"If it's alive, do you bury it?" Brownback called frozen embryos, 'HUMAN LIFE' and I, for one, am

[in_cog_ni_to]

sick of his SHIT.

Let me first state that I went through artificial insemination. I KNOW what it's like to want a baby and not be able to conceive. We also went through an adoption process, but a child never became available. I spent 19 years wanting a baby and it never happened until I was 36 years old and got pregnant naturally. I finally had the baby I always wanted and he was more than worth the way...he's a wonderful 14 year old now.

OK. That being said, Brownback is a HORSES ASS.

He stands on the Senate floor calling frozen embryos, "HUMAN LIFE", puts up posters of SNOWFLAKE baby, Hanna, and insists that we don't know if embryos are alive! He used the argument, "If you have a person and don't know if he/she is alive or dead, do you bury them not knowing for sure?" What a stupid freakin' argument. Their (religious right) argument use to be 'all of these embryos could be used by families wanting children, but are unable to...OR, the stupid made-up, 'Snowflake Baby' program would adopt the embryos and either implant them or have a funeral for the embryo.:eyes: A blastocyst is MICROSCOPIC! You cannot see it with the human eye. A 'funeral' is just the most idiotic, stupid freakin' thing I could think of for a bunch of microscopic cells. It's nothing but anti-abortion/anti-stem cell PROPAGANDA, IMCPO.

Brownback calls blastocysts, 'HUMAN LIFE.' MY question IS, if you take a blastocyst, lay it on a laboratory table, not nurtured in any way, will it live? Answer: NO, it will not. Brownback's (and other RW ideologues)ideological stance on this is just abhorrent. He will deny stem cell research that could possibly save millions of lives just because of his OUTRAGEOUS RELIGIOUS IDEOLOGY. If he cares so freakin' much about all these embryos, why isn't HE adopting them ALL himself? Where are all the RW wackos knocking down the laboratory doors to adopt them? I don't see millions of people lined up to adopt them, do you? These embryos will be TOSSED IN THE GARBAGE IF NOT USED! What happens to them is up to the man and woman who created them or paid to have them created by donor eggs and sperm...it shouldn't be up to the religious right! They have no RIGHT to tell ME or anyone else what to do with MY embryo! Who the hell do they think they are?!

Dick Durbin made a WONDERFUL point during today's debate....IF you support In-vitro fertilization, how can you MORALLY support throwing the embryos in the garbage? IF you do not MORALLY support embryonic stem cell research, how can you MORALLY support In-vitro fertilization? You must stop in-vetro if you are MORALLY against embryonic stem cell research. I AGREE! It's hypocritical. They would NEVER stop in-vetro though because religious REPUKES also have infertility problems and NEED it. There would be an overwhelming outcry if they tried to stop people from having the baby they have always wanted.

How do you feel about the RW religious IDEOLOGICAL argument aginst Stem Cell Research on blastocysts?

[Monkeyman]

1. I know one thing Stem Cell Research can help Veterans Like Lane Evans

[LisaM]

2. May I ask a question?

I had a friend who tried every means to get pregnant, but couldn't, and eventually adopted two little white babies. She would not adopt a black child, because, as she said, her family lived in the South and she didn't want to go home with a black baby. You say that a baby never became available, but when I see all the kids, including babies, in foster care, I'm not sure how that can be.

[RC Quake]

8. Well, for us it was our age.

My spouse & I also tried for years to no avail. We went further than just Artificial Insemination, though. We did EVERYTHING humanly and technologically possible. By the time we decided to move on to adoption, we were not only financially, mentally, and physically broken...we were too old according to the "state" adoption agencies. Sure, if we wanted to fork out another $50,000 for private adoption, that was an option.

Adoption should not be this difficult and discriminatory. There are plenty of children that we could have brought into our home and given them a wonderful life filled with love. BUT, we are just too old I guess to love a child.

[vankuria]

13. Hope this helps

Children in foster care are not necessarily up for adoption. They've been taken away from their parent(s) for whatever reason and put in the custody of the foster care system. The parent(s) has to go through a series of training classes to get their kids back. Some do and the children are returned however, in some instances the parents will loose custody and the children are then put up for adoption. In these cases if the kids are lucky the foster parent can adopt them if they choose. Foster parents usually are given preferance when the child is put up for adoption, since by the that time the child is attached to them and established in their family.

Many children, by the time the foster care system terminates the parental rights are older, they may have other siblings they can't be seperated from, or they could have deep emotional problems. Also many kids entering foster care have physical handicaps that could make them difficult to adopt.

Many folks that wish to adopt are looking for white newborns. I'm sure they also come into the foster care system, however by the time all the legal rangling with the natural parents is over, the kid is no longer the newborn folks wish for.

Our 3 godchildren are former foster children, adopted by their foster mother. She wanted very much to adopt many of the children she cared for over the years, unfortunately most ended up back with their natural parents or a blood relative. It can be a heart wrenching experience, being a foster care provider. You can't help but love the foster children, you couldn't do the job if you did't. In my opinion the system doesn't always work in favor of the kids.

[LisaM]

16. Yes, I know that what you say is true

I just know that white babies get snapped up as soon as they're born, and wonder what happens to the rest of them.

[in_cog_ni_to]

25. Well, our adoption attempt was back in the early 70s..1973-74.

We waited for a baby and when one never came, we took the funds to try a fairly NEW procedure...artificial insemination. Why did a baby not become available? I have NO CLUE. Maybe we weren't wealthy enough? Who knows?

[blondeatlast]

3. I've often thought the same thing. If they are so damn convinced it is a "life,"

how can you possibly approve of it's eventual destruction, rather than use it to give life to another?

Sadly, simple biological science means nothing to the RRR. They live and breathe for the agenda. Nothing else matters.

[krispos42]

4. If there was a fire in a fertility clinic...

Would you risk your life to save a nurse trapped in an office, or hundreds of fertilized embryos stored in a nearby freezer?

Would the trapped nurse scream "Forget about me, save the embryos!!!

I don't think so.

Would Brownback choose the embryos over the nurse?

I don't think so, either.

Ergo, he's full of shit.

[fudge stripe cookays]

5. As someone living with multiple sclerosis,

I get so blinded by hate and disgust for these people that I cannot speak.

It sounds terrible, but I want most of these assholes to be stricken with something chronic (diabetes, MS, Parkinsons) so they can see what the rest of us live with every day, and why their thinking is so selfish and asinine.

Better to cater to the wingnuts than actually cause any change for good in the world, right boys? :eyes:

[Gelliebeans]

42. You stated how I feel myself

I want them (rabid right) to feel what it is like to walk a day in our shoes. I want their whole lives to be turned upside down with the constant struggle of doctors appointments, hospital stays and the pain and discomfort. Then and maybe then they will see that our lives are valuable to our family and friends and we just want a chance like anyone else.

I am tired of a small group of people crushing the hopes of millions. :grr:

Sometimes the only way some of these people begin to understand is when they have a loved one stricken with illness before they get off their soapbox and that is pathetic. They are so self centered and rightous and it makes me sick. :puke:

[Cleita]

6. In that case with his reasoning we should be burying all

spent sperm and eggs discarded in menstruation. These people are really ridiculous. The so-called "snowflake babies" have the evolutionary status of a sponge, if they are even that high up the evolutionary scale.

[sellitman]

7. Question: Has Brownback ever "whacked off"?

If so why didn't he adopt himself on the spot?


My question is JUST AS STUPID as Brownbacks statements.


Wow...just wow.

[blondeatlast]

9. Od course not--the good people of the RRR would NEVER do such a thing.

He's not blind, so he can't possibly have done such a wicked, evil thing.

:sarcasm: of course

OTOH, he's so uptight it's possible he hasn't.

[Kutjara]

12. Every Sperm is Sacred

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8

DAD:
There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

GIRL:
Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can't be found.

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

MUM:
Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

MEN:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
WOMEN:
If a sperm is wasted,...
CHILDREN:
...God get quite irate.

PRIEST:
Every sperm is sacred.
BRIDE and GROOM:
Every sperm is good.
NANNIES:
Every sperm is needed...
CARDINALS:
...In your neighbourhood!

CHILDREN:
Every sperm is useful.
Every sperm is fine.
FUNERAL CORTEGE:
God needs everybody's.
MOURNER #1:
Mine!
MOURNER #2:
And mine!
CORPSE:
And mine!

NUN:
Let the Pagan spill theirs
O'er mountain, hill, and plain.
HOLY STATUES:
God shall strike them down for
Each sperm that's spilt in vain.

EVERYONE:
Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaaaaate!

[opihimoimoi]

10. This is what happens when we hire sickos to decide our fate...there has to be a system to prevent

assholes like him from gaining public office....

Vote Stupid and get STUPID.....

[Beaverhausen]

11. I want to introduce him to my friend, Jerome, who has Muscular Dystophy

Jerome is very much alive, but can only move his mouth and fingers. He needs a ventilator to breathe. He can't move any other body parts, although he does still have feeling everywhere.

Stem cell research has already shown that it can be effective for MD patients. People like Jerome have the right to every chance there is for science to discover a cure for these diseases.

[ProfessorGAC]

17. Yeah. That Wouldn't Exactly Be Burying Those Cells, Would It?

His analogy is silly. The cells would be used to help other people live. That's not burying a living thing. It's transplanting life. That would seem to be a good thing.
The Professor

[Madspirit]

47. Beaverhausen

Man, when I read stories like about your friend, I really want to do things to Bush that would be illegal to even say here. (Not that I would...any RW spies...)
Lee

[Beaverhausen]

48. And Jerome is very much aware of what is going on with this issue

there is nothing wrong with his mind at all.

Sadly, it's probably too late for him to have any nerve regeneration. He is 31 and on borrowed time. But he has a younger brother who also has MD and might be helped tremendously by research using stem cells.

[11 Bravo]

14. If it's alive, I tend not to bury it, but in Brownback's case I'm willing to make an exception.

I would bury him face-down with his ass exposed. Then my kids could use him to park their bikes. It would be the first useful purpose the miserable sonofabitch ever served.

[sellitman]

15. I'm sort of glad.

That my imagination isn't as active as yours.

That mental picture I can do without.

[sandnsea]

18. Ladies, turn in your tampons!!!

Must examine each and every one for evidence of "human life" and have proper burial and mourning.

I am so so so so sick of this ignorant shit.

[SoCalDem]

41. And save that cardboard tube.. Makes a suitable "burial container"

Just use a sharpie to write the date on the side and add it to the rest in the back yard..right next to the departed pets.

[never cry wolf]

19. That POS was on Washington Journal this morning.

Same arguments. Harkin was on an earlier segment and made the point that of the 400,000 blastocysts available a total of 130 have been "adopted." That's .03% folks. He also correctly pointed out that many couples may not want theirs adopted.

[A Simple Game]

20. Apparently it's alright to kill them if you aren't going to use them.

From your post; 'Snowflake Baby' program would adopt the embryos and either implant them or have a funeral for the embryo.

Either implant them or have a FUNERAL FOR THE EMBRYO? I thought they were Human Life? They don't bury them alive do they. Seems to me, in their own eyes, they are committing murder.

[blondeatlast]

44. Ooh, good point! *****

:thumbsup:

[TlalocW]

21. I've asked cosnervative friends

What they would do if they were in a fertility clinic during a fire. In one corner, are 14 blastocysts and/or frozen embryos in an easy to carry case. In another corner is a two-year-old. You'll only be able to save the case or the kid before everything, including you, the case, and the kid goes up in flames. Do you:

1. Save the case and claim you saved 14 humans and lost 1
2. Save the kid and if so, how do you rationalize letting 14 human lives die at the expense of 1.

The smell of neurons frying normally follows.

TlalocW

[tandot]

22. If it's alive, do you bomb the shit out of it? Do you execute it for crimes?

I don't see anything about the death penalty on his website.

He surely must be against the Iraq war (or any war for that matter) and against the death penalty :sarcasm:

[Ganja Ninja]

23. It's been pointed out time and time again that these blastocysts

are going to be disposed of whether or not they are used for stem cell research but the right wing never let logic stand in the way of their exploiting an issue to gin up a few votes.

[in_cog_ni_to]

26. That's why he tries to claim they're HUMAN LIFE....still alive.

"Would you bury someone if you didn't know for certain they are dead?"

His rhetoric makes me want to PUKE. What an IDIOTIC argument. I wonder how many hours per day they spend thinking up new BOGUS arguments against embryonic stem cell research? They are so pathetic.

[formercia]

24. Brownback says Life begins at Conception

I say it begins when the kids leave home for good.


What do you expect from that Opus Dei asshole?

[Daedelus76]

27. adopting embryos is just creepy

isn't it? I know alot of people who feel this way, but it never seems to bug die-hard pro-lifers. Just proves they live in a different plane of reality. To most people an embryo is not a person, and you don't have to be a member of NARAL or NOW to realize that. It is a very mainstream belief on the subject.

Personally, I don't like the thought of in-vitro fertilization. I think the whole thing is wierd and bizarre, and the desire to procreate in a world full of billions of people, is really quite irrational. But that's just on a gut level, and I wouldn't be willing to stop anybody from getting the procedure either- it's their right. If we are going to do it, why not use the medical waste in research?

[in_cog_ni_to]

28. Adopting embryos is just plain ole BIZARRE, but that's how the RWers

whip up their base. You have to understand...Brownback is on the same plane as Rick Santorum who took his premature, DEAD baby home so his children could hold it and 'bond' with it. Now THAT is creepy and bizarre. These people are not normal in any sense of the word.

Welcome to DU, BTW! :hi:

[Zookeeper]

29. I have a child with Type 1 Diabetes....

so, you can imagine how I feel about it.

Dick Durbin made the point that I argue all the time. If you support in-vitro fertilization, it's completely hypocritical to oppose stem cell research.

The other thing that enrages me is the "protecting innocent life" argument (cells in a petri dish), as if my daughter wasn't an innocent life when she had to start getting poked with needles and lancets, ten times a day at the age of FOUR. :grr: :nuke:

Thanks for posting! :hi:

BTW, everyone please note the difference between the two Senate bills. SB s.5 is the good one and will increase funding. SB 30 is the bad one, disguised as a good one, that will actually eliminate stem cell research. (Co-sponsored by Norm Coleman.)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ralph-dittman/expanded-stem-cell-resear_b_45228.html

I've already called my scumbag Senator Coleman regarding this, and he's blathering on C-Span about it right now.

[blondeatlast]

30. StemPAC called S30 a "warm fuzzy" for W's photo-op. Pretty much nailed it!

How's the younger Keeper doing? I know It's probably too late for SCR to help me, but I work now for so the little ones have a better life!

[Zookeeper]

33. Hi, blondeatlast!

Thanks for asking. She is fourteen now and we've had a bumpy few years. She always had an incredible spirit about her illness, but when she hit middle-school she started feeling burned-out from dealing with it. Her lack of control and high blood sugars means she gets ketones a lot and misses too much school.

I want to see her (and you) freed from this disease!

:hug:

[blondeatlast]

34. Oh, I can relate to that; I did exactly the same thing.

When I was in that age group we couldn't test glucose at home, either.

It's very common in kids that age, as I understand it (I thought I was the only kid going through it!)

Tell her I'm thinking of her--and the Senate is fighting the good fight for her today! :hi:

[Zookeeper]

36. Thanks, B.

:hug:

[in_cog_ni_to]

32. I'm listening to the fool right now. I hope Franken sends him packing in '08!

It's mind-boggling how these people can be so INDIFFERENT to the LIVING and the SUFFERING of children, like your daughter, the elderly who suffer from Alzheimer's or people living with Parkinson.....because of Ideology. It pisses me off to no end.:grr:

[Zookeeper]

38. I think Franken waited until he could run against....

Coleman. It's a grudge match and I'll be in Franken's corner.

:hi:

[EFerrari]

31. This is a cover for protecting Big Pharma.

That isn't the "culture of life" it's the "culture of kickbacks". :shrug:

By the same logic, he shouldn't shower because he might dislodge living cells. What an idiotic jerk.

[blondeatlast]

35. "He shouldn't shower..." LOL! I needed that laugh so badly.

I can't even watch the hearings, it is so important to me if I heard Coleman and Brownback I'd just go ahead and do myself in.

I'm on pins and needles over this--I've worked so hard for it. Thanks for the sorely needed chuckle!

[blondeatlast]

37. This is what they are voting on--please, kick & recommend this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=627822&mesg_id=627822

And make certain you voice your support for S5 ONLY--not the other bill. I won't even mention th name of the other bill, just that StemPAC xalls it W's "warm fuzzy" that does nothing to expand funding for research on blastocysts.

[in_cog_ni_to]

39. I've heard many say they are voting for S30 AND S30. What's up with that?

WHY are they doing that? Do you know?

[blondeatlast]

43. I'm guessing sheer ignorance. As StemPAC says: "Does your Senator think you're a moron?"

Apparently a lot of them do, as SC30 puts further restrictions on blastocyst research.

Check out their homepage--very smart:
http://www.stempac.com/

I'd have more respect for anyone who voted no for S5 and yes for S30--at least they are true to their beliefs. But to have the same vote on both bills either way strikes me as posturing, lazy, ignorant, or more likely, all three.

[yurbud]

40. GOP should work on in vitro ban if they are so worried about dead embryos

but they know some of their rich constituents probably use the process too and don't want to offend them.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

45. I finally got an answer from a radical: they want to ensure their savior will be born.

I asked him, "If you have faith in god, why worry about whether or not your savior will be born? Surely, god will deliver. Yes?" He responded, "Because the devil is in control of man and man will kill our savior."

:scared:

Does that make any sense? I must add that this man has clearly had a difficult life: divorce, disability, borderline poverty.

Still,...YIKES!!!! What extremely irrational thinking these people possess. It's really frightening,...and terribly sad that they are THAT desperate.

[TZ]

46. If its alive do you bury it, eh? What about bulbs?

Aren't those alive? Don't you bury them and other plants. Wait plants aren't alive right?
:sarcasm:


Seriously saying a zygote(the first division of the fertilized egg) is a baby is moronic. There are more cells in the tissue cultures used to grow up virus for testing. Oh no save the baby tissue cultures!!!:crazy: