Another Whale Wars post... No wait! You HAVE TO SEE THIS VIDEO!

[Shagbark Hickory]

The whale murderer ships have these signs on them with a web address if you watch carefully during whale wars you can make it out. the url is icrwhale.org
Unbelievable photos and videos on that site filmed and shot on the whalers ships.

Look at this video that shows the Sea Shepherd plowing into one of their ships as it drags a whale along the side.
REally!
http://icrwhale.org/eng/090206SS2.wmv

[ProgressiveProfessor]

1. Intentional ramming...Watson should have his masters licensed shredded for that

and the boat's national charter removed

[mitchtv]

3. isn't the ship sailing a Native American nation

Flag?

[Suich]

4. Yup...good catch!

http://www.seashepherd.org/support-us/featured-supporter.html

[ProgressiveProfessor]

5. No, Dutch at the momement

[Suich]

6. It's registered Dutch but

they fly the Flag of the Five Nations Iroquois Confederacy. The story is at the link in my post.

:hi:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

14. In nautical terms, the nation of registry is the flag the boat sails under

Without a recognized maritime national registration the ship can be seized as a pirate etc. That was mentioned in one of the recent WW episodes. It was also stated that if they attacked ships directly from their boat, their registration would be pulled and that would be a serious problem.

As for the 5 Nations flag, its decorative, comparable to a martini burgee

[Usrename]

8. You don't believe in protecting whales?

Really?

Oviously we'll have to quit killing them eventually, either now, while some are left, or when they are all gone.

You want to wipe them all out. For what? Why? What is wrong with letting a few survive?

[time_has_come]

26. Yes, that's what the poster said. They want to wipe out all the whales. sheesh.

You're being as dishonest as "Captain" Watson.

Tell me, do you own a gun? Who do you plan to shoot first in defense of some worthy cause? Naturally, you will be completely justified in doing so, and anyone who criticizes you for killing people obviously doesn't support your cause.

[Usrename]

65. Who did Watson shoot?

Try to be coherent.

[time_has_come]

80. Are you still being dishonest?

Or can't you comprehend a simple analogy?

I didn't say Watson shot anyone. He certainly endangered lives, and could have easily killed people. It's not much different than if someone were to start shooting at people and feel justified because their cause is justified.

Ok now?

[Usrename]

83. Are you still being disruptive?

If you don't think saving whales is a worthy cause, then just say so.

No reason to be coy, just tell us all how you don't beleive that the "cause is justified."

[niceypoo]

68. He should be given a nobel peace prize for it

He needs an ice breaker, then he can really ram them without worry

[Suich]

2. That's insane...

and a really stupid thing to do.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[Usrename]

9. What is the really smart thing to do?

:shrug:

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. Not ramming other vessels would be a start.

That stunt, depending on when it was done, could cost them their national registry.

[Usrename]

16. What is so smart about not ramming the whalers?

They have a show on Animal Planet now. They are making a difference by making the public aware of the issue.

Sure they might lose their registry. And, the down side of that would be?

What is anyone else doing? What other action do you propose? I guess I can interpret your last response to mean that you think that action is stupid, that it would be much smarter to do nothing. This issue won't go away by itself.

Increasing public awareness, by any practicle means possible, is the smart thing to do, if you ask me.

So he loses his license. What good would it do the whales for him to hold onto it? See what I mean?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N44Bql8nrQo

[Shagbark Hickory]

22. Apparently "ramming" into other ships is not that uncommon. The Canadian Coast Guard rammed the --->

Sea Shepherds in a campaign for protecting the seals.

There's a video of it on their website under campaigns > seals

[ProgressiveProfessor]

23. Action that endagers human life is stupid

If the vessel looses its registration, it can be stopped, boarded and taken by any navy that chooses to. At any port, the host nation could do the same thing. Maritime law is clear, there is no ship without a country except pirates.

If Watson loses his master license, he can no longer be in charge of any vessel requiring a license. Not clear if any of his current cadre also has a masters license of the right type. It would also nullify any insurance.

So if he loses his license possibly there is no new season of WW, and if the boat is unflagged there will definitely be no new season.

I support the Greenpeace approach, which while not as flashy, has a better long term track record.

[Usrename]

47. I think your original argument is pretty weak.

If you don't think he should interfere with the whalers, what difference does it make if he has a ship or a license?

Now, if you want to make an argument that Greenpeace is more effective, then fine, that argument is more legitimate. Also, although I understand you being hesitant to endanger human life, I believe killing off all the whales will do irreparable harm to humanity as a whole. If we cannot save the whales, what are we good for?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

49. Actually I have no problem with interference as long as it does no put lives at risk

Its the historical first law of the sea.

I also don't care about his license or the flagging of his vessel. However, if he loses either, the SSCS comes apart, since its all based on Watson.

[Usrename]

56. That's reasonable enough.

:toast:

[Gabi Hayes]

59. what a joke! whose law???? the REASON he's doing what he does is that NOBODY will

enforce, or has enforced 'laws of the sea' already in place, designed to PROTECT whales against the illegal slaughter that's been going on after it had been codified as illegal

which side are you on, boy,
which side are you on....

o great poohbah/respecter of all things 'legal,' what was the law of the land regarding the Juden back in 1930s Germany?

I guess those who tried to save them were terrorists, too?

huh?

what're you a professor of...laws that fit your particular POV?

who made you king of the world?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

75. Actually whaling is not covered under any LOS treaty

Its under a separate body without any enforcement powers.

The law I refer to is the traditional first law of the sea which is the preservation of human life. Its old school to some, but still important

[niceypoo]

69. He has been doing it for 30 years

He has sunk 11 ships. Fat chance Sea shephard will be falling apart anytime soon, nor is the organization 'based on Watson.'

[Thothmes]

48. Not as far as some that contirbute to this forum are conserned

they openly call for the deaths of the sailors on those whale ships.

[Gabi Hayes]

50. oh yeah? prove it

can't wait

[Usrename]

57. Be careful what you ask for...

there seem to be folks here with all sorts of odd views. ;) "Death to whalers" is only mildly extreme by any objective standard.

[Gabi Hayes]

58. I'm still waiting for one single expression of that here. so far, nothing even close

seen this? in all the years of Sea Shepherd actions, not one whaler has been injured

http://www.seashepherd.org/whales/sea-shepherd-history.html

and this is the likes of whom the fauxtragers here stand alongside:

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=13159

[Thothmes]

81. You are correct, none have been injured,

I think that is good. On past treads on the subject, there have been some folks express the opinion that they wishing death to those people involved in whaling. It is a viewpoint that I do not agree with.

[Moochy]

85. Best to focus on the outliers when smearing

[ConsAreLiars]

72. Interesting. You support ramming a ship carrying humanitarian aid but get all self-righteous

about a clever maneuver that did not involve any contact when it is directed against whale killers.

You support the actual ramming and near sinking of an aid ship bringing supplies and attention to human victims of a slaughter, and you get your undies in a wad and falsely charge a "ramming" when some activists engage in nonviolent action against the slaughter of whales.

Interesting indeed. But there may actually be a rather bizarre, if sordid, consistency in your views.

Did you pick your new online nick on opposites day?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

76. The situations are no where near parallel, but then again you know that

[ConsAreLiars]

79. No, not parallel, which makes your support for ramming

aid ships and your false claims of ramming by the Sea Shepherd even more revealing. You make shit up to denounce an anti-whaling organization, and show similar inventiveness to support the near drowning at sea of aid workers.

I see those opposite arguments (in terms of the positions you take on ramming) as being absolutely parallel and consistent with only one kind of ideology, and it is one I will always regard as a sickness, at best.

[Usrename]

84. doublethink: a simultaneous belief in two contradictory ideas

a condition first recognized by the prophet George Orwell

[Usrename]

86. You need to take a close look at this response.

You just told me that you didn't believe in risking lives under ANY circumstances.

WTF?

Under exactly WHAT circumstances do you think risking lives is acceptable?

WTF?

This kind of behavior pisses me off.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

91. Its the difference between legal conduct and teabagging

The incident referred to is when a pleasure craft, purportedly loaded with supplies, attempted to violate the legally establish MEZ near Gaza. In the course of the interception by he Israeli Navy, the boat was struck hull to hull (sideswiped) by an Israeli vessel. There is some dispute if their was prior warning. However, all agree afterwards at least one Israeli cutter escorted the boat until it reached harbor in Lebanon. Summary: Civilian craft illegal enters an internationally recognized MEZ and is turned around and escorted to harbor after it sustain damage. One can argue the legality of the Gaza MEZ, but other nations acknowledge and respect it.

With the Watson you have a civilian (vice a national Navy) ship intentionally attempting to damage and interfere with ships doing what is currently recognized as legal by the IWC. That brings us to Watson. He dislikes a legal activity and tries to stop it by just about any means he can. Whines loudly when defensive means (nets) block his tactics, and has tantrums when the people he is illegally trying to stop push back. Sounds a lot like a teabagger to me.

I don't support whaling. Its currently controlled by the IWC which has no real teeth. I would like to see that changed too. There have been reports that Watson's antics have made it harder to further restrict whaling. I also wonder how much longer the Japanese will take his illegal behavior. They may have more than LRADs next time around.

Finally, how many people here know that the US also does whaling?

[Usrename]

92. But you were arguing that you were a pacifist, weren't you?

How do you make an argument that you believe in pacifism when it suits you, but you also believe in violence when it suits you?

I understand that the methods being used in the whale wars saga are at times violent, and that people could get hurt, but then I don't claim to be a pacifist either. You just advocated non-violence earlier, until another poster who recognized you busted you on it.

Either you are a pacifist, or you aren't, and it sounds like now you are saying you aren't. Fine, then don't claim to be one.

[Usrename]

87. .

:spank:

[girl gone mad]

78. pwned.

what was the old nick, btw?

[ConsAreLiars]

93. I don't recall exactly

It was ProgressiveSomethingOrOther. I noticed at the time, during the elections, because so many rightists were trolling with nicks like "DemSomething" or "LiberalSomething" and so on, and this poster seemed to be consistently fit that pattern on the occasions I noticed its comments. This one supports slaughter of civilians and whaling, but gets a pass.

Ah, if I remember, it might have been ProgressiveHistorian or ProgressiveExpert or some such, should have been ProgressiveNot, although, predictably, the posts showed no evidence of being either.

I'm not certain, maybe the "professor" will set the record straight.

(edit to indicate that my recollection may be wrong.)

[Moochy]

94. He wont reply

First rule of Troll Club is ignore the posts which discuss Troll Club.

I share your exact observations with regard to certain "Progressive" sounding named DU'ers.

"PeaceLovingHippy" naturally is a DU'er who supports bombing of Dresden,Hiroshima,Nagasake,Fallujah and thinks that UAVs are the Wave of the Future.

[Shagbark Hickory]

7. Bump dunkadunk nt

[Canuckistanian]

10. K&R

[voteearlyvoteoften]

11. I support them

He really is willing to die for his cause.(He calls them clients) We think he needs torpedos. But I might feel differently if my kids were on the ship. Save the whales!! And go see the movie the Cove if you have any sympathy for the Japanese.

[Xicano]

18. Thanks voteearlyvoteoften for the suggestion on the movie "The Cove".

Here's a trailer of it on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw5qgVp0jng

[Shagbark Hickory]

20. Should we see the movie even if we don't have sympathy for the Japanese?

[northzax]

71. He may be willing to die

But he's also willing to put others in the same boat (or lack thereof) the first rule of the sea is to protect mariners, all mariners. And if your vessel sinks in the Southern Ocean, you are dead.

[NutmegYankee]

12. What Sea Shepherd needs is an old Gato class submarine!

I'm sure a few old timers would appreciate the irony.

[nashville_brook]

36. meet the new Gato

[ProgressiveProfessor]

74. A rich mans toy with no ice capability? Its only value is PR

[Rage for Order]

13. The Sea Shephard captain is an idiot

I enjoy watching the show Whale Wars just to see what stupid, life-endangering situation he will put his volunteers into next. Last night one of the guys on the Steve Irwin claimed they were in a "war". People die in wars. If this is their mindset then the people of Sea Shepherd will have no grounds to complain when (not if) some of their people are killed or die in the course of their stupid stunts.

[niceypoo]

70. They sign wavers saying they are aware they may die

And in 30 years they have sank 11 ships. Some people actually believe in something.

[Gabi Hayes]

73. beat me to the punch...was going to suggest that to mr. clueless know it all in post #71

I saw his name, and knew immediately that he'd be on the side of 'lawnorder'

can't wait to read his rationale for the dedication of the crew, for their willingness to give their lives for something beyond themselves

I'm sure he'll say something clever about how they must be delusional and that no animal is worth a human life


drivel like that

OK, now back to the jazz thread so I can feel better

no more harshing the latenight mellow

thanks for the posts, btw.

[Rage for Order]

89. I didn't know that

That being the case, I'd like to see the Japanese harpoon vessels put a couple of harpoons through the hulls of the inflatable boats Sea Shepherd harasses them with. I might even be in favor of the Japanese torpedoing the Steve Irwin. At this point it's a matter of proportionality. Sea Shepherd sinks 11, the whalers sink 1...that sounds fair.

[niceypoo]

90. You sound resentful

Your side is losing

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Gabi Hayes]

19. too bad there aren't more people like those mentioned below, instead of

the heartless cretins revealed who've revealed themselves in this thread

http://www.corelight.org/whales/prayerwdnews.html

You may have read about the female humpback whale who had become entangled in a spider web of crab traps and lines. She was weighted down by hundreds of pounds of traps that caused her to struggle to stay afloat. She also had hundreds of yards of line rope wrapped around her body, her tail, her torso, a line tugging in her mouth. A fisherman spotted her just east of the Farralone Islands (Outside the Golden Gate off the California coast) and radioed an environmental group for help.

Within a few hours, the rescue team arrived and determined that she was so badly off, the only way to save her was to dive in and untangle her...



a very dangerous proposition.
One slap of the tail could kill a rescuer.



They worked for hours with curved knives and eventually freed her. When she was free, the divers say she swam in what seemed like joyous circles. She then came back to each and every diver, one at a time, and nudged them, pushed gently around-she thanked them. Some said it was the most incredibly beautiful experience of their lives.




The guy who cut the rope out of her mouth says her eye was following him the whole time, and he will never be the same.

[arikara]

28. What a story

I'd think each and every one of those rescuers would willingly ram a whaler after that experience.

[nashville_brook]

39. what a beautiful story.

[Lorien]

66. Amazing story!

Thanks for posting that. Takes a bit of the vile taste of anti-environmentalists out of ones mouth.

[flvegan]

21. I love a good whaler ramming.

:eyes:

While I would gladly applaud any ramming of any whaling vessel, I have to wonder why Watson was never charged with such an infraction? Maybe it's because the ship crossed in front of the Steve Irwin, effectively crashing into her? Hmmmm...

What I'd really like to see is an empty Japanese harbor and some old school scuttling. Sierra, Ibsa I and II, Nybraena, Senet, Willassen Senior, Skarbakk, Morild, Susan, Theresa, Hvalur 6 and 7 and the Elin-Toril...all sent to the bottom, halle-fucking-lujah.

[smalll]

24. If those crazies are going to use a ship to try to impale whaling ships,

they should really call it the "Sting Ray" rather than the "Steve Irwin."

I'm just sayin'. :shrug:

[rvablue]

25. What a disingeneous url....dot-org my ass. It's a government propaganda site and I won't

be clicking on it.

Can't believe how many readily believe what they see, especially coming from a government that is illegally slaughtering whales under the guise of "research" when in fact it is purely for human consumption.

I only wish the Japanese people would find another delicacy. No demand equals no reason to supply.

[Gabi Hayes]

29. thank you....isn't DU supposed be sort of 'progressive?'

sickens me to hear the outrage professed over another blood-for-profit industry, whose existence is completely anachronous

why don't they get off their fat asses and go watch some dog fighting or bear baiting, if their blood lust so strong?

or at least go kill some helpless critter...see how great is feels to cause the death of another living thing

[Shagbark Hickory]

32. Hello?!? Are you talking about what I posted?!

[Gabi Hayes]

34. hello. I'm glad you posted this thread. The post to which I replied also

expresses outrage at what the Japanese (Norwegians, and Icleanders, too) are doing

did you read any of my other posts?

[Shagbark Hickory]

30. It's not from the government. It's from the whalers and by posting it, I am not suggesting it is tru

although what they claim on their website doesn't differ from what the narrator tells you on the tv program. It goes into a little more detail. For example, the whalers claim to be studying whales to determine the viability of fishing for them commercially.
While most of the civilized world would agree there shouldn't be commercial whaling, what the whalers claim to be doing doesn't exactly sound like propaganda. It just sounds like their side of the story. Not necessarily disputing what they are doing there.
They acknowledge they are whaling in protected areas and that there is a moratorium.

I'm not sticking up for them, just saying the have published their side of the story and have some interesting video taken on their ship, from their perspective of footage that hasn't yet aired on animal planet.

[nashville_brook]

40. whatever dude. if you believe the whalers are just *testing the viability* of whaling, and that's OK

then that's who you are.

[Shagbark Hickory]

44. Don't take your sorrow out on me, ok?

[time_has_come]

27. Watson is an opportunistic liar and now a criminal.

Take away his silly hat and put him in jail, I say.

[Gabi Hayes]

31. I cannot stand arrogant, willfully ignorant pontificators

are you one of those "researcher" supporters?

why don't you go out and kill something?

............

http://www.underwatertimes.com/news.php?article_id=90410621753

FRIDAY HARBOR, Washington -- The Institute of Cetacean Research(ICR), a Japanese scientific body that studies whales, today accused the United States television broadcast channel Animal Planet of involvement in ecoterrorism, following criminal attacks against its research ships in the Antarctic Ocean.

Captain Paul Watson: It's getting to the point that calling anyone a terrorist that someone disagrees with is becoming routine........... Sea Shepherd has never injured a single person, we have never been convicted of a felony, we have never been sued, we are not on any no-fly lists nor are we on any international terrorist alert lists. We travel freely under our own passports and we speak openly and always on the record about our activities.

Eco-terrorism is actually the act of terrorizing the environment. Japanese whalers are targeting endangered whales in an established whale sanctuary in violation of a global moratorium on whaling and they are defending their illegal activities with firearms and concussion grenades.

[nashville_brook]

33. Captain Watson bugs the hell out of me AND I SUPPORT HIM FULLY (pics warning)

Ram away Sea Shepherd.

[Gabi Hayes]

35. PLEASE PLEASE put a warning on your post! I almost puked.

I agree that heartless assholes need to see pictures like that, but I don't, and I imagine there are lots of others, too.

I know why you did it, but let us know, OK?

[nashville_brook]

37. sorry... will edit.

[Gabi Hayes]

42. thanks...

more of these, less of those, but the hardhearts on this thread apparently are more interested in their distorted need for 'order on the seas' than the apparently needless existence of certain species

pretty disgusting, isn't it?

and pretty amazing how they side with the real lawbreakers. that's what gets me

[Shagbark Hickory]

62. That warning is inadequate. Please do something to warn us better. Next time if it's too late 2 edit

Anyone who eats whale or dolphins are deranged and belong in the looney bin with hannibal lecter.

[nashville_brook]

38. have you heard about The Cove? Fresh Air did an interview with the filmmaker..., and.

and I kept having to turn it off -- was weeping on my way into work. Don't know if I can see the movie.

Here's a link to the interview:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=111340010

[Gabi Hayes]

43. for the reason you mentioned, I won't be seeing that one. I couldn't watch Sicko, or

Faherenheit 911, for that matter. stuff like that either makes me to sad or too furious

matter of fact, I've had enough of this place for today

these hardhearted, bloodlusting DUers really make me sad. they may not see themselves as such, but attitudes like theirs are what allow the slaughter to continue

I wonder if they know that Watson was the first person to really stand before the harp seal killers.

I guess they're for letting stand that Canadian law that allows sending Watson and others to PRISON for keeping them from clubbing baby seals to death

good for YOU, cretins

[Shagbark Hickory]

63. Who the hell are you talking about. Only 1 or 2 people are talking smack about the sea shepherds and

it's mainly because ramming another ship thousands of miles away from the nearest human being is a bit coo coo. Regardless of the reason. Your posts are confusing to me and antagonistic.

[Gabi Hayes]

64. well, you're certainly half-correct on your assessment.

''regardless of the reason????''

sounds a little 'coo coo' on the reasoning to me

[skipos]

41. I just heard about the movie "the cove" and see that it is playing near me right now

http://www.thecovemovie.com/festivals/upcoming_screenings.htm

Thanks to the person who mentioned it. I will try to see it.

[AllenVanAllen]

45. I support what the Sea Shepherds are doing.

I came across a Japanese citizen's blog entry about the Sea Shepherds and they compared them to terrorists specifically Al Queda. They also stated "whale meat is yummy" and that "if whales are really endangered they shouldn't be hunted". It sounds to me like there's a concerted effort to keep the truth about whaling hidden from the Japanese consumers of whale meat. The Sea Shepherds are not like Al Queda, if they were whalers would already be dead. I don't want anyone to die and I also don't want whaling to continue either.

[Robb]

46. I hate whaling. I hate Watson.

Well-intentioned idiocy is still idiocy.

I applaud the publicity he has generated. But he's inches from jumping the PETA*, and losing what ground he has gained. And he's gained a lot.

If he gets one of his kids, or the (frankly) kids on the whaler killed, he's killed his cause deader than those whales. His ego won't let him see the damage he will do to the cause of protecting whales, long past after he's dead.

He could throttle the whole thing back and make better TV, and get a lot more publicity, and actually do some good. But he's going to self-destruct, I can see it in his face.

Matter of time. Sucks for the whales in the end. :(





* On PETA, without casting asparagus (or God forbid, broccoli) let's just agree the more outlandish events PETA has put out there lately have caused many to stop supporting them. Which is where I was going with this.

[Regret My New Name]

54. I think PETA is amusing and they know what they are doing is over the top at times...

Which is why they do it. One big difference between PETA and Watson, is that PETA doesn't put peoples lives in danger (both their own and the ones they are protesting)

[ColbertWatcher]

51. It's like watching a pit maneuver at sea! Go Sea Shepherds! k+r, n/t

[Gabi Hayes]

52. doncha love those who are so 'outraged' at Watson's tactics; apparently much

less so than those of the ones who are, uh, killing EVERYTHING they can get their hands on?

no outrage at the despoilation of the planet to line the pockets of the filthy few....none a that stuff

too worried about breaking the "law of the sea"

too friggin much

[ColbertWatcher]

53. I think if people acted on their belief that the planet is being destroyed ...

... it's not likely people like Watson would resort to such outrageous tactics.

We all need to do our part.

Complaining online is not really enough. (I'm not saying that's what DUers do, but there are people who would rather tut-tut another's activism than participate in any constructive way)

[Gabi Hayes]

55. couldn't agree more, and I have an additional response:

check your PMs

[stuball111]

77. Thanks Colbert Watcher...

It's nice to see some here aren't anti whale. Sheesh! There's some real posers here! I am suprised that there are so many tut-tuts here, seems there are a few conservative trolls hanging out in DU.

[Annces]

60. DU has jumped the shark on some issues

the level of intelligence and compassion really takes a dive with some of the postings like this one.

Do people who criticize Sea Shepherd have anything to show, for what they are doing to help the earth or the creatures on it. Usually they are just whiners, and lazy bones.

[Gabi Hayes]

61. pretty disgusting, eh? makes you wonder about 'priorities'

upholding the 'law' (their twisted apprehension, anyway) apparently, is more important than anything else, even if other laws go unenforced

btw, check your PMs, please

[Lorien]

67. Agreed. On this and WAY TOO MANY other issues DU has dumped any

remnants of being at all "progressive". DU is now a site for everyone who is not a Right Wing evangelical nutball, and that still includes some pretty conservative narcissists.

[Moochy]

88. It takes a whaling thread to really drive it home

Du's inexorable rightward march rolls on.

[Union Yes]

82. Sea Shepard peeps are amongst my many heroes!