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davidswanson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 08:13 AM
Original message
Single-Payer Healthcare Gets a Vote
Congressman Anthony Weiner (D., N.Y.) has introduced an amendment in the House Energy and Commerce Committee that would replace the convoluted please-the-public-and-the-insurance-companies-at-the-same-time healthcare bill with the single-payer plan found in HR 676 and backed by 86 members of Congress. The vote has been delayed beyond Wednesday, support for the measure is growing, people are phoning in constantly, and a whip count is being kept online.

An amendment introduced by Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D, Ohio) was passed last week by the House Education and Labor Committee that will allow states to create single-payer systems if the federal government does not. So, if Weiner's amendment fails, we could still achieve single-payer state by state, and eventually nationally, if we are able to persuade congressional leadership not to strip Kucinich's amendment out behind the closed doors of a conference committee.

But it is entirely possible that Weiner's amendment will pass, and even if it does not pass the support it musters will nonetheless serve to improve the bill and maintain a useful public option. Weiner is a supporter of the existing bill and the public option, but clearly sees a value in pushing for something better both as a bargaining position and as an attempt to achieve a solution that we can be more confident would really solve our healthcare crisis. Weiner's column in the Politico today is worth reading in its entirety. After reading that, please come back here and watch this video of Weiner addressing the concerns of Republicans in the Energy and Commerce Committee.

While Weiner doesn't say this, I will: Everybody now knows that Republicans will oppose any healthcare bill. Worsening a bill in order to win over a few of them provides not a single person with better healthcare. Republicans are not needed and have nothing to add. But of course to pass healthcare reform you do have to win over all of the Democrats. And are you more likely to do that with a bill that wastes public dollars on an inefficient for-profit system, or with a bill like HR 676 that guarantees significant savings? While HR 676 is an approach that forces congress members to go against the wishes of health insurance and drug companies, the mixed-bad approach allows legitimate criticism of wasting money, and the insurance and drug companies still hate it.

Whichever approach you favor, we're going to be better off with a significant show of support for single-payer. With it, a useful public option becomes a compromise. Without it, the compromise to win over the worst Democrats has to begin with the current bill and move down from there. So keep the phones ringing.

Americans consistently tell pollsters that they want single-payer. And this is true in Blue Dog districts and Republican districts too. Single-payer is not a tough sell with the public, only with certain Congress members.

Other nations that have public health coverage (government spending on private or public healthcare) provide their people with better care. The U.S. system is ranked 37th by the World Health Organization. The United States is 24th in life expectancy and 29th in reducing infant mortality. Infants who do not survive the U.S. system do not get a chance to enjoy the free market and glory in the absence of socialism.

A single-payer system would cover everyone at all times with no exceptions, allow completely free choice of doctors, invest in preventive care, allow patients and doctors to make their own decisions free of insurance company restrictions, reduce the 30 percent waste in the current system to the 3 percent overhead in Medicare, and create a net gain of 2.6 million jobs, $317 billion in business revenue, and $100 billion in wages. Single-payer is a real economic stimulus, something Washington has been looking for in all the wrong places. Imagine being able to make that argument. We can if we pass Congressman Weiner's amendment.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks for this!!
Single payer is good for the physical and fiscal health of the people! K&R
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
13. Singing to the choir.We all feel the same way Weiner does.He expresses it so well.
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bjobotts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. Why is it we have to fight so hard with congress to do what we elected them to do
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. I believe tha state-by-state approach is about the way Canada did it.
The Bogyman of State-by-State is that whichever state does it first will be deluged and bankrupted by freeloading invaders from out of state.
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offog Donating Member (263 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Not quite correct, Jackpine Radical.
Health care in Canada mostly comes under provincial jurisdiction, but there are still national standards that each provincial government has to stick to. A province can't decide that it won't cover procedures that all the other provinces cover. For example, abortion is legal in Canada. Powerful people in the Conservative ("Tory") government of Alberta might not want Medicare to pay for abortions, but if the Tories ever decided to de-list abortions, they'd be in big legal trouble. (Alberta is sort of Canada's answer to Texas.)

In Canada, Saskatchewan was the first province to introduce Medicare, back in the early 1960s. But national medicare came in a few years after that, thanks to the Federal government of the time. During those few years, Saskatchewan was not "bankrupted by freeloading invaders" from out of province. I know that because I live in Saskatchewan.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I was talking about how it began, not how it is now.
Also, I know the "freeloader" myth is just that: a myth, a bogeyman.

Incidentally, I have a lot of relatives up northeast of Lloydminster--little town of St Walburg and Brightsand Lake, if you've ever heard of it.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:30 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Though the problem we'd have with a state by state approach
is that some states might have really great programs and others would have nothing. The inequity would be worse than what it is now.

Then, there are states (like Minnesota) who are cutting what medical programs they currently have. I just don't see this approach working in the current economy.

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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
20. It creates jobs which creates tax revenues. It means everyone spends less.
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:14 AM
Response to Reply #20
26. ^The job creation benefit should be emphasised^
John, you often mention good ideas.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 03:35 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Why thank you.
http://www.calnurses.org/research/

Medicare for All (Single Payer) Reform Would Be Major Stimulus for Economy with 2.6 Million New Jobs, $317 Billion in Business Revenue, $100 Billion in Wages. The number of jobs created by a single payer system, expanding and upgrading Medicare to cover everyone, parallels almost exactly the total job loss in 2008, according to the findings of a groundbreaking study released today.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #27
38. But wouldn't Medicare for All be a federal program?
which is great and is what we need. It is the only system that will actually get everyone covered & control costs by taking the profit out of insurance. And, as you said, create more jobs.

It's how well a state by state solution would work is what I question.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. Social Security started in Montana. Single Payer started in one province in Canada. Often
states pass programs and if they work they are then copied by other states, and then done nationally.

It's the nature of innovation. My point is that since single payer costs less than the current non-system it costs less than the current non-system state by state as well.

It doesn't cost extra money, it costs less money. Whether you do it in a state or you do it nationally.


We may have to face the situation that the only way we are going to get single payer is state by state. I sure want that option at least.

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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. I see your point now
and it does help me feel a bit better about the state by state idea. Especially as I live in a state that might go for it (isn't that selfish) - assuming the DFL holds on to the legislature and we manage to get a better governor next time around.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 05:59 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. That was the approach I took in a email to my Senators earlier in the year
by taking the health insurance burden off of business, they can then focus on creating jobs and innovation. Not that I care too much about the worries of the corporations, but it is a sell point when it comes to writing to a Republican.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 10:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. It's not just big business. The effects on startups would be dramatic.
In the past I have speculated that one of the reasons the big guys haven't agitated for single-payer is that it keeps small businesses from forming to compete with them. Much innovation is stifled because people are trapped in their jobs by the need for health coverage.
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. It's true about indviduals stuck, i wonder if it's used to stifle competition.
Interesting question.

If true, globalization should moderate that since it cuts both ways when competing internationally.
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Orwellian_Ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. K&R
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Kick, recommend, and calling. nt
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chatnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
8. K&R
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. Made some calls this morning, thanks. n/t
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Anyone who thinks the Blue Dogs and LieberDems would
support single payer is on crack.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #10
23. Ours will or she's going to be out on her ass in 2011!
Edited on Thu Jul-23-09 01:05 AM by ProudDad
If that means a republican, so be it.

Until some Dems feel some goddamn pain, they'll continue to lie to get our vote and shit on us when they get in...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
11. kick nt
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-22-09 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
12. Obama actually pointed to the single-payer system tonight
in the context of "Well, the only way to guarantee 100% participation is single payer" (paraphrased).

Which I thought was yet another deft touch.


And kudos to everyone who is standing strong for single-payer.


K&R.
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
15. Thank goodness, I thought single payer was dead and buried (ex. for the state option)
I'll call first thing tomorrow. Thanks for all the great links and summary!
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
16. K&R
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
17. It's not too late for Obama to endorse single-payer. For him not to endorse is like having the


captain of a football team tell the team that we can't win the game (single payer), we have to hope for a tie (public option).

Surely the former editor of the Harvard law review understands the basics of negotiation - YOU DON'T START WITH WHERE YOU WANT TO FINISH!

He should get back on board with HR676, and start pushing hard, then he can settle for the public option in the final go round - if he needs too - which he won't because single-payer is really the only system that meets the fiscal issues that everyone suddenly seems to think are so important (only when it pertains to health care, of course, not to war or bail-outs for billionaires).

IMHO



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wroberts189 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
18. +45 ..awesome post
"Whichever approach you favor, we're going to be better off with a significant show of support for single-payer. With it, a useful public option becomes a compromise."

Thank you
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Hutzpa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:37 AM
Response to Original message
19. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

K&R


:kick:
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
21. No more band-aide solutions!
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. HUGE K&R (n/t)
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crickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 01:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. Woot! K&R
Single-payer is a real economic stimulus, something Washington has been looking for in all the wrong places.

Excellent point, excellent post!
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. KICK AND RECOMMEND!!!
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Unca Jim Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:03 AM
Response to Original message
29. Not that I'm against Single Payer or disbelieve your claims...
but the government jobs created would probably be offset by those lost in the insurance industry.

Probably not a good talking point.
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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:19 AM
Response to Original message
30. K&+R
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
31. Recommended with prejudice.
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abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
33. From my Congressman, Chairman Waxman:
But first my reply to the response:

I appreciate the “canned” response, but where do you stand on single payer? Will you be voting for the Weiner Amendment? According to this source
(http://www.democrats.com/single-payer-committee-whip ) you are for public option only.

That’s not good enough for me.

And it’s not good enough for America.

You can do better sir.

Jim XXXXXXXXX.

*****************************************************************************

Dear Mr. XXXXXXXX:

Thank you for contacting me about your priorities for comprehensive health care reform. As Chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, I am working hard with my colleagues in the House and Senate and with the Obama Administration to craft legislation on this critically important issue, which affects every American family.

I am a longtime supporter of efforts to provide comprehensive health care coverage for all, control medical and insurance costs, and enhance the quality and efficiency of the health care system. According to Families USA, nearly 87 million people-more than one-third of Americans under 65-went without health insurance at some point during the last two years. Uninsured patients go without the care they need and face the constant risk of ruinous debt if they contract a serious disease or have an accident. Those who have health insurance are finding their insurance plans are costing more and covering less. Furthermore, the cost of health care accounts for an increasingly large share of the economy and of government spending, and poses a fundamental threat to our economic stability and future prosperity.

On July 14, I joined with House Democratic leaders to introduce H.R. 3200, the America's Affordable Health Choice Act of 2009. This legislation will reduce health care costs, protect and increase consumers' choices, and guarantee access to quality, affordable health care for all Americans. I hope you will visit http://energycommerce.house.gov/index.php for details about the bill, and you can count on me to keep your concerns in mind as the legislative process moves forward.

Thank you again for writing. I look forward to hearing from you again in the future on matters of concern.



With kind regards, I am

Sincerely,

HENRY A. WAXMAN
Member of Congress
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mnhtnbb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
34. Here's an e-mail I just received with names and phone #'s to call:
At last night's press conference on healthcare, President Obama shocked the media with a very inconvenient truth:

"I want to cover everybody. Now, the truth is that, unless you have a single-payer system, in which everybody is automatically covered, then you're probably not going to reach every single individual."

So why won't our elected Democrats in Washington fight for a single-payer system that will cover everyone? Especially when it's the only system that will actually save money by eliminating 30% in utterly wasted overhead from greedy insurance giants?

A dedicated group of 86 Democrats are fighting for single-payer ( H.R. 676 ), and they need our help today.

The battle over single-payer is in the House Energy & Commerce Committee (E&C). The committee was supposed to vote on Rep. Anthony Weiner's single-payer amendment on Monday, but chairman Henry Waxman keeps postponing the vote because it might pass - just like the Kucinich Amendment for a single-payer state option passed on July 17 by a shocking 25-19 bi-partisan majority.

Lean Yes
Diana DeGette CO01 202-225-4431
Jane Harman CA36 202-225-8220
Christopher Murphy CT05 202-225-4476
Frank Pallone NJ06 202-225-4671 @FrankPallone
Bobby Rush IL01 202-225-4372
Peter Welch VT00 202-225-4115
Today we're told the vote could be tomorrow ( Friday ). This week we asked our 600,000 supporters to call all 35 Democrats. Based on your calls, we identified 7 solid yes and 6 more lean yes:
http://www.democrats.com/single-payer-committee-whip

Can you call the 6 lean yes and convince them to become solid yes on Rep. Anthony Weiner's single-payer amendment in the Energy & Commerce Committee?

Won't Say / "Not Enought Votes"
Rick Boucher VA09 202-225-3861
Bruce Braley IA01 202-225-2911
G.K. Butterfield NC01 202-225-3101
Lois Capps CA23 202-225-3601
Kathy Castor FL11 202-225-3376
John Dingell MI15 202-225-4071
Charles Gonzalez TX20 202-225-3236
Gene Green TX29 202-225-1688
Jay Inslee WA01 202-225-6311 @RepInsleeNews
Doris Matsui CA05 202-225-7163
Jerry McNerney CA11 202-225-1947
John Sarbanes MD03 202-225-4016
Bart Stupak MI01 202-225-4735
Betty Sutton OH13 202-225-3401
Henry Waxman (Chair) CA30 202-225-3976
Hill staffers privately tell us your calls are "very helpful." Please post a comment about your calls so we can update our whip list here:
http://www.democrats.com/single-payer-committee-whip

In addition, these 15 Democrats won't say whether they support single-payer, or claim there aren't enough votes for it to pass. But if they all vote for it, it will pass! See if you can convince them.

Also, be sure to send our Single Payer petition to your Representatives, and forward it to everyone you know who needs and deserves better healthcare:
http://www.democrats.com/single-payer-petition?cid=ZGVtczE1ODQ1MmRlbXM=

And finally if you can be in DC on Thursday July 30, join us to celebrate the 44th birthday of Medicare and rally/lobby for single-payer:
http://www.democrats.com/node/19877

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abumbyanyothername Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. Called Representative Waxman and . . .
Hearings are not definitively scheduled for tomorrow. No commitment to do anything except pass along my concerns.

I did tell him that if there were a national referendum on health care, single payer would pass, and by double digits.
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AuntPatsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. good information, thank you for compiling this list...
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DawgHouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-23-09 12:43 PM
Response to Original message
37. thanks for this!
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HOLOS Donating Member (390 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-26-09 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
42. kick
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