Lunch with an old right-wing friend.

[The Backlash Cometh]

We parted ways a few years back, mainly because we had nothing in common politically at a time when it made all the difference in the world and what had brought us together was activism. But, the Presidential 2000 election was like the end of a Midsummer Night's Dream when you wake up and realize you've been sharing private conversation with the wrong person.

However, I heard she had suffered a loss in the family recently, and while I was transcribing tapes, I heard the voice of the recently departed and I grew nostalgic. So, I called her to go out to lunch. My way of paying my respects.

I knew I was going to be good, and wasn't going to bring up politics, but, it seemed she needed someone to talk to. So I listened when she brought things up, and, at first, I was shocked at how similar our complaints are about certain things.

Like, how the media doesn't tell us everything.

How there really is only one party. She had felt so betrayed by her party, that she was no longer a Republican.

Then she started talking about how they intentionally keep us in fear and I finished her sentence, "in order to control us."

Then, right when I thought we had reached common ground, she starts with right-wing radio dribble. Apparently, there is no where to retreat for an ex-Republican, but back in the hopper. So, this is what she says, and I wouldn't mind it if people commented on her statements, since I intend to take her out to lunch again.

-- Barney Frank was involved with a pedophile ring, but she understands that Poppy Bush was also accused of the same thing.

-- Obama picked a man for Science Czar (Holden) who believed in compulsory abortion and sterilization, though she didn't specify for whom. Why she is afraid of him is that she's afraid the swine flu vaccine will be mandatory and she had Gueron Beret (I know it's a misspelling) and she is afraid that there will be deaths and more immunity-depressing side effects.

--They're (I guess she means us) are trying to close down right-wing radio, and what happened to the days when we could disagree. Now we can't talk or write e-mail without fear that we're being watched. Though, this argument I won by pointing out that Bush signed the Patriot Act, and most of the controversial legislation comes from that.

--Why is it that whenever a Republican does something wrong, it gets broadcast by every newschannel? And why did they tear down that nice woman, Sarah Palin? Though, I won this last argument when I told her that we were all concerned that she would be one heartbeat away from the presidency and she showed no real knowledge of foreign affairs and we've already had that experience with Bush.

Well, that's pretty much it.

[DeadEyeDyck]

1. did you get laid?

might had made the whole thing worth it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Oh, you are so way off.

We're old enough to be your grandmother.

[DeadEyeDyck]

15. what do they say?

where there is fire in the furnace... :)

[Tarheel_Dem]

2. You've earned a cookie. I admire your willingness to discuss anything..

political with rightwing friends and family members. It's understood in my circle, that we just don't go there. Cowardice? Probably. But it preserves relationships, such as they are.

I find it amusing that we were told, repeatedly, after the passage of the Patriot Act that if we weren't doing anything wrong, we had nothing to fear. And now they're afraid of the very monster they helped create.

Oh, I almost forgot....take your pick.

[The Backlash Cometh]

5. It's a conundrum.

They're in a state of suspension since they have no leader, but because this is an uncertain time, they are fearful, and that fear will eventually be exploited by someone.

[Tarheel_Dem]

7. It's already being exploited. Sadly, that's what all the teabagging's about. (nt)

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

4. I have one right wing friend that I get along with and actually discuss

without going crazy. We agreed that we would each read one book of the other's choice but would try to stay away from polarizing screeds. I recommended The Best Government Money Can Buy and I think he reccommended Parliament of Whores by PJ O'Rourke which is kind of funny as they are based on the same theme - Congress is corrupt and doesn't serve the needs of the people.

You might try something like that. This friend and I are still amiable and still respect each other. I have definitely turned his thinking more than he has turned mine.


I have another Republican friend that our politics caused a complete schism. I told him that Republicanism is perfect for anyone who is fabulously wealthy, doesn't fear getting a catastrophic illness (always reminding people than even Superman needed help with his healthcare)and doesn't give a rat's ass about anyone else, and that therefore, he did not QUALIFY to be a Republican. I think he was most offended at my implying that he didn't make enough money to be a good Republican.

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. I think it helps that she doesn't consider herself a Republican anymore.

She's willing to take criticism. And I'm willing to listen when she tells me what she doesn't like about the Dems.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. Well dems is like herding cats

so yes, we will criticize each other and accept it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

9. Shedding the GOP label is helpful. It would help even more if she could recognize that

the GOP uses Christian moralizing, abortion, and fear of nonwhites and foreigners to get power.

[pnorman]

12. "..... Republicanism is perfect for anyone who is fabulously wealthy, "

That brings to mind that famous quote by Harry Truman: "If you want to live like a Republican, then vote DEMOCRAT!"

pnorman

[Warpy]

13. I do have Republican friends

but the difference for me is that they're thoughtful people who have been given a lot of bogus information and have arrived at the wrong conclusions. I'm pretty sure they think the same of me.

None of them would consider ranting radio garbage at me because I've been pretty clear about where the line is. I refrain from lecturing them.

The bottom line is that good people get to be wrong about things, a privilege I extend to myself, too.

It's just a pity there are so few good people left in that party. They're down to the absolute dregs now.

[imdjh]

14. Does PJ O'Rourke annoy you as much as he does me?

Honestly, I think he could be on TV demanding Single Payer and LGBT rights and I would still want to kick his ass down the street.

[texanshatingbush]

20. My book suggestion would have been.....

...."Conservatives without Conscience" by John Dean. It gave me some real insights into how Republicans changed from "people with whom you could have an honest difference of opinion" back in the 50's to today's "my way or wrong AND you will be catastrophically punished by God"

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Thing is, now that the shoe is on the other foot, they have discovered empathy.

Of course, we're the ones that are expected to apply it.

[noamnety]

10. In some areas there is a wall between you

and in other areas, just a very fluid boundary.

Next time you see her, you could focus on the areas where the wall is (the hopper they retreat to), and she will probably respond by adding a few reinforcements to that wall. Or you could focus on the areas where you are close, and tug her just a little bit more into the light. But you won't do it by being defensive of democrats and attacking republicans - you'll do it by focusing on common values and admitting when both parties are at fault. The Patriot Act, for instance ... she opposes privacy invasions by the government into our private lives. Good. Encourage that, but don't blame just Bush, because in truth democrats helped write that bill and voted for it if I recall. Better to say "I agree, and both parties are at fault there." You'll have more credibility on the issues when you admit that.

I can't tell from a profile whether you are a man or a woman, but there are some elements of your post that remind me of a friend (a guy, incidentally) talking about styles of communication, and how men tend to focus on "scoring points." I don't know if that really is a guy thing or not, we all tend to do it in varying amounts. But the conversation did make me more aware of those dynamics when they arise.

I bring that up because a few times you wrote that you "won" a particular argument, as if it's a competition instead of a dialogue.

[The Backlash Cometh]

17. I did agree with her on some points regarding Dems.

I told her that the Dems went along with the Repubs on the Patriot Act. I also agreed with her that we had no business in Afghanistan anymore. They all thought it would be a slam bang kind of thing, but the longer they delay in leaving, the more they believe that it was always all about the oil.

And, actually, I'm a woman. However, in the newsgroups I must come across more forceful than I do in real life. Once, on an Irish newsgroup where foreigners were only tolerated if they could keep up with the Irish wit, they guessed I was a drag Queen because they couldn't pin down my sex.

[imdjh]

11. Some of it's laziness, some of it is malicious, and some of it is a difference of opinion.

I called up an old friend a while ago for a quick hello that turned into a long chat. I was saddened to find out that he and his brother don't talk much anymore. They never were pals, but they were social when all of our mutual friends fell within an age-range and physical proximity, ie high school. It seemed they simply disagreed too often and my friend didn't care for the rage or debate style of his brother. At some point I offered my then opinion that there was a logical answer to every issue. "No, DJ, some things are simply a matter of opinion." I was a bit surprised that my formerly opinionated friend who was never lacking in certainty of his own superiority was making what I recognized as a true and very mature statement of philosophy and policy.

It's important to separate laziness, maliciousness, and mere difference of opinion in dealing with people like your friend. They aren't going to go away, and they aren't likely to switch teams.

There are people here on DU who have expressed their desire to effect changes in our society which are unconstitutional, immoral, and counterproductive. They fly under the radar for the most part, because most people avoid unnecessary and ultimately pointless confrontation, but they are here. The perception might be that our own extremists are somehow better intentioned or benign than right wing extremists, and often that's true but usually it's a matter of opinion.

We all have our whackos.

[Stevenmarc]

16. OK I'll take one

"In 1989, Frank found himself in a major scandal. Four years earlier, Frank had engaged the services of a male escort named Stephen Gobie. Frank later hired Gobie as a driver despite knowing that he was on probation. Frank also used his House privileges to waive Gobie's parking tickets. When Frank discovered that Gobie was running a prostitution service out of his Capitol Hill apartment, he fired him. Gobie responded by telling his story to the news media. Attempts to expel or censure Frank, led by members of the House Ethics Committee who included Rep. Larry Craig, failed."

Source:

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/politics/2009/03/27/10-things-you-didnt-know-about-barney-frank.html

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. Thanks. That's helpful.

If it had happened to a Republican, I would be as skeptical as she is.

[sam sarrha]

19. the.."there are no good politicians" nihilism, is simply to explain their own putrid stench.. there

is always a "but" those democrats _________________ <insert any disgusting electrically charged emotional lie you wish

[louis-t]

21. I think you refer to 'Guillaume-Barre' syndrome.