"Is that what you think of me?" Make the debate personal.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

The next time someone I know goes off on a teabaggerish rant about health care reform, I will say:

"Is that what you think of me? Do you really think I want a law requiring the euthanization of my own dad or my friend's disabled child? What kind of a monster do you think I am? Seriously, do you think anyone who has elderly family members wants that? And I'll be old, too, before much longer. Do you think I'm crazy enough to want a system that could euthanize ME? Come on, look me right in the eye and tell me I want to kill old people. Then tell me why you think I want to live under Communism. Tell me why you think I, as a citizen and a taxpayer, want a system that does all the terrible things you say this will do.

Go ahead. I'm listening."

It could be an interesting discussion.

[Raven]

1. Brilliant...and basic! Being one of those "old farts" I could also add:

do you really think I would support a bill that would lead to my own death?

[gristy]

2. Wow. That would leave any teabagger speechless.

:thumbsup::thumbsup:

[billyoc]

3. Oh, I DO make it personal. I say "Yes, that is exactly what I want, to kill old people and babies."

"Because I just don't like them."

I rarely debate for more than 10 seconds.

[cliffordu]

12. HAHah ah aHAHAH a Ha

I like the old people smoked like a carne asada....

We call it Granpa Asada.

[billyoc]

15. You can also get an exemption if you're gay, or if you renounce Christianity.

:evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

17. HAHah a haH a HaHaH aHah

I'm going to start telling these stupid fuckers that.

:rofl:

[billyoc]

19. I can make them speak in tongues on command.

:rofl:

[cliffordu]

20. too bad they won't drink paint and dance with rattlesnakes on command....

:rofl:

[seabeyond]

4. exactly. i did this in 2004 when kids in christian school, hearing them bash kerry, liberals

as non christians and murders and all

i would ask, why do you hate me? sittin in christian school, that our family has been nothing but good and friendly adn kind. would knock them back. response

you arent the same. or except you

i would say, ... no, that is me,. that is exactly me. why do you hate me.

i wouldnt let them off

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I got to thinking that speaking objectively and abstractly about actual facts

is getting us nowhere at all. But maybe bringing up the sheer lunacy of the assumption that ANYONE would actually want a system that does all the horrible things they have been led to believe it does might have some small impact on some people.

[inthebrain]

6. Or you could just tell them to "fuck off"

My favorite two words in the English language.

Expresses so much in so few words.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. Yes, it's satisfying, but it doesn't change minds.

I want to get the truth to these people, and while that might be nearly impossible, telling them to fuck off makes it completely impossible.

[inthebrain]

9. Neither does the advice you are suggesting

sometimes you have to allow people to find their own way. Not much you can say or do to change that.

Most of these people are convinced that the Left is some alien invader much like you would see in the twilight zone from the 50's. They aren't advancing an idea they are spewing hatred against a group of people.

If you ask them, "Is that what you really think of me?" they are gonna say, "YES!!!" and add a lot more.

Especially after getting pumped up on Oreilly, Limbaugh, Beck or Severine for a few hours. I grew up in a family full of these fuckwads. Not to mention a whole neighborhood full of em.

The best you can do is advance an idea and acknowledge skepticism that's viable. Not shit that based in hokey crap bullshit. I usually acknowledge the fear of MANDATORY PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE cause it's what we have in this state.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

18. Of course not everyone will be persuaded.

The most frightened and gullible are probably beyond reach, and I guess all you can do with them is roll your eyes and walk away. I'm talking about people who have heard or read things (chain e-mails, Faux "News," etc.), and kind of believe the crap but haven't gone completely off the wingnut deep end. I have co-workers like that, who if I asked them straight up if they thought I was evil, or even stupid, for supporting health care reform, I know they would back right down. Some people are reachable, and "fuck you" won't reach them.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

22. I think the OP's advice is excellent

The general Pox viewing audience aren't big on abstracted policy wonking.....

but they ARE big on populism, which is what Pox is very good at --- outraged, what about me, I'd like to go have a beer with the guy, white women are nice eye-candy and most interesting when they're missing/murdered, populism. (I guess all of the cable news is good at this, actually...no cable here, so I'm judging based on examples seen here.)

So, addressing them on the emotional level, their personal emotional experience is THE BEST and probably ONLY way to enter their orbit.

[IcyPeas]

7. but, but, but - Sean Hannity said so ....... he wouldn't lie?

WOULD HE? :dunce:

[MADem]

10. It's true. When people, even by implication, make the debate personal, they've lost the argument.

By pointing out that they are making the debate personal, and ascribing nefarious motives to a massive swathe of the American citizenry, they really have no valid retort.

That would make a nice oppo ad in the right venue, actually.

Show a nice middle-class woman, with her elderly ma, saying "I don't want to kill my mother."

Show a dad playing with his disabled kid, saying "I don't want to put little Gregory to death."

A construction worker: "I don't want to live under communism...."

A cubicle worker: "I don't want 'rationed' health care."

All of 'em: "We just want affordable health care for every single American."

Little kid: "Is that too much to ask?"

Announcer: Ratchet down the rhetoric. Cut through the bull. Quality health care should be a right for every American. Including YOU.

[csziggy]

21. +1

[begin_within]

11. My reply to them is this:

"Your God is going to punish you big time for what you are saying now. You are going to have to pay the price when you meet God. You are going to have to beg for God's forgiveness, and even then I don't think you have a chance. What you are saying is pure evil, and you are going to pay a very heavy price for it in eternity."

Just turn their moralization back in their face.

[ginnyinWI]

13. he would just tell me I was being fooled.

He (my dad) wouldn't be speechless at all. He'd say I was too stupid to realize I was being lied to.

[varelse]

14. Good thinking

so much better than the new "paid thugs working for the opposition act like brownshirts so that means we should too" meme - that one needs to die a swift death.

[BlooInBloo]

16. If you're going to honor idiocy with an answer at all, that's not a bad one.