A woman who has always been friendly astonished me at the Y yesterday.

[mahina]

In five minutes this woman who I've always had a pleasant relationship with explained to me that:
1. Obama hates the Constitution and America
2. She is AFRAID. Seriously afraid.
3. She's glad the health care bill is in trouble
4. she understands why people would want to shoot him
5. he is a socialist.

For the next hour we discussed politics while the rest of the class went on with their excercise. (H2O Aerobics- we stayed at the other end of the pool.)

I made every point that you all know already. Constitutional scholar, LOVES America, health care needs reform, ?socialist?, how can anyone talk about assasinating our President because they are patriotic? etc.

This conversation changed the way I feel about that person completely. I now consider her a nut and a threat. This woman is a nurse, basically a good person, whose mind has been so corrupted by the poison that Fox 'news' spews.

I already lost an uncle to this hate- a liflong relationship that I would never in a million years have thought he would sacrifice for political disagreement. When the rank and file consumers of their hate start talking about killing, we have a big, big problem. She is no risk to our President, but the thinking that she's bought into is a huge risk to all of us.

I've always thought that it's our job to bring people together and talk to others who disagree, so I told her I'll make her a cd of some of his speeches, and if she'll listen to them, we can talk again. I don't expect she will though.

We underestimate the power of this fear and hatred at our country's peril.

[ejpoeta]

1. the worst thing is.... the folks scaring these people know what they are doing.

they seem to know which phrases to say that will override any logical thinking and make these folks just not hear anything else. it's frightening.. because people you would think are reasonable people and intelligent turn into robots or something. they refuse to hear anything else.

[Stardust]

8. And we wonder how the Germans could've let the Nazis take over.

They are masters at this propaganda game. I'd bet anything that Karl Rove has studied Goebbels extensively.

I, too, am very afraid for our country. I look around at the youth and they seem to be oblivious to what's happening. (Not all, of course, but a frightening majority.) And when you try to warn people, they get tired of it really fast. Avoiding the subject has become a family pasttime. I've long since given up on my generation (fucking boomers). The RWers have always been there, very vocal, very rigid, and very angry. Personally, I'm glad I won't be around to see what this country is bound to turn into. The Grand Experiment: FAIL

[mahina]

16. I have "why Americans Hate Politics" by E J Dionne and will review this week.

Usually we don't talk about politics at the gym. Wonder why that is, that sometimes its ok and other times in our community life we know it's not ok. Maybe as at the dinner table, the fear is that people are going to get overexcited and hate each other or hurt each other.

We need to grow a set and not be afraid to make ass, as we say here.

[Stardust]

33. LOL. "Make ass!" Do I ever resemble that expression!!! nt

[DebbieCDC]

19. Stardust, I agree with you

I'm of the boomer generation too and am sick to death of what I see in people my own age.

The ones I feel sorry for are my nieces and nephews -- in their late teens and early 20's now -- who will have to live 50 or 60 years with all this SHIT in this country.

[mahina]

13. There has to be a way...I loved what Chris Matthews did to Liddy the other day.

Seek first to understand, and let them fail. But we so seldom have their agreement to keep on a topic as they go down in flames. I agree completely, the folks scaring them know full well that they are lying.

[Shallah Kali]

57. The rw know how to push the fear buttons in the brain so critical thinking goes out the window

it is like a phobia but with certain others telling you that yes this really is something to live in terror.

It is like what happened on 9/11. Trauma - even vicarious tv news fear mongering - changes the way the brain operates. Critical thinking stops when the fear reaction hits. I currently have phobias as well as anxiety disorder so I know what this feels like. I could feel my brain and body starting to reaction the way to one of the regular phobias watching the news the day after so I stopped watching. I only read articles about it for months and stopped reading if anxiety got too high. Others I know did not and I wouldn't be surpised if many americans didn't end up with an anxiety disorder from the news coverage - an anxiety disroder that made it easier for the bush admin. to drive America into multiple wars because when people are afraid they will do just about anything to get it to stop no matter how irrational and maladaptive.

So now we have the rw pushing the birther crap which leads to the he's a secret muslim lie which equals might be like bin laden to the fearful. They are also pushing the decades old fear of socalism and communism buttons along with fear of non-white people wanting to do to us what white people did to them buttons. Hopefully these people will just exahust their adrenals fretting amongst themselves but I worry that at some point one of them will act violently on their paranoia.

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. They have Freepers like that in Hawaii now?

Well, actually maybe that's a good thing. She can go to the Department of Health, request to see the hard copy of Obama's birth certificate, and then tell all the other Freepers to shut the fuck up about it.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

48. She can't. Gov Lingle(R) sealed the record

[kestrel91316]

53. I doubt that Lingle did any such thing. IIRC I read on the HI Vital Records

website that copies of birth records are available only to those with a legitimate legal interest in them. John Doe or Jane Doe simply don't qualify.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

55. You are right. I went back to neutral source I had gotten that from and they had retracted it

However, I know from personal experience that the Hawaii law being referenced has not been enforced in the past.

[MADem]

3. Is this woman white, perchance? nt

[mahina]

20. She sure is.

I went into the locker room after her and a friend told me that she'd asked her what we were arguing about. She said that one of us was a Democrat and one was a Republican.

She guessed wrong about me! I guess you'd have to see my bumper to understand how baffling that is...we are all parking at the same time more or less. My bumper has two Obama stickers, an Abercrombie for gov and Hooser for Lt Gov stickers, and a Peace sticker. I thought everybody could see my solid blue self coming, thought they all knew where I stood since I have volunteered for so long for campaigns here.

Anyway, yes, she's a haole. But so am I. :)

[MADem]

27. She must have just awakened from a long nap, and had a look at the demographic tables.

We're a diverse nation now, and becoming more diverse by the day! Perhaps this is worrisome to her...she's running on fear and loathing.

She needs to embrace the change. It's going to happen regardless of her attitudes!

[Cha]

39. You're a haole, mahina?!

I thought sure you were a local.:)

[mahina]

70. Hey Zidzi!

I am that rare animal, the real live local haole. My Dad grew up here, all grandparents lived and died here, but I am a haole girl.

But I'll never be a f****** haole :)

[Cha]

78. Cool! I'm retiring on Kaua'i

next year if all goes well and I'd love to visit your IslandB-)

[virgogal]

62. Why was race even brought into this discussion? I have a couple of hapa

grandkids and I hope race is never an issue with them and it shouldn't be part of this discussion.

A crazed Repuke is a crazed Repuke no matter what the color

[Juche]

66. Most wingnuts are white in my experience

The majority that I have seen and know are white and over 50 years old.

I'm sure there are black and latinos in their 20s who are wingnuts, but I haven't met any yet. Most always fall into the demographic of older white people. Not only that, but the wingnuts pundits (fox news and talk radio) and wingnut politicians also fall into that demographic.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

83. I met my first AA wing nut last summer

He's about 30 or so, and told me an Obama win would be the darkest day in black America's history, because "his incompetence will prove what people have long believed, that a black man is not capable of the office."

[mahina]

71. Read you...

ps, go Sox!

[Cleita]

4. Fox News watcher and Rush Limbaugh listener quite simply.

Time to argue back now that she has admitted that this is where she gets her information. Then tell her that she is being lied to by a drug addict and an Australian tabloid corporate news owner, who makes money on propaganda, spin and sensationalism. Most people who shout socialism don't even know what it is. Make them define it for you. You will usually get something back about communism, Cuba or both. After that, if they haven't run away from you, you can point out all the countries mainly the Scandinavian ones that practice a mix of socialism and capitalism very successfully. You can also point out that the very successful capitalistic Chinese are also communists in name. By that time their eyes are rolling in their heads. Knowing the facts and the truth will make you invincible. The fact that she spent an hour with you means she does want to discuss this. Make your argument forceful and well sourced the next time you encounter her if she doesn't avoid you.

[dmr]

22. That's an "Australian tabloid corporate news owner" AND a Saudi Prince

Interesting, and disturbing who is feeding the so-called news to the non-thinking masses in this country.

[Stardust]

24. I'm still astonished when I hear people bash socialism. Haven't they even heard of

Sweden or Denmark? I've been to all the Scandinavian countries and lived in both communist and socialist countries, and had several good friends from there. And let me tell you...unless economics plays a part, most of them don't want what we have (or don't have.)

[troubledamerican]

64. Haven't they ever heard of the Interstate Freeway System?

Or their clean public water? Or their fire department? Or DARPA's marvel of tubes, the Internet? Or their military? Or their Congresswoman's luxurious health care plan for themselves? Or...

[hootinholler]

74. This one may be harless, but there are others

Who are listening to the shrill dog whistle call to action aimed at the wild lone wolf.

-Hoot

Edit: complete the sentence, lol

[mnhtnbb]

5. This has happened, I believe, to a woman I worked with many years ago.

She seemed quite open-minded at the time (but I was her boss, so maybe she didn't express herself).
Recently I joined Facebook and I've been posting stuff about health care costs, public option, etc.
This woman is against everything Obama; she believes in capitalism like it's a religion; she offers
all the Repub talking points about costs--that are easily disputed with facts--and so on.

It's very sad. I'm sure she listens to Faux news religiously and doesn't have a personal relationship
with anyone she sees regularly who can offer another point of view.

It's very scary. The overwhelming presence of media designed to brainwash rather than offer information
is going to lead to the destruction of community fabric in this country. All these people want or care about is getting and protecting theirs--money, property,place in society.

[Patiod]

49. It happened to my college roommate

I almost felt like she had become a zombie.

This is the girl who had been our sorority's only virgin (by graduation). Now on her fourth marriage, we roomed together at a reunion. On the last morning, she put Faux "News" on the tv, and I asked if we could watch something else.

She started screaming at me that she KNEW what kind of person I was, she had seen all my Facebook posts about Obama, said "Tell me one thing that Fox has ever lied about"

Unfortunately, my wits left me, and all I could do was stammer "absolutely every word they say" and then I came up with a lame minor lie, which she countered that "all those Republican Senators say it's true and they aren't allowed to lie on television" at which point I said "I'm going to breakfast" and left, knowing she had to leave shortly. I was shaking. And mad at myself for not saying "uh...how's WMDs, for a start" or one of the hundreds of other blatent, now-proven falsehoods.

Typical "family values" self-righteous Christian (hey, I know a LOT of really good observant Christians and Jews - this just isn't one of them). Wish I'd had the guts to say "so tell me again about how your second marriage broke up because you were sleeping with your contractor, you hypocritcal 'family values' bitch". But I didnt. I just was relieved when she was gone. Shortly after, we all got an email inviting us into some pyramid multi-level-marketing scheme. Ugh.

[mnhtnbb]

81. Ugh. What a bummer way to end a reunion. It still takes me by surprise

to see someone I once respected be so totally enthralled with the Faux BS and so unable to listen
to another point of view.

Intolerance is a specialty of Faux.

[Mojorabbit]

6. I have family

that have bought into it also as well as a dear dear friend of thirty years. I do not understand it at all.

[undeterred]

7. Sometimes its not even that the person listens to Limbaugh

or one of the other wingnuts. Its just that someone who they trust does. I met a woman the other day who told me that Obama was a socialist could not be trusted and was going to ruin health care by making everyone wait two months to see a doctor. I tried explaining to her that she was already part of a socialist health care system as a recipient of medicaid.

Geez, I'd be thrilled if Obama was a socialist. He's a socialist compared to Dick Cheney, maybe.

[dflprincess]

67. Maybe when compared to Cheney

but in Norway, while they like Obama, they still think he's conservative.

While I'd be happy with a socialist president, I'd be thrilled if Obama would just lean to left.

[madaboutharry]

9. I don't know if this is a fair conclusion that I have come to, but

I just think that there are many people who simply lack critical thinking skills. They are unable to evaluate and process what they hear.

I also think that racism has a lot to do with the hatred towards President Obama. It disillusions me to the point that when I read stories like yours that, it actually makes me depressed.

[magellan]

30. I think that's fair

All the people I've talked to who hold staunch RW views do nothing but repeat talking points. They don't do research. I'd say they're completely UNWILLING to evaluate and process any information that contradicts their beliefs.

When you correct them with facts, they move on to the next talking point. So you're always playing defense. And at any time you can have the exact same dialogue with them again, as if the first conversation never happened.

If God Himself appeared and told these idiots they were wrong, they wouldn't experience a revelation; they'd scrutinize and question His credentials until He fried their asses with a lightning bolt.

[Lorax]

69. Agreed.

I was going to post the same exact thing you just said.

[timeforpeace]

10. You are right to turn your back on her and your uncle over political differences.

[mahina]

72. I don't know, I would never have turned my back on him.

He closed that door, not me. I'm a more long term thinker than that, or I like to think so.

[Lorien]

11. Watch and you'll see how truly dangerous they are:

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07242009/watch2.html

[omega minimo]

18. Thanks for that Lorien.

:thumbsup:

[izquierdista]

60. Nice piece, wrong conclusion

Bill doesn't get it about the Fairness doctrine. It's not about a different world with multiple sources of information. It's about not turning information and opinion into propaganda. And while speech may be "free", inciting to riot and treason will get you locked up.

[Lorien]

65. I thought the same thing. I was surprised that he didn't grasp this

when we had the Fairness Doctrine "Opinion" or "Editorial" was placed in the corner of the screen to remind the viewer that this wasn't NEWS, it was just someone's opinion about the news. A good 30% of adults in this country have IQs well under 100 and they need this reminder-otherwise they figure if they see it on TV, it must be true. That's the RW target audience, and they CAN and ARE dangerous. I believe that if left unchecked there will be more cowardly murders like the ones in that report. That Glen Beck hasn't been arrested for threatening Michael Moore's life makes no sense at all.

[Naturyl]

58. That's a good piece.

We need to remain aware of the vitriol the right is peddling in the media every day. If it wasn't for this hate speech on the airwaves daily, we'd have made much more progress by now.

[cosmicone]

12. Ok ok ... I initially thought

that "A woman who has always been friendly astonished me at the Y" was some hot lesbian story but ... aside from that,

such stupid people abound. trying to convince them or convert them is a waste of time.

[jimshoes]

14. I have (had) a very good friend with whom I

hadn't talked to in a few years. He left a message as I was out so I called him back and within 5 minutes had covered every faux talking point from the "birth certificate" to "he's a socialist" and all the rest. The rest of the conversation was quite short and eminently pointless. He'd been washed, rinsed, soaked and blow dried on faux nooz. Too bad, we had a lot of laughs back in the day.

[mahina]

23. Exactly my experience!

They state as fact things that are proven false and aren't interested in why they 'know' this stuff.

I like the way you express yourself Jimshoes, thanks!

[jimshoes]

31. Hi and thanks, mahina, I suppose this is what

chimpy meant when he said he was a uniter. He's united half the country against the other half of the country.

[CrispyQ]

38. "He'd been washed, rinsed, soaked and blow dried on faux nooz."

Well said.

My mother was a right winger. It caused tension between us many times. My jaw damned near hit the floor the day she said, "The facts won't change how I feel." :wow: How do you connect with that kind of mindset?

[Naturyl]

59. You don't. There's just no way to do it.

At some point, you have to let it go. Some people are simply not interested in things like facts. They believe what they want to believe and there's no argument against that mentality. You can't reason someone out of ideas they didn't reason themselves into.

The only hope for such people is that they have a personal experience which changes their minds. Arguments will never cut it when someone is that far gone.

[Island Blue]

15. I would have told her that in regards to #4,

you felt obligated to report her to the Secret Service and would have then gone and "made a phone call". People who watch FOX are idiots. Period.

[omega minimo]

17. Rec+6 - I haven't underestimated it since Reaganism's Big Lies started producing this insanity

Don't know if they are possible to educate, once the crazymaking takes over.

[stray cat]

21. And the people with these fears have a vote equal to your own and elect their own representatives

they have equal rights and political clout as each of us. Is it any wonder we have conservative dems, moderate repubs and conservative radical repubs. Given the array of people in the US conservative dems beat radical repubs.

[glitch]

25. You nailed it in #2. She is fear-based.

The intentional seeding of fear is a tried and true method of control by authoritarians.

I think the best way to deal with it is gently inform and not let them freak you out. If you get afraid of them (not that there isn't reason to be, but still try not to if you can) I think the overall fear atmosphere amplifies and feeds on itself.

It sounds like you did good and with any luck she'll want to talk again.

[Ilsa]

26. You may have to ostracize her. Let her know that she is so far off

the mark that you don't want to be seen with her since she is an embarrassment.

[hfojvt]

28. I had an elderly woman tell me that before the election

She said that to me in the Democratic headquarters too. I assured her that Obama was a moderate, barely to the left of former President Clinton and that the country had survived Democratic Presidents for.

The ironic thing is kinda that you could hear many of the same things about President Bush on DU these last 8 years.

1. Bush hates the Constitution and America
2. I am afraid. Seriesly afraid.
3. I am glad Bush initiative X is in trouble
4. not sure about the shooting part. Most were more prudent, but given the level of hatred and fear it would not surprise me in a private conversation
5. he is a fascist

Ergo, this woman is a concerned citizen of another party and viewpoint. Not necessarily more of a threat than the average DUer. I would simply try to find common ground on issues, rather than trying to defend Obama.

I think it is wrong to overestimate the power of that fear and hatred too. As long as she can realize that you are an Obama supporter and can stay friends with you, that should keep her from too much extremism.

[Merlot]

35. I agree that you can hear similar things re bushco and Obama

but there are differences. One is that dems usually have facts to back up their points, repubs have anger.

Counterpoints:

1. Notice how the repubs will say "bush hates the Constitution and America" where as dems were concerned that bushco was destroying the constitution. There were facts, not emotional accusations.

2. As for being afraid, well, 8 years of ignoring the climate crisis and we all need to be very concerned. We can't see what those 8 lost years have done, now we're scrambling and it's probably to little to late.

3. What bushco initiative was ever in trouble? He got the wars, the spying on Americans, the "patriot" act, tax cuts for the rich. The only thing he didn't get to do was destroy social security, although the destruction of the economy is probably just as good.

4.The level of violence and hatred that was evident at the pallen rallies was NEVER equaled among anti-bushco demonstrators.

5. Well, look up the definition of fascist.

Therefore, I don't find her to be simply someone with an opposite viewpoint. I find her and those that think along those lines to be motivated by fear and anti-intellectual. They don't question. It's evident that dems will criticize their elected officials, will ask questions, will pursue the facts.

[nini]

43. I for one never condone violence against ANY president

As much as I despised Reagan I was upset when he was shot - our presidents are our presidents and regardless of what side of the fence I want them protected.

That does not mean I don't want to see W die a painful death and burn in hell for eternity. Just not at another's hand. :evilgrin:

I will say Bush did shit on the constitution, he did govern on fear and he did border on fascism. Reality is on our side of these arguments.

[WeDidIt]

29. She should be reported to the Secret Service

She has made comments related to assasination of the president. That makes her a threat and the Secret Service needs to know if only to insure she never gets closer than a few miles to Obama.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

50. I don't see an active threat in the words reported

And there can be consequences if someone if falsely reported for making threats...

[HughMoran]

32. Oh, teh stupid - it burns

I had a reunion with an old friend recently and at one point she stated that she went to a Bush fundraiser. Uggh, that ruined everything - I just can't respect someone who's all about money and fame and doesn't care how unethical and bigoted Republicans are.

[Cha]

47. Not to mention

hypocricy and lies..they think the end justifies the means..but, to what end? They had 8 years and They Fucked It Up. Idiots.

[Posteritatis]

34. How did she respond to your counterarguments? (nt)

[mahina]

73. "That's just the way I feel"..."I sure hope you're right"...

"I'm just afraid..." etc.

One point after the other. Poor thing.

[Cha]

36. And, you're in Hawai'i aka Obama Country!

Where I'm going back to next year to retire(Kaua'i)..and can't wait because even though there's brainwashed people everywhere, I think there will be less on Kaua'i. And, my son is there with his wife who both love Obama..I'll be retired too so I can speak my mind and not worry about offending any customers at my job here in New York(it's Mid New York and there's a bunch of limpbaugh dittoheads around here).

Hi mahina~ It's me, zidzi aka ChaB-)

PS..you showed amazing patience with the hater.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

51. Hawaii is Obama country, but its a pretty conservative shade of blue

[Cha]

54. Yeah, bush had them almost suckered in 2004..

and then the country had to live four more years under the Orwelliancheneybush rule.


". Honolulu, Hawaii. Total vote: 306,813. Obama percentage: 69.8%, up 18.8 points.
Not a surprise, given that it's Obama's birthplace. But another reason for the jump was that the county was uncharacteristically close in 2004: George W. Bush got 48%, and his 8.7-point jump from the previous election was one of the biggest increases in the US."

http://www.beyondredandblue.org/2009/02/where-was-obamas-surge-in-2008.html

Rep Neil Abercromie is running for Gov in 2010~!

"06-27-2009 - Dinner 2.0 with Kelly HuHawaii’s own Kelly Hu stopped by at Abercrombie headquarters today to talk to organizers of Neil’s campaign about her experiences campaigning for Barack Obama."



http://www.neilabercrombie.com/

[nini]

37. 2 things

She's a nurse and glad health care is in trouble
and
She understands why people want to shoot Obama.

Those two things alone are grounds for immediate avoidance.


ANY nurse who does not think health care needs to be fixed should lose their license because they're either too stupid or they're in nursing for the wrong reasons - either way they're a risk to patients.

[havocmom]

42. If we could rec a reply...

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

what nini said!

[malletgirl02]

44. I should have read the thread before I posted

I should have read the thread before I posted. You said it better than I did.

[malletgirl02]

40. Let me get this straight

Never mind the assassination thing, that is just crazy. She is a nurse, and is glad Obama's plan is failing? I would think nurses of all people would be glad a president is trying to do something about health care.

[spanone]

41. yea, god forbid she get good healthcare. i hope that doesn't happen.

[spanone]

45. that's frightening when you don't read that in someone and they turn out that way

[MadMaddie]

46. This is sad but the Repugs are driving this because this is all

they have.

They want a violent confrontation because they think everyone else in the country will cower to them. They are sorely mistaken!!

[jaysunb]

52. A couple of points.

1) She IS a risk to the President....by harboring these thoughts of killing him and letting you and who knows who else know it, is definitely a problem. This is the way things spiral out of control.

2)Every argument made by this person is simply a smoke screen to hide her real feelings. It's about race. That's all. :evilfrown:

[Naturyl]

56. Sorry to hear you unearthed her true colors.

It's never fun when you discover that someone you know is a delusional right-winger. You never know what's lurking under the surface. Like "Invasion of the Body Snatchers," it could be anybody.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. The argument wasn't going to change anyone's mind ...

... yet you were diverted from your goal of exercise.

Score one for the Republican.

:rofl:

(kidding)

:hi:

[troubledamerican]

63. What Mahina said >>>"We underestimate the power of this fear and hatred

"We underestimate the power of this fear and hatred at our country's peril."

Are we listening?

[Nay]

68. I have had this experience several times at my workplace. I also am

stunned that the hate radio has brought seemingly normal people to the precipice of craziness, and pushed them over the edge. It's frightening and should demonstrate, to even the dumbest person, how insidious and powerful propaganda is. There was a reason for the fairness doctrine, and for the former separation of the news desk from the commercial desk in TV. This country has a big, big problem all right, and I can hardly wait to move back to Canada. If I didn't have just 3 years until retirement, I would have gone back a while ago.

[WVRICK13]

75. I Wish You Luck

People like her are so caught up in their hatred they cannot see reality. The right wing is like the theocrats in the middle east, they want to protect their freedom by taking everyone else's freedom away. Since when is socialism a bad thing? Socialism is the government working to protect society as a whole. As far as protecting the Constitution that is a real joke. The Constitution is a farce until ALL citizens have equal rights under the law. As a gay man in a twenty year relationship I can tell you I DO NOT have equal rights in this country.

[mahina]

82. Will keep working for equal rights for all. I read you loud and clear.

Agreed 100%. Aloha.

[Autumn]

76. I heard the same in the 90's about

Bill Clinton. Only one I haven't heard yet is that he will declare marshall law. People are idiots.

[DemReadingDU]

77. Healthcare for the military, Medicare, Social Security

Ever hear of Republicans turn down these programs? Not that I can remember. Usually they are the first in line to receive them, and fight like hell when something is disallowed.

Why not health care for all? I'm willing to bet that Republicans will be the first in line to switch from their expensive private insurer to the single-payer (assuming it is passed).

[noiretextatique]

79. this is the insane racist underbelly of america

thank goodness it is finally being exposed for exactly what it is.

[katkat]

80. school?

What I wonder is, what were these people doing in school? Are they all pass them through regardless of grades types? What happened to civics classes? U.S. history classes? The woman is a nurse, she must have some brain cells, unless she's not an RN.

Sometimes I think the right wing wingnuts are the debris from the failure of our educational system, which as far as I can tell has declined sharply since I was a kid decades ago.