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WHO’S “QUALIFIED”??? more on the New Haven firefighters case

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Omaha Steve Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:30 PM
Original message
WHO’S “QUALIFIED”??? more on the New Haven firefighters case

http://gangbox.wordpress.com/2009/07/11/whos-qualified-more-on-the-new-haven-firefighters-case/

Posted in Uncategorized by gangbox on the July 11, 2009

from the NEW YORK TIMES:

Op-Ed Contributors
Trial by Firefighters

// //

By LANI GUINIER and SUSAN STURM

Published: July 10, 2009

STANDING on the steps of the federal courthouse in New Haven, the lawyer Karen Torre reveled in her clients’ victory in a recent case before the Supreme Court. She anointed her clients — the white firefighters who scored well on a promotion test — “a symbol” for millions of Americans who are “tired of seeing individual achievement and merit take a back seat to race and ethnicity.”

But the Supreme Court’s 5-to-4 decision last month — that New Haven should not have scrapped the test — perpetuates profound misconceptions about the capacity of paper-and-pencil tests to gauge a person’s potential on the job. Exams like the one the New Haven firefighters took are neither designed nor administered to identify the employees most qualified for promotion. And Ms. Torre’s identity-politics sloganeering diverts attention from what we need most: a clear-eyed reassessment of our blind faith in entrenched testing regimes.

New Haven used a multiple-choice test to measure its firefighters’ retention of information from national firefighting textbooks and study guides. Civil service tests like these do not identify people who are best suited for leadership positions. The most important skills of any fire department lieutenant or captain are steady command presence, sound judgment and the ability to make life-or-death decisions under pressure. In a city that is nearly 60 percent black and Latino, the ability to promote cross-racial harmony under stress is also crucial.

These skills are not well measured by tests that reward memorization and ask irrelevant questions like whether it is best to approach a particular emergency from uptown or downtown even when the city isn’t oriented that way. The Civil Service Board in New Haven declined to certify the test not only because of concerns about difference in scores between black and white firefighters but also because it failed to assess qualities essential for firefighting.

As Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg noted in her dissent, tests drawn from national textbooks often do not match a city’s local firefighting needs. Most American fire departments have abandoned such tests or limited the multiple-choice format to 30 percent or less of an applicant’s score. In New Haven, the test still accounted for 60 percent of the score. Compounding the problem, insignificant numerical score differences were used to rank the firefighter candidates.

What should a city do when its promotion test puts a majority of its population at a disadvantage and is also unlikely to predict essential job performance? People who excel on such a test may expect to be promoted. But testing should not be about allocating prizes to winners. No one has a proprietary right to a particular open job, even if that person worked hard preparing for a test.

When a city replaces a bad test, as New Haven wanted to do, the employees who did well on it do not lose their right to compete for promotions; they merely need to compete according to procedures that actually identify people who advance the mission of saving lives and property — and enhance the department’s reputation in the community for treating all citizens with respect.

FULL story at link.

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UndertheOcean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Well, they can always try to improve the test , but their must always be a test
And if you want the Job , hit the textbooks . It bothers me how much people excuse laziness in this country
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anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Textbooks and education are expensive. Not everyone was born into an upper middle class family.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Your assumption is specious -
I was born into a very lower class (economically, that is) family - my mother a factory worker, my father a postal clerk. But they valued education, and I was smart. Worked hard, got scholarships, got a great education.

It's not about money, not at all. It's about hard work and staying with it..................
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. and ricci himself had to study HARDER than the others
because he's a dyslexic. he's not asking for special treatment, just fairness, due process, rule of law, and labor rights.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. That wasn't in your post about education -
so where are you going on this little tangent you just made up?

Never mind - you've rendered yourself meaningless, and invisible..............
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. only to those wishing to ignore truth
hth
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proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. They're adults.
Who already have a job. If they can be firefighters in the first place, they can buy books and study for a promotion.
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rurallib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
3. Based on knowledge of football, Jerry Burns should have been one of the best ever.
When he succeeded Evashevski at Iowa in 1961 he had the best material in the nation and led it to a losing season.
Later with the Vikings he had a near exact repeat of his earlier debacle.
He knew football inside and out, but couldn't coach or lead.
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paulsby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
6. ah, this tired argument again
nobody claims the new haven test was the best test. i'm a former firefighter, currently a cop. ive taken a lot of these kinds of tests before. that's simply not the issue. the issue is the test results were THROWN out with NO evidence that there was racial bias (and there is still no evidence that the test is racially biased). it's a matter of due process, fairness, and labor rights. this was the test that was announced, and this was the test that the applicants spent hundreds of hours (in some cases) studying for. if it wasn't the best test( which it wasn't) then get a better test next time. but that's not why they threw out out the test anyway. they threw it out based on the RACE of those that passed it. pure discrimination. their putative reason was fear of getting sued, and god knows, i can empathize with that, but it's still racist and wrong.
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Statistical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Exactly to rephrae it that "multiple choice" isn't good is being dishonest.
Multiple choice likely isn't the best choice for a test but it was used before without issue.

In the court case the city admits that the only reason for throwing out the test was the city feared they would be sued.

The city didn't throw out the test to use a non multiple choice test. The replacement test likely would be multiple choice too.

The city ONLY threw out the test to avoid being sued.
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ProgressiveProfessor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-11-09 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. There was more to it than just multple choice as well
Surprisingly the authors "overlooked" that.
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