Health Care Reform will not actually lead to better Health Care.

[cbdo2007]

It's estimated various places that as many as 98,000 people die every year in hospitals due to medical error. (http://www.ahrq.gov/qual/errorsix.htm)

If Health Care Reform that includes a Public Option plan is implemented, millions more people will potentially be getting Health Care in our country, possibly overwhelming the system, yet surely adding tens of thousands of new deaths occurring each year due to medical error.

"First things first"

We all agree that Health Care Reform needs to be implemented in some form, but without fixing many of the existing problems with medical records, medical error, etc. we will be compounding these problems which need to be addressed first.

[havocmom]

1. Won't help much where doctors are retiring in droves

[cbdo2007]

5. what won't help much?

A public option won't help much?

Fixing the medical errors?

I have no idea what you're referring to here.

[Vinca]

2. At least a whole lot of us would have a chance.

There will always be medical errors and the "system" will never be perfect. Waiting for the moon and stars to perfectly align will mean thousands upon thousands of deaths of people who do not have access to any health care, error prone or not.

[cbdo2007]

4. "waiting for the moon and stars..."

ha ha. No one's saying get it down to Zero deaths but all of these un-necessary deaths lead to hundreds of millions of dollars lost by hospitals and insurance companies which lead to higher rates for everyone.

Rushing a Public Option into a broken system is similar to invading Iraq for 9/11 even though the truth was slowly coming out that Iraq wasn't involved in 9/11. I wish they had waited for the "moon and starts to perfectly align" before rushing that.

[Name removed]

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[rurallib]

6. Not sure what that has to do with the 100 million or so

that either have no insurance or pre-existing conditions or can't afford deductibles or co-pays OR whose insurance dumps them.
What you are talking about is something entirely different than the health care reform most of us are talking about. Many of us would like access.
But it does bring up an intersting observation. Why would we want tort reform if there is that much error in the system?

[cbdo2007]

8. Right...you're almost putting it together...

it's a numbers game...46 million American's are uninsured which is 1/6th approx of the population. Currently 98,000 people die each year from medical errors. Sure, this number will/can be fudged a little bit either way, but it's safe to assume that adding 46 million people to this system will increase that number by 1/6th.

I understand about access and I want that too, but like I said, "First things First". Let's fix the current system, which should already lower the cost of health care a great deal, then add the uninsured to a better system, which will cost us all less money in tax dollars and stuff.

[rurallib]

10. no - let's let people have access first and then maybe some

public pressure through our representatives will go a long way towards fixing other problems. If the insurance companies were worth a fuck they would be putting pressure on hospitals at al. now.
No, no more fucking delays. I think 60 years is way long enough. We are now becoming the backwater of health care in the western world.
No more fucking delays.
What do you propose to fix the current system? Some mileposts that we must reach before us the unwashed can have access to the system.
Sounds a lot like that repug argument to let the system cure itself for 10 years and then measure it.
Health care leaders promised changes to Nixon, to Carter, to Clinton. Under Reagan the HMO was going to solve all these problems.
No, no, no my friend, no more fucking delays.
And if if you really are concerned about tax dollars, get 100% behind single payer, a social insurance system.

[cbdo2007]

11. Wow, you're making the jump of accusing me of being a repug because of this?

Your right...let's make a change to the absolute extreme of where we're at now. I'm sure if we all hold hands and "hope" together it will be a smooth transition. *laughs*

In fact forget fixing anything...let's just give everyone their own personal incompetent doctor in their house cause gosh darn it, an incompetent doctor for every person is better than smart doctors for the majority of people. Good plan there slim.

[rurallib]

18. didn't accuse you of anything.

All I said was it makes no sense to wait. Delaying tactics. I can are one of the hundreds of tactics that repugs have floated. I can guarantee that whatever criteria are put forth to be met before a transition to universal health care begins, such criteria will never be met. It has been far long enough. Over 60 years.
If it is delayed now, then something else will come up so that the time is not right etc, etc, etc.
Canada didn't wait, nor the UK nor for that matter anybody but us. Even Taiwan bit the bullet.

[WRPendleton]

12. Let me get this straight...

Your argument is that we should leave 46 million out of the health care system because if we brought them in there may be medical errors that would occur? What do you suppose the health care outcome currently is for those 46 million? You seem to be discounting what number of those folks might be saved by having access to health care. Even if the error rate went up with larger numbers of people being covered, do you believe it will be larger than the death rate of folks that simply have no access to health care? If so it seems like you are suggesting that more people will die if those 46 million are included than if those people just went without health care at all. That just doesn't ring true to me.

[hughee99]

14. If the errors occur because the system doesn't have sufficient resources...

then adding more people to it will increase the frequency of medical errors. It's one thing to provide 46 million Americans with health insurance, it's another to have a health care infrastructure that can handle an additional 46 million people. While I don't believe this is a reason to avoid providing insurance for all, this is an issue that needs to be addressed now. If not, it will make it very easy for opponents to attack and dismantle a new system before it gets off the ground.

[cbdo2007]

16. The errors are occurring due to a number of factors...

One of which is that doctors handwriting is so bad that people get the wrong prescription, which mixes poorly with their other prescriptions.

Like I've said, adding 46 million people to a system that is broken with too little regulation, too little technology, insufficient resources for an influx of 1/6th of the American population is going to lead to the ultimate clusterf*ck 10 years down the road.

The "Public Option" being debated is like a fancy suit on someone who isn't nearly qualified enough for the job he is trying to get. Sure he may look nice and the average person is going to look at him and get all excited and hire him right away, but the smart person who talks to him and interviews him a little bit will find out that he isn't qualified and will pass on him. Even though they really need to hire someone, it's worth it more to hold out for a better plan than to just hire the first person that comes along.

[hughee99]

17. I suspect it won't be 10 years down the road where the issue comes...

Given time, infrastructure can be built and staff can be educated and trained. The problem will be noticeable from day one when 1200 people start showing up (or trying to make appointments) for facilities that are only designed and staffed for 1000. You can't hire thousands of doctors and nurses overnight, nor can you process an increasing number of patients paperwork, labs, etc, in the same amount of time without adding more staff and facilities, which also can't be done overnight. They'll be lots of new job openings in the medical fields, but not enough trained people to handle them initially. As a result, service and quality will drop because you don't have enough resources. These issues can be addressed, given time, but there will be growing pains.

[DailyGrind51]

7. The next step is to make capitation in med schools contingent on expanding enrollment!

[walldude]

9. Well I can wait. Haven't had insurance or any kind of medical care

for nearing 10 years. Why would I, there are sick people in my family, there is no profit to be made on me.


This has to be the worst excuse for not fixing the health care I have seen next to "You wouldn't want a bureaucrat in between you and your doctor, your much better off with an insurance industry accountant in between you and your doctor".

Gimme a fucking break. I'll never die due to medical error because I have no medical care.

[Maru Kitteh]

13. You healthcare Debbie Downers are like a BAD RASH today. Skeered arr ya?

Do you imagine that we don't know where you come from? We do. Now, imagine me telling you where to go.

[cbdo2007]

15. What are you talking about?

Seems like you're the one "skeered" of an intelligent conversation.