty, I can't see what a "lefty" would say that would get them kicked off the air. "Lefties" seem to stand against bigotry.

But then again, "lefties" don't generally support spending more than we have on our military.

I realize I'm getting off-topic, here, but until we do away with that "corporate personhood" we're not going to "fix" the media, or electoral politics.

Can it be true that Imus was fired, not because what he said was reprehensible, but because he would no longer be "profitable"?

It true, is that acceptable to you?

[Fresh_Start]

22. I'm not a consumer of TV news or radio news

I think we'd be better off if 99% of the TVs in the country went on the fritz forever.
As a society we'd be better off with a $100 laptop for every family in the country and in the world

TV is ruining our health and imagination and judgement
So no, I don't believe it needs to be fixed. I'm comfortable with its demise.
We'd all be better off if we weren't isolated as couch potatoes.

So I'm not necessarily inactive in the want to fix it discussion. I say NO. I say put it out of its misery.

I'd rather have a free speech discussion about Bong Hits for Jesus or the chocolate My Sweet Lord. Imus isn't worth it too me. I don't see his venom as art, I see it as poison.

I don't think we're adversaries. I think we have differences of opinion and different life experiences.

The Fairness Doctrine is a hot button for me as well. And I think the rise of international corporations is a national security matter all countries should be worried about.

[Fresh_Start]

16. The media is bought and paid for -

the end of the fairness doctrine, strangled it
the fox lawsuit where their news didn't have the responsibility to be factually correct, buried it
the industry consolidation, starved it
the public laziness in wanting entertainment instead of news about the world, cremated it

the alternative is literally before you, the internet and social networks and other peer-to-peer channels

[Timbuk3]

18. The fairness doctrine

Considering we started out disagreeing, it's amazing you brought up something I've been bitching about for years, now.

Good old Saint Ronnie and the end of the fairness doctrine has done more to kill this country than damned near anything I can think of.

We may not agree on this Imus thing, but if you see me in the future rest assured we're closer on this than you may realize.

[Atman]

4. I think it's a good rant

Something about this doesn't pass the smell test. I don't like Imus, I don't listen to/watch his show, with the exception of occasional snips when someone posts "turn on Imus!," which is pretty rare. But what did he do/say that was beyond what so many of "them" do or say on a daily basis?

Basically, I don't think Imus has a genuine fan base of hardcore supporters the way Stern or even Rush do. He's just another old curmudgeon with a schtick, and his schtick has been revealed -- he's a racist pig. But that was revealed years ago, as it was with Rush and Ann and the rest of their lot. But Imus said the wrong thing at the right time, when the Rovian media machine was looking for something else to distract from the horrors of yet another day with Bush still in power.

Imus, the martyr. Who'da thunk it?

.

[Timbuk3]

8. Thanks

I sure as hell wasn't defending Imus, or what he said.

I'm just asking, "who's next?"

Worse yet, I'm asking "who decides?"

[Neshanic]

5. PCism has to start somewhere, and the Imus incident was the catalyst.

It is now a new better place. You will be held accountable to what you say, watch, listen to and write.

It will be for your own good.

Happy thoughts...

[Timbuk3]

10. Exactly

We all need "someone else" "looking out for us."

Because we're all...

Oh, shit, I can't say that word. I might offend someone.

[DainBramaged]

11. It is not a better place

When the Reich-wing scumbags are called out by Sharpton-Jackson, I'll agree.

And why didn't they speak about the Duke fiasco until they were pressed, and still did not speak to it to any one's satisfaction?

[tyedyeto]

24. We shall see when Limpy, O'Lielly and their ilk...

start spewing hatred again.

What will happen? Probably nothing.

[Warren Stupidity]

6. Wow that was so original!

Except of course we have heard this same tired dirge of non-support support for Imus about 5,000 times.

He got fired. His free speech is still intact. No government local, state or federal has suppressed his vile utterances. Most of us here fully support IgnoreImus's right to say hideous awful things. He has no right to a radio show. His former sponsors had every right to decide to pull their advertising. His employers had every right to cut their losses.

[nam78_two]

19. Thanks -succinctly put

Thank God there is someone with enough patience left to explain in so few words that which should be obvious.

[Timbuk3]

20. I can't believe how short-sighted you two are!

"He has no right to a radio show?"

Says who? You and your like-minded buddy?

LOL

He lost his show because he wasn't profitable, any more. He said something stupid that no one...let me repeat that...NO ONE...is defending, and his "corporate people" sponsors pulled out on him. It affected the profitability of the parent stations.

You think you have any influence on the media?

You think this was some kind of "social justice"?

It got people talking. That's one good thing I can think of that's come out of this.

But that's about it.

Other than that, it just confirmed how easy it is to get someone to shut up.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. "Says who? You and your like-minded buddy?"

You think that there is a fundamental right to have a radio show? Have you lost your mind? Where is your radio show? Where is mine? How come I can't get on MSNBC every morning for my three hour slot?

I agree that he lost his show because his sponsors bailed. That is exactly what I said. Now of course that begs the question. Why did his sponsors bail? It could be a dark conspiracy to stifle the proud independent voice of Imus, or more likely it is because these folks sell products to a broad audience, and associating their products with vile racist humor was not good for business. Public pressure - the hubub and uproar - had a lot to do with the decision to pull the plug. The fact that this incident was not going away and was in fact gaining widespread attention forced sponsors to pay attention and take action.

[Timbuk3]

29. You think that there is a fundamental right to have a radio show?

Yes.

I've seen this argument more than once and it positively reeks of desperation.

Just because you lack the talent or motivation to get your own radio show doesn't mean you can't have one.

Have you ever seen "Wayne's World"? Ever heard of "public access"? Go on the radio. Build a following, if you can.

Don't be surprised when you don't, if you keep making weak arguments like this.

Imus became "weak" the second he apologized. He was "culled."

I've had some more time to think about this. I really was "on the fence" a couple of days ago, but as time goes by and I've listened to (supposedly) rational arguments, I've come to some conclusions.

Saying "I'm sorry" is cheap, and anyone who's raised a teenager knows "I'm sorry" can mean "I got busted, leave me alone." I don't care about "I'm sorry", I care about the sentiment behind it. Imus apologized to the players in private. We don't know what was said by either side, but they accepted his apology. The rest of us are "too righteous" to accept it.

Imus was truly repentent. He said "I'm willing to change the direction of my show", he was willing to take his show and use his 50,000 watt voice and do something good as a result of his infraction. Instead of giving him the chance to do that and possibly changing some minds he's been fired and taken off the air by the same corporations that supported the war he opposed, the same corporations that got rid of him not because they're "taking a stand" but because he would no longer be "profitable", which is the sole motivating force in any corporation that's ever existed. http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Protection-Corporate-Dominance-Rights/dp/product-description/1579546277

Let's all hold hands and sing "Kumbaya" as we celebrate the end of racism and misogyny in America. Now we can go back to loving each other the way we used to.

o/ Kumbaya, my Lord, why does my fucking foot hurt so much where I shot it, Kumbaya... o/

If I burned a few bridges by saying this, "so it goes." http://www.vonnegutweb.com/sh5/index.html

[mitchtv]

21. Imus is guilty

Of being an asshole. I never listened to him, and won't miss him. Apparently he dissed the wrong people this time. Sorry I can't contribute more. I just wish it had been Savage Weiner

[DainBramaged]

25. How can you know he's an asshole if you never listened to him?

Ask the thousands of children with cancer he helped over the last 10 years. And since when do words kill in a Democracy? Imus was killed by two biased black men who though they spoke for the Rutgers women. And why didn't the Rev Al apologize for the Tawana Brawley fiasco, and whey didn't he lose his "job'.

When you can speak from knowledge, speak the truth, not bullshit.

[mitchtv]

26. I heard what he said

it was a classic, assholish thing to say especially about some college kids, who did a good thing. The pope is an ssshole too and he has done some good things, I imagine .what i think is one does not cancel out the other,I have heard enough of him ro switch channels after the first sentence or so.Losing ones 10m job isn't a killer either. Sharpton is an independent operator, he doesn't work for NBC/CBS

[softwarevotingtrail]

27. Imus was against the war, NBC is owned by GE

GE is the biggest defense manufacturer in the world. There is way more than meets the eye here. Don't get played people.

[mitchtv]

28. He's the one playing the game

being against the war, doesn't buy him a free pass to be vile and insulting. We all have to work , and follow the rules. He said the wrong thing about the wrong people, at the wrong time. What makes him better than anyone else?. GE would gladly have kept him if they could've.The sponsors bailed.

[DainBramaged]

30. The saddest thing is apologies mean nothing now

So if the consequences mean you lose your job anyway, what's the point. PS, I understand his 5 year $10 mil annual contract is iron-clad, so they will be paying him for their stupidity too.