We were not allowed in to bushco's town hall meetings

[proud patriot]

just some random thoughts flying around .....

When someone quietly turned their back on bush he was escorted out ..

When republicans are in power they screen out every person who doesn't agree with them .
Even Gold Star Moms were arrested when they tried to attend bush town hall meetings.

Seems like republicans hate freedom and democracy to me

[Wickerman]

1. K&R

:hi:

[proud patriot]

3. Hi

you coming back to the hot tub soon ?:loveya:

[Wickerman]

hey!

time will tell!

Keep it good and warm. :pals:

Excellent post, btw. One of so many insults to democracy that I've tried to erase from my mind, glad you refreshed it.

[proud patriot]

14. LOL I've tried to forget too

but those years were so traumatic I'm sure it's all etched
in my mind somewhere .

(checking the heat on the hot tub)

[spanone]

2. while using freedom and democracy to justify their actions

they are a sick lot

[ejpoeta]

4. only when they are in charge. now they are all about freedom and democracy...

they want to scream and shout and disrupt. i have no trouble with someone having a concern they want to address with their representative, or another for that matter. but to go in there with the intent to disrupt the discourse and try to prevent a true discussion says more than anything else. because perhaps if people actually found out what the health care reform would mean, or actually expressed a desire for public option or single payer even, and we saw that people actually want these things, then we might get them. if they can shut down the discussion, then they win.

[proud patriot]

15. agreed

:hi:

[berni_mccoy]

5. EXACTLY! K&R.

[malaise]

6. And the media hacks who are discussing

'democracy' were silent. Indeed their hacks called Bush critics unpatriotic.

Suddenly 'orchestrated public protest' is good.

[proud patriot]

16. If it weren't for the few Liberal voices in the media

I'd likely to have lost my mind by now .

[csziggy]

7. They screened people that he would see driving **TO** his "town meetings"

And put the ones that didn't "look right" out of sight. My sister repeatedly tried to demonstrate along his routes from when Shrub ran in 2000 right up until he left office. She spent a lot of time in the "free speech zones" that were carefully situated out of the sight of the motorcades.

[proud patriot]

19. Yep those First Amendment Zones ...GRRRRR

:grr:

[AlbertCat]

57. They screened people

We can't screen people like the scaredy cat Repugs.

But can we not start the meeting with an announcement ( by someone other than the speaker but someone with some authority) that shouting and disruptions will not be tolerated and any such agitators will be escorted from the meeting so that those who want to hear what is to be said may do so? Announce this as a rule of the meeting from the start.

The local police SHOULD be there already to protect any Dem Senator or Rep anyway now that the fake duped "protesters" have proven to be violent and disruptive.

Set the rule before the meeting starts. "If you cannot abide by these rule, please leave now."

[fuzzy britches]

8. They invented 'First Amendment Zones'

So much for the Bill of Rights.
I'm not all that thrilled with some people who have visions of highly restricted Second Amendment Zones, to be honest.

[KansDem]

31. I may be wrong, but didn't "First Amendment Zones" originate with Bill Clinton?

I thought it was somewhat of a compromise. Anti-abortion protesters would block women's clinics to prevent anyone from entering them. And they claimed doing this was protected by the First Amendment, although the intent was to intimidate and harass women attempting to enter the clinic. In essence they were shutting down the clinics by amassing in front of the doors denying entrance.

Clinton introduced FAZ as a compromise: Anti-abortion protesters were kept away from the front doors. This enabled women to enter but protected free speech for the protesters.

It took Bush and Cheney to transform "First Amendment Zones" into "No Meaningful Free Speech Zones" by moving the zones blocks away, out of the site and ears of those being protested and the media.

[proud patriot]

33. That is my understanding as well

bush did take it to a whole new level

[fuzzy britches]

35. I stand corrected, I was thinking of the so-called 'free speech' zones.

Maybe it was the difference in distance that got me exercised. Thanks for the correction.
\

[KansDem]

39. Hey, welcome to DU, fuzzy britches!

We're always happy to have Kansans here! :hi:

[Cleita]

9. Yep, and remember those journalists who got arrested as late as the

Republican National Convention by the RNC good squad. There has never been any First Amendment Rights for the left only the right. However, attacking a Congressman today, they crossed the line into assault and battery. I hope law enforcement does its job.

[proud patriot]

22. Did they assault a congresscritter ?

woa!

[Cleita]

38. Yep, front page on DU.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4001608

[proud patriot]

41. Cool thanks

:)

[Stephanie]

24. Bloomberg's NYPD arrested hundreds of protestors in 2004

They were jailed in a city bus garage, stinking of oil drips. After the convention was over, they were released and charges were dropped. NYCLU sued. We were not allowed into MIDTOWN MANHATTAN while the RNC was in town. They locked us out of our own city.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. shhhhhh......! stop talking sensibly-

:hi:

k&r

[proud patriot]

23. LOL ..I can't help it

:hi: try as I might ..

[redqueen]

11. K&R - they do hate freedom and democracy.

They don't think they do, but that's because they're so stupid they don't even know what the words mean.

[proud patriot]

25. They tell me I twist the words of the Constitution all the time

:eyes: No dear that's called Comprehension :think:


:pals:

[Robbien]

12. GOPers thought we would do exactly what they are doing now

Since they believe this swiftboating of townhalls is an acceptable course of action, they believed Dems would be knuckle draggers at their townhalls.

GOPers always projecting their evil unto their opponents.

[redqueen]

13. Excllent point... they are masters of projection.

Which is why they think that everyone else is as deceitful, stupid and selfish as they are.

[EFerrari]

17. Exactly. No wonder they hate us. We confuse the hell out of them

by not satisfying their twisted expectations.

[Mnemosyne]

36. You just described most of my relatives. Luckily, most won't speak to me! n/t

[Grinchie]

54. "Masters of Projection" -- Excellent!

They prefer that to the Masters of "I Know You Are But What Am I" argument.

[PatSeg]

49. I think they believe the opposite

They knew that the Dems wouldn't stifle free speech and are using that against us. If our representatives were to restrict people at their town hall meetings, they could call them hypocrites. They take our strengths and try and make them into weaknesses.

[4lbs]

18. Notice that Dubya almost always gave speeches on military bases or aircraft carriers.

That way, they could control who got in and only make him appear in front of people likely to be very supportive of him.

[proud patriot]

26. Yes , I remember threads here discussing that very thing

bush was a scaredy cat IMO

[kleec]

59. Bush on bases

Before being deployed to Iraq my grandson and I were able to grab a few minutes away from the hovering "mom" who happens to be a firm supporter of the GOP. As I was listening to him he said: "You know Gram, Bush is an asshole." Of course I agreed, but then he proceeded to explain to me that all of those op-eds Bush was so fond of on base where all of those military personnel were his backdrops were actually guys and gals who had to be ordered to be there as there were never any volunteers. And, they could not show how they actually felt or they would be punished. So, there was only an appearance of supporting him.

[Faryn Balyncd]

20. K & R

[jimshoes]

21. Didn't the rethugs all

have to sign loyalty oaths to the Fuhrer, er, leader before being permitted to enter into whatever venue the shit for brains was speaking at?

[proud patriot]

27. I do recall parking lot screeners

If you arrived in a car with anti war , liberal stickers
you were not allowed in . There was a story of a Lib who
drove an elderly repuke neighbor who couldn't drive there
himself and neither were allowed in to hear bush .

[livetohike]

28. K + R

:kick:

[EmilyAnne]

29. Very true. Its as if any attempt at transparency becomes a bite in the ass for the Dems.

But, its also an excellent way to shine a light on the idiot mobs.
Too bad for the people showing up to gather real information or ask real questions, of course.

[ColbertWatcher]

30. Here's a threadful of ideas ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6227862&mesg_id=6227862

[Echo In Light]

32. "Free Speech Zones"

[kywildcat]

34. That's because for the first time in memory

a domestic terrorist group could meet without their hoods and robes.

[AspenRose]

37. "Freedom for me, but not for thee"

Pretty much it....

[bertman]

40. Since the House is in recess, I guess we can't expect any kind of leadership on how to

deal with these shitheads in an organized fashion. And, of course, nobody could have imagined that the party of tea bags would pull some shit like this.

Sometimes I wonder what it actually IS that Democratic leadership gets paid for. It sure as hell isn't for having a plan to deal with Republican bullshit.

[proud patriot]

43. here's a cool idea

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6228637

[jpak]

42. Correction: we weren't allowed to be even NEAR bushco's town hall meetings

just sayin'

:hi:

[proud patriot]

44. I stand corrected

[proud patriot]

45. kick for the evening crowd

:kick:

[BirminghamExaminer]

46. Would any of us have gone? I mean really, I couldn't even bear to watch

the man on TV. I was embarrassed everytime he opened his mouth.

[Stargazer09]

56. My thoughts exactly!

It was painful to watch him on TV. I couldn't stand the thought of having to sit through one of his speeches without being able to express my disgust.

[grytpype]

47. Agree 110%

[RedCloud]

48. Basically they have a claque and handpicked reporters.

They are too stupid to deal with a wide range of views.

[Ichingcarpenter]

50. Good point............Now where are the SS?

And the cops where they used to be in the last 8 years?

Nevermind

[sce56]

51. I hear you but like I say about lots of other things "Practice what you preach"

Unlike the Bush admin that practiced "Do as I say not as I do" Which was the key frowning point in every leadership course I took in the Army.

[bridgit]

52. I think republicans are enamored with 'freedom' as an excuse to shutdown democracy & process...

in the course of doing whatever-the-hell they want do do America be damned! But they have no faith, and so no interest in democracy cause they know their policies are unpalatable and will not survive an info-driven popular vote, so? Their resort is to an ever increasing level of violence (soon to become physical unless they are tagged like mad elephants) inversely proportional to the levels of IQ, ignorance and hatred they bring to their own world

But you're right; pull up tapes of the past 8 years of bush softball tournaments one after another, "I just love you prez bush" "I work three jobs just to be able to sing your praises, prez bush" etc & so on, cause they will be the pivot point when we request 'an agreement to be civil' quite nearly, it would seem, in advance of speaking with any republican about anything so as to lift America from the hands of people that don't a shit about her, and if that don't do?

Throw them out: disorderly conduct :cry:

[Echo In Light]

53. Rightists tend to mean the opposite of their rhetoric, or use veiled euphemisms

They take issues that they realize many have a deep emotional bond w/due to childhood-on, pro nationalistic propaganda: patriotism, the flag, the bible, freedom, democracy, etc...but they rarely seem to have any genuine desire for the best intentions of any of those ideals/concepts/beliefs, and instead falsely apply it to their own hateful, exclusionary version that likewise serves to make criticism difficult i.e. during the run up to invading Afghanistan, or Iraq, you were "un-American" for being against WAR.

[bridgit]

55. Yup, they also make their pitch then sell it to the reptilian brain it's much easier that way...

treating people like light switches & spleeper cells: on/off, fight/flight, back/forth, live/die hence the tripe about killing the elderly in their beds - there may seem like nothing in between, nothing in there when looking at a lizard and for ref review the 'pinner' eyes of they such as Mitch McConnell, Beauregard Sessions. They don't care what people have to say, they're just waiting for you to look the other way, or for a dangling participle to yank on either way all of a sudden (or is it?) between the "Huh!?" and the "What the..." they've scampered up your sleeve and onto the top of your head, either way they will disrupt as a first & last resort, either way they are prepared to *fight*...

And I'd like to see Dems pushing back, Dems should have seen this coming

[Echo In Light]

60. Perhaps some don't "push back" because that's not the genuine role/intention

In other words, they buckle, cave in or take a dive as planned. But don't worry, they're 'on the side of The People!'

However, I agree w/Jung, your sig line :)

[Grinchie]

58. Actually, they Like "Patriotism" as a tool more than Freedom.

They believe that Patriotism/Nationalism preempts Freedoms that we have enjoyed for Centuries, simply because Patriots wil remain quiet while the 800 Pound Gorilla of Government Fascism throws them around like a rag doll.

Freedom is an illusion in today's society. We pay indirect Taxes to sustain the Military Industrial Corporate Complex, and have not a clue how our money is being spent. In fact, it's pretty clear that they don't even rely on Tax Dollars anymore, and are fully satisfied that they can get away with bargaining away our future labor by issuing debt.

I'm no teabagger, but I do have issues paying tithes to a system that is unauditable, loses Billions of Dollars, Pokes it nose into other sovereign countrie and funds destabilizing activities, purchases weapon systems that are best left to gather dust than EVER be used, and ignores the well being and health of it's Citizenry.

I don't know if many people have actually tried to read the US CODE: Title 26,TITLE 26—INTERNAL REVENUE CODE but if you try, I challenge you to comprehend it in any meaningful fashion. It is written in such a way as to make interpretation as difficult and strenuous as possible, which by itself is a prima facia indicatior of a type of Fraud.

Ponzi did it, Maddof did it, Enron Did it, Worldcom did it, AIG did it, etc, etc, etc. Now we see that the Federal Reserve is doing the same. The money flows are too big, too opaque, and too Black.

Strangely enough, the Republicans are behind every one of these companies that have committed a fraud, and quite a few Democrats only, so the only indication is that we are infected with Corporatitis which is becoming Terminal.

I don't think the Government is going to be able to prune the diseased branches itself. While I have nothing against fair and honest Taxes, I am against lack of accountability. The Government has played it's hand too far, and I've decided to leave the current economic system and go back to a more sustainable life, free of the tentacles of the current economic system.

It is not until you actually try to live comfortably that you see all of the mechanisms put in place by the Government to extract a percentage of your wealth at every point. For example, if you work for a wage, the Company immediately reports all of your income, shaves a chunk off the top, and then gives you what is left over. If you want to see any of that money ever again, you must file a 1040, which details how the remainder of your money worked for you for that period. If you make an error, the IRS may throw you in Jail for it, thus violating the 5th Amendment.

Yet, the Government gets a free ride, never once accounting for the massive money flows.

If you don't file, you don't get your money back. It's that simple. So, not such a big deal right? Well it is, because in many states, you are not required to file a state return unless tyou file a Federal Return. And here we have the beauty of the scheme. A built in Positive Feedback loop for the benefit of the Tax collector, both Federal and State. Add to the Fraud that their is no Federal Law mandating an Ordinary Individual to file a tax return, yet over the years, people naturally assume that there is. In reality, the only law requiring you to File is the Law of common sense in order to get back the money withheld. Most middle class actually can use those piddling little refunds and go along with the scheme in order to get a few dollars back to spend on their Kids braces.

Do you really think the IRS will penalize you for not filing for your Refund due?

I personally think that Republicans are fully aware of the Tax fraud, since they are in collusion with the Corporate entities that wrote the laws in the First place. The only way that they can fix the taxation system is to impose a flat Consumption Tax on everybody. You buy more, you pay more. No more Opaque Indirect taxes.

[bridgit]

62. Mm hm, that's the stuff they pump here, when peddling actions elsewhere however...

it's 'bringing inalienable god given rights to freedom, liberty, democracy, press, assembly, justice for all for the entire human race, etc' and that's a very wide, blousey barroom berth to roam around in. Which is part of why health care disruptor's haven't as yet developed a handle on 'patriotism' as their splitting maul preferring to frame the matter as one of personal freedom to choose, to live, to pay exorbitant sums, and free to be denied services and preemptive regimens

[Grinchie]

64. There have been many instances of Capitalism suppressing innovation.

One only need to look at Nikola Tesla, and his dealings with J.P Morgan.

The Corporation has a huge advantage in financila backing to manipulate the direction of Industry, Research, and investment. Plus, they have the weherewithall to pay off news media, scientific publications, and general demonize inventors with a variety of tools that they can call upon at a moments notice.

The fact is that people will never understand what freedom is if true freedom is never allowed to flourish in the first place. The only freedom we see right now in America is the Freedom that Corporation have in regards to any accountability for the actions which will affect the population. GM was a great example of and Industry run amok, with the complete collusion of the Federal Government with the excuse that it will create "Jobs". Well, it did, but when it came down to the Road System, we eventually paid for it, and at the same time, financed the destruction of existing Mass Transit systems. It was a lie, all marketing hype that led everyone to believe that owning a car was a smart thing to do.

In order to promote this fraud, they designed far flung suburban communities that were only accessible by car, and promoted trucking systems to support them.

Contrast this with Europe, where that actually value buildings and infrastructure more than 40 years old, and you can see how utterly screwed we really are. But thats the grand plan. Build crap, tear it down, and rebuild again with borrowed money. The trouble is, the Earth is running out of resources. Most of the things needed to rebuild are not manufactured in America anymore. The atmosphere cannot handle the creation of a billion more tons of Concrete, nor do we have the energy to cook it without going broke.

Then they push the same, tired old "Jules Verne" style Boiling Water Nuclear Reactor systems, instead of utilyzing direct Nuclear to Inductive Resonant Coil systems, which are patented, and have been demonstrated as far back as the 1920's by Alfred M. Hubbard, who was a very interesting character.

No, we are in complete control of the Moneylenders, and even a well fed mouse in a cage considers himself free.

[bridgit]

69. "Give me control of a nations money supply, and I care not who makes it’s laws"

pulled this from my journal the links still seem active you may have seen it if not you may appreciate http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x65337

[Echo In Light]

70. Very revealing quote

[Echo In Light]

67. "The money flows are too big, too opaque, and too Black."

Top notch posting

[krispos42]

61. And how often did Bush meet with Gold Star Mom Cindy Sheehan?

I'm thinking it's an integer number x where -1<x<+1

[yodermon]

63. What about Republican Congresspersons' Townhalls?

were the same tactics used there?

[Liberal_Dog]

65. K & R

[silverweb]

66. Exactly.

If Democrats holding town hall meetings would simply restrict attendance to people who actually live in their district, most of this problem would go away.

This would involve no suppression of "freedom," merely reserve seats for the people for whom the meeting is intended -- constituents.

Using a congressional website to confirm residency at the door would take only seconds via Blackberry or iPhone -- http://www.govtrack.us/congress/findyourreps.xpd

It's a perfectly do-able and perfectly reasonable solution.

[fascisthunter]

68. don't hold your breath on the media pointing this out

The media is owned by right wingers. Great point though.