Where are the "christian" churches on health care?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

If they are so "christian", how does their faith's beliefs translate into doing their god's works?
And if they are christian, how come they aren't out there supporting health care reform?

[RagAss]

1. With Judas.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

2. brilliant. and true.

[Recursion]

35. Err.. careful. Judas first got in trouble trying to help the poor

He got angry at Mary M. for using expensive oil to wash Jesus's feet, when it could have been sold and given to the poor.

[geek_sabre]

57. Judas did not care for the poor. nt

[Recursion]

58. The "because he was a thief" bit is a later gloss

At least my NIV says that.

[WI_DEM]

38. hogwash, many churches were at the forefront of civil rights and I belong

to a church where the pastor gave a very impassioned plea on helping make health care a priority for Christians.

[baldguy]

3. The real ones are for it; the phoney ones are against it.

[redqueen]

5. I hope the real ones are preaching to their flocks about it...

and encouraging them to take action.

I'm pretty sure the phony ones are doing it, as they have for years about other issues.

[stray cat]

4. Open your eyes and you will see that there are christian groups supporting health reform

look up sojourners to start....However, many churches have offered free counseling and other help for years.

[Ocracoker16]

7. Here is a link to the Sojourner's page on health care reform

http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=action.display&item=HC09-main

There are many other faith groups that are also involved with Obama's campaign for healthcare reform. Many individuals representing these groups participated in a conference call last week. This movement has been getting attention from the national media.

[wryter2000]

20. The Episcopalians

The Episcopalians came out for single payer in their recent convention.

[auntsue]

6. In Pasadena CA

at All Saint's Episcopal - every Sunday at the "Action Table" we are asked to participate in various letter writing efforts to various elected officials, including the President. It is a part of out Baptismal promise to "work for justice" Our Pastor ED Bacon quotes Dr ML King "where there is some one who is ill I am not well, where there is some one hungry I am not fed" So we take the Christ-like attitude seriously at our church.

[mrobnoxious1]

8. give a man a fish

and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will feed a village.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. It takes a village to eat a fish.

[gatorboy]

33. Only if your village consists of The Littles.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

42. LOL. Although I am heartened to see the responses here.

The next, obvious question is,
WHY IS OUR MSM ignoring the obvious effort for religious groups to support health care reform?

[wryter2000]

51. Why does the MSM do anything?

1) they get all excited about anything flashy. Standing up in a church and saying patently anti-Christian things is flashy. Sermon on the mount = dull. X group will burn in hell = prime time material.

2) some time ago, they got the idea that "balance" was the best way to report. So, if they have a rational, compassionate view on one side, they have to find a lunatic and/or greedhead view for "balance." It's part of their overall laziness. Instead of seeking out the facts, (remember them Couric?) they present both "sides" as if they were equally worthy of consideration.

3) they're actually more the corporate media than the mainstream media.

But, I honestly think #1 is the biggest problem.

[Mariana]

18. What happens to the villagers who can't afford to buy his fish?

Do they starve?

[Island Blue]

19. Did Jesus teach the multitudes to fish,

or did he turn 2 fish into many and feed the people?

I don't believe any of it btw, but I do know how the story goes and I don't believe it says anything about him running a fishing school

[liberalhistorian]

22. Can you teach a man to give himself and

his family his and their own medical care?

[Bill McBlueState]

27. I don't think that's in the Christian scriptures.

Is it?

[guitar man]

29. no, no, no

you have it all wrong. It's "give a man a fish and he will eat for a day, teach a man to fish and he will sit in a boat all weekend drinking beer"

:D

<edit typo>

[piratefish08]

32. Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Give a man religion and he will

starve to death praying for a fish.

[SteelPenguin]

44. Give a man healthcare and he'll be healthy for a day

Teach a man to provide himself his own healthcare, and....wait, that won't work.

Ok how bout this...

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and then have him have to give half his fish to the health insurance industry on a daily basis, having to choose between healthcare or fish for his family, frequently choose fish, as he feels that eating is also good for his children's health...

hmm....Ok how bout this...

Give a man a fish, and he will eat for a day. Teach a man to group with all his fellow men, and negotiate together with the health care provider, so that each man, healthy or not, only has to give up a small amount of his fish on a daily basis, so that when he or his family gets sick he won't have to fish day and night to give all his fish to the hospitals because he's bankrupted by illnesses, losing his fishing pole and house, and being forced to beg the government for fish for that day.

Yeah I like that one better.

[Generic Other]

47. So I read how to do heart surgery

Let me work on yours. I might not do as well as a real professional, but hey what do you care? I am cheaper and you can keep your overpriced private insurance.

[wryter2000]

52. Hey, I hope you live in my neighborhood

Because that's where Senator Coburn says I'm supposed to be looking for help...from my neighbors. On the other hand, I probably should move next door to an orthopedic surgeon because my back is pretty bad.

[Generic Other]

54. I'll get a BOOK at the library with how-to instructions

How hard can it be? And if I cripple you, there's always Bennie Hinn.

[wryter2000]

56. Just stay at a Holiday Inn the night before nt/

n/t

[AspenRose]

9. .

http://www.umc.org/site/apps/nlnet/content3.aspx?c=lwL4KnN1LtH&b=2429869&ct=7179907

(And this was in July)


"United Methodists joined with leaders of other faith groups in appealing to U.S. lawmakers to make health care affordable to millions of uninsured Americans.

Nearly **30** top leaders of CHRISTIAN, JEWISH AND ISLAMIC organizations gathered July 7 in the U.S. Capitol for a day of dialogue and planning on health care reform. They also heard from congressional leaders, including House Speaker Nancy Pelosi."

(Are you still concerned about separation of church and state? If so, why do you care where the Christians (or anyone else of faith) are on health care reform?)

[ParkieDem]

16. The pastor of my Methodist church

charged the congregation to get involved in this issue a couple of weeks ago. She avoided outright political advocacy, but she said we Christians can't sit on the sidelines on this one.

[AspenRose]

24. Truthfully, the answer to this thread could have been found on Google

...but it's more fun to start a thread to play kick the Christian and talk about how Christians are such hypocrites.

Do people honestly think any activity that is pro-healthcare reform is going to get airtime or print space in the M$M, even if it's sponsored by a religious group? If people REALLY want to see stories about the faithful supporting healthcare reform, it'll likely be buried in the religion section of the newspaper. The front page and prime M$M airtime are reserved for the fundamentalist crazies, because it serves a purpose.

What I find hypocritical is how some go into apoplexy anytime someone of faith is involved with this administration....only to turn around and ask "where are the Christians on (hot political issue du jour)?" And you know they're gunning for Christians, because they never mention any other faith (Islam, etc.).

Just like blue dogs can obstruct democratic objectives and still call themselves democrats, conservative fundy-esque Christians can obstruct issues fundamental to the faith and still call themselves Christians. The problem with broad-brushing lies in ignoring the activities of progressive Christians in order to justify taking out hostility on all Christians.


Some here STILL haven't figured out that liberal Christians, and specifically the Christians here at DU, are on THEIR side. And some don't care.

[gatorboy]

26. +1000

[gratuitous]

31. Got it in one

And I notice there's no response from the Chairman. Sure makes this thread look like flame bait, doesn't it?

[Dr. Strange]

34. Yep.

[wryter2000]

53. He's here

I imagine he was a bit surprised by the responses, but he's listening.

[gratuitous]

55. I'll take your word for it

The Chairman was quick enough on the "post" button when someone supported his bigotry; he seems a little tardy when it's shown for what it is. But if you say he's listening, I'll take your word for it. Whether that translates into a slightly more expansive world view remains to be seen.

[piratefish08]

50. "Not sitting on the sidelines" = Doing something = Advocacy n/t

[tocqueville]

11. whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me

“For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

“Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'” Matthew 25:35-40 NIV


bite into that, fundies

you are not only insulting Jesus, but God

you shall burn in hell

[Bluerthanblue]

12. who says that they aren't?

?

To turn your sarcasm back around on you, if you are SO disturbed by the way the line between church and state is crossed, why would you demand that the churches involve themselves with government?

the knife cuts both ways-

If you really are interested there is info available-

[Bluerthanblue]

14. here is

a link to my favorite:

http://www.ucc.org/health-care-reform/

[Posteritatis]

13. They're all over the place, not being a straw man monolith and all. (nt)

[babylonsister]

15. Here's some of them...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6254392

Religious Health Care Supporters Launching Campaign

[Critters2]

17. Here: http://faithforhealth.org/ nt

[MellowDem]

21. I don't know...

but I know of a couple of likely armchair agnostics that are fully against it. Just listen to your radio. I guess you should whip them into line before I have to put parentheses around "agnostics" every time I mention them.

[liberalhistorian]

23. "He who oppresses the poor shows contempt for their

Maker but whoever is kind to the needy honors God." Proverbs 14:31

There are many, many, many, MANY other such verses in both the Old and the New Testament that not just advise but practically demand that we serve and assist the poor, the needy, the less fortunate and pretty much anyone else in need. Over and over and over again, it's a prime theme everywhere in the Bible. Somehow, I don't think Jesus would be too keen on putting profit before people's health and lives, and determining the moral worth of a person's right to health and life based on the status of his or her wallet. Yet, too many RW "Christians" seem to conveniently forget that. They zero in on the "he who does not work shall not eat" and that particular theme instead. When what those verses, in both the Old and New Testament, are referring to are people who are ABLE to work but who refuse to do so, and not those who cannot work or cannot do for themselves or their families, for a myriad of reasons.

Please believe that many of my fellow Christians agree with you and are totally disgusted at and frustrated with the lack of action by too many churches nowadays.

[AspenRose]

25. That is a good verse

I bet if you put "Proverbs 14 : 31" on a sign and held it up in protest at a health care rally, the conservative fundy anti-health care people wouldn't even know what the verse said.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

43. why is that bit erased from the Pro-Greed Megachurches' bibles?

Thinking Rev. Dollar (what a name) and too many others.

[melm00se]

28. US Catholic Council of Bishops

states:

"Genuine health care reform that protects the life and dignity of all is a moral imperative and a vital national obligation"

- Bishop William F. Murphy



The US Catholic Church also puts it's money where it's mouth is:

The Catholic Church is one of the largest health care providers in the United States. It's therefore a credible voice and a significant player in the debate surrounding health care reform and the many Americans who will be affected by it . Here's a snapshot of the size and scope in one year of Catholic health care in the U.S.

* More than 16.9 million emergency room visits
* More than 92.7 million outpatient visits
* 5,542,314 Admissions

2009 Statistics

Catholic Hospitals 624

Catholic hospitals in systems 548

Catholic health systems 60

Single-sponsor hospitals 441

Multi-sponsor system hospitals 183

Sponsor congregations of men 6

Sponsor congregations of women 144

Dioceses serving as sponsors 36

Other sponsor models 13

Lay administrators/CEOs 611

Religious administrators/CEOs 13

[redqueen]

37. Impressive.

Thanks for the information.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

45. thanks for this. But where is the MSM on this?

this should be HUGH news. Instead, all we see is Grassley, Town Hall Meetings with armed morans, and McCain.

[gatorboy]

46. For the same reason people enjoy watching car chases.

There's a certain entertainment factor with these yahoos. And the MSM would rather be exploitive than informative.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

48. Yep, that has to be it.

[piratefish08]

49. And what of the 22 million folks in Africa infected with HIV/AIDS ?

Not only won't the church advocate safe-sex, the Pope has flat out stated that condoms would make the AIDS epidemic WORSE!:

"The problem cannot be overcome by distributing condoms. It only increases the problem," the pontiff told reporters on board the plane headed for Africa.
http://www.undispatch.com/node/7865

They can advocate and provide all the healthcare they want in the US - but as long as the Catholic church is actively CONTRIBUTING to a worldwide epidemic, any position they take on Healthcare is pure hypocrisy.

Not to mention the "Healthcare for all unless you plan to use it for an abortion" stance.

I know I'm in the minority, but churches should not be advocating a position. Period.

There were endless threads last week complaining about churches taking a position against Healthcare and the general DU response was "TAKE THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS AWAY!!" How is a church advocating for Healthcare any different?

[Motown_Johnny]

30. self delete

[Recursion]

36. "Sojourners" is a good place to start

They've been the largest evangelical voice for peace and the poor for a while.

http://www.sojo.net/

Catholics have been on board for decades, too, as far as health care goes.

[piratefish08]

39. Unless your healthcare is being used get an abortion.

:shrug:

[Recursion]

40. Let's concentrate on where we agree with them, OK?

[Soylent Brice]

41. been asking the same thing of those around me lately.