"But Canada has a conservative government....They've rejected the liberal ideas."

[marmar]

A Wingnut called in with that gem on CSPAN WJ this morning.


from the Toronto Star:

OTTAWA – Conservatives and Liberals might want to think twice before plunging the country into another fall election, a new poll suggests.

The Canadian Press Harris-Decima survey indicates the two main federal parties remain locked in a dead heat, neither within range of winning a majority.

According to the poll, the parties were in a statistical tie, with 32 per cent support for the Liberals and 31 per cent for the Tories.

The NDP were at 16 per cent, the Greens at 11, and the Bloc Quebecois at nine. ......(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/685820

So if you add up the percentages for the three left-of-center parties (I'm excluding the Bloc Quebecois because as a casual border-state neighbor observer of Canadian politics I don't have a read on that party).....the Left is polling at nearly 60 percent of the vote, vs 31 percent for the right.


:think:

[HeresyLives]

1. Yes, the left-of-center parties

far outweigh the conservatives in the country's affections. However the vote split on the 'left' means the conservatives win, even though at best they only appeal to 30% of the country.

Really annoying.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

3. But presumably, if the Conservatives tried anything nasty

the left parties would have the votes to block them, yes?

[HeresyLives]

8. That would bring down the govt,

and mean an election. We've had several elections recently, and since the country is split, we get another minority govt.

Conservatives get their money, and they have a lot of it, from big oil and religion. The rest have to rely on small donations.

It takes an enormous amount of money to run a campaign here, and the west is solidly conservative with very few breakthroughs. But you have to campaign everywhere anyway, or it looks like you're trying to deliberately divide the country.

[Monk06]

6. To the best of my knowledge the Block are not LW they are a Quebec version of the Tories

[HeresyLives]

9. No, they are left.

The problem is they want to separate from Canada.

And they only run in one province, Quebec.

[Monk06]

17. Well I don't think there is anything particularily left wing about the Block or Parti Quebecois

The welfare rates for single men in Quebec are the
lowest in the nation and they are undermining
universal healthcare in Canada by moving to a two
tier system in Quebec.

Not very left wing to my mind

[Clintonista2]

21. I suggest you inform yourself before posting

Start by learning the difference between the Bloc and the Quebec judicial system, as they are two separate things yet you seem to think of them as one.

[Monk06]

23. Mind your mouth until you know the difference between the separatist Bloc Quebecois

which is a Federal Party and a creature of Lucien
Bouchard and Parti Quebecois which was founded by
René Lévesque's sovereignty associonist Mouvement
Souveraineté-Association and more radical separatist
factions.

Also Lucien Bouchard was a Torie before he joined Bloc

"The Bloc Québécois was started in 1991 as an informal coalition of
Progressive Conservative and Liberal Members of Parliament from Quebec,"

That quote is from Wiki which is the first place you should
have gone before shooting off like a smart ass

[Clintonista2]

26. What are you talking about? You made the claim that the bloc/PQ were responsible for

two tier healthcare. That is false. Will you apologize for getting your facts wrong?

[Monk06]

24. And another thing the Bloc and the Parti Quebecois are political parties NOT JUDUCIAL SYSTEMS !!!

[Clintonista2]

25. I'm glad you took my advice and looked up what the difference is

As you claimed the Bloc pushed through a two tier health system in Quebec, when it was actually the court system that ushered that in.

[Monk06]

27. Show me the source for your claim the 'court system' ushered in

two tier health care in Quebec. Since you brought
it up. My only claim is that Bloc is not a left
wing party which it isn't.

BTW it was I who suggested you look up Wiki Then
you try to turn that in your favour like
some high school student in a debating class.

That's a rather juvenile and transparent way
to score points

I'm not interested in a flame war. Mind your
manners are I will not reply to you again.

[upi402]

2. A lot like here... if the media would just STFU

and let truth ring out for a moment.

[Hawkeye-X]

4. Wingnut needs to read up on Canada's politics.

Minority coalition government that's already fragile

[Jennicut]

5. Its a parliamentary system. Precisely why I am not so sure other parties are our answer

here to crappy Democrats.

[HeresyLives]

11. I think it's because yours are so polarized.

However your parties compare to Canada, the Repub party is considered 'right', and the Dems 'left'. You have no party of the center, that can take good ideas from both of the others, and drop the junk.

In Canada, the NDP is 'left', and the Conservatives, 'right'. The Liberal party is considered center, or in the middle, which is why it's been so successful over the years. They can veer either way depending on the era, and mix and match ideas.

Of course they can screw up too, and they've done so recently, but overall they've been govt most often.

[mustardman]

14. Not really

There is nothing even close to the reich wing crazies in the US. All 3 Canadian parties are left of center by US standards. Who is further left/right whatever varies from election to election as new blood comes in and leadership changes. Not nearly as polarized as in the US.

Canada is a very big country though so there are regional differences. The west is quite liberal, the central prairies are somewhat conservative and the East is kinda in the middle. So basically the politicans of all 3 parties vary according to the region.

[Selatius]

15. I don't think you fully understand what Republicans are. They are extreme right, not just right wing

The Democratic Party has, as a result, become an informal grand coalition of center-rightists as well as liberals who all have a "D" behind their name because the Republican Party has shifted so far to the right on economic issues and social issues.

This grand coalition is difficult to govern at best, and it is dysfunctional at worst.

It is a choice between a centrist or center-right party (the Democrats) and the far right (the Republicans).

In Canada, the NDP is an actual left wing party. The US lacks such a party of that magnitude on the left, but that's because the US uses SMDP as a representative system. That is, each district is represented by one person, and that person is elected if he can win a plurality, NOT a majority, of the votes in his district. Mathematically, this tends to favor only two parties becoming dominant, except of course if there are strong regional parties, which the US does not possess.

The result is a two-party oligarchy in the US.

[Jennicut]

16. The Dems are basically the moderates and the liberals

I think the moderates abandoned ship from the Rethugs a long time ago.

[Selatius]

18. You summed it up perfectly, but some of these "moderates" are also blocking health care reform.

As a result, I would disagree with the moniker that they are "moderate." Center-right or even right would better describe many of these Democrats in office who are blocking up the process. If they wanted far rightists' help in sinking health care reform and giving Obama a massive defeat, then they only need to reach across the aisle to their Republican colleagues.

It's a foregone conclusion that they are going to vote against any reform bill, no matter what it contains. In the universal political spectrum, that would squarely place the Republicans on the far right on economic issues.

I firmly believe Blue Dog Democrats, when mapped out on a political spectrum encompassing all economic viewpoints found in humanity, are not much improved from Republicans. They both lean pretty far rightward on economic issues.

[Jennicut]

19. True. These "moderates" jumped to the Dems when the Rethugs wanted

purity. And they are giving liberals a hard time now.

[Doctor_J]

7. Any "conservative" party elsewhere in the world is far to the left of US Dems

The Dems would be to the right of any major party in any other country but this one, except maybe Israel. No other conservative party would think of torturing prisoners, executing prisoners, spending 1/2 the nation's budget on military things, encouraging citizens to take assault rifles to discussion groups, or disbanding national health care

[mustardman]

10. Your about right

As a Canadian who has lived in the US and a close follower of US politics I think you got it about right. There is not anything like the US right wing in Canada. Basically the whole country is left of center (by US standards) including all 3 main parties. The party in power may be called 'Conservatives' but they are NOTHING like US Conservatives. Case in point they used to be called the 'Progressive Conservatives' but they merged with another party and shortened the name. The Bloc is the closest thing we have to the reich wing but they are really just a regional single issue party that happens to have national status. They want to preserve the french culture and the more radical elements want to secceed. So it would kinda be like a Texas national party except with REAL culture and less ignorance.

My whole take on the US nonsense right now is that the GOP in it's current form is basically dying. Figuratively and literally. In the short term it may seem chaotic and scary as they become more desperate but long term the country will be moving to the left as all the old white people die off and the immigrant population become a larger part of the electorate.

[Arkana]

12. Canadian conservatives == WAAAAAAAAAAAAY THE FUCK to the left

of American conservatives. In fact, they'd probably be Democrats in America.

[Posteritatis]

22. It depends wildly by region too

There's conservatives in Nova Scotia who I'd happily vote for at the provincial level (albeit not many of them), but I'd even worry about liberals who managed to squeak a federal seat in any rural riding in Alberta.

A lot of provincial conservatives in Canada would probably be center or center-right Democrats in the US; our federal ones have been very actively basing themselves on the Republicans for a few years, though.

[applegrove]

13. You are correct sir. As long as the centre left remains divided into three parties

the conservatives will have minorities. I wish the Liberals would get out there and put themselves in the news. They have been all to quiet in the last few monts. Perhaps they are keeping their powder dry but it worries me.

[Selatius]

20. "Keeping their powder dry" is an unfortunate turn of phrase here in the US.

Many on the left inside the US routinely criticize the Democratic Party for "keeping their powder dry" until it is too late, such as dragging their feet on holding hearings for possible war crimes committed under Bush-Cheney or slow-walking efforts to cut off funding for an illegal war in Iraq. Another common turn of phrase is "snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."

Edited for spelling.