If Obama really wanted a public option there would be one

[still_one]

It is not a coincidence that bush got the republicans in Congress to vote lock and step

He put pressure on them.

We may have won an election, but it appears that it is the republicans setting the agenda

Time is running out, and where are the deals to push this through? Forget the republicans, I am talking about the blue dogs. Is the administration arm twisting them?

Isn't that why Ralm Emanuel was selected?

[ThomWV]

1. If Obama really wanted Single Payer we could have it too

[still_one]

2. Where is pressure on the Democratic members of Congress that if they don't vote

for it they won't get their pet projects for their respective states

It has been 7 months, and it should be quite obvious that compromise with the republicans will accomplish nothing. The republicans want to see the healthcare plan fail, not only because of conflicts of interest, but also they want to use it as part of the campaign in 2010

It is hard for me to believe that many Democrats in Congress are behaving like they did under bush

It's no wonder we are in such sad shape.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

3. Don't forget Will Rogers

and his quote "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat" :)
Having said that I'm coming to the conclusion that many elected officials calling themselves Democrats vote and think like Republicans........

[elocs]

11. Yes Republicans are more disciplined and willing to stand together against a common foe.

They are willing to put aside personal differences to accomplish what they believe is a common good for their party. Democrats agree with this so they put aside their personal differences in order to do what is best,
for the Republican party (that's not really true, but I think there is ultimately a point to that).

[still_one]

14. It is more than that. Pressure was put on the republicans by the bush administration

Those republicans that were against what the bush administration wanted were told they wold not get their projects in upcoming bills, and that they would not be supported in re-election attempts with money or support

There are some issues that are important enough for this approach, and healthcare is one of them

[PurityOfEssence]

50. Yes: "A remark generally hurts in proportion to its truth."

Whether our President is so corporatist because he truly believes it, is just going along with them until that oft referred-to moment when he'll show his true stripes, sees no other way or is controlled by the powerful, it doesn't really much matter.

The danger of incrementalism is that one can wind up with a boondoggle that's neither fish nor fowl. If mollycoddling the insurance corporations winds up costing us dearly and still doesn't cover the disenfranchised, it's a disaster. The right hates ANYTHING to the left of feudal aristocracy, so the only thing really standing in the way of getting what one wants is a bloc of moderate Democrats. The can be threatened with all sorts of things, including mounting primary challengers. Can you IMAGINE what Lyndon Baines Johnson would have done to these blue dogs? Imagine them being lifted up by their ears...

Middling efforts yield middling results, but the costs are often quite substantial.

[FLAprogressive]

4. You got it.

[scheming daemons]

5. And there WILL be one... what's your point?

[still_one]

15. My point is that it is not in the republicans interest to see a good healthcare bill passed

When I hear the B.S. that we have to take our time to get a good bill, that is total bull

This has been going on since Truman.

They know whats needed, and if they don't have a public option, the bill will be a failure

Not only for those 50 million uninsured, which incidently we are paying a premium price for when they go to the emergency room, but for those that lose their jobs and have pre-existing conditions and cannot afford the current rates of health insurance

My daughter's insurance went up 30% in the last six months.

[Pirate Smile]

6. Dems aren't Republicans and Will Rogers wasn't crazy when he said his famous quote:

I belong to no organized party. I am a Democrat.


We are in the ugly sausage-making part of legislating and, no, Obama doesn't own a f#$king magic wand.

[redqueen]

8. +1

[Nyquil Man]

7. I remember, during the campaign, I would wonder,

"Why doesn't he do this? Why doesn't he do that? This is going to cost him."

Then he'd turn around and calmly do it with the ease of an acrobat.

I'd love to see him do it this time, but I'm a natural skeptic.

[still_one]

20. I hear you, but it all honesty, if mccain had not chosen palin, and presented himself

as he did in 2000, it would have been much more precarious I believe

If we don't have a good healthcare plan it will not only cost Obama, but it will cost us

[Nyquil Man]

28. I see your point, but I think you're giving McCain's incompetence too much credit.

The Obama campaign was a well-oiled machine. It's too easy to say that McCain screwed up. You don't lose just by picking a bad running mate. Otherwise, we probably would have had President Dukakis.

I do think Obama has been entirely too distant on health care. It's hard to escape the notion that he essentially passed the ball to Congress. Maybe he wanted to avoid the problems of 1993, where the gripe was that the plan was prepared in secret. But surely he could have found a happy balance. And surely he could have recognized that, no matter what the plan, the same people would protest.

I see some hints of Obama coming out swinging, but so far they're only hints.

[digidigido]

33. McCain's incompetence was probably an orchestrated part of a grand Rovian scheme

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. If Obama wanted a bill for digging a tunnel to the moon, there would be one.

Getting it to work would be the tricky part.

[still_one]

17. You don't think they know what is needed to get it to work? Sure they do

this has been in discussions at least since Harry Truman

The problem is their are too many conflicts of interests involved

If there is a sizable minority out there that believes the garbage the republicans a spewing, then the Democrats are not doing a very good job presenting it

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

21. That's my point.

They're having a hard time getting it through as it is.

[still_one]

23. You're right /nt

[liberal N proud]

10. bush got the republicans in Congress to vote lock and step because they were republican

Democrats don't play strict party politics.

Like us, they think and think for themselves and some are easily persuaded.

The Democratic party is almost like have two parties within one, the liberals and the left of right Democrats or blue dogs.


Its just not as easy for a Democratic President to control a Democratic Congress as it is republican.

[still_one]

24. He also put pressure on those republicans telling them they would never get bills

that they wanted for their projects presented

[jody]

12. I don't agree, Obama does not have overwhelming support among 100 Senators and 435 Congresspersons.

Moreover corporatists control both congress and the president and will do as they please as long as their actions do not provoke the electorate to revolt at the ballot box and reclaim our government.

What ever health care emerges, corporatist fat cats will get richer and We the People will get a few crumbs.

ON EDIT ADD:

[still_one]

22. I am talking the Democrats. Bills that the blue dogs want can be delayed and

never brought up. There are all kinds of pressures that can be exerted

After seven months forget about the republicans, they do not want compromise. In fact they have told us their strategy, to see it fail, whether that is in no healthcare bill, or a badly written one, it doesn't matter to them.

[jody]

30. There are 52 Blue Dog Democrats in the House and they allow Pelosi to be Speaker. Most of those

congresspersons won very narrow victories in the last election with lots of Independent votes and some Republican votes.

Whether you agree with their position on issues or not, each of them knows that she/he must represent their constituents to get reelected in 2010 and without their reelection we Dems could easily lose control of the House.

I know that as do Pelosi and Obama. :shrug:

[still_one]

35. For the last 8 years many Democrats were afraid to take a stand

Afraid to rock the boat. From the Patriot act to the invasion of Iraq

Daschille was no leader, and neither is Reid.

It is about time the Democrats take a strong stand, they ran on Healthcare, and yet it appears they shrink whenever the republican propaganda machine misrepresents them

Obama learned from the mistakes of Kerry when he did not fight the brazen swift-boat ads, but then as now, the Congressional Democrats did not come on board to get the message out

If they do not get a viable healthcare plan this year, they will not only lose in 2010, but the Democrats, and country will be in far more peril

When you saw the initial polls saying 70% of the people support healthcare, and a public option, and now today that poll is about 55% that support it, that has everything to do with the Democrats not being able to get their message out

If Lyndon Johnson was President, it would happen. Most of the Democrats today do not have the stomach to play the game

[jody]

40. LBJ had years of political experience and a favorable political climate. n/t

[TheBigotBasher]

39. If they lose

it is because they did not keep their promise to the constituents who voted for them onhealth care, never mind cutting back on Presidential campaign promises such as "make work pay". Of course the blue dogs will present as the Obama programme was too Liberal so they lost their seat, despite how far from the truth it is.

[jody]

47. My guess is Obama and the Blue Dog Coalition will reach a compromise & both sides will claim victory

[Eric J in MN]

13. There probably will be a public option. NT

NT

[still_one]

19. If there is a public option, it will succeed. However, it appears we are not winning

the fight right now. The anti-health care groups are not only louder, but much more organized

[mzmolly]

16. He'll get one.

I agree, Rahm was supposed to be our "enforcer".

[still_one]

18. I agree there will be one, but if it doesn't address the 50 million uninsured it will fail /nt

[Eric J in MN]

25. Increasing the number of insured is the most likely thing the bill will accomplish.

Getting millions of people who-are-now-uninsured insured by subsidizing their premiums with federal money and making it mandatory to have health insurance.

People who want more people insured win, and the insurance companies win.

[mzmolly]

34. Agreed. Olbermann had a guy from the Nation on last night (name fails me now, sorry.)

Anyhow, he insisted that we are attempting bipartisanship for political cover, but rightly pointed out that the Republicans we're working with will not end up voting for the bill, regardless. And, even if they did, whatever we do will be attacked under the "Democrats did the wrong thing" premise. As such, he suggested that we have to focus on getting a GOOD BILL vs. one with perhaps a republican vote or two. In other words, screw political cover. We'll be attacked no matter what we do, we might as well please reasonable citizenry vs. piss EVERYONE off, left and wRong.

[still_one]

38. The republicans want it to fail. They have told us their strategy

Our leadership in Congress should get the hint

Actually, Peolsi has recognized this lately

[HamdenRice]

26. If the Republicans are setting the agenda, why are we even debating health care overhaul?

They don't want anything. So your claim is illogical.

[HughMoran]

27. Did I miss something?

Did the Dems come back from recess and vote on a plan without a public option?

Did Obama stop travelling around putting pressure on Congressman?

What did I miss?

[stray cat]

29. The same goes for peace on earth and good will between all

:sarcasm:

[TheWraith]

31. Have you ever tried to get Democrats to work in unison? Herded fucking cats. nt

[still_one]

37. A hell of a lot of Democrats had no problem voting for the Patriot Act

or going into Iraq

Is this not an even more pressing issue?

[stray cat]

32. With that logic - if America wanted one we would have it so American's don't want it

[still_one]

36. If the leaders they elected cannot sell the idea, whose fault is it?

[jody]

41. Perhaps the idea hasn't been made clear. n/t

[still_one]

44. and whose fault is that? I am not trying to be a wise guy, I am serious

If the Democrats who ran for public office don't have the passion to express, (or sell those ideas), are they up to the job?

[jody]

46. I believe you and I agree. I see no evidence that Dems in the House and Senate have a plan. All I've

heard are several ideas in late stages of development.

I appreciate the problem Dems have with internal strife and Repub opposition.

Perhaps what congress has as a plan(s) is the best anyone can do under the circumstances particularly with all the help and guidance they are receiving from the health care lobbies with big bucks to finance political campaigns.

The problem is not as simple as "single payer" or "public option" because the devil is always in the details and IMO that appears to be stifling progress.

[still_one]

49. That is the real problem, there is no plan because we fell into the trap to delay it

so all we are talking about is whatever trial ballon is floated before the talking heads

[Orsino]

42. If Congress really wanted one, he'd already have one to sign into law. n/t

[jody]

43. Absolutely correct. n/t

[MrMickeysMom]

45. If Congress was serious, they'd ask the CBO to score a Single Payer model!

I'll go you one better...

I called everyone one of those "on the fence" after calling supporters of single payer...

NO ONE has, to my knowledge requested that it be scored. My understanding is THIS is where it begins.

There are some things that don't change, and all I can hope for is for US TO KEEP CALLING THEM. Oh, and if any of us have a chance of going to a REAL town hall meeting, we're going to have to have a megaphone to make the same point.

The system, she be a failing, so we better continue flailing. :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

[jody]

48. Excellent point re CBO scoring a Single Payer model. n/t

[GodlyDemocrat]

51. If there is no public option, I cannot support universal healthcare

The insurance companies will just create artifical shortages for health care.