Honest question... how can one find out if they are on the Terrorist Watchlist (No-fly list)?

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

I have a vacation coming up soon and I keep having fears that i'm going to show up at the airport and end up being on some no-fly list. Not that I'm a suspicious person or anything... but you hear about all sort of people (most I'd bet) wrongly placed on these lists.

Edit: if I somehow find out I'm on such a list, what's the best way to get off (note: I'm not rich or famous).

[Statistical]

1. Simple answer. you can't..

Not ever, not under any circumstances if they govt has their way.

Even if the airline denies you boarding for 'no fly' and you get a lawyer and sue the govt will claim even you knowing if you are really on the 'no fly list' is a violation of national security.

The only successful lawsuit was an ACLU lawsuit where ACLU got release thousands of records of closed cased. Some had been closed as not a threat by the FBI your YEARS yet the names are still on the list.

The larger issue is false positive like what happened to Sen. Kennedy. His name closely matched a real name on the list and he was denied/delayed boarding 5 times before the FBI clarified the records.

[formercia]

2. Kafka as a model for domestic policy.

Oy!

[Statistical]

3. Here is a good FAQ by the ACLU.

It is slightly out of date (10/26/2005)

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/general/21164res20051026.html

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

4. Thanks Statistical. good info there (n/t)

[jody]

8. "The ACLU believes that the entire system of watch lists is unconstitutional" so will ACLU defend

someone who wishes to purchase a firearm and fails the NICS check because her/his name is erroneously on the No Fly List or Selectee List?

[Statistical]

9. doubtful but it would be interesting.

I think it is going to take a decade for the ACLU to come to grips with Heller and their bipolar stance on civil rights.

It will happen but it will take a very long time.

My hope is someday there will be no need for an NRA (at least as a lobbying, political organization) because the ACLU will fully support the 2nd in lawsuits, lobbying, and media exposure.

Hopefully they would have a wing totally devoted to firearm specific issues.

When I see ACLU not NRA file a lawsuit against city of Chicago on civil rights violations over illegal gun bans then I might rewnew my canceled membership.

[jody]

13. If the ACLU acknowledges Heller and defends a token case or two it would quickly defuse NRA's

political clout and gain respect from 84 million gun-owners and their extended families.

It would also mean ACLU takes seriously its claim "The ACLU is our nation's guardian of liberty, working daily in courts, legislatures and communities to defend and preserve the individual rights and liberties that the Constitution and laws of the United States guarantee everyone in this country."

[HopeHoops]

5. Easy - try to get on a plane.

They'll let you know.

[doc03]

6. My brother couldn't pass the background

check when he went to purchase a gun. He discovered that 8 months ago and filed the proper appeal forms with the FBI. He has called them a couple times and they tell him they will let him know the results when they finish their investigation. In other words don't call us we will call you when we damn well please.

[OneTenthofOnePercent]

7. If he knows he is not a felon... just buy the gun via private sale ;) (n/t)

[doc03]

10. I was told by a licensed firearms dealer that if you (know)

and he (knows) he can't pass the background check he is prohibited from purchasing a gun and you are prohibited to sell him a gun even by a private purchase. I was also told if I would purchase the gun for him and then sell it to him I would be guilty of a felony because I (know) he can't pass the background check. But if someone sold him a gun and didn't know about the background check the seller
couldn't be charged. I also heard if he possesses other weapons he purchased before failing the background check he better get rid of them for the time being, the FBI has been known to raid a persons house and charge you with illegal possession of firearms.

[jody]

12. Could the FBI raid the house of someone on the No Fly List searching for anything that could be used

to commit an act of terrorism?

That's really scary since there are no apparent guidelines on who has the authority under what guidelines to place people on the No Fly List and no real process for getting your name off the list.

[doc03]

15. I wouldn't be surprised we came damn close to

living in a police state under W now the right wing nit wits say Obama is going to take our freedoms away.

[pitohui]

17. they don't do this, see my other post, hubby is on it

he's been on it for several years now

they don't search your house, that would be silly, can you imagine them searching the house of everybody w. a common easy to pronounce last name that some bad guy has used as an alias?

you'd have MILLIONS literally MILLIONS of searched houses and apartments

they know it's silly, they don't even fucking bother

at some airports, they even laugh about it, because they see so many of these so-called false positives

they do seach YOU, hubby was upset that they searched even his wallet last time, even tho they acknowledged, hey we know you're not the david nelson/ed kennedy we're looking for but we're required to do this search anyway...

[Recursion]

14. A private seller is by statute prevented from using NICS

The best he could do is hire a private investigator. It's discouraging: both sides of the gun control debate would like for a private seller to be able to run a NICS check, but neither side seems willing to make the first step and propose it (if they NRA proposed it, Brady would say they are trying to "expand the gun-show loophole", since Brady really wants to ban private sales; if Brady proposed it, the NRA would say they are trying to make all sales go through a federally licensed dealer). There's not enough trust left for either side to even come to the table, even though at least in this case they both would like the same changes made.

[doc03]

11. I know a guy that is of Greek heritage

and he has been pulled aside and searched because he just looks middle eastern.

[pitohui]

16. you can't get off (hubby is on it), just leave time at the airport

if you have a common name, the odds are increasing by the day that you're on it

you get subjected to extra screening but you can, in fact, fly, once they determine you're not the "david nelson" or "carl lewis" they're actually looking for

all you can do is leave more time, esp. when returning from international trips back into the usa, that is always where hubby gets detained

there is no way to get off the list, there's a form you can fill out to complain that says, hey, i'm not THE evil doer david nelson, but the immigration guy will tell you himself, it doesn't do any good to send it in, they can't remove you from the list, it's just a form to fill out to make you feel like you're doing something

once you're on the list, all you can do is leave more time, esp. to re-enter the country

you can FLY, don't worry, they won't make you walk home from japan (or wherever you're going), it just takes longer

think of usa as the old soviet union and you'll have the right idea