Gun toting insurrection advocating while white vs angry on porch while black

[endarkenment]

Somebody explain to me how racism is not pervasive in law enforcement. Heck, how racism is not ubiquitous in our society. Days of false noise outrage over an observation about police stupidity with Gates, silence over right wing gun toting goonery. Disorderly Conduct arrests for angry black men being angry on their own porch, hands off with white gun-loons advocating armed insurrection within shooting distance of our president.

Time to pack the bags if this version of the republican party returns to power.

[panAmerican]

1. Very interesting contrast!

[Statistical]

2. While I personally don't think Gates was disorderly I don't think the gun owner was either.

The role of the Police is to enforce statutes. There was no statute prohibiting his actions.

Was it necessary? I don't think so
Was it stupid? Maybe
Was it a PR stunt? Of course

Does NH have any laws that make doing unnecessary, stupid PR stunts illegal? Not that I am aware of.

The Police did EXACTLY what they should have in the case of the Gun owner.

Regarding Gates based on the background of the officer I think it was more a power thing than a race thing.

[endarkenment]

4. What would have been the probability of arrest if

the president was McCain and the gunloon was black?

Be honest in your answer.


My point was not 'was the gunloon disorderly' nor was it 'was Gates disorderly'. It was an observation about two different police responses to two separate incidents and how those two incidents reflect on the state of our society.

I personally think that if we have reached the point where one of our two major political parties has aligned itself and supports and coordinates the activities of armed militias as part of its political activities, and I think we are very close to that point, that we gentle law abiding citizens of this republic should be very concerned and need to be asking questions about the loyalty of our official armed organizations such as the police and the armed forces. When that same party is also pushing racial religious and ethnic divisions, past history indicates that the cascade into civil violence can be rapid and devastating.

[Gman2]

26. I would like to arm a black man, with an angry black perspective

same otherwise. And use it as a test. If they react differently, it would be obvious.

[Caliman73]

29. My honest answer is that the Black man would have been arrested.

The problem with the comparison is that you are comparing two very different situations and trying to link the response to race/ethnicity. I do believe that the incident with professor Gates was at least partially driven by race, but also by the police officer's mentality of "authority" trumps all. I do believe that a Black or Latino person with a gun on their hip would have gotten a different response. I would test that theory out myself but I don't feel like sitting in a jail cell and losing my right to own firearms on some bullshit.

The Black Panthers walked around the streets of Oakland armed with rifles, shotguns, and pistols on their hips. Although they scared the shit out of a great many people, they were never arrested until they walked into the California Legislature with their firearms. Even they they weren't arrested because of the guns. They were arrested on some bullshit about entering the legislature during session, but the laws were changed quickly after that. That would be a more fitting comparison and would illustrate the difference in which the ethnic groups were and are treated.

Regarding the armed forces and civilian authorities, some will be loyal to the power structure, and some will be loyal to their communities. The armed forces an many police departments appear to be one cohesive unit in the field, and they have to be as their lives depend on each other, but they are not of one political ideology and do not necessarily extend their bond outside of active duty. I would say that no one political party has a lock on the military or police. What I do think is that the Republican party would be way more likely to try and use the police and military to suppress opposition.

[endarkenment]

30. "The Black Panthers walked around the streets of Oakland armed with rifles, shotguns, and pistols on

And were subsequently targeted for one of the most lethal domestic intelligence operation in the history of our country. You make an excellent point, but perhaps not the one you intended.

[Caliman73]

31. Actually, I was helping you make your point in a more effective way.

People who think that the police respond the same way to Whites and minorities are either naive, or willfully ignorant. The LAPD has a shameful racial history as does the Oakland PD. The Panthers were targeted after they became too much of a threat to the establishment. I am not saying that they would not have been targeted, they were probably under surveillance prior to the Legislature incident, but they crossed a line. They had engaged in many shadowing activities of the police with loaded weapons, without incident. The police did not like it at all, but there was never anything to arrest the for because Huey knew the laws and his rights. They pushed things a bit too far and ended up targeted. If the idiot at the Obama town hall would have tried to move in closer, or made any overtly threatening gestures, he would have been targeted as well, like the idiot with the "Death to Obama" sign. Unfortunately Whites and Minorities have a somewhat different line and that is a problem we have to fix.

The Gates incident and the TOL protester incident was like comparing apples to shoe horns.

[madokie]

15. With the Gates thing it was power over the black man

Which would make it a race thing, would it not?

[KittyWampus]

3. Far as I know, no one called police on GunBoy's behavior. He was just standing quietly

Having a firearm is legal in NH.

And I'm quite certain he was being watched by Secret Service at all times.

Oh, and the quote GunBoy was touting, while used by McVeigh, is also flashed around by DU'ers not infrequently.

[endarkenment]

5. Standing quietly advocating insurrection while wearing a gun

within pistol range of our president.

Left wing protesters have been arrested for wearing a tee shirt too close to the former president.

[Statistical]

6. If he had done that he would have been arrested.

He was never within pistol range of the President. The Secret Service is good at their job. The President was indoors behind layers of security and the gun owner was outside across the street with no line of sight to the President.

To get a gun within gun range of the President he would had to have violated the security bubble and those clearly have no firearms signs posted.

[KittyWampus]

7. See, I appreciate YOUR point about double standards and think it works better than the OP'ers.

[imdjh]

9. So you want this administration to act like the last?

This "if this then that" gets tiresome regardless of who is doing it.

The guy in NH wasn't breaking any laws and the SS left him alone which is what they are supposed to do. What would have or might have happened if Bush had encountered a 2nd Amendment protestor is irrelevant.

[endarkenment]

10. No. I am pointing out that our police force is in general a right wing racist organization

and that we have a right wing major political party that is encouraging violence, racism, religious and ethnic divisions, and that we should be massively concerned about where this all is heading.

Neither gates nor the gun loon should have been arrested. Neither tee shirt wearing left wing protesters nor legally gun wearing insurrection advocating right wing protesters should have been arrested. Who was arrested? Why? How about them apples?

When the violence starts, and it looks like it is a good bet it will start, who's side will our police force be on?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. Gates made one really big mistake.

He insulted a police officers mother. While that doesn't make his arrest "right" it certainly shouldn't have been unexpected by him or anyone else. I can assure you if the "protester" had started yelling at the police calling them communists and insulting their mothers then he would have been arrested and charged.

[Beer on a stick]

19. "Our" police force? Where are you? There is no national police force....

unless you meant the FBI, and they had nothing to do with this.

[endarkenment]

22. Our police force.

The national coordination of police operations and activities, practices, training, equipment and indoctrination dates back at least to the escalation of the WOD during the Reagan administration.

[Beer on a stick]

24. Sorry, that animal doesn't exist.

[endarkenment]

8. It is a call for armed insurrection

'flashed around by DU' is not quite equivalent to what this thug was up to.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. The courts would disagree.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

11. Consider that there are different agencies involved. Secret Service vs local cops.

[endarkenment]

12. fail - local police were happy to arrest anti-bush protesters

for wearing anti bush tee shirts and/or carrying anti-bush signs.

Try again.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. YOu missed the point...Secret Service is quite a bit higher quality than local cops

[endarkenment]

20. I'm sorry but it was my point to begin with.

Local police forces are racist rightwing gun totting goon squads. I am over generalizing, but not by much.

[TexasObserver]

17. recommend

[Beer on a stick]

18. Why on earth would you even consider the two things comparable?

Apple, meet orange.

[endarkenment]

21. apples, oranges, both are fruit.

So explain to me why we cannot compare apples to oranges?

[Beer on a stick]

23. Ah, you skipped freshman year algebra, I see.

Never mind.

[endarkenment]

25. No I skipped stupid.

[Beer on a stick]

27. And moved right on to clueless, I see.

[EFerrari]

28. Welcome back to DU.

[Raineyb]

32. ...

[BlooInBloo]

33. And the guy making threats against Obama has been allowed to sit there for hours.

[kevinbgoode]

34. Hmmm...so what would the teabaggers say if

someone started an "guns for minorities" program? I mean, like actually started donating firearms to minorities only in America?

Now that would be an interesting topic to talk about - why do I think the baggers would go ballistic?