Thumb your nose at cops, get tazed

[Neecy]

This happened at last night's A's game...

Yeah, the guy was an obnoxious drunk, but if cops can't cuff a drunk then maybe they should find another occupation. And in the tazing frenzy, another fan is knocked over and almost cracks his head on the cement steps of the Coli - possibly a good reason for showing some restraint in crowded public places.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CcklIVkphxA

[proud patriot]

1. bummer .... GO A's !

[MADem]

2. He had no intention of leaving calmly. He contributed to his own tazing in a big way.

When people pay good money for tickets to a ball game, they don't need to be harassed by an obnoxious "super drunk" asshole.


The guy brought it on himself....At least, according to the "liner notes:"

Here's the rundown of the video:
1:05 - a belligerent fan gets tazed by Oakland Police.
1:25 - another fan accidentally gets pushed down the stairs in the background.
1:42 - a foul ball lands in the vicinity.

In all fairness to the OPD: there's a ramp-up that you don't see on the tape. Even though the guy shows his ticket, I don't think that's his seat. He came over a little earlier, super drunk. He wasn't angry really, just obnoxious - hollering and making a scene. He was downing all these little bottles of vodka, and started harassing the kids behind him. A's security came to check him out when he started yelling profanities.

When security told him to cool it, he got really belligerent. Started using racial epithets at the guards, etc. They told him to leave. He refused. They called in the cops. You see the rest of it.

Whether or not the tazing was necessary/appropriate, people will certainly disagree. The one thing I can tell you for sure is that this guy had no intention of leaving calmly on his own.
Category: News & Politics

Tags: A's game tazer Oakland Athletics OPD Police tazed tazing ballgame baseball

[Neecy]

3. I agree, in part

They had every reason to haul his ass out of the Coliseum.

However, they had one arm already cuffed and were in the process of cuffing the other when the cop comes from behind immediately after the nose-thumbing and tazes him to the ground.

The guy was loaded. You and I could have probably gotten him cuffed and out of there, so certainly three highly trained OPD officers could do so. Instead they tazed him to the ground and almost got another fan killed in the process. It was totally unnecessary.

[MADem]

5. Well, I was simply parroting the POV of the eyewitness--I'm guessing the person who took the

footage is the same one who posted it.

Be interesting to hear what the guy said. He might have said, for all we know "I'm not moving, so FUCK YOU. I don't give a fuck WHAT you say, copper--you're gonna hafta CARRY my fat ass out!" Or words to that effect.

He certainly wasn't saying "I'll be good, officer, really, and I'm so sorry I misbehaved." That's pretty obvious from his hand gestures, if nothing else.

I'll be honest--someone like that, being an asshole, drunk and yelling at other patrons who have paid good money to go out with their families for a ball game....I got no sympathy. Tazers were made for jerks like that.

If I'm a cop, I'd be figuring "Gee, do I wrestle with this drunk and we possibly BOTH get hurt, and I end up on disability and outta work, or do I give him a dose of Mister Sparky and he comes along quietly...no risk of ME throwing MY back out!"

I know the cops overuse those things, but until they come up with the "Giant Net: As Seen On Cartoons" it's going to remain the non-lethal weapon of choice, better than pepper spray for use in a crowd, less damaging than a billy club.

[Neecy]

9. Um.....they weren't wrestling

Again, one arm was cuffed and the other was in the process of being cuffed. There was no reason to wrestle this guy because he didn't get up, didn't stop the cop from cuffing the first wrist - what he DID do was thumb his nose at the cop, which apparently gave the third cop reason to taze him.

Tazers weren't meant for "jerks" - they were meant for violent criminals. If you think tazing is justified for being a jerk, then welcome to the Police State.

[Taitertots]

12. What video did you watch?

How could you watch that video and honestly make the claim he got tazed for the nose thumbing?

[MADem]

15. Did I say they were? No, I did not. Go back and read slowly what I wrote.

Sheesh.

Each word. Take your time.

I guess you don't have a problem with drunks harassing kids at the ball park. Smooth.

I guess the drunk calling the security guards racist names is fine with you, too?

Sweet.

Yeah, leave him alone to be a profane, racist drunkard. That's the way to get the little ones out to the park! And if you don't let people behave like racist, drunk assholes, why, you're in favor of a police state!!!

:eyes:

[Neecy]

20. gee, read each word. Take your time.

I clearly said he should have been removed. Never ONCE did I suggest that he be left alone, and you look like foolish for lecturing me as though I believe that drunks harassing kids and being racist shouldn't be removed. It's a flat out lie and you know it - just read my comments above.

Acting like anyone who doesn't support the tazing is supporting a racist is bullshit, a way to bully people. The issue at hand is how much force is excessive, period. And in my opinion this went way over the line.

[MADem]

25. """"Um.....they weren't wrestling."""""

Who said that, Neecy? Why YOU DID.

I told you to read, because I NEVER SAID they were wrestling.

The one who looks "foolish" is you. You don't read.

If you have anything to contribute as to how those cops should have handled that guy, by all means, contribute.

Don't tell us what they "shouldn't" have done--tell us how they should have resolved the problem.

It's real easy to complain, but it's harder to come up with a way to resolve this situation.

This isn't Skip Gates talking on the telephone in his own damn house, this is a racist drunk yelling at everyone around him (and sitting in a seat he didn't purchase, too) and refusing to comply with the civil requests of the security guards, who then called the police in.

How should they have managed this?

[MercutioATC]

23. Actually, Tasers WERE made for "jerks"...

...or anybody else who resists being taken into custody.

A Taser is a tool used to facilitate restraint.

[kentuck]

29. They were putting the cuffs on him and he was not resisting...

Then some asshole with a badge and a taser comes up behind him and tasers him. Totally uncalled for. I hope he sues their ass for so much they can't afford a police force.

[MADem]

33. What was he saying to the cop? Did you even read the notes with the video?

The part where the guy who made the film said that the racist drunkard the cops tased had no intention of going along quietly? Hmmmmm?

That guy ain't suing. He'll be paying a fine and court costs at a minimum.

[kentuck]

39. Did you see the handcuffs on the guy?

Did you see the sneaky bastard tase him from behind after the cuffs were on him. It doesn't matter what he said or what he was saying. They had him under control.

[MADem]

42. Did you read the bit where the videographer said that the guy wasn't leaving

quietly no matter what?

Do you know what the man was saying?

You're assuming the tasing was unjustified. They did NOT have him "under control" if he was "under arrest" and refusing to get up so he could be escorted to the cruiser, transported to the jail and booked in.

All the handcuffs did was limit his ability to lash out. If he wasn't obeying the officers, he was NOT "under control."

Sheesh. I'm not shy about saying when the police are wrong, but this spirited defense of a racist, disruptive, obnoxious drunkard who refused to follow the polite requests of ballpark security and verbally harassed KIDS here is sure interesting to behold.

[notesdev]

17. It was punishment pure and simple

Zero violence at all from the drunk guy.

Who needs a court? Just let the cops administer street justice.

[MADem]

18. You don't call the harassment of the kids and the racist slurs he directed at the security people

at all problematic? There was a "wind up" to this arrest that was not "caught on tape" you know.

[notesdev]

21. It's immaterial - he was non-violent

"Sticks and stones may break my bones..." - I'm sure you heard this one in elementary school, or earlier.

There is NO excuse to use violence on a non-violent person, ever. Anyone who would condone that is a bully and a thug.

[MADem]

22. OK, what should they have done? Let him sit there and swear and make racist comments?

Allow him to continue to frighten and intimidate those around him?

Wrestled him out of those small aisles on a steep incline?

Come on--you're the cop. You've just gotten the report from the security guards about a racist drunk bothering kids in a seat that he is not assigned to. The guy is belligerent and verbally abusive.

GO..! You grab two subordinates, but YOU are in charge.

What do you do? Come on, solve the problem!

[notesdev]

24. I would do

what cops did in that situation before they got tasers.

This isn't brain surgery here. Cops somehow managed to do just fine before they became freelance torturers.

[MADem]

26. Explain--in detail. Before cops got tasers, they subdued a

combative guy challenging arrest with pepper spray, billy clubs, wrestling, choke holds, and things of that nature.

Which would you use? On a steep incline in a crowded venue in a tight aisle?

Please be specific. And do read the notes accompanying the video so you understand clearly that this guy had "no intention of leaving calmly on his own."

[notesdev]

27. Your line of questioning is nonsense

I don't have to be an expert in police techniques to know that situations like the one on the video must have happened many times before the days of tasers.

Police cannot simply tase people because it's easier than doing their jobs the old way. That's how a police state operates, not a free country. I hope the loudmouth jerk sues the hell out of them and wins big.

[MADem]

28. Ahh, ya got nothing, so you say my line of questioning is nonsense.

You said you'd handle this the way they did in the old days.

I gave you a laundry list of how things were handled in those old days.

You reply with "Your line of questioning is nonsense."

It's not nonsense. You said you'd do it another way, and I want to know precisely HOW.

Stop stalling.

Tell us how you would have gotten that racist, swearing, belligerent, kid-harassing drunk out of there. Be specific. Would you wrestle the guy out of that tight space on a steep incline, risking injury to you and your officers? Would you beat the guy into submission with your nightsticks? Would you pepper spray him, and the crowd around him? Come on, what would you do?

And keep in mind that, per the videographer, he wasn't going to leave calmly on his own. You're gonna have to shift that tub o'drunken lard. You're criticizing these guys, tell us what the "right" way is.

It's really easy to tell people what they did wrong. It's a bit harder to tell people how to do something "right."

You're making the claim that these police were wrong. What's the better way? If you can't come up with something that will move this obnoxious, recalcitrant and racist drunkard without causing injury to the police or the citizenry around this guy, I'll have to assume you're just flapping your gums.

I don't hesitate to gripe about the police when they overstep. I don't think they did in this case. You, apparently, do, and I want to know how you'd do it "better," eh?

[notesdev]

30. No, you're being disingenuous and are deliberately deflecting the central issue

which is that the cop in no way had to use that taser. It was a purely voluntary act, in defense of no one, and was not required in any way to conduct an arrest.

Tasers are supposed to be substitutes for shooting people, not substitutes for getting down and dirty and doing your job.

You sound like a cop's wife who doesn't give a damn what happens to anyone else if it makes life safer and easier for hubby.

[MADem]

32. WHAT should he have DONE, then? Answer the frigging question.

You're saying "Ewwww, that's baaaaaaad," and not giving us any viable options.

WHAT should he have done?

No, tasers are NOT "supposed to be substitutes for shooting people." That's yet another blazing misapprehension on your part.

Tasers are used to ensure compliance when it can't be obtained by simply asking the arrestee to follow directions.

They're favored over using hands-on physical force with a subject because a short zap to a suspect beats the officer wrestling with the guy, getting injured, and ending up on workman's comp for months.

They're also favored over beating the shit out of a guy with a nightstick, because you end up having to take the guy to the hospital for broken bones and bleeding and so forth.

It's always fun to speculate, isn't it? It sure beats answering a direct question, doesn't it?

"You sound like a cop's wife...." is a lame-ass retort. Did you think you were hurting my feelings with that snark?

I'll tell you what you sound like: You sound like someone without an answer to my VERY SIMPLE question, who is trying to bluff their way out of a hole they've dug.

Come on, whiz kid--how would you handle this? Be sure to read the background notes, so you know exactly what this guy was up to before the film started rolling....come on, out with it! You're criticizing the cops like crazy, here, now tell them what they should have done! Hurry up, now, we're waiting!

What. Would. You. Do?

[TXRAT2]

34. I want to know how you'd do it "better," eh?

I'm afraid your going to be in for a long wait. I was a peace officer for 22 years and I can tell you exactly how I would have handled it back in the early 70's. Had I had a partner he would have come around from behind and put a baton across his throat and held him there until I could cuff him. Had I been alone I would have simply slapped him in the ear with a 10 ounce lead sap and then cuffed his unconscious arrogant obnoxious ass and drug him down the steps, in either case he was in for a world of pain. Now we can use a taser and about the worst that will happen is all the guff he going to take from the other drunk's in jail as they rib him for messing his pants. I wonder which one our friend here would prefer?

[MADem]

36. I am not a peace officer, and I was one who took issue with the way Skip Gates was dealt with.

However, I watched the video, then I read the notes made by the videographer, and I watched the video again.

I don't know what else those police might have done, especially since the videographer said the guy was not gonna leave quietly, had been bullying kids sitting behind him, was using profanity in a family venue, was drunk as a lord on vodka, and had used racist language when the security guards asked him to tone it down. Oh, and he had a ticket, but that wasn't his seat!

I think that guy, for whatever reason, was seeking a confrontation. Self-destructive nature, perhaps?

[Flaneur]

37. Combative guy? He was sitting there mouthing off.

There were several cops there. They could have just handcuffed him, as they were in the process of doing when that thuggish cop tased him. Glad you're not a cop, by the way.

[MADem]

43. You obviously didn't read the videographer notes. The guy WAS combative.

The videographer said that the guy had no intention of going in a calm fashion.

He called the security guards who called for the cops racist names.

He bullied the kids sitting behind him.

He was drinking vodka nips and acting like a loud jerk.

What should the police have done? Sat there and LET him act like a racist drunken shithead, with little kids around? When do the rights of the people who paid good money to see that game, and who don't need to listen to racist invective and verbal abuse, trump the rights of a drunken asshole? When does that tipping point happen?

I'm glad you're not a cop. If you were, I'd have to go buy a damn gun, because you clearly wouldn't be capable of protecting or serving--you haven't the decision-making skills to so do.

[TXRAT2]

31. I would do what cops did in that situation before they got tasers.

So you would rather slap them upside the head with a 10 ounce sap or just pop them a couple of times above the ears with a baton, which is it?

[Xicano]

4. Sometimes they get their own medicine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aDupUjeNRA

[MADem]

6. You're siding with the racist drunk who was swearing at the kids behind him and calling the

guards who told him to tone it down racist names? The one getting "medicine"--deservedly--was the racist drunk who wouldn't ratchet it back a few notches.

Your tape is of obvious abuse. That's not the case in this OP video. Per the "associated content" with the video, he guy was asked to tone it down by ballpark guards, and he responded with racial invective. That's when they called in the Taser Club. I don't blame them. I wouldn't put up with that kind of shit from a racist drunk, either.

[Xicano]

10. Can you show me where I sided with a racist drunk?

Thank you, I didn't think so...

Now maybe don't be so presumptuous.


n/t

[MADem]

14. Your subject line and content certainly suggest solidarity against the cops.

And if that's not what you meant, what was your point in posting that video?

Your attempt to deflect was not successful.

[Flaneur]

40. Solidarity against thuggish cops.

Note the gratuitious use of the nightstick by one of the cops.

It seemed for a few seconds the cops at the As game were going to generate something similar. People don't take kindly to what they perceive to be police brutality. Riots get started that way.

[MADem]

44. The second video IS horrible, but it has nothing to do with the first one. NT

[Hassin Bin Sober]

38. LOL. Run little piggies. This should happen more.

[Taitertots]

7. Screw that guy

The police should not have to put themselves in undue danger to protect obnoxious, drunken, assholes. Not to mention the people a drawn out fight would endanger.

Don't ever under estimate the fight in a drunk. I've had to try and get wild drunken friends under control without hurting them and it is not easy even with 5 people.

[Kievan Rus]

8. I'm waiting for them to taze a Sox fan at a Yankees game

Just 'cause he's a Sox fan.

Most cops are just a bunch of authoritarian jerks.

[MADem]

16. Well, this "fan" was harassing kids sitting behind him, and using racist invective at the

security guards who asked him to tone it down. He was drinking little bottles of vodka and was FUBAR.

I think if a Sox OR Yankees fan got that out of hand, they'd have some trouble, and it would be deserved.

People go to the park to watch the game, not be frightened of drunken assholes sitting in seats they didn't pay for and scaring the shit out of those around them.

It was the security guards who called the cops--I guess the racist names they were being called ended their efforts to reason with that asshole.

[Speck Tater]

11. Pissing off cops is as dumb as kicking a pit bull in the balls. Expect consequences moron! nt

[Flaneur]

41. Equating cops with pit bulls. That is an illuminating comparison.

But probably not in the way you meant.

[Speck Tater]

45. Cops, pitbulls, black holes, propane tanks, women, ... some things are just plain dangerous! nt

[Tim01]

13. Drunk guy is a dick to police and they taze him instead of beating while arresting.

Which is what they probably would have had to do to get him under control.

[Obamanaut]

19. If this were a poll, I'd vote 'cops did the right thing considering

they were in a crowded area' - but this probably would not have been a choice.

[KamaAina]

35. What is it about Oakland and tasers?

The BART shooting happened because the cop was (he said, anyway) reaching for his penis extension taser and pulled out his other penis extension gun "by mistake".

edit: strikethrough