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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:32 PM
Original message
Click here if you will burn your mandated private insuricare card
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 09:50 PM by Leopolds Ghost
Looking for support here. :hi:

Sorry for posting the entire article, but as you can see,
they buried the lede in a series of short paragraphs way, way down at the end.

Like Car Insurance, Health Coverage May Be Mandated

A Proposed Requirement That All Americans Have Policies Has Broad Support Among Reformers

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/21/AR2009072103410.html?sid=ST2009072103763

By Ceci Connolly
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, July 22, 2009

President Obama's dream of dramatically remaking the nation's health-care system is still a long way from reality. But if lawmakers can reach an accord, one thing is virtually certain:

For the first time ever, every American would be required to carry health insurance.

(DU note: the expression "carry" means "to buy an insurance policy from a provider, i.e. a private or public-private, usually for-profit entity". I.e. the opposite of universal health care. Once this bill is passed, not only will universal health care be permanently dead, but we will be fined $1,000 a year for not buying into it.)

The requirement, known as an individual mandate, is among the most far-reaching changes envisioned this year by those pushing for health-care reform. And it is one of the few common threads running through all three bills being considered in Congress, greatly increasing the likelihood it will survive the legislative process. Obama continued Tuesday to push lawmakers struggling with the large costs and scope of health legislation to move forward, pronouncing reform to be "closer than ever."

Just as drivers must purchase auto insurance, the medical system of the future would put responsibility for health coverage first and foremost on every adult.

For the vast majority of Americans who have health insurance, the change would mean little more than submitting a form with their tax returns proving that the plan they carry meets certain minimum standards. Many of the nation's 47 million uninsured people, however, would be required to purchase a health policy or face financial penalties, though waivers or discounts would be provided for lower-income Americans.

The concept is modeled after a requirement instituted in Massachusetts three years ago as part of that state's broad health-care overhaul. And like the Massachusetts law, the individual mandate proposed by congressional Democrats would be paired with a much more controversial new requirement that nearly every employer contribute to the total cost of care.

"Without an individual mandate, you're never going to get to universal coverage," said Bradley Herring, a health economist at Johns Hopkins University.

Bringing everyone into the insurance pool -- particularly young, healthy customers -- spreads the risk and lowers overall costs. "That will make it more affordable for everyone," Herring said.

Some proponents of a European-style, nationalized single-payer approach say an individual mandate places an unfair financial burden on lower-income consumers. Some conservative analysts argue that such a requirement forces individuals into an overpriced, underperforming health system.

Yet in a nation that prides itself on having freedom of choice,
it is striking that such a wide and diverse coalition has formed around the individual mandate. Labor unions, economists, the medical industry, big business, some prominent Republicans and Obama all support the requirement, which has its roots in the conservative philosophy of self-reliance.

In the debate over Massachusetts's measure, then-Gov. Mitt Romney, a Republican with presidential aspirations, touted the approach as a "personal responsibility system."

Hospitals, insurers and drug manufacturers -- salivating at the prospect of up to 50 million newly insured customers -- have lobbied ferociously for the federal provision.


Obama, after sparring last year with his Democratic presidential primary opponents over the concept, is a convert, as long as there are "hardship exemptions" for those least able to pay.

"I was opposed to this idea because my general attitude was, the reason people don't have health insurance is not because they don't want it, but because they can't afford it. And if you make it affordable, then they will come," he said in a recent interview with CBS. "I've been persuaded that there are enough young, uninsured people who are cheap to cover, but are opting out. To make sure that those folks are part of the overall pool is the best way to make sure that all of our premiums go down."

Nearly one-third of the uninsured in the United States in 2007 were between the ages of 19 and 29, and 42 percent were between 30 and 54, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. A fair number of young, healthy workers choose not to purchase insurance, believing they do not need it.

Advocates of universal coverage want to lure that group into the insurance pool because they tend to use fewer medical services and help keep premiums down. If only the sick buy coverage, premiums will be high. And visits to emergency rooms by uninsured patients increase premiums for the insured -- by $1,000 per person per year, according to some estimates.

The Massachusetts experience with an individual mandate has provided a model, as well as some unexpected results.

"Massachusetts changed everything in the policy community and the political arena," said Karen Ignagni, president of the industry group America's Health Insurance Plans.

The penalty for Massachusetts residents who do not carry health insurance was $220 in late 2007 and rose to about $1,020 this year. Still, relatively few residents have balked at the idea -- and an additional 432,000 people have signed up for health coverage.

(Still?!? false dichotomy there... of course fining people $1000 for jaywalking will end it overnight!)

A bill passed by the Senate Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee last week would set the penalty at $750 per person. Individuals earning less than 150 percent of the poverty level, or about $16,245, would be exempt.

Negotiations are continuing in the Senate Finance Committee, where Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) has argued for months that an individual mandate is central to achieving Obama's goal of near-universal coverage and cost controls.

Stuart Butler, a vice president at the conservative Heritage Foundation, agrees that bringing everyone -- especially young, healthy patients -- into the risk pool would be advantageous.

But he advocates beginning with a voluntary "opt out" approach similar to automatic enrollment programs for retirement accounts. If policies are reasonably priced, he expects that few will turn down the coverage.

The challenge, said Butler and experts in Massachusetts, is designing a basic benefits package that is affordable. Writing a law that requires individuals to purchase something they cannot afford is "inhumane," Herring said.

When Massachusetts approved its individual mandate, proponents of the new law braced for a modern-day Tea Party. It never materialized.

"I don't see people revolting over having to have a driver's license or insurance to drive a car," Gruber said. "And we haven't seen it with the mandate."
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Sebastian Doyle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
1. FUCK corporate mandates
If I wanted that shit I would have voted for Romney or Hillary. :grr:
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Telly Savalas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:35 PM
Response to Original message
2. How about we print a copy of DU's rules on copying and pasting entire articles
and burn that too.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Key passages of the article are in the Mitt Romney section. They buried the lede.
(As usual for the Washington Reagan National Post.)

I can't quote the paragraph about the creeping loss of freedoms ("people didn't complain when we asked them to forego their rights in order to drive a car, this is no different") or the fact that this policy is rooted in "the conservative think tanks" and "heavily lobbied for by the industry, who salivate at the prospect of 50 million new customers" out of context.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Let me introduce you to the concept of >SNIP
You can post the first paragraph, and then post the rest after an elision. With a link, people can go and read the whole thing themselves. Stop making silly excuses.

As for the insurance mandate, I'm not sure it will survive a constitutional challenge. You can require people to buy auto insurance, but I get by fine without any...because I choose not to own a vehicle or even drive, most of the time. Taxes I can deal with, since they're based on something like income or property ownership (although I am not a very big fan of property taxes qua taxes (versus bills for services).

Mandatory health insurance, on the other hand, means I'm forced to enter into a private contract by virtue of being alive and having anything above a subsistence income. I'm not sure this will stand up to a legal challenge, which is another reason I am not supportive of the public option insurance scheme vs just going straight to single payer.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #19
43. I tried to edit, but the editing period expired. I was able to highlight the important bits
But as you can see, they don't mean as much out of context because the goddamned Post buries the lede on every article they put out, probably editorial manipulation because I refuse to believe their journalists are such bad writers.

A newspaper article should put all the general background info in the first two paragraphs and the rest at the bottom. Increasingly I see newspaper articles that are all general background info for morons, with actual news buried at the bottom of the article.

By "morons" I mean stuff thrown in at the end like:

"Surprisingly, even though Massachusetts decided to fine people $1,000 for not having health insurance, relatively few people -- only 3% of the public -- have balked at doing so."
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #43
48. You know, your opinions about what is significant are not the only ones
Personally, I don't find the Post as guilty of burying the lede as you suggest, but even though I agree with you about some issues, including health care policy, I don't subscribe to your conspiracist view of things.
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csziggy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Without even a link to the original, either n/t
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cdsilv Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. The coming retirement of the boomers has the health ins. cos. freaking out.....
....that they will lose all the gainfully employed insured boomers to medicare. Hence their going along
with 'healthcare reform' - which is really healthcare finance reform so that they can get a mandate that 'everyone' have insurance! NOT HEALTHCARE!
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #3
9.  insurance companies are getting their medicare payments "adjusted"
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Ewellian Donating Member (302 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
22. Boomers moving to Medicare
just shifts the type of business for health insurance companies. Part of their business is claims administration for Medicare. They also sell Medicare supplemental plans to cover Medicare deductibles and coinsurance.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. CongressCritters FIRST!
Damned their corporate hides!
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. So long as there is a strong public option, I support mandated coverage. n/t
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Do you support fining me or violating my constitutional rights to privacy and freedom of contract?
If the public option is not automatic for anyone who does not have a private policy -- and the fact that you wish to fine me says it is not -- then it is a vilation of the 9th Amendment to freedom of contract.

Car insurance mandates are arguably a serious 9th Amendment violation as well, but the argument there is that people are not required to buy a car and that the insurance comes with the car. Of course this did not stop car owners (many of them "liberal") from violating non-car owners constitutional rights, for instance during Katrina when persons attempting to evacuate on foot were shot at while those in vehicles were allowed to pass.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. I support fining those who refuse mandated coverage, yes.
It's more of a tax because you'll be covered under the public option any way.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. No you won't. The WHOLE POINT of the fine is the public option is not automatically available.
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:32 PM by Leopolds Ghost
It's not available to people who unless they are "needs based".

Did you read this or the other articles in the past two years?

The adocates of this system including Clinton and Mitt Romney
(who both called opt-outs "freeloaders on society" and who both
opposed public housing and privatizing all sorts of other stuff, BTW)
say that the MORAL and LEGAL BURDEN IS ON THE CITIZEN TO PROVE
HE HAS PURCHASED INSURANCE FROM A PRIVATE COMPANY, if he is not
eligible for a public plan, and the BURDEN IS ON THE CITIZEN to
apply for the public plan and ask to be approved and get a
private plan in the meantime or risk being fined.

That is called MERCANTILISM. MERCANTILE STATE. Like the British East Indies.

This is actually to the LEFT of Clinton's plan in 1993 which would
have mandated not just any health coverage, but mandated everyone use HMOs,
a Frankenstein's monster disaster of a conservative concept for making
the whole health care system work as a for-profit system. NO ONE supports
HMOs anymore.

Do you support mandated coverage in opposition to single payer?

Because it's very much in opposition. I mean, I could advocate
for building a trolley in New York, and tell the proponents of
the 2nd Avenue Subway that I support it as a "stepping stone" to the
ultimate goal of a subway.

I could advocate for condo development in downtown LA as a
"stop-gap measure" with the long term goal being to build
affordable housing elsewhere for displaced public housing tenants.

What do you think their response would be?

(All of this is logic that Clinton appointees used on issues
of public investment, and a lot of right wing Blue Dogs, too.)

Do you support the 9th Amendment (freedom of contract, i.e.
every economic system of the past 200 years that is opposed
to mercantilism)?

The US fought a war of independence against the mercantilists.
Socialism is also opposed to mercantilism, but if you are a
capitalist, well, capitalism and liberal democracy are doubly
opposed to the concept. I know, "principles are made to be
modified over time, Adam Smith and Karl Marx and John Hume
are not God." Well, not according to modernists. If we are
still in the modern era, then principles are very much fundamental.
Either you support the principle or you oppose both capitalism
and socialism and want to go back to a mercantile state.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. But you would still be covered under the public option
You get sick or injured, and the hjospital will take you and the government will pay for it.

So yeah, if you don't buy insurance, fine your ass.
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galileoreloaded Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. People won't do what they don't want to......
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 11:24 PM by galileoreloaded
you can tax someone 90%, but you will only collect 40-50%. Numerous studies about this. Taxing ain't collecting.

I wouldn't worry to much, as there are always loopholes if you are so inclined. I do wonder though, who will be turning you in, your rightwing nut neighbor, or your Democratic brother, for not "paying your fair share". I can see it now, billboards like the Border Patrol has with huge 1-800 numbers for reporting "mandated health insurance fraud". The only good news as history shows is that black and gray markets almost always spring up to meet demand.

When a doc or two drop out, and start seeing patients in their home, for $40 cash, and dispense to you perfectly good antibiotics from, oh, Mexico, @ $.02 per pill vs. $.20, we will all know things will have come full circle. Crazy you say??? This model is taken advantage of EVERY DAY by your fellow Americans walking across the frontier in border towns everywhere.

My doc graduated Cum Laude from Texas A&M and Princeton. Dudes as American as I am (if you care about these things) and has an MRI in his OFFICE. $25 bucks, half hour of his time. Amazing care.

Equilibrium will be found folks, don't worry. It's just slow sometimes.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:41 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. and I support people that want to cause more problems for the poor going straight to hell
Poor people can't afford any more taxes,,any more mandated coverages..they can't even afford their homes or their food! You assholes have robbed America to death! NO MORE!!!
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 06:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
34. Dude, that's the point of healthcare reform. The poor get covered
And those who can afford it must get coverage to help bring down costs so that we all can cover the poor.

Sheesh!

:eyes:
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. Yes to the former.
The uninsured are a systemic problem. This bill enables people to afford it, and you don't have to buy it from a private insurer.
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. Obama lied himself ragged about mandates on the trail
and he painted Hillary as a monster for supporting them. He got votes because he opposed them,bait and switch liar.
Mandated purchase of for profit health insurance is an absolutely vicious idea born from the minds of evil people. I do not and will not support it. I will vote for no one who votes for such a thing. It is anti-human.
In addition, this batch of bigoted, homophobic religious nutters in control of much of this administration will insist on all sorts of right wing discrimination and sexism in the 'reform' and the wimp in the Oval will not contest their putrid agenda. It will be unjust and unfair, and the people in charge are too prejudiced to be trusted.
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bobbolink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Wanna guess what this bunch will do to the election results of next year?
Are we allowed to even talk about this?

:shrug:
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. And get this, who POPULARIZED for-profit health insurance -- NIXON!!
IIRC, that's when for-profit health insurance was allowed to compete with not-for-profit health insurance.

Nixon also eliminated anti-usury laws, I don't see any public fixture proposing to reinstate usury laws (against ballooning >15% interest rates on loans) that pre-dated the American Revolution.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #10
40. why are you a democrat? or, are you?
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Does anyone doubt this is what many people, even many Dems, want?
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:22 PM by Leopolds Ghost
You get what you want, and this is what many supposed "liberals" (who don't support public anything, except public intrusion of their lives in the name of public safety and protection from undesirables) want. What should we expect? The majority of Americans, even Dems, grew up in the cocoon of Reaganism. They are used to giving up their rights in the name of regulating undesirable elements. They don't give a JACK SHIT about principles, they care about economics and what they're told will improve their own existing premiums. If that means taking away other people's rights, there are too few to complain and the $1000 fine will silence them. To use an analogy they're using, "everyone who drives has to carry ID anyway" so the "few who don't have no right to complain" if they're forced to carry papers for this and that (insurance papers, "non-driver" ID to distinguish you from other citizens as a non-driver, I suppose) in order to avoid fines or arrest. At least the proposed "National ID" does not require you to show proof that you purchased goods from an approved mercantile monopoly, like in Colonial Britain and France! Once the problem is mandated out of existence there is no one left to complain. See what they did (what DEMS did!) to public housing. If anything, Medicaid will become the new welfare under this system.

The issue is, as always, stuff like the 9th Amendment implied freedom of contract and right to privacy was instituted explicitly against the tyranny of the majority.
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cabluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
31. Nope. Big Med has building new hospitals all over CA & they need the money to pay for it. nt
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
15. Finally someone is picking up on what this health care thing is all about.
No wonder the insurance companies aren't fighting it.
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Leopolds Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The Washington "Reagan National" Post loves to air this stuff out in public after decision is made
Edited on Sat Jul-25-09 10:16 PM by Leopolds Ghost
As you can see in the article, they are very up-front about who supports this and why. Oh sure, the reporter might have some educated issues with what the people are saying. The reporter probably had to read the Constitution in journalism school, unlike his sources.

The article was approved for publication now, because the board of the major papers feel the "closed doors decision time" (which started in a series of tryout sessions of major candidates with the health care lobbies during the campaign) is over, and the "educating the public" period has now begun.

The Post and Newsweek PRIDES itself on being honest and upfront with its readers after the decision has been made because it wants to attract opinion leaders as readers. People "in the know" who like to be the first to know what our rulers have in store for the rest of us.

Hell, Fareed Zakaria even wrote a book condemning liberty as a virtue and saying that liberal democracy had proven the need for economic liberty, and disproven the need for personal liberty or privacy. We are all millenial babies now.

Ironically, the right to freedom of contract between private parties is an economic liberty, but then, only corporations have rights now.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:23 PM
Response to Original message
18. Right here
k plus r
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
21. Giving you a Rec...
...because I'm just as disgusted with this concept as you are.

Being forced to buy into a system that I don't trust anyway, is very much worthy of revolt.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
24. That reminds me of when Americans would stand up for themselves.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-25-09 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. How the hell can the poor do that?
So now they will go to jail for being too poor to have health insurance?
When they can't hardly buy food or afford their homes..now they have to have mandatory health insurance? Who the hell thought of this?
What now? Will we have to put sick poor people in prison because they got sick without a health card?
This is just utter bullshit! I am so sick to death of this stabbing in the back of the people! Oh no! I don't have a health card so I can't even afford to be sick to death!
People are not revolting because we just now heard about this mandatory crap.
If people could afford the damned health insurance..we wouldn't be having this trouble in the first place.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
47. This plan also expands current Medicaid UPWARD so more people will get subsidies
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 04:25 PM by CTyankee
to help them pay for it. If you are still too poor to pay then you go on Medicaid. I'm sure you will have to have qualifying documentation as to your income/asset status, but that's fair isn't it?

The point is to COVER everyone so people who are too poor for health care insurance don't end up in the ER where they go after their health is so bad it costs MORE to take care of you. It still costs money...it just gets passed on to the people who already pay for health insurance. And it's a mighty inefficient way of securing health care for people.
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
27. Manadatory insurance
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 12:23 AM by jeanpalmer
LOL. This baby boom generation will never quit devising ways to screw the younger generation. Ship their jobs overseas, run up huge debts, spend SS money on wars and other bullshit, and now tax them to pay for baby boom healthcare.

This is not insurance. Insurance is priced according to risk. This is a subsidy, from the young to the old, disguised as insurance. If this were real insurance, the young would be paying much less than the old.

Auto insurance is not a proper comparison. You can get auto insurance for less than $1000 a year, if you have a good driving record. This boondoggle will cost much more.

Obama lied to us. It was just empty words. He said anything to get elected.

If these traitors would quit pissing away money on wars, we'd have money for healthcare.
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
28. K&R
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cabluedem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
29. People will be sent to prison where they will work for peanuts. Bad idea. nt
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:58 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. But, there is no debtors prison.
So, I seriously doubt that would happen.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #30
38. Debtor's prison is regular prison. NO MORE SPECIAL RIGHTS FOR DEBTORS!
Sink or swim with the sharks.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
32. Depends on whats out there
If there is a true public option, I would be interested.

If the alternative is paying out the ass for the same noncoverage we have now, fuck it and I will take the fine. I'd rather pay the Govt a fine than line corporate pockets.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:30 AM
Response to Original message
33. Depends on whats out there
If there is a true public option, I would be interested.

If the alternative is paying out the ass for the same noncoverage we have now, fuck it and I will take the fine. I'd rather pay the Govt a fine than line corporate pockets.
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
35. I will require them to ram it,cram it and jam it.
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 09:15 AM by Algorem
then they will be required to visit a plutocratic proctologist.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 09:41 AM
Response to Original message
36. As we all know, forcing people to buy auto insurance led to it becoming SINGLE PAYER
Edited on Sun Jul-26-09 09:44 AM by kenny blankenship
With low rates and universal coverage for collision liability, since the govt. took over the role of private insurers and eliminated the profit motive from the equation along with the middleman. Mandatory for-profit auto insurance withered away through the historical dialectic, leaving govt. Single Payer as the last man standing. Yup.

Biggest. Screwjob. Ever.
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shadowknows69 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
37. I might as well because it's doubtful I'll be able to afford it anyway.
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nightrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
41. Kick. no way I will support the private insurance thieves.
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 02:51 PM
Response to Original message
42. I just hope that the price will be tied to my credit rating like my car insurance
:sarcasm:
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Raschel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. What a crock that is! That should be illegal.
:hi:
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Minnesota allows it - it's so wrong.
My credit rating isn't great but the only auto insurance claim I've had was a fender bender more than 35 years ago.


It's actually a scam for the insurance companies - if you're wealthy enough, you'll pay off any minor damage yourself and not risk raising your rates. If you're not wealthy, you'll make the claim and suffer the increased premiums. They got you coming and going.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
44. What does the public option cost?
If it's $100 a month, I'm in.
If it's $400 a month, I can't afford it.

If it's $400 a month, fine me.
Then try to draw blood from a stone.
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