Is it true that there will be MANDATORY health insurance under the current plan?

[FLAprogressive]

I don't believe that anyone should be *forced* to have any healthcare if they choose not to. Is it true that there is a mandate under this plan???

(EDIT: I'm talking about a plan without a public option....which let's face it looks like it's gonna be gutted thanks to lobbyists. My concern is that if there is no public option -- citizens would be FORCED to line the pockets of big insurance)

[WonderGrunion]

1. Maybe

The plan isn't finalized for vote yet and that was one of several things being discussed.

[Warpy]

2. Universal coverage means everybody is covered

but if there isn't an affordable public option with subsidies for marginal workers, the concept is utterly useless.

Universal coverage is how the pool is widened to include the healthy young adults who think they'll never get old or sick, along with the people who have gotten sick and can't get for profit insurance. It's also how to make sure low wage workers get health insurance.

Right wingers screech you will be FORCED to have health insurance. Well, you're FORCED to breathe oxygen and you're FORCED to drink fluids.

Please stop listening to spin.

[FLAprogressive]

4. Well I've heard complaints about it on here so I wanted to see if it was true or not

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=222x66079

"Mandatory health coverage is absured, and so is the co-op proposal. That would simply put the "public option" in the pockets of the insurance companies and force the 50 million into the hands of a corrupt bunch of corporations that would send their profits soaring, and give us more of the same."

My idea of universal coverage is that anyone who wants health insurance should be able to have it....regardless of age/income/pre-existing conditions/etc.

IIRC The Netherlands allows people to opt-out if they don't want health insurance.

[SteelPenguin]

3. Why don't you think it should be mandatory?

Without it being mandatory the healthy can't the overall system achieve a balance. Plus if someone 'chooses' to not pay into the system, which doesn't have penalties for joining, then when they get up shit creek they can join the system.

Non-Mandatory either means that people can rip off the system by not paying money for insurance, while still getting coverage when something goes wrong, OR we have a system that allows pre-existing conditions to prevent health care coverage leading to people in bad situations skimping on health care for a few months while they find a new job and coming down with an illness or accident which bankrupts them.

Which of those alternatives do you support over mandatory coverage, and why?

[FLAprogressive]

6. If there's no public option it definitely shouldn't. Why should we be forced to line the pockets of

insurance companies?

[Echo In Light]

12. And what happens to the poor who can't afford it?

[FLAprogressive]

14. We need a public option -- any healthcare proposal without one should not pass

Then no one could be FORCED to line the pockets of big insurance

[CTyankee]

26. If you can afford health insurance and don't get it, what happens ifyou have an emergency

of catastrophic dimensions and must be rushed to the hospital?

Something that awful could put you into bankruptcy fast. You could lose your home and be stripped of your assets in order to pay your huge hospital bill.

While I agree with you on the public option and will fight alongide you for it, I just wonder if you've thought this thing out...you could wind up with a lot bigger problems...

[SteelPenguin]

17. Subsidies

sChip is subsidized but goes through private plans not a government 'public' plan. We use it with our kids and love it. What's wrong with public subsidies, but no public plan itself?

[ThomWV]

13. If insurance is manditory then the Public Option will have to be free

Free in the sense that it will have no cost to the individual other than the taxes they pay. Which is the definition of Single Payer if you ask me.

[SteelPenguin]

19. I think this is the best option

However there are other options which I like as well.

Mandatory insurnace, with a public option (taxes on everyone, coverage for everyone) and if people would rather choose a private plan that competes with the government one they're free to do so, and they aren't taxed.

the reason they don't want that is the same reason they tried to crush sChip. Even though it's a subsidy system peopel choose it over private plans because it's much cheaper, and provides better coverage. They don't want a public plan because if they do, in 10 years everyone will be on it because it'll be better than any private plan.

[SteelPenguin]

16. What about public subsidies

What if there is no public 'option' but if you make under a certain amount the goverment pays for the care? Sort of like sChip now. We have our kids on sChip (it's much less expensive than going up to a 'family' health care plan) and they are insured through a private company, but the state pays for most of the coverage.

I don't necessarily think a public plan is necessary as long as the government pays for the private plan involved. If you make under a certain amount the government pays for all.

[Romulox]

21. Why not just send a certain % of my pay directly to foreign investors?

Then let me alone to participate in not-for-profit healthcare? :hi:

[Romulox]

20. Because I don't think our government should order us to buy products from private, for-profit

entities.

[SteelPenguin]

30. What if there were a non-profit option?

What if there were a non-profit insurance company that you could pick to cover you? one Wholey American 'owned', and where the goal is to offer efficient inexpensive coverage, without making a profit.

Would you be ok with a system that gave you that option, where other people were free to choose their own profit plans?

It seems to me that the problem is that right now the system gives no choice to the customer at all, so there really isn't any competition with the health care companies.

1) Make insurance mandatory

2) Make it individual or family, but not through your company. Ie you get it yourself, and pick it yourself, like it's your car insurance.

3) No preexisting conditions. You are on an insurance plan. If you want to swtich to another one you can do so at anytime for no penalty. The only reason to stay on a particular plan is you like the cost of that plan vs the benefits of that plan...like your 401K and how it's dispursed, or who manages it.

4) Have the government set a base level of care (the number of physicals and doctor visits a year to be fully covered, what procedures are covered etc)

5) Government subsidies for those at certain income levels like they currently do for sChip and Medicaid.


That way everyone buys, everyone shares the risks and rewards, the poor can afford it, people can choose which coverage they want, but all the coverage packages will have a basic minimum of care laid out by the government, and the insurance c ompanies compete against each other, so the one with 20% overhead is going to have to charge more or give less service than the one with 5% overhead, or the one with huge profits will charge more than the non-profit, and they'll compete against each other promoting good companies via the free market.

My problem with teh current argument is that people are talking as if the free market as failed with the insurance companies. What free market? They've got a monopoly and collude together to rip everyone off. Make them actually compete against each other for defined services and you'll see those prices drop like a rock.

[Romulox]

37. Maybe, but your proposal is not what the President et al. are proposing...

In the first place, the employer-provided-healthcare paradigm will remain under all current proposals. In the second, the "public option" will not be open to all Americans under most proposals. Finally, if you say:

"My problem with teh current argument is that people are talking as if the free market as failed with the insurance companies. What free market? They've got a monopoly and collude together to rip everyone off,"

how can you justify ordering every American to turn over profits to these guys?

"Make them actually compete against each other for defined services and you'll see those prices drop like a rock."

Can you name any other captive market in which competition flourishes? Basic economic theory suggests that the efficiency of consumer choice is only effective when consumers have a choice of not buying the product at all! In any other scenario, safe in the knowledge that each American will have to purchase insurance from one of them, the big providers can easily behave like a cartel (OPEC, e.g.) agreeing amongst themselves formally or informally not to go below certain price "floors".

[scheming daemons]

5. Are you sure you are a "progressive"? Unless it is UNIVERSAL, it doesn't work

Social Security is MANDATORY. Everyone must pay into it. The concept doesn't work unless it included everyone.



Why would someone with "progressive" in their name be echoing a RW talking point?

[FLAprogressive]

10. If there is no public option, there should be no mandate. If there is, I am OK with a mandate.

I have heard complaints from others and I just wanted to know what this entailed....

[Romulox]

22. UNIVERSAL (sic) insurance isn't terribly "progressive".

Actually, it seems downright corporatist to me. :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Mandatory isn't the problem.

Mandatory private for-profit insurance is the problem.

[FLAprogressive]

11. Exactly....I suppose I should have clarified in my OP.

[Armchair QB]

8. From what I've read it will be mandatory

which means my choice to have or not have coverage will be taken away

[RaleighNCDUer]

15. See post #2

and drop a line when you have to pay for that emergency appendectomy out of pocket.

I'll be happy to laugh at you.

[FLAprogressive]

18. I just want to know -- if there is no public option....why should it be mandatory?

If there is a public option I'm fine with a mandate...if there is not I don't think we should be forced to line Blue Cross's pockets.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Blue Cross is far from the worst offender, but I agree with you.

The public option is not optional - it is the absolute minimum acceptable.

A mandate without a public option simply won't work. It would do NOTHING to reduce costs - it would probably INCREASE costs, as the government opens a tap for the private insurers to drain the treasury.

Very, very few people as so stupid as to believe "I'm healthy, I don't need insurance" for the very reason I mentioned - there is always a chance of sudden catastrophic illness or accident. You may be healthy, eat well, not smoke, exercise regularly, but that won't keep you from having to pay the hospital when some moron runs a red light and splatters you and your reclining bike all over the sidewalk.

The vast majority who 'choose' to do without are actually making a Hobson's choice between health insurance and rent.

Then again, there are those who worry about their 'choice' to have or not have insurance.

Fuck em.

[Armchair QB]

43. I'd rather file bankruptcy than have the government force me to pay

for medical insurance I don't want or need.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. So, when you declare your bankruptcy I am supposed to pay your bill?

What are you, some kind of fucking socialist?

[Armchair QB]

45. you're demanding to pay my bill via taxes, I'm just letting you do it

without the government making me pay for insurance I don't want or need

[RaleighNCDUer]

46. Ah, the Randian speaks.

Translates as "Fuck you, Jack, I got mine."

Crawl back under your bridge.

[Armchair QB]

48. When your medical card becomes a real id card and you've got

a GPS chip that lets Big Brother know where you are 24/7, you'll be looking back thinking about how great it was to have the option to file bankruptcy.

the pubes will take that medical insurance and have you doing mandatory jumping jacks and stretches before your big tv monitor the first chance they get

[Peacetrain]

27. see post 23..

[dhpgetsit]

31. People who choose not to have insurance would drive up the costs for those who do.

And they would also be SOL if they suddenly were diagnosed with cancer or something.

There is always the option of moving to Somalia.

[ThomWV]

9. That plus Tort Reform - amazing, isn't it?

[Peacetrain]

23. You will have to choose coverage from one plan or another.. private or public

Everyone has to jump into the pool.. no body gets to sit on the sidelines, and then run to the emergency room for primary care. It is expensive, and inadequate. Many people now use that emergency room because they cannot afford insurance. But you also have a whole bunch of people who are younger who turn down insurance because it costs money, and when you are first starting out, that money is near and dear.. and you feel like nothing bad could ever happen to you

[FLAprogressive]

25. My concern is people being forced to buy into PRIVATE plans with NO public option

[Amos Moses]

35. My question is, what exactly does the public option entail and

who will be eligible to opt into it? Everything I've heard indicates if your current insurance premiums are prohibitively expensive, or it covers very few of your expenses, you will be stuck with it. You won't be able to choose the public plan. Considering all that, why are we going to spend a trillion dollars on this bullshit? Why are we calling it a "public option" if people can't opt into it?

[Romulox]

24. You got it. Americans will be forced to buy for-profit health insurance, under penalty of law.

[Echo In Light]

28. Thus making your avatar all the more apropos

[berni_mccoy]

34. Incorrect. The public option will not be for-profit.

[Amos Moses]

36. Do we even know what the public option consists of at this point?

I thought all that was still being debated.:shrug:

[Romulox]

39. Right, but most people won't be eligible for the so-called "public option".

As we proved on your thread, which you thereafter abandoned. Remember? :hi:

[Amos Moses]

40. Do I have this right?

What I've heard indicates that no matter how expensive and/or how little coverage your current insurance might offer, you would be stuck with it in almost every case.

It's being called a public option but I don't understand why. If it's an option, shouldn't people be able to opt into it?

I get the feeling they are about to pull another swindle on us.

[stranger81]

42. Precisely. It's like tithing to the insurance companies.

That, my friends, is not change we can believe in.

[graywarrior]

29. I have mandatory health insurance where I live

I pay nothing for it. When my income goes up, I will pay a monthly premium...gladly because I will be able to afford it. It is good coverage and includes a discount at the gym, dental coverage, and prescriptions. I just got signed up and am very relieved to have it.

[dysfunctional press]

32. which "current plan" are you referring to...?

aren't there at least five different plans in the works?

NOTHING is finalized yet- so it's WAY too early to get your undies in a bunch over it.

BUT- IF there ends up being mandatory insurance requirements and no real public option at the very least, the democratic party will be finished.

[redqueen]

33. Which current plan?

There are a few versions.

[dionysus]

41. there is no final plan yet, and you know it.

[rucky]

47. If it's forced without a public option...

it's no different from a racketeering scheme. I won't pay.