Dems Hold Their Own at MA Town Hall

[cal04]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/8/763832/-Dems-Hold-Their-Own-at-MA-Town-Hall
by Mike08

Massachusetts is thank goodness, a very liberal state. Here we are of course represented by Senators Kennedy and Kerry and a for the most part liberal, all Democratic congressional delegation. Our African-American Governor Deval Patrick went to Harvard Law with Barack Obama. Both houses of our state legislature have been majority Democratic for many years now. We were so famously the first state to legalize same sex marriage. We have an, albeit weak, version of universal health care in place. Today, when the wingnuts came out to play, we were ready for them.


Congresswoman Niki Tsongas of the second district, representing Lowell and vicinity, held a town hall meeting about health care today at the Chelmsford town hall gymnasium. While Congressman Jim McGovern of the third district held a meeting in Worcester earlier this week, Tsongas is the only other congress person in Massachusetts who has meetings scheduled for this recess. Considering the hostile tenor that such meetings have engendered it was brave of her to move forward and hold her meeting. She is also planning a second one with date and details to be announced.

When I arrived at 9:30 for the 10:00 am meeting there was a crowd of over 100 waiting for the doors to open. Both sides were well represented as people handed out literature and signs. I took a well printed sign from a Service Employees International Union (SEIU) member who had a number of them. It said "Health Insurance Reform for All", which is pretty weak by my standards but I decided it was better than nothing and that it would get the point across. One thing is sure about the other side: they make lousy signs. Definitely all the artist and creative types are on our side! Of course someone from Winglandia was sporting the large photo of Obama with Hitler's mustache. Sadly I guess that is becoming required signage with this group. Someone told me that it is the Lyndon LaRouche nuts who are supplying that particular piece of handiwork. There was someone handing out slick, glossy LaRouche literature, to use the term literature loosely. It said something or other about Nazis of course. The person handing it out was pretty much babbling incoherently. At least I wasn't able to make any sense of whatever she was trying to say. It was sad.

I heard one of the two police officers on hand say that the gym held 200. Once the doors were opened it filled up fast. All seats were taken and people stood along one of the sides and along the back. There were sign in sheets on which people entered their names, towns, and phone numbers but as the event unfolded it proved obvious that this in no way deterred these people from acting like complete idiots. Well actually, I don't think they were acting.

Tsongas provided coffee and doughnuts which those on the right devoured like locusts. Doughnuts were the only thing about Tsongas that they liked. I don't think most of us on the left were thinking about food. And I didn't want to be holding hot coffee in close proximity to such angry people. And they were angry. What a drag to be so possessed by so much anger.

When Tsongas started she said that there were an equal number of people outside who were not able to fit in the room. It quickly became clear to me, based on audience reaction to her comments, that we were well represented. I'd say that the audience was about 60% lunatics to 40% in favor of health care reform.

Tsongas did a great job of explaining the bill and dispelling the myths that are reality for those on the right. She supports the public option. She made that quite clear. She spoke for about twenty minutes and then took questions.

The rabid right in attendance held true to their reputation for rabidity. They screamed, they yelled, they booed. They set a new standard for interruption of public discourse. But they didn't win. There were plenty of us there who shushed them and who clapped whenever Tsongas made an important point. They did not own the room.

They were loud. They were juvenile. They were thuggish. Their anger was so extreme that they seemed capable of violence. Now I know what happened to all those problem kids who caused so much trouble in middle school. They "grew up" to populate America's right wing.

But as I said, they did not win the day. Niki Tsongas held her own. And we were there for her. The bad guys will have to try again another day.

This is a first diary.

[corpseratemedia]

1. If they were there to boo her and interrupt, they shouldn't have eaten her donuts!

[johnfunk]

15. They drank her milkshake... NOT!

[The Wizard]

27. Next time

LSD in the donuts.

[crikkett]

33. no, they don't need the bad trip. Saltpeter.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

39. oh don't be so silly; you'd think you were brought up in

an ethical household, or something!

ha, I'd love video of the Winglandians (hahah good name!) being hateful and angry, then swarming the donut table and elbowing out anyone else. Boy what a visual that would be....

[bjobotts]

41. Thanks for recounting that event. It was an interesting read and report. Thanks

[bjobotts]

42. Everyone has a right to be heard but I believe in 'civil' discourse.Some don't have a clue what that

means.

[ldf]

43. all their talking heads scream

that is all they know, since they are all they watch.

hate, anger, bitterness. and they will lie at the drop of a hat to promote their agenda. all they can do is scream.

for a talking head, rachel maddow is a breath of fresh air. and SHE tells the truth.

[Adelante]

2. Thank you for the encouraging report, cal04

Good on you guys :toast:

[lamp_shade]

3. BRAVO!!

[POAS]

4. They ate "socialist doughnuts"?

What were they thinking?

[George II]

36. They were free, paid for by someone else - that's all they care about...let someone ELSE pay!!!!

[POAS]

46. You reminded me of my late wingnut uncle.

Stopped at a Wendy's with a few relatives including my uncle once.

After we sat down at a table he got back up and went to the condiments table and filled his pockets with ketchup, mustard, salt, sporks, basically anything that wasn't nailed down. He said that since the food was so expensive he deserved a few extras.

[ellie]

5. Good for you!

Thanks for the report.

[BlueJazz]

6. Great report. Thanks (and Funny) "doughnuts which those on the right devoured like locusts"

:rofl:

[Caoimhe]

34. Yes, ever notice how

it's the most conservative person in a crowd that hogs all the freebies at any gathering? If it's something where family is invited, they send each of their children individually to get free mugs, tshirts, hats, pencils, notepads, balloons, keychains and especially food. They are truly the most greedy people in the room, it never fails.

[TheCowsCameHome]

7. Barney Frank has a meeting scheduled 8/18 in Dartmouth MA, and

a first-class jerkoff RW talk show host on Cape Cod's WXTK 95.1 named Ed Lambert is telling his brain dead listeners to disrupt the meeting by shouting him down.

I hope Dartmouth is prepared to deal with these fools.

[Cha]

9. I would think that would be

plenty of warning time and experience with other Meets to come up with a fool proof method to get help to the people who came to debate real health insurance reform.

[rox63]

23. If anyone can put right-wing tools in their places, it's Barney Frank n/t

[George II]

37. From what I've seen of Barney Frank, I think he would be able to deal with these fools....

...let's hope he's prepared - he sure knows how to put things in perspective and put rightwingers down.

[Cha]

8. Are you kidding me! This should have about a

thousand Rec'ds!

How did Niki make herself heard over the loud and obnoxious doNut holes?

Thanks, cal!

[cal04]

10. Harkin Health Care Event Erupts in Shouting Match

http://www.kcrg.com/news/local/52797347.html

A health care event sponsored U.S. Sen. Tom Harkin erupted into a shouting match Saturday afternoon, when opponents of health-care reform yelled pointed questions and criticisms to the Democratic senator.

It echoed other health care events sponsored by members of Congress around the country in recent days that have been disrupted by protestors, although no one was arrested at Saturday’s event.

Uniformed police officers were present as roughly 200 people turned out to see Harkin at an inner-city health care center to voice their opinions or ask questions about health care.

“This is not health reform, this is control, control over our lives,” one unidentified man shouted from the audience.

(snip)
Moments before the event began, Harkin told reporters that opponents of health-care reform were using “scare tactics” in an effort to stop it.

“There’s a lot of people out there making a lot of money on this system, and they don’t want to change it,” Harkin said. “They just like it just the way it is, so whatever they can do to disrupt it, to stop it, they’re money ahead. We can’t let them stop us from changing this system.”

Jim Stone, a West Des Moines resident who attended the forum, took issue with complaints about government intervention in the health care system, pointing out that Medicare is a government-run program.

He’s in favor of the health-care reform proposal in Congress, and said he was disappointed with the behavior of opponents at the event.

“There’s no correlation between volume and intelligent questions,” Stone said. “In fact, there may be a negative correlation.”

[dccrossman]

11. Excellent to hear

We need examples like these to counter the viral videos of the madhouses. Show that civil discourse, even when idiots are in the room, is possible.

[cal04]

12. Report from HC townhall in WA. state

by jaxhpfa
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/8/763931/-Report-from-HC-townhall-in-WA.-state.

Good HC townhall in WA. today!!

My mother and I attended Cong. Rick Larson's HC townhall today in Mt. Vernon, WA. It went pretty well all and all. This being the NW even our right-wing crazies are a bit more civilized so only a few real boisterous folks there.

I estimate 400 or so people there ( so many that less than half could fit inside the building!)

Also, we pro-reformers either kept parity with the wing-nuts or outnumbered them.

Many visible "single-payer" and HealthCare NOW! signs and activists. Tons of Obama 08 stickers on cars and people,( first tip off was alot of Priuses'). The congressman did an excellent job from the begining of keeping order and controlling the direction of questions and staying on HC!

A few folks could be heard at a few occasions attempting to shout down something, but it was quickly overcome and quieted down.

We only stayed until it was scheduled to end and so not sure how long beyond it went, but he indicated that he wanted to keep to the timeline as best he could.

Prior to going I had received numerous emails from the WH, OFA, HealthcareNOW! and the county Dem. party about the event and to RSVP. The party was doing phonebanking yesterday to get our folks there and it appears to have worked!!!!! I think we are on to em' now.

The key everybody....if someone tries to shout down or control...just insist to the Congressman/woman and/or moderator that you came for info on HR.3200 and/or Senate HELP bills and want to learn and that they are out of order, this is supposed to be a discussion.....but do it politely and firmly!!

I think the situation is getting firmly under control now and we are taking back control of the message......let's keep our heads up everybody and DON'T FORGET TO ATTEND YOUR LOCAL TOWNHALLS!!!!!

We must out manoeuver them with our numbers and ideals.

[defendandprotect]

13. k i c k

[cal04]

14. Chaotic forum in Northern Indiana, but we owned the place!

by IndySteve
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/8/763967/-Chaotic-forum-in-Northern-Indiana,-but-we-owned-the-place!

My wife and I went to what was supposed to be a one-on-one with your Congressman in a supermarket. When we arrived the little eating area in this local market was packed with all types of folks. You could tell the right-wingers because they generally looked pissed off and were always muttering under their breath something about obamacare or socialism.

It was pretty evenly split between pro and con, but the nastiness was out in full display. I decided to walk around politely talk to folks, particularly challenging them as pleasantly as possible on the misinformation they had on their signs or in their arguments. Some of them exhibited fascinating contradictions:

one woman said she had recently lost her job and her kids were on Medicaid but she didn't want the government controlling her health care! When reminded that Medicaid was "single payer" she said she'd rather not have her kids on it but she had to! Well, at least she could have that.

Another guy was complaining about VA health care and all the cuts, I reminded him that we just had an historical increase in VA health and other benefits, he retorted that was for young vets and he wasn't going back to College. I questioned whether he wanted to help out vets coming home from Iraq/Afghanistan and he drifted off muttering of course.

Another woman who had a sign that said "obamacare supports abortions and euthanasia" had an appeal to Senator Donely (sic), which was both misspelling his name and mistaking him for a Senator instead of a Rep. When I pointed out that the misinformation in her sign matched her knowledge of the Representative, she quickly lowered it in embarrassment. Later, I noticed she had torn off his name and title, and was holding the sign a little lower.

I often used the phrase that "you are entitled to your own opinion but not to make up the facts" which seemed to really stun them. They were confronted with a view that someone respected their different views but challenged them on the misinformation and really couldn't respond to it.

Many of them acted as if everyone held the same opinion as they did, and when I politely said I did not, it seemed to genuinely surprise them. In their circles, they don't know anyone who has a different view and who doesn't just nod at the same misinformed view they have. I always corrected them if they came up to me talking as if I agreed with them which happened at least a dozen times. They just assumed I was there like they were and for the same reasons.

Also, it worked very well when some started to act out and yell or carry on loud conversations to disrupt, to challenge them on how you were there to find out what the Rep. thought and they were interfering with my right to do so. That generally either shut them up, or at least made others next to them move away so there was noone to talk to. Some continued talking to themselves!

Don't forget to ask a question that gives the Rep. an opportunity to talk about the substance of the plan and support things that may relate to even the hard-core opponents' lives. I asked a question about a real health care issue with my family on denial for pre-existing conditions which allowed my Rep. to talk about his experiences in obtaining coverage. Most of the crowd was very subdued and even aeemed to agree that it was outrageous to be denied insurance for a health care condition.

There were a lot of boos, a lot of anger, some racist remarks (which I also challenged directly which made them quieter), and a lot of derogatory remarks to the Congressman.

Rep. Donnelly (a bluedog Dem, I might add) held his own, defended most of the proposed plan, even trying to explain a public option, and generally did an excellent job of trying to be respectful of the audience yet controlling the outrageous comments and noise. By the end, the crowd was actually subdued and seemed to actually be listening to his responses, and I believe that some were thinking about what they had just been told, and came away with some new info which they may factor into their thinking.

I don't know if any minds were changed but they seemed genuinely surprised to be challenged and to actually meet people with different views than they had. And as I talked to some of the more hardcore, I knew others were standing listening intently to us. So hopefully, some good was done, maybe some minds were changed and it was definitely worthwhile that many of us showed up to provide support for our Rep. and to not be silent but to make the case for supporting reform and correcting the lies.

A larger group stood outside taking on the other side with signs and chanting "health care now" to show that we were there in force. It worked and it was a great experience, although unnerving to be in the midst of such angry, nasty, mean-spirited people.

[cal04]

16. Health Care Town Hall in South Bend (photos)

by indybend
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/8/8/763900/-Health-Care-Town-Hall-in-South-Bend-(photos)

Congressman Joe Donnelly was planning a sit down with a few constituents at a local supermarket today, but instead a couple of hundred people showed up to talk about health care reform (or not).

I would estimate that about 70% of the crowd was anti-health care reform. In my pictures below, many of them wore red t-shirts that suggested health care reform was all about government tyranny. In all my life, I have never heard such uninformed, paranoid and downright ignorant discussion of an important issue as the conversation that went on before Donnelly arrived.

One woman I was standing next to went on at length about the Democrats and Obama being Nazis -- she claimed she watched the Nuremberg trials on TV when she was a teenager. She complained that people nowadays had forgotten about that, and they didn't see how much like Hitler Obama is. She had some chain email written by a former marine who had gone through the bill and listed dozens of items in the bill that are unconstitutional. She continued by claiming that the elderly would be euthanized since there would not be enough money in the program to cover them. This health care bill must be stopped or we would all end up as slaves (what?) At the point, I edged away from her...

While many of the people that actually spoke during the meeting were not quite as crazy as that woman, there was a lot of misinformation being spread -- the usual things about coverage of illegal aliens, mandatory end of life counseling, coverage of abortion, health care rationing, the current bill being a trojan horse for eventual single payer, and so on.

Nancy Pelosi got a lot of criticism during the meeting - in particular, two men claimed that she had called Republicans Nazis. I was a bit puzzled by that one so I checked when I got home and found that, of course, she did not call anyone a Nazi, she was talking about protestors who bring signs with swastikas (and picturing Obama as Hitler) into health care meetings elsewhere in the county. There was a lot of support at this meeting for making her apologize and step down as speaker. Donnelly sidestepped that one nicely. Overall, he did a great job keeping the meeting under control -- in a stroke of genius, he decided to answer questions from a point in the center of the crowd, which I think made it more difficult for anyone to be rude.

Anyway, here are my pictures.


(one of the pictures)

The local chapter of Organizing for America has done a good job getting people to come out and show support.

[George II]

38. I particularly like the picture of the guy in the red shirt (sixth one down) and...

....the signs shaped like pigs. Here's a guy bordering on obese with a beer gut saying, "don't enslave our children with your pork"!! Hysterical. At least the Moran spelled the words correctly.

[cal04]

17. Boston Herald: Healthy debate at last

http://news.bostonherald.com/news/politics/view/20090809healthy_debate_at_last/srvc=home&position=5

Rep. Niki Tsongas (D-Lowell) was peppered with questions at a health-care forum in Chelmsford yesterday morning, becoming the latest Dem to take part in a raucous town-hall meeting.

“We managed to have a serious discussion,” said the congresswoman, adding that she regarded the event as a healthy debate. “Different opinions were expressed and there were moments when people were very animated, but they respected the need to go forward.”

Local media caught audio of bellowing critics at the Chelmsford Town Hall event, which drew close to 300. “I felt people were very passionate, but I never felt shouted down,” Tsongas said.

Right-leaning groups have organized protesters to disrupt recent Democratic town-hall meetings, at which pols have been hanged in effigy, shouted down and taunted. But Tsongas said the Chelmsford debate was civil and sincere. “Some people seemed genuinely concerned,” she said. “I wasn’t suprised by it. We knew people would come and there would be strong opinions.”

[Qutzupalotl]

18. Shushing them.

I gotta tell ya, that's not my first instinct when I see angry misinformed nuts. I guess it could work if your numbers are good, and theirs seemed to be. That and clapping in support seems to have dispirited the disruptors.

[glowing]

19. Tsongas.. Who in her family held the seat before her.. Was it Paul.

[Mass]

20. Actually, it was Meehan who resigned a couple years ago.

Her husband held the seat 30 years ago.

[TayTay]

21. Yes, Paul Tsongas was a Rep in the 70's

The became a US Senator in 1978 by taking Edward Brooke's seat from him. (Brooke, a Republican, was the only freely elected African-American to serve in the US Senate till Carol Mosely Braun.)

Paul Tsongas is a revered man in the 5th District. When Niki decided to run, she became the front-runner based, in part, on this affection for Paul.

[glowing]

24. Got you. I lived just on the other side of the Mass border in VT.

I remember the name floating around when I was a kid. I'm not sure what the adult chatter was always about. Because we were so close to the Mass border our local channels defaulted to Springfield or Boston.. so, I was more aware of what was going on in Mass than ever in VT a lot of the time. But because I was so young, I don't remember much of the chatter.. just remember the name and that the Tsongas family was political and liked. Thanks for the details..

[rox63]

25. Yes, DO NOT mess with the Tsongas name in the Greater-Lowell, MA area

He's a bit of a local hero around here. Heck, they even named the local arena for him.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. GOOD JOB!!! Kick and recommended!!

[TayTay]

26. I was there as well.

I got there about 8:45 am and was about 10th in line to get in. I had been emailed about this meeting from OFA and Niki people. (A note on names: Politics is personal in the Bay State. Our politicians are often called by their first names. We know where "Teddy" stands, who "Barney" is and why we support "Niki" or "Jamie." Even John Kerry is often called "John" by constituents or "Big John" when they need to distinguish him from someone else with that first name.

I was in one of the all-time great good moods yesterday morning and arrived at the hall singing to myself. Apparently, a good mood is contagious and affected those around me. I talked to the people ahead of me in line who we Republican conservative activists and those behind me who were single-payer advocates. (And had been going to Dem meetings in MA for over 50 years. Now that's dedication.)

We got into the hall and filled out the signup sheets and chose seats. I had told the people behind me to head for the front rows and put down purses, notes, hats, etc in order to save seats. We were saving them for other liberal and pro-Niki people and to prevent the front rows from being filled up by the cons. That worked very well. I recognized several folks I knew and got 3 liberal seat-takers right in front of a group of 5 cons. heheheheheheh. (Divide and conquer.) We managed to do that across the front rows.

Niki spoke and got the cat-calls from some who think free speech is when they speak and others listen and nothing else. Niki was a rock-star. (I love this woman. My husband worked on Paul Tsongas' Senate bid back in the late 70's and he was for Niki the moment she announced. I was not a "free-agent" at the time and didn't support her until after the primary. That would not have been neither ethical nor right on my part at that time.)

Niki spoke for a while and when the cons decided to shout out at her then people LOUDLY shushed them. This was, by far, one of the most effective tactics of the day. It established a sort of floor for discussion and that if people were going to be rude and interrupt others, then they were going to shushed and reprimanded for it byt their fellow citizens. This was a democracy at it's finest.

The Q&A period effectively divided the room in half. There were dozens of people in line, so one half of the room could no longer see the other half. I think this also effectively shut off some of the more nasty name-calling. The meeting was lively and a great many opinions were expressed. Each side had a sort of built-in cheering section. The worst part of the meeting was when questioners were heckled when they expressed an opinion based on a personal background. (Both sides did this and both sides were heckled.) This was inappropriate. We don't know the motivations or life-experiences of these folks. To call someone an "actress" because we don't like her point of view and heckle her because we think her experience is false based on no data at all is a lousy debate tactic. We shouldn't do it. Nor should they. It really cheapens debate and turns off the people who are still open to debate.

I enjoyed the meeting. Again, Niki won points because she had the guts to stand there and take every question until the clock ran out. (The hall had to be vacated at a certain time for another use.) I had several people try to use the tactic of taking a sentence for a 500 page proposal and use it to disparage the whole concept of health care reform. Where the hell were these people when the Bankruptcy bill passed in 2005 and the Repubs opened personal banking history to credit card companies? (That was one talking point, that the govt would be able to access your banking info. Please, Patriot Act anyone?)You can cut the hypocrisy with knife with these folks. I was told that Obama owns the trillion in deficit and that no one could cite Bush on this anymore. This was, of course, a brain-dead point. However, I replied that, of course, that meant that Bush really was responsible for the oversight leading to 9/11 because he had been President, by their logic, long enough to "man up" to his responsibility on protecting the country by then. The Cons didn't like that at all.

[Beartracks]

28. Man up!

"Bush really was responsible for the oversight leading to 9/11 because he had been President, by their logic, long enough to "man up" to his responsibility on protecting the country by then."

Well... he WAS President when that explicit threat assessment document came through...

[TayTay]

29. One Con talking point yesterday

was to profess disbelief and extreme skepticism when Bush's name was brought up and the fact that he doubled the US debt to nearly $10 trillion and his bad management of the country brought us to the brink of disaster. The reply was that Bush was over, Obama was now President and the national debt was therefore his responsibility and his problem alone. No one could accuse Bush of mismangement because Obama had been in office long enough to "own" the problem. Fine. If those are the rules for Obama, then they were the rules for Bush. Bush owned a lot that had previously been pawned off by the right wing as caused by Clinton.

[Beartracks]

44. I agree.

When I re-read my post it sounded like maybe I didn't. But I'm right there rolling my eyes with you at the Repubs. They do not know how to take responsibility for their actions.

:eyes:

[TayTay]

45. I thought that was what you meant as well

I was just (possibly over) explaining one of the more annoying habits of the Cons to pawn off failure on everyone else and completely avoid and excuse their own actions. It is shameless.

[rox63]

31. I wish iI could have been there

But I had other obligations Saturday morning. :(

BTW, from the looks of the local RW rag (i.e. the Lowell Sun), you'd think they'd been at a totally different meeting. :eyes:


Oh, and Hi, Tay. :hi:

[TayTay]

32. Yeah, I saw the Sun, typical

The meeting was pretty raucous. But the crazies by no means got the upper hand.

Some newspapers believe that any dissent is a sign of trouble for the pols involved. Dissent is itself a sign of a problem. Well, there are all kinds of dissent and that means all kinds of things. Except to newspapers on a deadline who only consider one point of view. Maybe that is why that particular newspaper is on the verge of going into bankruptcy and winking out of existence.

[backscatter712]

30. I think the tide is turning!

OFA is mobilizing, the unions are showing up, the real grassroots are showing up to be heard, and in many of these town halls, the teabaggers are finding themselves outnumbered! We're making it clear that we won't be bullied, we're calling them out on their disruption tactics, and showing support for our elected Democrats.

KEEP GOING!!!

[rucognizant]

35. Priceless!

"Now I know what happened to all those problem kids who caused so much trouble in middle school. They "grew up" to populate America's right wing."
This is definitely the first article of many I hope!

[tosh]

40. +1 and bookmarking.

I want to come back and read the replies from DU'ers who've attended TH's elsewhere.