fireman shoots biker in head for biking on busy road

[canucksawbones]

ASHEVILLE, N.C. -- A driver, now identified as an Asheville firefighter, shot a bicycle rider because he was angry the man was riding with his child on a busy road, Asheville police said.


rest of article here

http://www.wyff4.com/news/20187786/detail.html#

[timtom]

1. Paid investigative leave, eh?

God Almighty!!

[csziggy]

13. Why isn't he in jail? Attempted murder admitted and he's not locked up?!

:wtf:

[mwooldri]

30. He is on a half-million bond...

Judge obviously set a high bond given the gravity of the situation, it's possible that he could have been bailed but I don't know.

Plus he hasn't been found guilty yet.

But paid investigative leave? Interesting... I can understand being placed on leave but the paid part boggles me.

[county worker]

2. This story has it all, guns and bicycles on the road.

[gratuitous]

29. Now, if someone was smoking

Boy, we'd have a ring-tail DU discussion. Oh, and someone ideally should have been on the way to or from Olive Garden. With a duck. Carrying the long form birth certificate of Barack Obama. While on a cell phone with Henry Gates. And reading the text version of Sarah Palin's vale as governor.

Wait, this story doesn't have much of anything.

[tblue37]

110. And the duck needs to be wrapped in duck tape and stuck to a portable section of wall. nt

[redqueen]

3. And of course he's on paid leave.

WTF is up with that? x(

Thankfully the guy wasn't hurt, but damn... in front of his toddler, even. :(

[MajorChode]

12. Sometimes civil service and/or union rules dictate paid leave pending an investigation

Many private corporations do the same thing. The leave is charged against their leave balance which would have to be paid to them if they are eventually fired anyway. Even if they fired him on the spot, he's probably still entitled to receive a severance package which includes his accumulated leave. They will most likely conduct an internal investigation and fire him within a few days.

[redqueen]

14. Yeah, thanks... it being union rules makes sense...

but then if it's true that most of these guys are republicans, wouldn't they be anti-union? Or maybe those are two assumptions / generalizations that aren't quite true.

[MajorChode]

47. It wouldn't even matter if he's a non-union member

A union contract covers everyone in the bargaining unit whether they are on the union rolls or not. So unless he's a member of management or some other non-covered position, he is covered by the contract. What is worse is that in almost all instances the union has no choice but to represent him or face getting sued. Many years ago when I was a union steward we had an employee who was in a similar situation and facing a charge of child molestation. We knew he was going to get fired, but we had to go through the motions of representing him anyway. It sure as hell wasn't something we wanted to do, but according to our lawyer it was either do it or face a potential lawsuit.

[redqueen]

51. Thanks again...

just the words 'union rules' is enough for me.

I just wonder how so many who benefit from union rules are still somehow anti-union.

[MajorChode]

53. That is an excellent question

I know a lot of people who are vehemently anti-union who either wouldn't have a job at all or would have a much lower paying job if it weren't for the union.

Sometimes it's based on ideological reasons, but more often than not it's because they are too cheap to pay a few bucks out of every paycheck for their union dues, so they pretend to be against unions so people won't think they are a cheapskate for deriving benefits from something others are paying for.

[proud2BlibKansan]

122. What union do you belong to?

They will defend you if you molest a child?

That's insane.

[MajorChode]

124. I don't belong to a union anymore

Since going into management.

We weren't defending the person for child molestation, but for the managements action of firing the employee. As the employee was fired anyway it wasn't as if we really did anything for them. But we still had to go through the motions and make sure management dotted their i's and crossed their t's.

Any competent union would have done the same thing. As the exclusive bargaining agent for the employees, you don't really have a choice (assuming you don't want to get sued). Fired employees who sue their unions are fairly common, and if the union is negligent in their representation, the ex-employee has a good chance of prevailing.

[Kokonoe]

128. If the union fails to represent its members.

It can be legally dissolved. It can not decide which members get covered. All paying members get representation or else.

[brendan120678]

129. I actually know quite a few pro-labor (union)...

people who are pretty conservative in other aspects.

[redqueen]

131. Well at least they aren't like the hypcritical republicans

happily collecting their Social Security checks while bashing FDR and liberalism in general.

[proud2BlibKansan]

120. Not in my union

If you break the law, you are gone and there's not a thing the union can do to save you.

[MajorChode]

125. That's the case in other disciplinary actions also

But there's still a representation responsibility to insure management follows whatever procedures detailed in the contract, and/or the employee gets whatever severance they are entitled to get.

[Journeyman]

17. What's up with it? Oh, innocent until proven guilty -- that sort of stupid shit . . .

It amazes me, how quickly some people will abandon the concept of rights when presented with a newspaper article.

[redqueen]

26. Did he claim he *didn't* try to shoot a man in the head while the guy's kid was in a toddler seat

behind him?

It amazes me how far backwards some people will bend, ignoring all reason and common sense, in order to appear as uber-liberally-liberal.

[Journeyman]

34. I believe in giving the man his day in court. . .

you're the one hung up on labels.

[redqueen]

35. How do you confuse "paid leave? WTF?" with "he should be locked up with no trial!!!!1111"

:eyes:

[Journeyman]

36. You're the one who wishes to strip him of his livelihood before he's been tried. . .

so why don't you explain it to me?

[redqueen]

39. Why don't you go waste someone else's time?

:hi:

[Iggo]

101. And he should be sitting in the local lockup til his court-date.

He shot a guy in the head because traffic was too slow for him.

[Obamanaut]

37. "innocent until proven guilty" is a fun phrase to work with.

If person A shoots person B, person A is guilty immediately. Even if he is acquitted, he is still guilty.

[MajorChode]

50. Look a bit more carefully at the article

It says,

"Police: Asheville Firefighter Shot Bicyclist" (emphasis added).

In other words, it's not the paper saying he did it. It's the police. The police and prosecutors are allowed a bit more leeway in saying someone did something, because when a person is charged with a crime, that's exactly what they are doing. The person is still allowed the presumption of innocence by the courts, but in an adversarial system, someone has to point the finger at him and say he did it in order to make the argument for guilt.

[paulsby]

54. that's journalistic style

it's how they have to write.

read a newspaper article, they always say "police say" or "witnesses say" or whatever.

iow, they have to attribute the source. unless the writer PERSONALLY WITNESSED the shooting, the newspaper will always write it that way.

journalism 101

[LanternWaste]

93. Precisely how does a posted opinion affect his rights?

Precisely how does a posted opinion affect his rights? Are the posts here read into the court record? Is the consensus opinion of DU legislated in a law? Are any cries of guilt (or innocence) from a message board consequential to his eventual sentencing. Does a dialog's conclusion of guilt or innocence have consequence to this case?
\


Or (and I find this more likely)... People discuss matters. People perceive scenarios with non-direct affect on our lives though both an academic and a visceral lens, allowing both prognostications and interpretations of a scenario and a possible conclusion which lacks any consequence, legal or otherwise, direct or not.

I myself am more amazed that anyone one may be so naive as to think that the opinion of an situation as seen from the juror's measured, thoughtful and weighty seat would be perceived with the same cavalier attitude as on a message board.

Yet not *that* amazed as I allow some considerations... as I've noticed many DU members translate even the merest flight of fancy, if written in post-form as a direct manifesto, dogmatic in structure, absolute in content, and written in stone... when they are really no more than simple, personal explorations of an ever-changing and transmuting mind, ready to re-evaluate at a moment's notice.

[G_j]

23. the kid was on the bike with him

his three year old son was in a child seat!

just watched it on the local news.

[Enrique]

4. this is why it's a good idea to wear a helmet

Especially in Asheville NC.

Diez pulled a gun and opened fire, hitting the victim in his bicycle helmet, according to police.
They said the bullet penetrated the outer lining of the helmet but did not actually hit the victim's head.

[surrealAmerican]

88. I guess the helmet saved his life.

I hadn't suspected a bicycle helmet would be able to stop a bullet, but it looks like it can.

[Mythsaje]

5. One of the biggest racists I've ever had the misfortune of communicating with

was (allegedly) a NY city firefighter... Told me that if he had his way, he'd leave "welfare queens" and "hoodlums" to burn. Of course, I'd guess that the ration of nutcases to heroes would still be in direct opposition to law enforcement.

[followthemoney]

134. We had a fireman convicted of starting fires in my town.

He was finally caught by a surveillance camera. Bad guys dress up in good guy clothes when they don't want to be caught. Has anyone here ever noticed politicians and priests, etc., pull the same scam?

[Robb]

6. Yikes.

[angstlessk]

7. this guy thinks in order to protect the child he has to shoot their dad..what a putz!

[depakid]

8. CCW?

Bet on it.

[The Straight Story]

18. He worked for the government, some people only trust them with guns

Since he was one of the few we think should have guns then he should also have ccw.

Maybe guns and ccw are not the problem, mental health issues and people are.

[depakid]

43. He's a fireman, not a cop

and road rage strikes all sorts of people. Some who you'd never guess, unless you were in the car with them when they went off.

[City Lights]

9. WTF? nt

[onethatcares]

10. jeez, at least it didn't happen in

Floriduh.

[timtom]

76. Or Tex-ASS

or China
or Disney World

[Bigmack]

11. I ride armed....

much of the time. You aim a 2 ton weapon at me.... I aim a 2 pound weapon at you.

I figure if I can't be part of the solution, at least I can be part of the problem!!

[ret5hd]

16. well, you certainly impressed me!

what a tough guy you must be!








wait for it:
:sarcasm:

[Bigmack]

77. Actually, I'm mild as milk....

I've just been the subject of a lot of hostility from drivers.

I.. we, actually... ride very defensively. Everybody else has the right of way, we ride single file, stay over the right side of the shoulder... the whole bit.

We ride in an area that has a lot of long stretches with no houses, and people have swerved at us, thrown firecrackers at us, and shouted threats. I'm not comfortable without some protection.

Fuck you....

Well, that's what a tough guy would say, anyway.

[Ms. Toad]

96. Not a safe place to ride - but everything else looks good.

Riding on the right side of the shoulder doesn't leave you anyplace safe to ditch to where you can still control the bike if you get buzzed by an aggressive driver (like the people swerving at you that you mentioned). I always make sure I have at least 2 feet of solid rubble free pavement (if I'm riding on a paved road) to my right - generally that means I ride just to the left of the shoulder line.

[izzybeans]

21. A bicylce counts as a weapon in your mind?

[armyowalgreens]

60. I believe a two pound weapon would be a handgun, not a bicycle.

[izzybeans]

89. ummm read the op and then that post. It was deranged.

[Bigmack]

78. Jeezus... ride a bike, carry a gun, people threaten us with a car...

Try to catch up before you post, will ya.

[izzybeans]

90. The guy that got shot was on the bike. Read the OP will ya.

[cyndensco]

40. A two ton weapon?

[Bigmack]

81. Actually... if somebody aims a Ford F250 at me...

it's more than three tons.... 6500 lbs empty. Rather than two tons.

And, truth be told, my 9mm weighs a taste over two pounds.

[slutticus]

139. yeah right......

lol

[fujiyama]

15. There are a lot of people out there

that really hate pedestrians, bikers, and bicyclists. It seems like in most places, it's not accepted and the drivers are just jerks that won't share the road with anyone. Some cities are courteous (Portland OR comes to mind). Plus there they actually made an effort to have bike lanes, something completely missing in most parts of the US..

I had a coworker that biked to work a few times - and his home was a good distance from work (like twenty miles) - he mentioned all sorts of crazy ass holes that would harass him.

I remember there was also that story about a woman laughing about killing a guy on a bike. She was some sort of RW loony.

[bertman]

19. Diez sounds "unbalanced". He should get to spend several years contemplating his

stupidity in the comfort of a small cell.

That said, I'm a former bicyclist in a locale where there are thousands of bicyclists. Some of the folks on bikes are just plain idiots. And even a few of them with kids riding with them act like they are invincible. I'm not saying this to infer that the victim was doing anything stupid that deserved being shot for. Just an observation.

[Supply Side Jesus]

20. All Firemen can't be trusted!!!

:sarcasm:

[timeforpeace]

44. The logic works for all cops, why not firemen?

[redqueen]

46. Cause there's not so many outrageous examples of fireman brutality? (nt)

[Supply Side Jesus]

133. And Italians!!

and any category of people you can dream up of

[lumberjack_jeff]

22. Another sensless bicycle related head injury. n/t

:sarcasm:

[AndyA]

24. I'm so glad that firefighter had a gun.

He needed it for protection. That bike rider was threatening him. And I guess the bike rider could have protected himself if he'd had a gun as well, right? :eyes:

[PretzelWarrior]

27. lolol. exactly. the arguments people even on this site make about handguns are ludicrous

I think handguns should be TIGHTLY controlled even more than they are now. There are no legitimate reasons for a bunch of people to be running around urban areas packing.

[proteus_lives]

87. Why?

"There are no legitimate reasons for a bunch of people to be running around urban areas packing."


I'm a law-abiding CCW holder with no record who bought my firearm legally. Why shouldn't I be allowed to carry my firearm?

[greguganus]

31. At least it wasn't a cop!! We would have a 100 more cop bashing posts! n/t

[redqueen]

38. Nah... the one about the cop sodomizing a man with a taser didn't get even 25 responses. (nt)

[IDemo]

108. Didn't see that one, but my post about the same incident drew 6 replies

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6157691&mesg_id=6157691

I guess we're becoming immune here to shocking cop/Taser posts after so many of them. :shrug:

[dorkulon]

68. The real problem here is that the baby wasn't armed.

A real American baby would have taken that guy out!

[winyanstaz]

75. exactly,,,maybe there would be one more daddy alive and

one more psycho dead. That fireman knew he was shooting an unarmed person..bet he wouldnt do that in wyoming so easily..everyone there would shoot him right back for that shit.

[Raskolnik]

135. Are you just arguing with yourself, or has someone on DU said what you're rolling your eyes about?

[PretzelWarrior]

25. child safety, road rage, helmet safety, and public employee gone wild

all in one article. Wonder if this guy was a returning Iraq/Afghanistan war vet and if the guy he shot was also white.

[Jakes Progress]

28. Thank the NRA that he ad a gun in his car.

Without it, he might have had to, you know, stop and talk to the cyclist and tell him that he was upset. Having a gun at the ready, he could just avoid all that conversation and discussion.

[csziggy]

42. He did stop and talk to the bicyclist - before he shot the man in the head

"Investigators said that Simons was stopped by 42-year-old Charles Diez, of Swannanoa, who began arguing with Simons about the boy being on the bike in high-traffic area. They said Diez then pulled out a handgun and fired." http://www.foxcarolina.com/news/20193010/detail.html

Yeah, talking really helped.

[Jakes Progress]

92. Your point?

Are you saying that it was a good thing that Diez had the gun so that the discussion would end in shooting?

Had he no gun, the probable outcome would be a lot of harsh words. Maybe if he was stupid as well as crazed, someone could have been punched in the nose.

So I guess that in reply to my post, you believe that the gun was a good thing here. Otherwise, what was the purpose of your post?

[csziggy]

97. I was just replying to your comment since you seem to have missed a part of the interaction

"Without it, he might have had to, you know, stop and talk to the cyclist and tell him that he was upset." You apparently did not realize there was conversation prior to the shooting since that was not in the article linked to in the original post. I am not trying to disagree with you, just provide additional information.

Frankly, with or without a gun the firefighter may have still resorted to violence. The gun made it more likely to be deadly. He (the firefighter) is just lucky that the bicyclist was wearing a good helmet, otherwise he would not be charged with just attempted murder, but actual murder.

No the gun was not a good thing, especially since the gun owner was apparently someone who could not control his emotions.

[Jakes Progress]

112. So not adding anything.

I didn't miss anything. There was nothing in the OP or the link about a discussion.

[Demobrat]

32. Well what's the point of having a gun

if you're not going to use it? It's the cyclist's own fault. He didn't know who he was messing with.

[proteus_lives]

86. Typical post of an anti.

Ignorance and bias.

[Jakes Progress]

91. Typical post of a pro.

Missing the point deliberately.

[CakeGrrl]

33. So his solution to the outrage of a child on a bike on a busy road was to

endanger the child's life by shooting the person operating the bike on which the child was riding.

F'ing idiot. He needs to be in jail for a LONG time.

[mwooldri]

41. Why the heck does a firefighter have to have a gun????

My dad was a firefighter for many years. He never had a gun on duty, never required one. If he got mad I suppose he could have thrown a fireman's axe but that's never happened.

Then again the police officers back in the UK are usually unarmed. If they need armed backup, it can be there quite quickly and in force with fully trained officers who do nothing much but firearms.

Mark.

[lpbk2713]

45. It was a fireman who poisoned his dogs before he went on a cruise recently.

Is there a lot of on-the-job stress involved with being a firefighter that we need to know about? :shrug:

[Jennicut]

48. What firefighter carries a gun, and why are people increasingly letting their anger get the better

of them? I wish we had a way of putting each other on a 2 minute delay. The biker was putting his child in danger but that is no reason to shoot him...call the police or child services. Now the child is traumatized from all of this.

[taterguy]

49. I'm not defending the guy but those spandex wearing Lance-wannabes annoy me

Of course the article doesn't specify if the cyclist was wearing spandex.

I suspect he was, and therefore would make a tempting target.

[MajorChode]

52. Maybe it was red spandex

You should never wear red spandex while bike riding.

[taterguy]

57. I went to UNC, I don't own any red clothing

Fuck Norm Sloan

[prolesunited]

58. Yeah, we should all be able to shoot people who annoy us.

BANG! Gotcha!

[taterguy]

61. I didn't say we should be able to shoot annoying people

But I understand the desire

[Hansel]

70. Really.

A lot of people annoy me. The thought of shooting them or harming them in any way has never entered my mind. I don't understand the desire at all.

[armyowalgreens]

62. I wear spandex shorts when cycling. Do you want to go?

[taterguy]

63. Go where?

[armyowalgreens]

64. The Bahamas. I have an extra ticket.

[taterguy]

65. It's too long a drive to the Bahamas from where I live

[armyowalgreens]

67. Goddamnit. That means we have to fight...

Today you die.

[taterguy]

69. How convenient. I'm sitting here, waiting around to die

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MwR1n0p1V7U&feature=related

[smalll]

118. Of course you would, Mr. spandex-wearing cyclist, Bahamas-going member of the upper-latte classes.

(Word to the wise: the economy's not so hot right now.)

[armyowalgreens]

127. Man, I bought my cycle shorts on clearance for 25 bucks.

I'm poor.

[Fumesucker]

66. I had a Lycra guy stop when my granddaughter took a tumble on the bike trail

This Spring, she had a scraped knee and he stopped to help.. Rode back to his car and got his first aid kit, came back and put antiseptic and a band aid on it.

Just because you wear Lycra doesn't mean you're an asshole.

[prolesunited]

73. Actually, that's part of the bikers' code

You always stop to help others to build good karma so you will get the help when you need it.

And, yes, I wear spandex and I look hot in it!

[Fumesucker]

79. I look more like a plucked Big Bird than anything..

Not exactly hot..

But I hit a personal best of 14.6 mph for a half hour a few days ago, considering I started at 10.25 mph for the same period only about two and a half months ago I feel pretty good about it.

I used to be able to do a century fairly easily thirty plus years ago, I figure I'll be to that point in about another six months or so. Our trail is an old railroad track that goes from Atlanta to Birmingham AL and I'm going to try that in the late fall.

Maybe I'll even get some Lycra. :)

[prolesunited]

137. Keep up the good work

You'll only get better.

[Gwendolyn]

80. How do you feel about cyclists who shave their legs?

Or those awful tan lines they get, about mid-quad?

[MajorChode]

82. I don't mind it at all

[Gwendolyn]

84. ...

:) No need for drafting in THAT.

[taterguy]

83. Are we talking about male or female cyclists?

[Gwendolyn]

94. I was talking about male cyclists.

My ex was/is an avid cyclist, and I used to get a hoot out of the bizarre tan lines that left his entire torso lily white, and the rest... arms and lower legs... deep brown. :D Excellent calves though. He also shaved in the summer time, and being a man, he wasn't always fanatic about it, and it got very prickly once those chest and leg hairs started sprouting back. But the spandex was very okay looking, from my perspective. Beats the grossness of hockey equipment moldering in a closet, ANYTIME! :)

[smalll]

117. I'm a big-time cyclist, but I agree with you on that. That kind of get-up is the ne plus ultra...

of latte-arugula annoyingacioiusness. But it's also actually a nice pressure-reliever for us other bicyclists -- if one of those dudes pass us, we lose no face, but if we pass them in our everyday shorts and tshirts (and on our non-five-figure cycles, not made out of rare and expensive metals that end in -ium) it's a MAJOR burn for Messieurs Tour de France!

I'm just sayin'! :shrug:

[Tim01]

55. You think firemen should be banned from having guns? nt

[high density]

56. Bullet-proof bicycle helmet

Not bad.

[Faryn Balyncd]

59. damn those tree-hugging, bike-riding commies!!!!

:sarcasm:

[Thickasabrick]

71. I bet it was a pellet gun or something. Real gun would have put a hole

through that plastic foam helmet.

[PretzelWarrior]

74. could have been .22 caliber

[Iggo]

104. Well then, what's everyone getting all worked up over?

Fire away!!!!

;)

[mrbarber]

72. Holy crap. I live in Asheville and travel down tunnel road all the time.

There are always bicyclists here.

Throw this trigger happy maniac in prison and throw away the key.

[proteus_lives]

85. I hate it when bikers ride on roads with no bike lanes but...

The fireman has issues and off to jail he should go.

[taterguy]

95. How are people who use bikes for transportation supposed to get somewhere if there's no bike lane?

[Skittles]

98. yes

I don't get angry at bikers but I do get concerned for their safety

[proteus_lives]

106. That's always my second thought

I hate when they are kids because I got hit by car on my bike when I was but a lad.

[taterguy]

130. I got mono when I was a kid

That doesn't mean I think it's unsafe for people to kiss each other.

[proteus_lives]

105. Sidewalks.

It's too dangerous on the road.

[tblue37]

113. In our city it is against the law to ride a bike on the sidewalk. nt

[proteus_lives]

114. Do they have bike lanes?

I just think it's too dangerous in the main lanes with cars.

[tblue37]

115. A few, but we don't even have many sidewalks in Lawrence, Kansas. Often, we are forced to walk

in the street. I agree, though, bikes shouldn't be forced to compete with cars and trucks.

[proteus_lives]

116. We have these delivery bikers for a local restaurant around my home.

Always ducking in and out and whizzing around. They're in a hurry and they scare the hell out me when I'm driving.

[Luminous Animal]

123. Indeed. And how are people who use bikes for recreation...

supposed to get somewhere if there is no bike lane.

I live in Northern California, and there are bicyclists all over the back roads. It's no big deal to slow down to 2-5 miles per hour and waiting until it is safe to pass.

[Ms. Toad]

100. (In most states) bikers have the same rights (and responsibilities)

as any other vehicle on the road - so you need to get over it - or hop on a bike and join us. It's good exercise.

And, FWIW, a bike lane (and a Mack truck making a right turn through the bike lane) just killed a a friend I've known for more than 4 decades. Those things (bike lanes on the right) terrify me - give me a road without bike lanes any day.

[baldguy]

99. "he could actually have been defending himself"

No joke - that's and actual reply in this story in the gungeon.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=118x242544#242575

[Pavulon]

102. That guy is an anti gun poster, may want to pick another guy. (nt)

[proteus_lives]

107. You're using iverglas???

Wow epic fail. She's a another anti-gun loon. (You guys might hit it off.)

[redqueen]

132. lol

[depakid]

136. Actually, her arguments make sense- and she knows how to read research

Unlike most of the gun proliferaters.

And of course, she also knows how to use and recognize sarcasm.

[Naturyl]

103. Crazy sumbish.

Time to go bye-bye to prison.

[gleaner]

109. It is official....

I think I have just heard (read) everything.:crazy:

[create.peace]

111. well, my dh points out, who better to know how unsafe it is

than the shooter making it unsafe!

[proud2BlibKansan]

119. Why the hell didn't he just run him over?

Cars kill too.

But of course then he wouldn't have been able to exercise his second amendment rights. :sarcasm:

[Hannah Bell]

121. That'll show him to endanger his child so foolishly.

[Rex]

126. Stupid people do stupid things

all the time.

[ecstatic]

138. This story hurts my head

I can't even put any effort into trying to reason through this one.