Chief: Tasing 76-year-old (on an antique tractor in a parade) probably not 'best way'

[Liberal_in_LA]

police chief and former cop speaking out against a tasering. Miracles do happen

Chief: Tasing 76-year-old probably not 'best way'

Tuesday, August 11, 2009

(08-11) 18:10 PDT Glenrock, Wyo. (AP) --

Glenrock Police Chief Tom Sweet said two officers "probably didn't do things the best way" when they used a Taser on a 76-year-old man driving an antique tractor in a parade. Sweet spoke at a packed town hall meeting Monday, nine days after Bud Grose was hit with a Taser during the town's annual Deer Creek Days.

The officers are on paid leave while state Division of Criminal Investigation agents investigate.

Mayor Steve Cielinski and most of the Town Council apologized to residents and asked for patience. Cielinski promised the findings will be made public.

"If we have to stand up and take it on the chin, we will," Cielinski said.

State investigator Tim Hill has said the two officers contend Grose disobeyed orders. Grose hasn't commented publicly, however, and investigators have not disclosed many details of what happened.

Sweet originally said it didn't appear any policies were violated.

Some at Monday's meeting called for the two officers to be fired. Several people who witnessed the event told the crowd police repeatedly shocked Grose with a taser.

"Those two were the most out-of-control officers I've ever seen in my life," said Scott McWilliams, a witness who said he was shoved by one of the officers. "These two guys got to go."

Mike Pyatt, a former Glenrock police officer, called on town leaders to make changes at the department.

"We will hold you accountable," he said.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/11/national/a170451D34.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0Nw1Vwe4M

[TexasObserver]

1. Recommend

[Mythsaje]

2. Any minute now

people will show up on-thread to explain how tasering an old man is perfectly justified under "procedure" and we should all be glad he wasn't just gunned down.

[Lorien]

3. Yep. The authoritarian apologists have been out in force lately

either RWers, brainwashed fools who watch too much TV and think that violence is always the best tool for all situations, brownshirts, or just teenage trolls with too much time on their hands.

[Mythsaje]

4. Well, one claims to be a cop.

:shrug:

I couldn't believe how many DUers argued that just blowing that old lady in the Wal-Mart away would've been legally (if not morally) justified. Bleh.

[wroberts189]

8. Whaa...someone here said whaa?? Blow away a confused granny??

WTF !?


God damn these people. What if it was their mother? Ill tell you ..if it was their mother they would be preparing a lawsuit.

If I was a cop I could easily disarm a pocket knife from an elderly woman. I could do it if I was a 14 year old amputee.


F*ck that and f*ck them.


sigh...

[Mythsaje]

13. Blew my mind too...

I had to pick my jaw up off the floor when I read that crap. If a cop can't take a knife from a confused little old lady (even if she had to accept the risk of getting cut a little) without slamming her to the pavement, she shouldn't be a cop. And maybe they should actually train them better.

[slampoet]

21. If it was their mother They'd be black too.

And seeing things as they really are.

[a la izquierda]

25. Tell me about it...

I thought I'd be teleported to an alternate universe. I'm surprised the mods didn't delete my post to one of them. It was, um, pointed to say the least.

[Mythsaje]

26. I posted my comments

and got the hell out, figuring it would likely just get worse from there. Anyone who can't handle an addled 85 y.o. woman without dumping her on the asphalt doesn't deserve to wear a uniform... not even a crossing guard uniform, as far as I'm concerned.

Sooner or later the authoritarians are going to push me too far and I'm going to get myself tombstoned. I hate bullies with a passion and that's what I see them as... either bullies themselves or bully apologists.

[wroberts189]

30. Its sad ..its like they lack the most basic conception of situational awareness.

New rule: No taser use on the elderly.

Or if they are in epileptic shock.

Or if they are diabetic.

Or if they have a heart condition.

Or if they are pregnant.

Or if they are underage.

Or IF THEY POSE NO SERIOUS THREAT.

And no multiple shots either..once they are on the ground that's it.

...Better yet just get rid of them all.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

47. I haven't heard of anyone being tasered during an epileptic seizure.

Kind of hard to tell the difference between hypoglycemia and drunkeness from a safe distance. Kind of hard to diagnose a heart condition from a safe distance. Same with early pregnancies and borderline ages. Other than those issues your point makes a lot of sense.

[wroberts189]

48. If I had the time I would send you the links. But its all been done.

I see one posted at least once every 1-2 days... no hyperbole.

[wroberts189]

49. Google is a quite a search engine...here is 20 cases...

http://www.google.com/search?q=epileptic++taser&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a


1.
Mind Hacks: Police taser a man having an epileptic seizure
ABC News report that Oakland police tasered a man having an epileptic seizure because he became agitated when restrained. ...
www.mindhacks.com/blog/2006/.../police_taser_a_man_h.html - Cached - Similar -
2.
Taser blamed for death of epileptic deacon
In a victim with epilepsy, being tasered can result in death. According to Amnesty International, tasers are at best an unknown danger and at worst, ...
www.wingcomltd.com/Articles/taser.htm - Cached - Similar -
3.
Gilroy, CA Epileptic Taser Excessive Force Settlement
Gilroy, CA: (Sep-04-07) John Davi, an epileptic who was Tasered and arrested in November 2004 after grappling with police, filed a lawsuit against the city, ...
www.lawyersandsettlements.com/.../epileptic-taser.html - Cached - Similar -
4.
Opposing Views: VIDEO: Officer Tasers Epileptic 14-Year-Old Girl ...
Akin told the News-Tribune that tasers should never be used on children. In additoin, the young girl is also said to have epilepsy, ...
www.opposingviews.com/.../video-officer-tasers-epileptic-14-year-old-girl-in-the-head - Cached - Similar -
5.
Epilepsy: Police Taser 14 Year Old Epileptic
Jul 10, 2009 ... Police Taser 14 Year Old Epileptic ... Wrongful Death Suit Filed in Case of Man with Epilepsy Restrained and Tasered by Police ...
epstorm.blogspot.com/.../police-taser-14-year-old-epileptic.html - Cached - Similar -
6.
Lawsuit Over Taser Use on Epileptic Settles for $90000 ...
A lawsuit for tasing and punching a man who had just had an epileptic seizure has been settled for $90000. In addition, the settlement mentioned a new ...
seattle.injuryboard.com/.../lawsuit-over-taser-use-on-epileptic-settles-for-90000.aspx?... - Cached - Similar -
7.
Newsvine - Officer Tasers Epileptic 14-Year-Old Girl in the Head
Jul 11, 2009 ... A 14-year-old girl was tasered in the head by Tucumcari Police Chief Roger Hatcher for running across the street without looking.
scott-albright.newsvine.com/_.../3017534-officer-tasers-epileptic-14-year-old-girl-in-the-head - Cached - Similar -
8.
Taser through scull of epileptic girl - Zilvia.net Forums | Nissan ...
Originally Posted by pntonline.com Click here for picture A 14-year-old Tucumcari girl is recovering at an Albuquerque hospital after being ...
zilvia.net/f/.../266586-taser-through-scull-epileptic-girl.html - Cached - Similar -
9.
Image of Taser use lingers | Denton Record Chronicle | News for ...
May 18, 2008 ... Blake Dwyer, 17, of Shady Shores, had an epileptic seizure while at a ... screaming at Corinth police to stop shocking Blake with a Taser. ...
www.dentonrc.com/.../dws/.../DRC_Taser_0518.3dae5bb.html - Cached - Similar -
10.
Lawsuit Over Taser Use on Epileptic Settles for $90000
Jan 23, 2008 ... A lawsuit for tasing and punching a man who had just had an epileptic seizure has been settled for $90000. In addition.
www.uslaw.com/law_blogs/?item=30588 - Similar -
11.
YouTube - Epileptics Against Tasers


People with epilepsy are particularly vulnerable to taser strikes. Artist/ illustrator/activist Christine Lowe comments.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGXuaavNBoI -
12.
GilroyDispatch.com | City Pays $34000 to Settle Taser Case
City Pays $34000 to Settle Taser Case. Sep 4, 2007. By. Gilroy - City attorneys agreed to a $34000 settlement with John Davi, an epileptic who was Tased and ...
www.gilroydispatch.com/.../224442-city-pays-34000-to-settle-taser-case - Cached - Similar -
13.
Epileptic Youth Tasered 12 Times « SHADMIA'S WORLD
When I first heard about tasers it scared me. I have epilepsy and the I know that a seizure is caused by an electrical problem in the brain. ...
shadmia.com/2008/05/22/epileptic-youth-tasered-12-times/ - Cached - Similar -
14.
Epileptics Against Tasers petition to immediately suspend police ...
Nov 25, 2007 ... We the undersigned urge the Government of Canada and Canadian Chiefs of Police to suspend the use of TASER® weapons forthwith, ...
www.gopetition.com/petitions/epileptics-against-tasers.html - Cached - Similar -
15.
American Gestapo chief tasers 14-year old epileptic girl for ...
The Voice of Freedom, commentary, news, and information for the liberty-minded individual. Home of Patriot News Network!
www.freedomradio.us/.../5384-video-american-gestapo-chief-tasers-14-year-old-epileptic-girl-for-disobeying-his-orders - Cached - Similar -
16.
Police Taser Epileptic Having Seizure : Afarensis
Police Taser Epileptic Having Seizure. Category: Current Events Posted on: November 23, 2006 11:03 PM, by afarensis, FCD. I do not have epilepsy myself, ...
scienceblogs.com/.../2006/.../police_taser_epileptic_having.php - Cached - Similar -
17.
Detroit Police taser then jail epileptic having seizure ...
In Detroit, yet another example comes to light of how police are continually using their new torture toy, the taser. There, they tasered a man in the middle ...
www.notmytribe.com/.../detroit-police-taser-then-jail-epileptic-having-seizure-8705.html - Cached - Similar -
18.
NM Police Chief Tasers 14 Yr Old Girl With Epilepsy In The Head ...
Jul 8, 2009 ... (photo courtesy of KOAT) C&L has chronicled many instances of law enforcement officers misusing tasers in the past (some with deadly ...
crooksandliars.com/.../nm-police-chief-tasers-14-yr-old-girl - Cached - Similar -
19.
Man Tasered, Jailed & Commited as a Violent Psycho for 'Epileptic ...
epilepsyfoundation.org — A Michigan man with epilepsy, who, when experiencing a seizure, apparently was unjustifiably tasered, clubbed, arrested, ...
digg.com/.../Man_Tasered_Jailed_Commited_as_a_Violent_Psycho_for_Epileptic_Seizure?... - Cached - Similar -
20.
Epileptic police officers? Tazer training? - Yahoo! Answers
I got hit with a cell extraction shield today which didn't provoke a seizure ... Taser's do not cause seizures but you should let the instructor and other ...
answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid... - Similar -

Searches related to: epileptic taserpolice brutality tasers law enforcement tasers

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. Thanks, that's interesting.

I wonder how many of them were tonic clonic seizures vs. simple partial seizures or complex partial seizures. I would guess very few of them were tonic-clonic. Definitely seems to be a need for more medical education among officers. I appreciate the info and the links.

[uppityperson]

38. That was almost unbelievable. But anyone can claim anything on the internets

it was nasty

[Mythsaje]

42. I actually believe him...

He's been consistent throughout. The first time he popped up he tried to bully me into agreeing with him on something... I've found bullying behavior pretty common with most cops I've encountered.

Not a particularly good example of our law enforcement community, if so. Or, maybe, a particularly good example, depending on how you look at it.

:shrug:

[Lorien]

64. I think I know who you're talking about. Totally unhinged, goose stepping

authoritarian gun hugger...just another nut giving cops a bad name!

[asdjrocky]

9. Yep. I had it out with those guys just the other night.

Whatever a cop does is always ok. It's the cop code.

[fascisthunter]

56. and that's exactly what makes ALL cops look bad

until they start doing what is right, they will all be looked down upon. People may fear you, but they will never respect you.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

10. Most intelligent people will wait till an account comes out before they comment.

[Mythsaje]

15. Unarmed 76 y.o. man...

I don't need to know any more.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

16. That is such a complete story after all. We should probably execute the cops immediately.

:sarcasm:

[Mythsaje]

19. Or just fire the idiot.

Dumbass.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. I'm sure the union contract rules prohibit firing without an investigation.

[Mythsaje]

23. And why is it that the union representing armed people is so much more

powerful than just about any other?

Coincidence? Maybe...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Because they drive the politicians home after they pull them over for DUI.

[Mythsaje]

35. LOL...

And don't forget the donut bakers... I had a friend who was a night baker who knew all the local cops. Got pulled over on a DUI in Sacramento back in the mid-eighties and got an escort home. It pays to give away free donuts.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

36. We had a police Chief that told a bunch of recruits to pull over anyone for DUI.

Then he had the nerve to yell at one of them and reassign him after the new officer pulled the Chief over. He said, "I didn't mean me you dumbass."

[Mythsaje]

37. Hey, anybody is anybody, right? n/t

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. That's my understanding of the term.

[wroberts189]

31. The article has plenty of info including witnesses who said the cops were out of control.

Tractors are loud. Elderly have hearing problems. Witness statements. Connect the dots.


You think for a second this guy needed to be electrocuted?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

33. One statement from one witness.

I have no idea what transpired. It is quite possible the officers are power hungry authority freaks who overreacted. It is quite possible the elderly gentleman had hypoglycemia and they thought he was drunk. It is possible he was on his way to a town hall meeting to disrupt it. All of it is speculation until we actually find out some facts. Tasing any unarmed elderly person would seem on it's face to be excessive use of force, although if presented with good evidence I could be persuaded that it was justifiable.

David

[wroberts189]

39. "Several people who witnessed the event told the crowd police repeatedly shocked Grose"

Several people who witnessed the event told the crowd police repeatedly shocked Grose with a taser.

"Those two were the most out-of-control officers I've ever seen in my life," said Scott McWilliams, a witness who said he was shoved by one of the officers. "These two guys got to go."

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2009/08/11/national/a170451D34.DTL&tsp=1#ixzz0NxZZi3U4

[Mythsaje]

43. Ah, c'mon... Wait until the internal investigation by their friends find them not guilty...

And THEN you can make up your mind. Or let someone else (particularly someone in authority) make it up for you (the preferred method at arriving at "the truth").

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. One person is quoted making a negative comment about the police.

We know he was tased that isn't in dispute.

[wroberts189]

46. "several say he was repeatedly shocked" How many times you need? nt

[slampoet]

59. Nice straw man

[slampoet]

60. Nice straw man

[Th1onein]

17. SORRY, Dave. We've heard that shit a million times.

Doesn't fly this time, either. We should always wait until all the facts come out, then the story dies down and everyone forgets about it.

Why is the benefit of the doubt always supposed to be given to the cops? And why are they getting PAID after fucking up a little old man?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

18. They are on leave during the investigation. Their union probably arranged those rules.

I hope all is going well and you were able to quit smoking.

[Th1onein]

57. I quit and then I started again.

I'm quitting again, though. I'm not giving up until I get rid of these cancer sticks.

On another note, my business has doubled; one of the few that has profited off this recession. So, I'm going nuts, stressed out, and the cigs help.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. Hang in there. Congrats on the business.

[Raineyb]

51. Funny, how they always claim that and yet still find ways to make excuses

for out of order cops.

[MUAD_DIB]

28. Really? Who are those individuals?

[Mythsaje]

32. You know I can't actually identify them, right? n/t

[MUAD_DIB]

63. Nope. I didn't know that. Email me then.

[wroberts189]

50. You called it. nt

[whistler162]

53. Just like you it sounds like the Police Officers are

A**H***'s and should be fired!
!

[Matariki]

5. "Grose disobeyed orders"

That about sums it up. What it's all about and why tasers need to be taken out of the arsenal. Also why ALL communities need to have a civilian board overseeing the police.

[wroberts189]

6. This crap happens daily now. knr nt

[Historic NY]

7. They just keep issuing them w/o common sense training....

What ever happened to talking to people, verbal judo to get compliance. The Chief should prodcue the training memos & dept. guidelines on the use of them.

[asdjrocky]

11. Was the old man named John McCain?

Wondering...

[wroberts189]

12. No "Chief" it "probably" was not. nt

[DefenseLawyer]

14. Parading without a permit

[tularetom]

22. He "disobeyed orders"?

What the fuck are these two pieces a shit doing giving "orders" to people at a parade?

Gimme a fucking break.

These assholes should have been fired on the spot.

And the town needs to get rid of the chief too before he lets his scared little punk cops do something that gets the town sued for some sizeable bucks.

Personally I hope Mr Grose does sue them.

[Mythsaje]

24. There are plenty of people even here

who will argue that we're obligated to do whatever the nice officer tells us to... and if we don't, the consequences are on OUR heads.

[inna]

27. IN-SANE in the membrane. !!

[ohheckyeah]

29. There was a time when cops had to actually

talk to people and have some communication skills. Now, hell, they can just pull out a taser and zap whoever doesn't jump soon enough.

I wonder if there are any long term side effects from being tasered.

[tkmorris]

40. I don't know when that was

I'm 44 years old and it's pretty much been "Do what I say or get your ass whupped" from the police since my first interaction with them at 11 years old. I think it has a lot more to do with your perceived social status than any particular time period.

[Mythsaje]

41. I think it was on 50s television...

Very Reaganesque in that way.

[Kaleva]

58. Poster confused "The Andy Griffith Show" with reality

[Blue Diadem]

52. They're lucky they didn't kill him. He has a heart condition. It also appears a 9 yr old was driving

http://gazetteonline.com/blogs/news-hawk/2009/08/05/wyoming-police-use-taser-on-tractor-driver

Police said Grose disobeyed their orders and the tractor hit a police car.

But Grose said a 9-year-old boy – the son of an acquaintance – was actually behind the wheel of the 1958 John Deere tractor while Grose sat on a fender regulating its speed and clutch.

Grose said the tractor was pulling a four-wheeled wagon that carried three women sitting on chairs inside and was near the end of the parade route when the incident occurred. He said he would not discuss more specifics until he speaks to his attorney.
---------------

I've read the comments from the locals at the newspaper website,

http://www.trib.com/articles/2009/08/11/homepage_lead/doc4a816fb93e5ef853922200.txt

From what I can gather, the antique tractor was pulling a float in the parade and couldn't make a turn so they went around a barricade to go to the park where the tractors always go. I don't know when orders were disobeyed, most likely at the barricade because around here that's where the cops doing traffic control for our parades are located. There was a comment from someone saying they saw the police car flying down the road to get to the tractor. Apparently the cop pulled in front to cut off the tractor and the tractor hit the police car. It's said the tractor was going about 3-5 miles an hour.

Ya know, our town is smaller and thousands of miles away from Wyoming, but our parades sound so similar. Last year was our first year in the 20 we've been here where I've seen an out of control officer at our parade. I spent a day listening to that man scream and fling his arms and challenge people who didn't quite understand his traffic directions. Luckily, he's not a local and was brought in to assist and I hope he won't be back this year because this year they have tasers.

[WolverineDG]

54. Oh well, okay then, he hit a police car

off to the gas chamber for him! :sarcasm:

Looks like the cop had an extra helping of stupid in his morning coffee that day.

dg

[Blue Diadem]

55. Can't you just picture it. A cop speeding through to cut off a slow moving tractor!

Cripes, that guy would be tasering a lot of people at our parades.


extra helping of stupid in his morning coffee that day. :rofl: