If a Dem controlled House, Senate and WH can't even succeed on the POS Public Option, I'm out.

[Barack_America]

They should have more than enough votes to ram this thing through without an ounce of Republican support.

Health care is THE great moral issue our country will face this generation. If Dems don't have our backs on this, they don't have our back on anything.

If they are so beholden to their corporate overlords that they can't even throw the American people a bone, with the public option, then fuck 'em.

If they want voters registered and doors knocked, they can call the CEO's of Blue Cross/Blue Shield, Aetna et al and ask them to help.


For reference:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6260839

[msongs]

1. prostitutes do what prostitues do best, sell out for cash or credit lol nt

[Barack_America]

3. And I volunteered over 500 hours of my time for this?

Guess I'm the chump.

I wish I could write a letter of apology to all those voters I registered, with the promise of change.

:thumbsdown:

[nashville_brook]

17. i think there's a lot of frustration in the activist "corps" right now as we see...

our own words being turned against us. i feel out about the letter of apology. there were lots of people i talked to who needed to hear that Obama was "different" -- that he wasn't going to abandon us after the election.

i think that now is the time to be very vocal about where we stand on this -- now, before final agreements are made. who knows, maybe things will turn around during the rest of recess/August. one thing's for sure: nothing is going to change if we don't let our voices be heard. we need to be organizing a giant march on the Capitol -- march right up to the offices of "our" lawmakers and DEMAND this "change" thingy we've been promised.

such an action would give them political cover, which is the only thing we have to provide since we can't match the dollars raised by Pharma, Insurance Companies and the rest.

[newtothegame]

57. Yeah, but you got to be part of making "history." n/t

[Aragorn]

4. some people might take that wrong

but I don't think I actually know any prostitutes

[eridani]

48. Please, let's not confuse whores and sex workers here

There is a very important difference between a whore and a sex worker. Namely, that there are things that sex workers will refuse to do for any amount of money.

[Deja Q]

10. Cash, yes, but if you tell them where to stick that credit card they may not be so happy...

:yoiks:

[villager]

2. actually, the effects of climate change will trump it, but I agree with your point

Other than the sole virtue of "not being batshit crazy like Republicans," what possible good comes from supporting a self-castrating Democratic party?

In some sense, continually supporting them delays the actual "change we can believe in."

We will know, pretty definitively, whether the Dems are worthy of any remaining support, or not...

And yes, let the DLCers do all the "grassroots work" they so eagerly, otherwise exploit and take advantage of...

[Barack_America]

7. Good point regarding climate change.

There really are two great moral issues we're facing.

But with health care, the Dems control DC, the people are begging for it, what else do they freaking need? Why don't they just put their price out there and at least give us a chance to outbid the corporations?!?!

[Hippo_Tron]

21. I think you underestimate the value of not being batshit crazy

President Gore, for example, would not have invaded Iraq. Even if the rest of his presidency had looked exactly like Bush's (which it would not have) we would be far better off because of that alone.

[villager]

28. except now that we've crossed the verge of batshit crazy

(with the ongoing compliance of the Democrats, as enablers, btw...)

and are into the deep shit, we need more than just genteel fecklessness as a political stance...

[Peregrine Took]

5. Green Party here I come.

[Aragorn]

6. haiku contest

This was on FB pages today. About Sarah but I decided to be fair (a lot of bible-thumping Reubs from my old HS) so:

Obama for change
You can believe in or not.
So far I say not.

[qazplm]

8. yes

that's a great idea, if the group you want to succeed at something, the group with the best possible chance of doing so, doesn't have enough folks who think like you, you should leave it, because, well, I have no idea, but it makes you feel good.

Many will instead stay, fight, build, cajole, yell, or do whatever it takes to move things in the right direction. How can folks like you get mad at Obama and others for not fighting hard enough if you won't stay to fight at all?

[Barack_America]

11. I gave them 500+ hours of my time and hundreds of my dollars for health care reform.

I've already done my fighting.

Do I not have a right to expect some return on my investment? Or should I just accept that I was outbid by the insurance companies because that's how capitalism goes?

Besides, there is no "fighting" to be done on this. Dems already have the numbers, thanks to grassroots efforts. Folding on this represents their willingness to put lobbyist money over American interests and nothing else.

[AllentownJake]

30. B-I-N-G-O

I was laughing at OFA when they wanted me to have a "Healthcare fair" back in June. Clueless fucking morons.

[bvar22]

16. Some suckers NEVER know when to leave.

You see them on street corners in New York "playing" 3-Card Monty.
They almost win every time.

You see them in the Casinos playing the rigged Poker Machines.
They almost win all the time....just enough to keep pumping in the money.

You see them at the low rent carnivals playing the sucker games....almost winning until they're broke.

After 49 years of political activism dedicated solely to the Democratic Party, and after 29 years of betrayal and heartbreak (Reagan Democrats/DLC) from the "Centrist" Democratic Party....if they are successful at fucking up Health Care Reform, it'll be time to leave.

The last REAL Democratic President was LBJ.

[AllentownJake]

31. We did fucking fight

8 months of mother fucking fighting. Work 40 hours than work another 40-60 hours.

What did they (OFA) want us to do in June...plan a "Healthcare Fair" OFA is a giant fucking joke. Healthcare fair, when the GOP is accusing us of planning to kill the elderly. He brought a spork to a knife fight.

What the hell did the morons think was going to happen the insurance industry was going to roll over and say, well you have a healthcare fair.

We have had poor leadership from the grassroots level because our President is being too nice.

[ProSense]

34. "8 months of mother fucking fighting" and still spreading misinformation

about the bills

[AllentownJake]

35. The comment was on OFA and lack of leadership

and yes, that is what they wanted...Healthcare fairs.

I guess they didn't see giant multinational corporations fighting dirty.

Of course you wouldn't want to comment on what I actually said.

Your on ignore don't bother replying to any more of what I write. Your a waste of time.

[truedelphi]

60. Maybe because for many of us, Obama sold us out on Day Number one

by appointing the very people who brought about the economic collapse to handle the economic collapse. Without putting together any type of legit oversight, without putting in any stipulation as to what could be can be with money offered to Wall St etc.

Every time I see Geithner's scummy little face, I cringe. This is not the change I could believe in - Obama handing over our economy to this scum sucker whose track record on lasting recovery is pathetic. Just ask the Japanese - he ruined their recovery also.

[Raster]

9. There may be two political parties in Washington, D.C....

but they both feed at the same trough and are fed by the same corporate masters.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

13. Opposames. Dems are just a bit more kinder and gentler.....

[dgibby]

37. Democans or Republicrats.

Same/same, and we lose, no matter what they call themselves!

[ejpoeta]

12. two sides of the same coin. they say what we want to hear and then do nothing

and try to blame someone else for it. There is no reason they can't get this done.... NONE!!! except they don't want to because the gravy train won't like that... and they wants them some of that gravy train.

[grytpype]

14. The problem is the Senate.

The Senate is undemocratic and gives rural (i.e. conservative) states disproportionate representation. It would take a constitutional convention to change that.

So go vote for Elves, or whatever, it's not because Democrats don't want to solve the health care crisis. They do, but there are structural problems with our system of government that make it difficult and nearly impossible to do.

[Barack_America]

15. Democrats alone have enough votes.

We can't blame this on the Republicans when we don't need them to pass it.

The problem is the Senate, yes, but it's not disproportionate representation for Republicans. It's the fact that many Democrats, too, work on a "cash for representation" basis and the bidding is open only to corporate America.

[Hippo_Tron]

22. If the wrath of your constituents is great enough, you will go against big donors

The problem is that these people don't really fear their constituents because their constituents aren't speaking. In some cases, like Ben Nelson, the constituents that are speaking want them to vote against reform because many of them are employed by health insurance companies.

The people speaking the loudest are the teabaggers and the astroturf.

[alsame]

24. Someone was talking about this on either Countdown or Rachel last

week and pointed out that some Senators (i.e. Max Baucus) have the power to block reform or hold things up even though they represent a relatively small proportion of the US population.

[dorkulon]

18. You can bet Tom Delay and Bill Frist could have got this thing passed.

Hell, they could get ANYTHING passed.

[Autumn]

29. You bet your ass they

would have.

[Barack_America]

41. Indeed they would have.

Though I disagree with the GOP's policies, the discipline among their caucus is worthy of respect.

[KakistocracyHater]

19. gather enough signatures in every state to put on state ballots

THAT would tell them what the people want

[Thickasabrick]

20. The final version will not be what we want. But, it will be more than

what we would have had if McCain had been elected. I try to see things "half full". I can't just abandon the democratic party - the alternative is just not acceptable.

[Umbral]

23. If only it were half full. Unfortunately, it's almost empty. nt

[natrat]

50. wrong , it will be a huge boondogle and make a bad system worse

[goclark]

54. I thought we were not to push leaving the Democratic Party

if we are the Democratic Underground. :shrug:

[Barack_America]

55. Ah, but what if the Democratic Party leaves us?

:shrug:

Like I said downthread, I will stay a Democrat and I will continue to support and vote for Democrats, if I can find any. But a party bought and paid for by lobbyist money is not worthy of calling itself the "Democratic Party", imo.

[goclark]

56. It's called America and no one said it would be easy

to change our government.

No one said that -- I have yet to hear of anyone that could get elected that could walk into this hive of bees and get more done.

Love Dennis but ..
Love all of the other contenters but...

I'll stick with supporting my Party and letting my voice be heard in a positive way.

No Palin for me!

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

25. If we wanted RomneyCare, we would have voted for Romney! nt.

[andym]

26. If the Dem Senate caucus would agree to block any Republican filibuster, then .....

Problem is that the more conservative Dems and Lieberman (I) may not agree.

Clearly, the Democratic party is overall a moderate party. The Reagan era so moved the country to the right that "liberal" is still used pejoratively by some (notice that "progressive" is used much more even on DU). For all the racism, and other problems the country was more open to liberalism in the 60s when the Great Society passed than today.

The extent to which health care and climate is really reformed will determine how far leftward the country can be moved. I urge everyone to spend the maximum time possible urging Congress to do the "right thing"(tm).

[AllentownJake]

27. This is a damn shame

Shame to see you coming to the same conclusions I am.

[Barack_America]

39. Yes. That is a damn shame.

It's a minor pity if they disappoint me, but if they disappoint you after all you've given them....that's a damn shame.

I really didn't expect to see them fold so quickly, so willingly.

[AllentownJake]

40. I had two issues

Health Care and Financial Services.

It appears neither will get the reform required.

:shrug:

I knew this was coming when in June I saw their Health care grassroots campaign.

Needless to say, I knew they were setting themselves up for failure.

[Uzybone]

32. Green, GOP or tuning out completely?

backboneless democrats are almost as big a problem as the influence of corporations.

[AllentownJake]

33. Seems to me they go hand and hand n/t

[Barack_America]

42. I'll still be a Dem...

It's the corporate shills in Washington who will lose the right to call themselves "Dems".

And I will still vote for and work for Dems, if I can find any who are running for office.

[deaniac21]

36. All politicians are owned. Don't ever forget that.

[Raster]

38. As long as lobbying is allowed and lobbyists continue to wield the cash,

Congress will always be for sale to the highest bidder. And the highest bidder and the main recipient of Congressional largess will ALWAYS be the corporate plutocracy.

[deaniac21]

61. The only problem with that is a little thing called free speech.

[Raster]

62. Lobbying--in a stretch--might be free speech if there wasn't mountains of cash.

But since there are mountains of cash, it's called bribery. Corporate cash pimps buying Congress and it's a free speech issue?:sarcasm:

[Gold Metal Flake]

43. If a Dem controlled House, Senate and WH can't succeed, it's on purpose.

They can do this if they want to.

[Barack_America]

44. That is an excellent point.

I was being too kind. If they don't get it done, it's not failure, it's betrayal.

[autorank]

45. They never intended to suceed

They just put it in because so many people wanted it in, knowing it would be yanked at the last minute.

Big mistake thought. When they craft a plan that makes things worse, there's a ready made alternative that
was part of the debate and well considered - one that people liked a great deal despite the lack of focus
on it by the legislative and media types.

[leftstreet]

47. +1

Yes, they're all 'chess players' but unfortunately we're the pawns.

[Barack_America]

52. That is the unfortunate conclusion that I'm coming to as well.

That the numbers are telling them there's no way health care can be "budget neutral" and they think the deficit will be a bigger political disadvantage than health care an advantage.

So die it shall, along with millions of Americans.

[Krashkopf]

46. I'm right there with you.

I joined the Democratic Party (after 27 years as a left-leaning GDI - GOD-Damned Independent) in 2004 because I felt it was necessary to "choose sides" against the truly evil Neo-Conservatives who had taken over the Republican party.

Along with a lot of other very dedicated people, I worked my butt off for 5 years. I became a Democrat Party Precinct Captain, and together, we Democrats turned "Dumbfuckistan" purple, if not blue. (Here in Colorado, we flipped both houses of our state legislature, and our Congressional delegation, from majority (R) to majority (D). We elected 2 (D) U.S. Senators, and a (D) Governor). We helped elect huge (D) majorities in the U.S. House and U.S. Senate, and of course, we took back the White House and elected Barack Obama.

I gave the (D) Party my campaign contributions, and all of my efforts, because I truly wanted to believe that it was a party that represented the interests of "We, the People" over the interests of Big Business, and the richest among us.

With all of the power we have given it, if this Democratic Party cannot (will not) deliver on a progressive idea as simple and straight-forward as a truly universal, truly comprehensive PUBLIC HEALTH CARE option, it can ONLY be because the Democratic Party (and in particular its "Blue Dog" wing) has become so thoroughly corrupted by the money lavished on them by the Insurance Industry, and "Big Pharma," that it has ceased to represent the interests of the American people.

I declare, here and now, that if the health care reform package that comes out of Congress does not contain a true, strong, PUBLIC OPTION, I WILL submit my resignation from the Democratic Party the day President Obama signs the watered-down "reform" into law.

Krashkopf

[natrat]

49. where ya gonna go? to jail if you don't buy their scam insurance

[Barack_America]

53. 1. I'm lucky enough to have insurance through my employer....

It's shitty insurance with a deductible so high that I can't use it for preventative care outside of a yearly physical, but I'm insured and glad for that.

2. I'm marrying a Canadian in 5 days. A better insurance policy, one might say. ;)

[Blasphemer]

59. Lucky you! Congratulations! nt

[BigBearJohn]

51. I am done with the Democratic Party if they don't pass the public option. End of story.

[Lorien]

58. Well, health care, war and climate change are THE great moral issues of our

time, and zip is being done about any of them.