Got mine and F---ck you. That sums the attitude of many Americans

[nadinbrzezinski]

this is not about health care, or the RNC, or the kookie right.

This is an attitude and an attitude that has led to the end of a society and the rise of a libertarian society, I use the term "society" loosely, that only cares about number one.

We can blame Reagan for it, and truth be told this really took the modern form during those years. We, those of us who are old enough to remember, know those glory years as the years of the YUPPIE. I will hazard to say that they are epitome of this "got mine, and F---k you." But there were people before them that were part of that cultural imperative, some regions have it more than others, and yes, there are plenty of people that came AFTER them that are the same way... so being alive and conscious during the 80s does not make you automatically an asshole. Making sure you guys get it, especially those fighting over Woodstock... give me a fucking break, do the job of the power structure for the power structure...

Perhaps what we are seeing is the end of this... perhaps the pendulum has gone to the center. (Forget there is no left in the US, and if you think there is one... okie dokie, the American left is center anywhere else)

Now this is why some of this may be ending.

Have you heard the war cry SOCIALISM... ok don't know about you, apart of the idiots screaming it trying to get us to run under our beds cowering.... in a McCarthy like fashion, realize this is not having the intended effect. The idiots don't know what the term means, but half of America doesn't care either. The Cold War officially ended in the early 1990s... it's been almost 20 years, yes a generation has been born, raised, and started to vote. They don't know what them scary commies or socialists, or whatchmacalit are... nor that they should be scared of them. As it were, they missed the memo. So as they scream they scratch their heads. Them are not scared pa... don't get it pa... why's dat pa?

That said, if we are to evolve as a society, and actually CREATE a society that works, this I got mine and f--ck you needs to stop. And that goes for our side too...

So it is time to create the world we want to... or perhaps not. I don't know... but perhaps a nice first step would be to stop this generation baiting... and attacking events that to some are their formative years.

How about starting there... after all you ung uns, you will be in this place, where I seat, and look at the world and be blamed for all the ills of the world by the next generation. It does not fail... as they say, pick a history book. That is another pattern of the US.

Deal? Can we do that?

(and for the record I was way too young when it happened, and not even living in this country... woodstuck? no, not quite... except a history book. And yes, you ung uns, it was important at many levels and yes it defined a generation and its music)

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. What is

"F---ck "?

I'm stumped..................

[Bicoastal]

2. Oh come on. When has that EVER been an American value?

Oh, wait...

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. It was slightly different back then

why I qualified it to the modern form taking its modern shape in the ahem "glorious 80s."

Of course some elements took form in the glorious 1880s

:hi:

[misanthrope]

14. Don't forget that Henry Dawes described the Indigenous People he saw in Oklahoma as...

..."Having no selfishness, which is at the bottom of civilization." So the congressman and his cohorts set about trying to instill greater avarice in the people they had all but destroyed. How kind of him...

[CountAllVotes]

4. I do not agree with your synopsis at all

I have health insurance, yes I do. It is good health insurance and it also costs a lot of money. I spend a large portion of my measly income on health care.

This does not mean I do not want others to have health care.

It is dangerous not to have it and in the long run, it is a lose lose situation for all involved.

For a few years, I had no health insurance and I was having manifestations of a very serious illness. I did not go to a doctor being I had no way to pay one. Had I known what the problem was, I would have made changes in my lifestyle a lot sooner and would not have had to wait a few years until I had health insurance again to obtain the medical attention I required.

There are many others in this boat that I was in. Why would I say to a person that is uninsured, "Fuck you! I have my health insurance and you deserve nothing loser!".

This is a very negative way to think, it accomplishes nothing, and also it does not help the cause for a health care plan to go through.

I want to see something go through for those that don't have health insurance because I happen to care about other people. I find it unacceptable. I see nothing about my point of view to be "socialistic" btw.

:dem:

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Things that are marks of a society do not necessarily apply to the

individual. Nor is this just about health care.

It could easily be about schools. Many folks in my position, married, wtih no children, resent having to pay property taxes that will help pay the young ones education. Me, I don't care, in fact, I want the best possible education accessible to a universality of kids, all the way to college. But that is not the society.

Start listening to any of these debates that imply social policy and public services. Tune in, many of the arguments made by those against these programs do sum up to I got mine, f--uck you.

It is a social trait, not necessarily an individual one. So how do you and I change that dynamic and make these people the minority they properly should be in any working society?

[marew]

17. My thoughts exactly!

I believe many who call themselves "Christian" (I happen not to) have this attitude you describe so well. How do they argue against "Sell what you have, give to the poor, and come, follow me." or "What you do to the least of my brethren, you do to me?" They have a serious cognitive disconnect. Compassion is a word they know nothing about.

[Stand and Fight]

13. Maybe you need to re-read the OP. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

6. All I know is I can't stand listening to Libertarians and Republicans that don't pay taxes

and surviving because of our programs bitching about taxes and socialism. I pay taxes every fucking year but those that get back every dime plus with kids on medicaid are making me a mushroom cloud laying motherfucker crying about the shit that keeps them above water off the sweat of my brow!!!

Its hard to maintain a sense of community with bastards biting and peeing on the hands that feed them. Just look at the red NON-DONOR states sending morons to gum up the works.

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. thus the challenge, to create a sense of community

and partly that comes from education. Many of those on government assistance don't truly realize they are. Some do and still rail against it, and you can't do nothing about those folks. All societies have them.

But we need to move from their attitude as the prevailing one (and it is not just Republicans) to one where community is the prevailing one. Where railing against social services paid by the state, or government spending when using roads, public schools, public grids, leads to social shunning.

So how do we get from where we are... to where we need to be? If we don't, no matter what we do, we already lost in the long run.

[kenny blankenship]

8. "Socialism doesn't work in America"

because America is not a society. A patchwork of armed camps that fear and despise each other is a better description.

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Exactly my point

some of us are the exception to this mentality, but we are not the rule.

Of course asking these people to define socialism is always a fun, if cruel exercise. I have yet to find one that knows what it is... and I am sure there are some out there.

[Indenturedebtor]

10. I wish you were right about Woodstock... but that's besides the point

I agree.. no one seems to have a fucking clue what Socialism is. And it's utterly undeniable that most of the people we see railing against social reform are those who would benefit from it most.

America wasn't always this way. In the first half of the 20th century many great things were done for the good of future generations and the poor.

[downeyr]

11. Amen to this!

You know something is wrong when people are calling Obama a Socialist and Hitler at the same time. And since when is Soviet Russia an acceptable model for actual Socialism? F.D.R. came in at exactly the right time to push all of his reform and the people who are against reform don't seem to realize that reform was the thing that pulled us out of the Great Depression! It's too bad we couldn't have settled the issue of health care back then, too.

[Indenturedebtor]

27. It seems as though many people can only think in catch phrases and meaningless allegory now

It's really a shame. How does one debate a liar though? It must be really tough to have to stand toe to toe with a lying puke.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. My point over Woodstock is that this is the latest

non issue that people are fighting over. I have no clue why, but every so often, increasingly more often than not, we are seeing these non issues become ahem important.

People are being manipulated in ways that just astound me.

[GreenTea]

12. And the "I never get sick so why do I care" - But if & when they do...the crying really begins.....

[1]

15. nadin, bud... i love you. and you are young. but this "i got mine?" it didn't start with reagan...

it didn't start in the 1980's.

it has been with us from the beginning of recorded time.



history is your friend. take a look back. you will be amazed.

every generation confronts this. i hope yours will be more successful.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. Why I said the PRESENT form of this disease took form during Reagan

not that it started with Reagan.

Though I would make an argument that it became an accepted value as society was replaced by individuals in ways that it had not been acceptable to that point.

But yes, it has existed since the beginning of time... it just changes forms every so often, like a damn chameleon. I'd say about 30% of any given society are that way. no matter what you do. The problem is when they become dominant.

[Fumesucker]

16. I recall telling my then mother in law in 1976 or 77 that yuppies would be the downfall of America..

I just didn't think it was going to come in my lifetime.

But then, I didn't expect to be alive now either.


Funny how things turn out sometimes.

[SOS]

18. "United We Stand"!

Except for the 20,000 who die every year from lack of affordable medical treatment.

It's much easier to bury and forget them.
Perhaps they didn't wave their little plastic American flags with enough enthusiasm?

[Echo In Light]

19. Sick empire

[VMI Dem]

21. I've seen that very attitude here regarding civil rights for gays.

In the short time I have been reading this site.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. It exists in every group

the problem, as I keep saying is, when it becomes dominant...

[Stephanie]

24. That's actually a tenet of Glenn Beck's 9-12 pledge:

http://www.the912project.com/the-912-2/

The 9/12
The 9 Principles

6. I have a right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, but there is no guarantee of equal results.

Life, Liberty, & The Pursuit of Happiness “Everyone has a natural right to choose that vocation in life which he thinks most likely to give him comfortable subsistence.” Thomas Jefferson

7. I work hard for what I have and I will share it with who I want to. Government cannot force me to be charitable.

Charity “It is not everyone who asketh that deserveth charity; all however, are worth of the inquiry or the deserving may suffer.” George Washington

[seabeckind]

25. Agree...

Reagan rode the trend that was already beginning and made it acceptable. He used it as a bait and switch to further his (loosely, his handlers) agenda -- the fight they started in 1937. Very scary time, coming off the bill coming due for our little vacation in SE Asia, not to mention ME with the hostage thing. He used that fear.

The bait and switch was that old thing of the mogul riding down the middle of the street and throwing nickels out the window of his limo. People on the curb don't see the limo, they just see the nickel.

And they fight over the nickel -- especially when there are right and left. Each side sees the other side as getting more nickels.

Some of us would throw the nickel at the limo.

[kctim]

26. Our population burst is the cause of this attitude.

The more people you have, the more programs you need.
The more programs you need, the more money you need.
The more money you take, the more resentment you create.

Our only choice is to allow them to struggle on the side while we move forward. Their choice, let them live with it.

[onestepforward]

28. A typical quote from my local message board:

"Ex-Lady In Blue --- 1 hours ago - quote


I'm sure if it passes you will be TAKING my life savings. YOU and ONLY YOU are responsible for providing for your welfare."


It is full of vile stuff. Needless to say, I don't post there anymore. No use.