Wife's fundie ex totally freaked the kids out yesterday

[Spike89]

Normally the guy is semi-stable and despite being a fundie, he's rational and has done a good job being a father to the kids (26 year old boy, 20 year old girl). Yesterday, seemingly out of the blue he had both of them come to his house for some emergency meeting. The boy has a new 4-month old daughter and among the things his Dad said was "If you have to, let her starve rather than let the government force you to give her a flu shot!" My step-daughter was terribly upset (well, so was her brother and his wife). Evidently the rant was long and scary and she got very confused about what he was saying. She told us that he mentioned the Mayan calendar, 9-11, the mark of the beast, freemasons and false flu. He even mentioned that Obama had set up concentration camps.

Anyone have any idea what or who set him off? He's a very frightened man and he's totally freaking everyone out, but we don't know where he's getting this very convoluted meta-conspiracy from. Anyone else hear anything about this? We can easily debunk any of the pieces, but it would help to find out if there was a source that was packaging all these ridiculous fear-fest concepts together.

[Nikki Stone1]

1. Does he listen to "Coast to Coast AM" at night?

It runs on AM stations overnight and covers all those topics.

http://www.coasttocoastam.com/

[Spike89]

10. No idea, but the kids say he doesn't

We asked if he'd been watching Glen Beck and maybe the crazy had rubbed off, or maybe he'd been stuck in the dark with talk radio, but they say he doesn't really listen or tune into any news/talk shows. He seems to get all his info from others at his church and possibly coworkers.

[Nikki Stone1]

28. Then it's possible that those churchgoers are listening to Beck or Coast to Coast

Paranoia and panic spread like wildfire in church circles, I've found.

Coast to Coast is the best bet, however, for all the subjects you named. Over the past month, they have discussed swine flu vaccinations as the government trying to kill people and reduce the population; the Mayan calendar (this is a popular topic on Coast to Coast); the mark of the beast and the Book of Revelation (another very popular topic, connected with the global economy on Coast to Coast); freemasonry and other conspiracy theories; I know that 9/11 conspiracy theories have been discussed on Coast to Coast in the past.

I really think that might be the source.

[Morning Dew]

55. Clearly, it's important to first vaccinate the family chupacabra.

If there's no ill effect, it's probably safe to vaccinate the very young and the elderly.

:)

[a la izquierda]

77. Thanks for my first laugh of the day...

pretty sad, considering it's 430pm.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. I have not done that in a while

fun to listen to it, for FICTION material, not shitting anybody here.

But you are probably right on your diagnosis. Coast to Coast should be treated as bad comedy at best... crap most likely. But boy it is good for the what ifs though.

[lies and propaganda]

39. i think Glen beck is more likely

Coast to Coast isnt malicious and not really at all for the fundie type. You need an open mind for CtC

[HopeHoops]

47. My mom does, but CTC is pretty tame compared to the hate and fear on FOX.

Sometimes they actually cover legitimate topics like RFID tagging. FOX on the other hand wouldn't know a legitimate topic if it fell through the roof of the studio wearing a pink tutu and singing old Sinatra songs.

[Xenotime]

49. Ha! More likely listens to Rush

[Javaman]

67. LOL that was my first thought as well!! LOL nt

[Lars39]

2. He needs a psych evaluation.

[Tanuki]

3. Seriously, I agree. This sounds like psychotic thought disorder.

Does your community have a mobile crisis team who could come evaluate him?

[TheDebbieDee]

18. Please........W cut funding for all those needed services

during his 8 years. People who may be coming unglued will just have to fall apart!

[Tanuki]

35. These services most certainly do still exist in many communities,

even here in Tennessee where I live and practice as a mental health professional. Please don't dismiss a suggestion that may actually be helpful to the poster or to others in similar situations.

[quiller4]

63. Although the services suffered federal funding cuts, they are still

available. Don't hesitate to look for help if you need it.

[Mojambo]

I agree

A sudden change like that is not normal.

[Dappleganger]

57. Most definitely!

He sounds paranoid and out of control and needs a complete mental health eval. Do you have anything like the Baker Act? We had to do this just a few weeks ago w/my father and it forced him to get the help he needs.

[HughMoran]

4. Too much Limbeck. Take two Olbermans and call me in the morning

This sort of shit is to be expected with the bile being spewed of late.

[Critters2]

5. If it were me, I'd tell him no contact with the grandchild

until he begins to act sane again.

[Vinca]

7. I second that. It sounds like he's going over the edge and

I wouldn't trust him not to do something to "save" the grandchild. Yike!

[aikoaiko]

6. If one on my parent or inlaws said something like that I would keep them at a distance

Remind your step-kids that they are adults and may need to take adult actions to keep themselves and their families safe from him.


He might be getting caught up in goobermint paranoia or it could be much worse (like a psychotic break). These things happen.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. He might have listened to this on Coast to Coast AM from Mon night

Swine Flu & Vaccinations

First hour guest, Dr. Len Horowitz commented on the Swine Flu, which a White House panel has warned could kill as many as 90, 000 Americans. He believes the greater danger stems from "toxic" vaccinations that will be foisted upon the public. For more, see his website FluScam.com.

[Critters2]

12. These idiots refusing to get vaccinated could be a real public health risk.

After the seasonal flu I had last year, which morphed into pneumonia, I'm getting vaccinated. Anyone who doesn't is a damn fool. And a damn fool with a contagious disease is a dangerous damn fool.

[Spike89]

15. I agree. This ticks me off

I'm going to have to check out coast to coast, sounds like at least part of what set him off came from there. I really have little to do other than help my wife frame counter information and calmly discuss this with the kids. Like I said, he's been a decent man and I've never allowed myself to get between him and his kids. They are adults, yet, I hate that they're possibly being scared into putting that baby at risk by not getting vaccinated.

[Kalyke]

51. Uhhh... I'm not a damn fool and I never get the vaccination.

Of course, I never get the flu or colds.

Some people really are immune to them. There is a name for it, but it escapes me now (hey - I said I don't get colds, not that I have a great memory. :) )

[Hansel]

58. I was one of those who never got the flu

and then I did in my 40s and nearly died of pneumonia. Spent some time in ICU being pumped full on every antibiotic and immunity enriching vitamins they could get their hands on.

If you never have had the flu, you have no immunity when you do. Of course my immune system was also weakened to due predisone treatment. Regardless, I still the flu, something I thought I was immune to.

[Spike89]

75. Yup, it's an immune system, not immune device

I always find it somewhat amusing when people claim immunity and assume that what once might have been will forever be so. Our immune systems are in a constant state of flex and under varying levels of stress. It's really simple, you don't catch a cold from standing in the cold, the rain, etc., you actually stress your immune system doing those things, giving the cold virus that was attacking you the upper hand. Maybe you got a couple too few hours of sleep, maybe you ate something you're mildly allergic too, or maybe two things that you could easily shrug off individually hit you at once.

We're pretty complicated organisms, and there are a lot of things out there that can hurt us.

[PatGund]

83. Something I'm seeing in Birtherland.....

...is the idea that the Government is going to "tag" those who have been vaccinated, and place into camps those that refuse. All in the name of "public safety" of course.

Birther dentist/lawyer Orly Taitz has been known to go off on the supposed FEMA camps Obama and his minions are setting up just for this purpose.

[Selatius]

9. The man's mechanism to discern truth from bullshit is broken. I'm afraid he needs a new brain. nt

[The River]

11. These People Are Like Zits

Full of puss and ready to pop at the slightest pressure.

[dhpgetsit]

13. If you believe the fearmongers' lies you will eventually snap from the fear.

Sad

[ensho]

14. well there are many doubts about the flu shots

and articles telling of bad affects of the shots on children

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

16. You have to check this out - a DUer's Dad seemed to have just died as a result of a flu shot...

he told her it was for swine flu. Read all of her responses after this initial post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=6318823#6318838

[rox63]

23. There was no swine flu shot in May of this year

Maybe they are referring to a regular flu shot? The swine flu vaccine has not yet been released, it's still being tested.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

30. I realize that but this is what he told his daughter. Perhaps he thought it was...but what he did

pass from is a rare side effect to the flu vaccine. Please read down that part of the thread.

What gets me is that she said he was career navy and totally anal when it came to things and told her several times it was a swine flu vaccine.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

33. Pff.

:rofl:

[nadinbrzezinski]

87. It is a RARE SIDE EFFECT OF VACCINES PERIOD

it was not Hinnie flu... they were not even in the early stages of development in May

[Spike89]

42. Sad, but not likely the swine flu shot

They simply weren't giving the swine flu shot before they developed it. They may and probably did give him a flu shot "for the swine flu" which wouldn't really help, but would lead him to believe it was a swine flu shot (subtle, but real difference). I read the entire article that OP was based on and it was really some biased fear-mongering journalism. There is even serious doubt about whether the 1976 GBS event really was as the result of the vaccine. There have been no corresponding links to any flu vaccine since then. What also isn't mentioned is that GBS ALWAYS spikes during and following a flu outbreak. We do know for a fact that having a virus is a trigger. A poorly done vaccine more than 30 years ago MAY have also triggered GBS (again, it affects about 1 in 80,000-100,000 people).
Of course doctors are being told to look for and report any instances of GBS. That doesn't mean there will be a host of them. All the data suggests otherwise. Sadly, because scientists are cautious it is easy to use that caution as a reason to freakout.

[Spike89]

17. Really?

All I've seen are really poorly done scare tactics about past efforts and anecdotal stories. Do you have anything with real statistics about the current vaccine?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. No, not really.

That person's an anti-vaccine loon.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

25. Really. Read the the thread. The person who lost her father has been

a beloved member of DU for years. She told us all about her having to go to when they took him off of life support before he was and that she need all of our support. Don't be a cynic and do your homework. What he died of is a very rare side effect to the flu vaccine.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

29. Lulz. Yeah, right.

The person believes any anti-science bullshit that comes along. Anti-vaccine shit or otherwise.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

31. It is obvious that you are willfully ignoring reading what she

wrote. Continue to show your ignorance about her.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. I was thinking the same about you.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

34. Click.

[TheWatcher]

84. Impossible.

I've never seen you post anything that indicates you can think.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

88. And your stance on the anti-vaccine issue would be....

:shrug:

[Binka]

66. WTF are you talking about?

I have NEVER been anti-science or anti-vaccine. All of my 4 children have ALWAYS been vaccinated. There isn't one thing I have EVER posted on DU that could be construed as AS or AV. You are full of shit dude. Really what THE FUCK are you talking about?

Welcome to ignore you are too weird.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. Ooo, a sockpuppet unmasking.

Are you going to put me on ignore on all your accounts?

[Hekate]

70. self delete--wrong place

[lildreamer316]

79. Pot, meet kettle. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

80. So I guess the answer is: no?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

26. The current vaccine was just tested on some adults and published so far no side effects.

They were then going to test it on kids (love little kids as guinea pigs) but I haven't seen those results yet.

[liberal N proud]

20. FOX

[laughingliberal]

21. My First Thought...

Alex Jones listener

[Spike89]

62. Wife discovered Alex Jones connection

Turns out her ex's sister recently "discovered" Alex Jones. Our best guess is that she (the former SIL) took basically every odd and paranoid theory that asshat offers (and if it's wacky, he seems to have it). She freaks out, freaks out her brother and then he delivers it to the kids who immediately call their Mom. I hear it probably 4th hand and it still matches very closely the crazy crap on Alex Jones' website...incredible!

[Statistical]

22. The rambling connection of unrelated "facts" makes me think mental disorder.

Even fundies tend to keep the conspiracy theories "coherent" (I know a stretch of the word).

The point is if he was ranting about the flue OR ranting about concentration camps OR ranting about biblical stuff I would chalk it up to a good ole conspiracy nut and/or fundie.


However throwing all the unrelated junk together. I mean if the "death flu" kills his daughter then what does it matter than Obama "has" concentration camps. Why would Christians worried about the mark of the beast give any credence to the "pagan" Mayan calender.

I am thinking some sort of mental disorder. He needs professional mental health care. At the very minimum an evaluation.

[lpbk2713]

24. They need to start keeping notes.

Sounds like they may need to Baker Act him before too much more time goes by. Seriously.

[gopiscrap]

27. It's fucking Faux News again

they disseminate this shit because their low intellenge listeners buy into it and therefore they can sell sponsorship ads!

[gratuitous]

36. What set him off? No idea

But write it down. Everything you or the steps can remember. As many details as possible. Present it to fundy stepfather for his review and signature. Make any changes he deems appropriate, but get him to sign it, and if possible his best estimate as to when each and every one of these dire predictions is going to occur (next 30 days, next six months, next 10 years, whatever). And then check back with him every other month or so to see how his predictions are coming along.

You're right: He's a very frightened man and very far out on a sea of paranoia. You can help reel him back to reality.

[TlalocW]

37. As a guy who has a degree in Spanish

And enjoyed studying their mythology, I'm shocked at how the whole Mayan calendar thing is catching on with the crazies - basically, they had 5 "worlds," each one destroyed by something, and this, the fifth world, is coming to an end on December 22, 2012. I thought it was too esoteric. Guess I was wrong - pranksters are creating crop circles showing what the solar system will look like on that day, there's a disaster movie about it coming out, there's a popular web comic whose plot centers around it (and they sell t-shirts with the Aztec - not Mayan - sunstone and the words 2012 - Another Y2K Bug on it), etc.

TlalocW

[Caliman73]

64. We have some information about he Maya and Mexica cultures

The problem is that so many of the codices were destroyed by the Spanish that an accurate idea of what the Maya and Mexica time keeping and astronomical observations as well as their mythology is difficult. We have good guesses, but it would be like another life form coming to earth and trying to piece the history of the US together from snippets of the Declaration of Independence Article 1 of the Constitution and some reruns of Happy Days.

[EOTE]

38. You're trying to debunk information on the mark of the beast and mayan conspiracy theories?

I think you might be wasting your time there. Let's have a sample conversation.

Me: Did you know that Obama bears the mark of the beast?

You: That's not true, and you have no evidence to back that up.

Me: I have my own evidence. I was not but 2 feet away from the antichrist Obama and I saw the 666 on his neck!

You: You don't really expect me to believe that, do you?

Me; You're one of them! Achtung! Verboten! *starts speaking wildly in tongues*.



You can't reason with crazy people.

[havocmom]

43. "You can't reason with crazy people."

Fact

[EC]

40. Glenn Beck

The camps were built by Haliburton under W's reign. And of course they are using the flu to scare because it will happen, so using something imminant to scare is a win-win for them...just enough to be believed....OOOOOOOOO this scary black man is going to kill and imprison us all bullshit. OOOOOO:sarcasm:

[bullwinkle428]

41. Ask him if the surgeon left a sponge in his brain!

[dysfunctional press]

44. why don't you ask HIM where he's getting his info from...?

probably a better bet than asking a bunch of strangers who don't even know him...:shrug:

[ladywnch]

45. has anyone else seen the commercials for IHC - the Institute for Human Continuity?

Well, unless you're paying close attention and see the "this movie not yet rated" tag at the very bottom of the last 2 seconds of the commercial you would think this is real. They have a website and NO WHERE does it indicate this is a movie website except for one tiny reference to Sony Pictures down at the bottom of the page in 4 point type with the copywrite info.

It talks about 2012 as being the end of civilization due to massive solar activity that will lead to the destruction of life on this planet and that there is a LOTTERY that will determine who is allowed to live in the special bunkers or something. There's even a counter telling you how many people have registered for the lottery!

At first I thought it was some rapture movie crap, but it is worse than that.

With the extreme paranoia and the extreme stupidity of 28%-30% of the population I could seem them latching on to this as real and running amok with it.

Given the state of the country at this point in time I found this whole campaign very irresponsible.

Maybe he's seen the commercials and ran with it.

[Spike89]

74. Yeah, actually saw that last night

The commercial came on awhile after we were discussing him and we both laughed at the suggestion that he might have thought it was real. But you're right, it did strive to be "realistic" rather than obviously a trailer. Maybe he'd been reading a bunch of crap, then saw the commercial and it sent him over the edge.

[Spike89]

46. Thanks Everyone

I'll let my wife and the kids know to keep an eye on him for further aberrent behavior. Even though I was aware on one level that all this fear-porn existed, it wasn't until I checked into some of the leads this thread gave me that it really hit home! Alex Jones site alone is packed with the crazy and just might have been where his disjointed "theory" germinated.

Geez, I feel dirty and scared, not of the "prophesies" but of what they are doing to people.

[ladywnch]

78. I like the term you use, "fear porn".... that pretty well describes all this crap. n/t

[Xenotime]

48. It's what goes through each freeper's head

That's why they are so confused.

[Howler]

50. The Mayan calender thing

May be based on the" Harmonic conversion" supposedly due to happen on Dec 21 or 22 in 2012.But thats an evolutionary thing not an "End time" Apocalypse scenario.

Maybe he is having a nervous breakdown or something like that.

[ddeclue]

52. tinfoil's too tight?

:shrug:

[Lex]

53. Blocking the pychotic Faux News from his cable might help. They set off a lot of people

who are boderline stable in the first place.

[fascisthunter]

54. um... he needs to see a really good psychologist

and he probably needs meds for either bipolar or schizophrenia. There is nothing funny or meant as funny in my statement. I hope all goes well.

[20score]

56. The extreme RW meme that's going around has people thinking that

mass evacuation buses are going to take people to FEMA concentration camps while the government simultaneously kills people with flu vaccinations.
It's supposed to happen this fall.

[20score]

61. The fact that there was an International Swine Flu Conference has something to do with the rumors.

[Dr Fate]

59. People should realize that Jack Chick Tracts are just fun little comic books, nothing more.

http://www.chick.com/default.asp

[and-justice-for-all]

60. What a delusional dip shit...nt

[Edweird]

65. The election broke their brains.

[G_j]

68. why not ask him?

in a friendly way

[Spike89]

73. I might, but it would be pretty contrived

This is my wife's ex, and despite the facts, he blamed me for the end of their marriage. Over the years (I've been married to her 14 years) the tension has almost disappeared, but that is mostly from simply being civil at events like graduations, weddings, etc. where we basically acknowledge each other and that is it.

On the one hand, it is gratifying to see that both kids came immediately to their mother for her take. If he doesn't calm down over the next few days and keeps trying to scare the kids, I might have to get directly involved, but for now, it's probably less confrontational if the wife handles any conversations with him.

[snooper2]

71. Next time let him know I almost got the voice services at the camp working

outbound calls from the gaurd shack are okay but we are having one way audio with inbound calling from PSTN...


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[SpiralHawk]

72. "The fundie dude forgot the Curse of the evil-doing Skull & Boners

[holiday]

76. still can't find the source but read this youtube video

comments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ci0j6iYxIM4

it seems to me, some rapture types think it's the end of time.

[Doremus]

81. I would say possibly a brain tumor or perhaps latent paranoid schizophrenia.

I'd urge him to go in for a checkup. Good luck.

[polmaven]

82. There is some web site out there,

being promoted at freeperland, that is claiming that Massachusetts has just passed a law making it illegal to refuse a H2N1 vaccination. I guess there is a $1,000 per day fine for refusing! I don't really remember the name of the site, but it is something like "BirdFlu.com" It's page has big birds flying around.

Of course, if MA really has passed that law, it is really amazing - since they are not in session, and will not be until after Labor Day.

[Spike89]

86. Late summer melt downs

I'm not sure if it is just August or if the crazy is really escalating. I've learned since the OP that his sister recently discovered Alex Jones. My guess is that she threw enough of weird paranoid theories from Jones at the guy and he got scared and thought to warn the kids.

We'll be keeping an eye out and have already asked the kids to let us know if he keeps it up. He's generally a good guy, and I really hope this was just a case of a freakout. Having a source actually makes me feel better...if he was concocting these crazy mashed up theories on his own, I'd really suspect possible medical problems.