Armed and Dangerous? (MSNBC-Obama NH Town Hall-Shows Man With Gun In Holster)

[kpete]

Source: Talking Points Memo

MSNBC: Developing...
Armed and Dangerous?

MSNBC just aired footage of the crowd gathering at the Obama town hall meeting on health care that's supposed to start later today in New Hampshire and pointed out one man in a group holding protest signs with a gun in a holster on his hip. Apparently not a law officer, but a civilian.

Whatever the concealed carry laws in New Hampshire, you have to figure guns not allowed at a presidential event. Right?



Late Update: Also important to note, the gun-toting protestor was holding a sign referencing the Jefferson quote: "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants." It's a well known quote from one of the archetypal founding fathers. And in itself it's part of the American heritage, something that echoes with Jefferson's always ambivalent and frequently dilettantish attitude toward political violence. But in the context of these townhall excesses and while carrying a firearm at a presidential event, it's quite a menacing statement, in as much as it is about the need to kill tyrants. -- jmm

Read more: http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/2009/08/armed_and_dangerous.php?ref=fpblg

---

Raw Story reporting:
Protester seen with gun outside Obama town hall
http://rawstory.com/08/news/2009/08/11/protester-seen-with-gun-outside-obama-town-hall/

[Binka]

1. Here we go

:wtf: this is beyond absurd.

[Sanity Claws]

2. Doesn't sound very concealed

Looks like a threat.

[kelly1mm]

15. It is my understanding

that he is "open carrying" meaning that he has his weapon in an exposed holster on his hip. This is not a violation of New Hampshire law. Open carry is allowed. If he was carrying concealed he would need a CWP. If he removes the weapon from the holster that would be brandishing.

All this being said, the Secret Service has a different mandate than State law enforcement and I fully support them handling this situation as they see fit.

[Barack_America]

3. How close can this man expect to get to Obama?

They should just drive the Beast directly into that auditorium. These people are f'ing nuts.

[Solly Mack]

4. K&R

[sharesunited]

5. When a man loves a gun, he doesn't want to be apart from it.

[aquart]

58. Then let him eat it.

[Cha]

6. There was a man acquitted a little while ago for

carrying a gun at an Obama campaign rally if I'm not mistaken.

President Obama and all the Dems are very brave to stand up to these brainwashed idtiots..they think they're so patriotic but they're traitors and raving lunitics whose heads are full of lies.

[Aviation Pro]

7. I would not want to be a member of the President's protection detail right now....

...these fucking c********** c**** are openly showing that they are willing to take a shot at the President and the level of containment must be frightening to the Secret Service. Either that or he is baiting the sniper teams to take a shot at them in some deluded attempt to become a martyr.

[Cha]

8. Imv, I would think that is

what they're trained for and they will contain the traitors.

[Xithras]

9. You can bet they'll have a sniper on him the moment Obama gets near.

Let's hope he doesn't develop a need to scratch his ass while Obama is outside of the Beast.

[Posteritatis]

47. They probably have one on him *now*

The Secret Service gets into town a day or two ahead of time on most presidential visits.

[sinkingfeeling]

10. If the Secret Service can barricade streets for 10 blocks around a president, this guy will be going

bye-bye soon. I was in NYC once when Bill Clinton was there and they closed the streets. There should be snipers on the roofs around where Obama is to speak. That's the way it was with George.

[Lost Jaguar]

11. The Jefferson quote...

...was also on Timothy McVeigh's T-shirt when he was pulled over shortly after the OKC bombing. I appreciate the sentiment; I feel that there's a degree of truth in it. Question is, how does one define tyranny? I don't think the last presidential election meets the criteria. President Obama hasn't declared himself dictator for life yet. Even his few signing statements are wimpy compared to El Busho's.

[TomClash]

12. I'd like to make him eat that gun nt

[glinda]

13. Have they arrested him yet? This is stupid.

[kelly1mm]

17. The problem is that he is open carrying which

is not a violation of New Hampshire law and thus a problem for state/local police in trying to do anything. The Secret Service will be able to do what they see fit though.

[glinda]

22. This dude is diverting the Secret Service from other duties. Confiscate.

[Posteritatis]

42. Dudes like this *are* the Secret Service's duties when the president's out and about. (nt)

[guitar man]

62. nope, don't confiscate

just have a Secret Service sharpshooter keep a red dot in the middle of his forehead. Taking his gun away is exactly what the lunatic fringe expects and the reaction would probably be "see, we told you, he's gonna take our guns away, series, this is hugh!!!11!1!

I'd bet my bottom dollar the guy isn't there with the intention to shoot anybody, he's there to try and create a rallying cry for his cohorts and feed the media a shiny ball to play with. It's not that gun I'd be worried about anyway, we can see it. It's the ones we cant see that are more scary.

[Windy]

29. "Kelly1mm", excuse me, but the presence of a firearm along with the threatening sign

is a threat against the president, or at least, probable cause and the nut should be arrested! You have been posting quite a few statements that are very sympathetic of the protestors today. Why is that? If you can condone what this man has done, they maybe you should have a pizza delivered!

[Kablooie]

31. You're right. The sign may push it into illegal 'threat' territory.

[kelly1mm]

37. If you read my posts (which apparently you have)

you will see that I said that the Secret Service should handle this as they see fit. I was pointing out New Hampshire law on open carry. I did not say anything about the sign which is a quote from Thomas Jefferson.

As for my other posts today (Sen. Specter's town hall) did you read the posts where I said the protesters seemed like they were dumber than a bag of hammers? My points on those posts were that the impression of casual viewers that only saw THAT TH would not have been that the protesters were thugs - just uninformed. I do admit that I seem to have a higher tolerance for political free speech than others here on DU though so if that means I deserve a pizza then so be it.

[kelly1mm]

45. I can't/won't/don't want to condone what this man has done.

I can and did point out that open carrying in and of itself is not a violation of New Hampshire state law.

[Kablooie]

19. Unfortunately, standing around outside with a gun, if you have a permit, isn't illegal.

Even if he is near a location where the president will appear.

I would think the Secret Service would have legal methods prepared to deal with this situation though.

[glinda]

24. So what happens when 50 people show up with guns. Will the SS have to put a person on each one?

Still stupid that they do not confiscate.

[Kablooie]

25. They may have the right to do so. I'm just saying it isn't a violation of law.

Unless there is a specific law dealing with firearms in proximity of the president.
Anyone know of such a law?

[Posteritatis]

46. The Secret Service gets final say anywhere near him, but I'm not sure about specific laws (nt)

[kelly1mm]

27. In New Hampshire you do not need a permit to open carry. NT

[Kablooie]

28. But you need a gun permit, don't you?

[S_B_Jackson]

33. No. (n/t)

[AtheistCrusader]

35. Nope.

New Hampshire is an interesting place.

You only need a permit for concealed carry, or to carry a loaded firearm in your vehicle. No permit required to possess or open carry.

[slackmaster]

66. Not in New Hampshire

Or California, or most other states.

:hi:

[Dinger]

14. Think This Guy Would Have Gotten to a repuke Town Hall Under * Toting A Gun And?

*(giggling murderer)

An anti-* sign? No fucking way. They need to haul this sorry SOB away, with cameras rolling. The sign IS a threat. People have been meeting with Dr. Tiller's murderer. I am scared for our president.

[kegler14]

16. Later Update:

The local police tell MSNBC that the man is legally carrying the gun, is nowhere near where the President will be, and is "under constant surveillance."--dk

[glinda]

40. Your SS money at work while they are short handed.

[aquart]

59. He's not near Obama? How far can his bullets travel?

I am so unimpressed by this hogwash. HE CARRIED A GUN TO MEET THE PRESIDENT????

[humbled_opinion]

18. These people are not Americans.

They are insane. We need to stand up and counter this insanity before it truly gets out of control. Could civil war happen in America again? thats nuts right? after the last 8 years my anger meter is pretty pegged. Should I go get a gun too? Brother against Brother.

[mlevans]

36. Nope.

Though it pains be to say it, they are indeed Americans, and our country has become the "land of the cretin, the home of the crazed". Therein lies the real tragedy.

[aquart]

60. I'm sorry. But they are citizens. And we have laws for them.

[krabigirl]

20. Why the hell are his rights so protected, while women, gays, atheists, etc are not..

so tired of the protection given to gun-owners in this country. Fine, have your guns, but NO< you shouldn't have the right to bring them to town hall meetings!!

[Old and In the Way]

21. It's an implied threat.

Think this would have been acceptable during a Bush protest? Given the venue, I'd treat him as a nutcase. This is the Right's version of 'freedom of speech': "I'll shoot you if you don't agree with me." Bunch of anti-democratic facist-thugs.

[BobRossi]

23. Limballs and his ilk.

Cowards with little dicks.

[Mz Pip]

26. THis guy is stupid beyond belief

Whatever the legalities may be he is a certified idiot to bring a weapon to an event with the POTUS. Any move he might make toward that gun and the Secret Service will be dealing with it faster than he could even imagine.

[YOY]

34. I thought the whole idea of Open Carry was self defense.

The place is loaded with Police Officers and Feds. He is expecting a rash mugging or a "teer-wrist" attack?

Or maybe he just sees cops and Feds as a threat...in which case he knows nothing of how this country works.

[S_B_Jackson]

39. And yet....

None of those police officers or Feds has any duty to protect him or any other citizen except the President (Secret Service), or those placed under arrest. I suspect that he's got a greater awareness of his rights under the law and constitution than do you.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bgno64]

43. He's doing it to prove a point

But it is indeed intended as a veiled, indirect threat against the President of the United States.

[Posteritatis]

48. If that's veiled, I'd hate to see blatant (nt)

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

38. He might not intend to use it, but someone else may --

With the gun being in the open like that it wouldn't be hard for someone else in the crowd to snatch it from the holster and do major damage before they're brought down. Unless the owner is carrying the weapon unloaded he's creating a dangerous situation for everyone in attendance and not just the POTUS. It's happened before.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

41. & soon to be RICH & POPULAR, on Fox and Fiends.

He will replace that moran plumbing idiot.

[tblue37]

30. His sign references the Jefferson quote but rephrases it as a *direct threat,*

saying that It is time to water the tree of liberty. . ..

[Akoto]

32. The Secret Service allowed this guy near?

Maybe he's not breaking any laws with open carry, but we're talking about the President's safety. This dude's mentality is quite clear, between the sign and the weapon.

[quiller4]

53. He is miles from where the president is speaking. n/t

[Demeter]

44. So Glad I No Longer Dwell in NH

It was a painful exile--too high a proportion of crazies in the population. It was embarrassing.

[kpete]

50. I give up on DU

if bringing a gun to a townhall is NOT news,
shit, kpete

[malaise]

51. Someone else asked that

on my thread about the man - of course it's news.

[quiller4]

52. Open carry is always legal in New Hampshire for all who have not

lost second amendments rights because of criminal conviction.

[aquart]

61. Threatening the life of the president isn't good for a conviction up there?

[slackmaster]

67. He didn't make any threat to anyone specific

:shrug:

[Tess I Guess]

54. Big deal, he's got a gun---Obama has tanks, missles and nukes

LOL that's supposed to be intimidating you see. And the Tim McVeigh-style message is also supposed to throw the fear into him. But he's not going to do anything. These rightwad blowhards don't actually employ the guns they say they have. They don't even do that for the unborn.

[Tess I Guess]

55. If they down to intimidation with guns

that shows how badly they're losing in the war of words. If you're resorting to guns and implied threats of violence, that's not strength, that's weakness.

[Tess I Guess]

56. Never could understand the gun nuts thinking

that a lousy gun can intimidate a government that has tanks, missles and nukes. I'm sure that's what Krispy Koresh thought too.

[nashville_brook]

57. holy crap.

[Tess I Guess]

63. Mike Castle is thanking his lucky stars

that Crazy Eileen didn't have a gun at HIS town hall meeting!

[Wednesdays]

64. K&R

:kick:

[zanne]

65. Just a yahoo who wants to show how "tough "he is. nt