Will you donate time and money to Obama or Dem candidates if there is no public option?"

[ray of light]

[Mojambo]

1. The Democrats have earned neither my time nor money.

And not just on health care.

[timeforpeace]

32. Oh please, what's the alternative? They only take us for granted because they can.

[Mojambo]

33. I never said there was an alternative.

I'll spend my time working to elect progressives locally.

The national Democratic party can suck an egg as far as I'm concerned.

[Echo In Light]

76. That's sort of been my approach for over a decade; vote prog Dems locally, indies for president

[sabrina 1]

34. And they can only do that because

they believe we have no alternative and we'll scream and yell but vote for them in the end. That is what has to stop.

It's like threatening a child if he repeats bad behavior with consequences and then not following through. When they know we mean it, they'll stop ignoring us.

[Sebastian Doyle]

41. Us?

Yeah, like you ever voted for a Democrat in your life. :eyes:

[ThomWV]

55. Because there is currently no better candidate is not a reason to support a bad one

[opihimoimoi]

90. Whats the Point of voting for the Pubs when all they do is Fear Monger and Lie?

Get it Straight...the Pubs LIE...intentionally....do not be Fooled Again....

[Political Heretic]

63. The alternative is to stop throwing our money away.

Go out and buy yourself something nice... ;)

[BR_Parkway]

65. Not any longer - they can't take me for granted if I choose not to participate

and if others won't hold their feet to the fire, then what reason will they ever have to stop taking us for granted

[ray of light]

2. I hope the wording on the questions is clear.

[ray of light]

52. Please VOTE and REC nt

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ray of light]

4. peekers become voters, please! (rec's would be appreciated so we can get a huge

count on this.)

[ellenfl]

5. looks like this thread is being trolled by righties . . . or VERY

fairweather dems. this is how we lose to the neanderthal rw republicans.

go ahead and cut off your nose to spite your face but you will have only yourselves to blame when the republicans take back congress and the white house.

i'm just totally gobsmacked by this response (5 yes, 19 no). y'all ought to be ashamed to call yourselves democrats or liberals or progressives . . . you're not.

ellen fl

[WeDidIt]

7. WE GAVE THE FUCKERS EVERYTHING THEY ASKED FOR!

And it's still not enough?

Fuck 'em.

They deserve to lose.

[stray cat]

11. These are progressives - thats why we lose

[rhett o rick]

24. I thought the progressives helped Obama win? We been winning or haven't you been

paying attention?

[niceypoo]

12. People are just worn out by the Democrats lack of spine

If they have no spine when they control EVERYTHING why do they even exist?

There is nothing liberal or progressive about the Democratic party as it is now.

[frazzled]

13. I agree with you

These are either troublemakers, or the politically naive.

The argument seems to be, since we've got more than half the country opposed to this and are being attacked on all sides as socialists, that no bill at all is better than one with, say, coops. And finally, that we should help Republicans because Democrats couldn't get it all through. The naive seem to think that where Obama and his allies have failed, Dennis Kucinich could somehow win. In your dreams.

I am sure glad DU wasn't around when Clinton signed the Welfare bill.

[laughingliberal]

85. Lifelong Democrat here

Sorry, but I have been a Democrat since before I could vote. Parents were civil rights activists in Memphis. I met MLK 2 days before he was killed. Have never voted for a Republican in my life and will never. But I am disgusted at the sell out I see coming, as it stands now, out of this health care reform bill. A mandate on working people to buy health insurance from the evil insurance industry and nothing to keep their premium prices from gouging us? And a fine for those who don't manage to obtain it? Final nail in the coffin of the middle and working classes as far as I can see.

[Laelth]

92. Well said. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[kiva]

17. And you are the 'decider' about who is sufficiently democratic

or liberal or progressive? Get over yourself - I'm not a 'rightie' and I've voted and worked for and donated to democrats for 35 years so my creds are just fine thank you, and I will not work for or vote for any dem who opposes the public option, which is the bare minimum of change that we worked for in last year's election.

[DevonRex]

25. The result is the same: No healthcare reform and working AGAINST dems.

I don't give a rat's ass what a person calls themselves. If the result of their work is that we get no progress, they're NOT on the liberal side.

[kiva]

29. OK, let's try readiing the OP again, and go for comprehension

this time.

"Poll question: Will you donate time and money to Obama or Dem candidates if there is no public option?"

You are trying to spin the question by implying that the OP is suggesting working against Obama and the dems before they have passed any legislation, when the question is simply one of consequences - if we don't get the tiniest scrap (a public option) then there is no healthcare reform, no 'progress' and the current group of legislators and the administration don't deserve the support of any liberal.

[DrDan]

19. and the difference would be what . . . .

[ellenfl]

44. he's only 6 months into his freaking term! y'all are spineless just

like you accuse dem congress critters of being. the first whiff of trouble and y'all go running. again, no wonder we keep losing elections. we cannot hold a candle to the cohesiveness of the republicans and that is what it takes to hold the fort.

if the republicans had not gifted us with bushco we would still be wandering in the wilderness. they were in control for 30 years. did you really think it was going to be a cakewalk undoing what they have done? the corporations and the fundies are so firmly entrenched in our government that we don't even know what they all look like yet! heck, we just found out about c street and their influence!

go on. marginalize yourselves some more. me, i'm going to have obama's back and the backs of any other dems who deserve it and i will not let conservatives/fundies take over again for lack of my trying to keep them out. for me, that means donating to the big 'd' democratic groups that i believe in. for you, that apparently means dropping out and watching from the sidelines. you can't win if you don't play.

i guess some here did learn something from sarah palin.

ellen fl

[DrDan]

61. a cakewalk undoing what the bush-felons left us? Of course it is not going to be easy.

But . . . we need at least the interest of the D's in congress. What I see is more interest in maintaining the bush status quo than working to change it. And that includes those in the White House.

Your claim that the corporations and the fundies are firmly entrenched. Right you are. And it appears to me that they are taking the appearance of both sides. I see so little difference any more . . . save those that deserve a larger voice - ala Kucinich. And they are so few and far between.

Not sure why you insist with your personal insults - "dropping out and watching from the sidelines". What is that all about. You no nothing about me. My wife and I were financial and time supporters of Fl congresswoman Suzanne Kosmas. We will continue our support of her. She is one of the declining numbers of D's that remain worth it.

When it comes to the party however, not one more dime from me until I see some change I believe in.

dan fl

[ellenfl]

79. i only donated to the dnc when howard dean was chairman.

i will never donate to dlc or any of the other center/center-right organizations. but i will continue to support those dems who share my values. if we stand to lose a seat, i WILL donate to the dem, blue dog or not, who is running for that seat, to keep it. look what dubya accomplished with a republican congress.

i am bleating at the people here who are just giving up on everyone and every organization. that's why we got into the mess we were in. i'm not saying that anyone has to donate but everyone should get involved and stay involved if we are to have any chance of keeping control for more than a couple of years. i am already hearing that the house is likely to turn republican in 2010.

throwing up your hands and saying 'i'm done' is defeatist.

we can very easily lose the gains we have made. do you see any conservatives giving up on their congress-critters? oh, that's right they did . . . in 2006 and 2008. that should have been a lesson to us. another lesson is that the remaining republicans are NOT giving up.

ellen fl

[DevonRex]

23. It's the so-called "progressives" who will ultimately stop any progress

and are the ones voting. And the trolls, of course, some of whom pretend to be progressives.

Ultimately they're working for the same result: no progress.

[Seen the light]

28. What is the point of voting for Democrats if....

they are this pathetic and weak and right-wing?

Barack Obama is a coward if it turns out that he's dropping the public option.

[ray of light]

31. No. These are democrats--the BASE--who donated TIME and MONEY and they are using their group effort

efforts and voices to SAY TO DEMS IN the SENATE and HOUSE...

NO MORE PLAYING GAMES WITH OUR LIVES. GET OUT OF BED WITH THOSE LOBBYISTS AND START WORKING FOR THE PEOPLE!

[sabrina 1]

36. Righties? It looks like the Democratic Congress

has been infiltrated by righties. Anyone who has taken money from the healthcare industry is compromised and can be assumed to be working for them, not us. To continue to support such people is just plain stupid.

The issues facing the country right now appear to be way beyond the capacity of either party to solve. Neither seems too interested in doing so.

I've heard this before, what you've written in your post, in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008. What important issues have the Democrats gone all out for without eventually telling us we need to be 'bi-partisan' and giving away power, as they are doing now, to the party who lost that power?

I will not listen again to the argument 'we need a majority before we can do anything'. We're hardly likely, ever again, to get the majority we now have and still there are excuses.

Calling people 'righties' will not change the minds of democrats who over and over again, have been betrayed by the party they supported.

They want our votes, and then they want us to go away like good little dems, and let the big boys go back to business as usual, until the next election.

Your anger is mis-directed. Direct it where it belongs, at those who are losing the support of their base, BECAUSE OF THEIR OWN ACTIONS or inaction.

[Tesha]

50. In a few parts of the country (like Massachusetts), we could probably elect folks from a party...

*TO THE LEFT* of the Democrats as a whole. Massachusetts' national
Democrats are pretty far left themselves though (well, maybe excepting
Steven Lynch).

Vermont could (and has!) elected representation to the left of the Dems,
but again, Peter Welch is a pretty left Dem.

But I think this is what it will take to educate the national party that
they've taken the left for granted for far too long.

Tesha

[ellenfl]

53. i hope the moderate repubs and dems form a 3rd party.

we need a left/center/right party structure, imo. in the meantime, we make do with what we have . . . including my hero, bernie sanders.

ellen fl

[madamesilverspurs]

78. There was speculation over the weekend

that DU is getting freeped. IMHO, the speculation is warranted.

[CanonRay]

6. Actually, I won't do shit for any Democrat again.

Fuck 'em all if they can't pass this moderate proposal. Let the Rethugs regain control, and run the country right into the ground. Maybe then people will rise up and call the corporations who really run things to account. Sorry, but I've had it.

[Blaukraut]

8. Obama yes, my congressman yes, DNC and others, no

Obama is only as effective as the Dem congress allows him to be. If they don't have his back and work with him, he can't keep all the promises he made in good faith. My congressman is above reproach and supports a public option. I honestly believe he would vote for single payer if it came up, so I will continue to work for him.
No money for DNC or DCCC, though. The idea of even one cent of my donation going to a Blue Dog makes my stomach turn.

[Sebastian Doyle]

42. You can't let Obama off the hook here.

He's the one who hired Sebelius. He's the one who put Wall $treet whores in charge of the economy. He's the guy who made the tool who did more to rig Congressional Democrats to corporate prostitution than anyone else on the planet his fucking Chief of Staff. Obama is hardly blameless here.

And if he signs a bill without a TRUE public option, then he will absolutely own this craven corporate cowardice, and it definitely will bite him in the ass in 2012.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

72. well put. Why break our backs getting him elected, if he

ends up keeping all Bush policies? Torture, Gitmo, DOJ problems, - hell, the ONLY politician who was given a pass on his conviction was a REPUBLICAN convict. Where is the DOJ on Siegelman?

Bybee's got a cushy lifetime job. Yoo has a cushy educational post. Cheney is extremely rich from Haliburton. Even Blackwater thugs are getting a pass.

And now, he is selling us out on Health Care, favoring the Insurance industry over us?

[rucky]

9. Primary challengers - yes!

[stray cat]

10. I will campaign for Sarah Palin in 2012 of course!

:sarcasm: The GOP will bring health care reform if we elect them - we already know their plan from John McCain.

[noamnety]

14. other

not donating or helping anyone who has been voting for or otherwise supporting military occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

[liberaltrucker]

15. Not just no...HELL NO!!!

nt

[d_b]

16. no

in fact, i'll be done with the party.

[Scarsdale Vibe]

18. If one Democratic Senator wants to filibuster, the public option is dead.

No reason to blame every single Democrat in office, that's irrational. Of course, any senators that say they will filibuster should be kicked off all committees and their offices moved to the janitorial closet.

[WeDidIt]

22. I will blame them ALL

The pressure needs to be put on all Dems in the Senate.

IF you can't vote for cloture on every bill, you can't have ANYTHING you want in any bill.

[rhett o rick]

26. Pres Obama has the votes to push thru a plan with a public option. What's he waiting for? nm

[Sebastian Doyle]

43. And that spineless wonder in your avatar

will do absolutely nothing if one of those Blue Balled tools does filibuster.

[lefthandedlefty]

20. No and I will never vote again

[onehandle]

21. Uh... Both. I'm not, not going to support the party. nt

[Blue_In_AK]

27. Absolutely not.

I'm already extremely selective about who I give money to.

[OHdem10]

30. I am seriously considering becoming an Independent.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone,

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever, in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else, where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent. If I could not go to heaven but with a party, I would not go there at all." --Thomas Jefferson to Francis Hopkinson, 1789.

"Were parties here divided merely by a greediness for office,...to take a part with either would be unworthy of a reasonable or moral man." --Thomas Jefferson to William Branch Giles, 1795.

[Individualist]

37. +1

[Edweird]

38. If they don't care about me, I have no use for them. We NEED single payer

or a STRONG public option on the way to single payer.

[crazy_vanilla]

39. come back, Howard Dean

Great poll, by the way!

[ray of light]

46. thanks. I tried to keep it simple.

[sendero]

40. I'm pretty much done...

... with politics. There really ISN'T that much difference between the two parties any more. They are both beholden to their donor base, with Reps it's the defense contractors with Dems its the bankers and insurers.

Fuck them all. The country is headed for a protracted economic abyss, maybe when 20% of the country is unemployed they will have the time to take back our government.

[ray of light]

45. kick

[ray of light]

56. kick

[ThomWV]

68. kick

[Laelth]

69. kick

I'd like to see a lot more votes on this poll. The base is sending a message.

:dem:

-Laelth

[tomm2thumbs]

73. kick

[ray of light]

82. thanks. :-)

[Laelth]

89. Kick.

:)

:dem:

-Laelth

[Laelth]

96. last kick for me. n/t

:)

:dem:

-Laelth

[ray of light]

97. last kick for me until morning. nt

[ray of light]

87. kick

[Sheri]

99. kick

[Laelth]

47. Ignore this poll at your peril, Democratic Party operatives.

This is your base talking, and we are not happy.

k&r for exposure.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ray of light]

51. that was the purpose of it. But it's not on the Homepage so prob. won't be seen.

[Laelth]

58. Probably won't get there, either.

But I am happy to kick it.

:dem:

-Laelth

[ray of light]

59. thanks. Odd so many 'views' but only 160 votes (approx) nt

[Laelth]

60. Many people, I suspect, are repeat visitors ... back to check the numbers. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[ray of light]

70. yeh. i guess you're right. nt

[bigwillq]

48. I do not donate to politicians

at least not in the last few years. I did donate to Dean in 2004.

[dysfunctional press]

49. i am DONE with voting, campaigning, donating, and everything else.

fuck them. fuck this corporatist BULLSHIT.

i've GOT medicare, so i don't know why i'm letting it upset me anyway...but it fucking DOES, and i'm just fed up with the whole enchilada.

[JanMichael]

54. No. nt.

[Sheri]

57. i was always a bit of a socialist, any way.

:)

[Political Heretic]

62. No. I'm done donating money to people who don't represent my interests.

[greguganus]

64. NO! What little money I have to donate will only go to local campaigns. n/t

[MadHound]

66. You need another option

One for those of us who will leave the Democratic Party behind and never, ever look back.

After nearly forty years of watching Dems compromise our future away, after nearly forty years of watching them do the bidding of their corporate masters, after nearly forty years of listening to excuse after excuse for not passing progressive legislation, I'm done, I will be through with them. It is bad enough that we're being offered this weak substitute of public option instead of true single payer. But if they're not even going to bother with the public option, and instead simply mandate that we're going to have to have some sort of privatized insurance, fuck the Democratic party then, I'm gone.

[Norwood]

67. Why?

So we can just seat another dem whos gonna crack under the pressure of the minority party? The majority of the country wants this, but because the mean ol repukes will talk bad about them the democrats will probably cut it from the bill.

What the hell is the point if there is no public option?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

71. someone send this poll to the White house. Maybe they can find someone

to read it to them, and explain the growing anger.

[ray of light]

75. Send it to Baucus and Conrad and others who are trying to minimize reform

[ChairmanAgnostic]

77. that, too.

but, they have been bribed too well to change.

[laughingliberal]

86. A Great Idea. I sent a thread yesterday

I sent the thread yesterday from LBN with all the outrage over Sebelius' statement on public option.

[ray of light]

74. kick. please vote.

[Eyerish]

80. No, I'm done.

I will work & donate to elect progressives locally.

[BradXXX]

81. If they can't do the public option now, they never will...

I would be voting 3rd party. If that means the repubs get control again, so be it. There isn't much difference these days anyway. It wouldn't be our fault, it'd be all on the spineless dems ignoring their base.

[Mystayya]

83. No- Not unless I see them grow a spine

I'll stick to local candidates. Between healthcare and equality my patience is running thin. If my congress critters do not push hard for a public option and openly state they want DOMA and DADT gone (we already have marriage at state level here) they will see not more help from me. The exception would be my Sen Kennedy, due to circumstances.

[ray of light]

84. just kicking. Need imput...

[loyalkydem]

88. NO

and I may go Independent if they don't get this done.

[BlooInBloo]

91. Nope. When my team fails to score a touchdown, I just quit.

[ray of light]

93. So... you must not be a Detroit Lions supporter? nt

[ray of light]

94. kicking

[WillyT]

95. Kick !!!

:kick:

[ray of light]

98. just one more kick this morning.