Dear Freeptards;

[The Doctor.]

(response copied from http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5959605">here)

Al Franken won. Welcome to Democracy.

When Norm Coleman said that Al Franken should concede the race 'for the sake of the people of Minnesota', you were all behind him. Then, when Coleman refused to concede 'for the sake of Minnesota', you embraced the hypocrisy and stayed right behind him.

Why are you all such hypocrites?

I'll tell you; Because you are not politically inclined, you are, for all intents and purposes; sports fans. Here's a flash for all of you; Politics is not a 'sport'. In sports, you can always agree with the call against the other team while arguing with the same call against your team. That's what a 'fanatic' does after all... they believe their cause is so 'right' that they can break the rules they impose upon everyone else.

But fanatics do not belong in politics.

You cannot handle the layers of interest involved in Politics. You cannot parse the intricacies or nuances or weigh all the disparate factors that come into play when establishing policy. You are trapped in the 'all or nothing', 'with us or against us', 'right/wrong, good/evil, black/white' mentality that http://stupidevilbastard.com/index/seb/comments/new_study_shows_liberal_and_conservative_brains_are_wired_differently/">abhors complexity.

You do not belong in politics, you belong in a sports arena watching a game, wearing facepaint, drinking beer, and getting into fights over issues that do not ultimately affect the lives of millions of people at a time.

You cheered and jeered when 'your side' broke all the rules, ignored treaties, violated the Constitution, threw off accountability, and plunged the nation into disaster. Well, the politicians that make up 'your team' fully count on idiot sport's fans to support them no matter what they do. That way they can get away with screwing everyone... including their fans. Now we get to watch you guys put your hypocrite hats on and go rabid over even perceived infractions of 'our team'... just like sport's fans.

Well, aside from some of the responses on DU, 'our side' tends to hold their 'team' accountable for it's misdeeds. No doubt you've seen all the railing against Obama by DUer's and thought, in your limited scope of understanding, that it was some sign of 'weakness'. Well, it's not. What it really is is concern that no matter who is in charge, they are serving We The People rather than themselves.

That's because that's what Politics is all about.

So please, get out of politics and dedicate yourselves full time to watching sports. That way you can be the biggest, most fanatical hypocrites on Earth and no one will have to pay the price for it the way we have after eight years of 'your team' running things.

Rah... Fucking... Rah.


{oe}; Thread/DU

[Subdivisions]

1. Whoop! First rec. K &R! n/t

[Old and In the Way]

2. I've made that observation as well.

Politics as a game where one side "wins" and the other side "loses" is exactly how they perceive it. Except that everyone loses when it comes to getting anything done in Washington. I rememvber a time when coalitions from both parties made legislation...where good legislation trumped tribal identity. Obviously, the Democratic Party still has elected representatives that reflect a wide variety of governing philosophies. Not so any longer in the Republican Party.

To take your analogy one step further, while everyone is at the stadium rooting their team to victory, the owners are busy cleaning out their homes...

[The Doctor.]

6. Exxxx-actly!

The corporate powers-that-be know damn well that there are plenty of people like us who will expose their abuse and take their power back.

Solution?

Divide the people, and through the magic of behavioral science, put legions of mindless fanatics between your corporate self and the justice of the people.

Eventually, once everything that has been taken has been taken, the trick is to foment civil war so that the people fall upon one-another rather than seek retribution upon the real culprits.

The Freeptards have been brainwashed, through the grace of limited cognitive ability, to act out against their own best interests. Then, when we jump up and down trying to tell them what's happening, their natural adversarial mentality keeps them comfortably ignorant.

And don't even get me started on 'projection'...

[Joe Fields]

3. Wow. Just Wow!!!!

Thank you. I think your analysis is spot on.

K&R!!!

[jhain]

4. Pefection

Said so myself a billion times- WELL DONE!!

[EnviroBat]

5. There are members of my family that are RW Fundies.

Now, I don't know when they were brainwashed. I suspect my sister went over when she married a RW moron from a fundie christian family. All she spouts now is RW talking points, and church. Whenever I try to debate these people, I attempt to stay cool, collected, and I try to keep an open mind, and not become defensive. The problem is there are RW people that I consider friends and neighbors, but I really find myself feeling dumber when I hang out with them. When I try to "get along" with them, and engage in friendly conversation, the activity of holding back and biting my tongue when I hear stupid statements being made makes me feel "stupider". It's almost embarrassing sometimes. I've pretty much disowned my father after he revealed himself as a bigot, McCain ass-smooch. I can't stand the man anymore, and when I tried to sheepishly agree with him to maintain some sad semblance of a relationship, I couldn't get home fast enough to wash the filth off.

I'm becoming intolerant of republicans lately. To the point where there no longer is a debate. I simply tell them to fuck off, and remove me from you address book. I've told a number of them that I used to consider friends to go in and watch ESPN. I don't even feel the need to engage in debate with these people any more. I'm simply writing them off, and out of my personal life.

Play Ball Morons!

[The Doctor.]

7. I have devised a different approach.

Once they start in with their pre-programmed talking points, I start by agreeing with them. Then, I tell them, "Well... I'm an empiricist. Not a Liberal, not a Conservative. I like proof. So... tell me more."

I let them go until they say something I can prove they are hands-down wrong about. Then I say; "Wanna bet?". We set terms and a price and shake on it. I love how they're so self-assured that Faux News and Rush have been nothing but honest with them.

Well, they can't back down, so I set terms and a price. Invariably, I can produce a load of proof and they can't produce a damn thing.

So far, I've pocketed nearly a couple hundred bucks from these people... and they've learned to stay shut-the-fuck-up about their beliefs around me.

Sadly, not one of them has actually converted to The Church of Veracity just yet.

[progressoid]

12. Yeah, they don't like it when facts and logic get in their way.

They prefer the emotional talking point they heard from some RW douche instead.

I remember heading off an attack with a family member about the financial crisis last year. Somebody must have put the idea into her head that this was all Clinton's fault for "signing that bill that let these banks do this". She was shocked when I agreed with her.

Then I followed up with something like, "You mean the act that repealed Glass Steagall? Seems to me that was written and passed by a Republican congress. In fact Jim Leach (our local yokel) has his name on it along with Phil Gramm (then adviser to McCain). Which is why I can't support McCain for President. He has already said he doesn't know much about the economy and his adviser wrote the bill you say caused all this."

Stunned silence.

Then suddenly it was time to change the subject to the Christmas party instead. :eyes:




But to be fair, there are a few on our side that refuse to see beyond team loyalty as well. But not nearly as much as the GOPers.

[pipi_k]

25. What I find interesting about this is...

that no matter how much money they've lost, or are very likely to lose, that probably won't stop them from believing in the unbelievable or trusting in the untrustworthy.

It's almost like the more they're proven wrong, the more tenacious they become in wanting to hang onto the stupidity.

You'd think that somewhere along the line, a certain brick falling on their heads would finally "connect" and they would get the hell away from the brick wall, you know?

feh. I don't understand it.

But congratulations on your winnings.... :7

[Skittles]

17. I hear what you say about debating, EnviroBat

there was a time when challenging conservatives was insightful and even fun but now it makes me miserable knowing that such willful ignorance exists in the land of the free.

[Marr]

18. I can't deal with Fundies-- they're essentially insane. But Republicans are no problem at all.

There's only one trick you need to remember: always frame your position as the masculine one. If they talk about right-wing policies like surveillance or torture or war, tell them you don't need a surrogate daddy in the government to make you feel safe all the time.

There's always a way to make any position seem like the emasculated one. That's the only line of argument that ever works for me, and it works almost all of the time.

[bvar22]

8. There are a lot of those on DU too.

Its all OK if our guy does it.

[The Doctor.]

11. Yes, but it is nowhere near as endemic.

:fistbump:

[KamaAina]

9. How about "freepturds" instead?

I'd lots rather discuss politics with any number of friends who have intellectual disabilities (the "R-word" and the suffix "-tard" are considered hateful nowadays) than with the knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers at FR!!

[The Doctor.]

20. Yes...

the element of choice should be accounted for.

I just wanted to get their attention. ;)

[tavalon]

10. I'm glad you admitted that we have a few of them here too

[The Wizard]

13. Republicans ceased to be political party

and started becoming a cult under Reagan. I don't associate with cultists, and neither should anyone else with cognitive ability.

[The Doctor.]

15. I wish I could disagree categorically.

But it really does boil down to 'cognition' after all.

[shadowknows69]

14. K+R

[Richd506]

16. K & R

[krispos42]

19. Excellent post.

The analogy about sports fans forking over hard-earned mony to people that make massive amounts of money and see them as stupid cash cows.

[JNelson6563]

21. Seems to me there's a lot of DUers

who don't even begin to get how complex the world of politics is. They want instant results for everything they want and anything less is completely unacceptable. I marvel at it.

Just throwing that out there.

Julie

[Kermitt Gribble]

23. Just the opposite.

The DUers you speak of don't expect instant results, they just want to see steps in the right direction.

[JNelson6563]

41. Please. If you don't see the parallels

between DU and FR then you must not want to.

I remember watching in amazement as the Freeps declared Bush was practically a librul in some respects while we all marvelled at how extremist Team Bush was. They probably come here, read the usual fodder and likewise marvel at us.

DUers have been screaming bloody murder since before Obama even got to the WH. It's been utterly ridiculous but, more importantly, very revealing in regard to the depths of ignorance of the painstaking political process. I wouldn't be just breaking out policy lickety ssplit either. These things need to be developed as a plan and then begins the work of recruiting as much support as possible for it in the political realm, not to mention the broader effort of getting public support. This shit takes time and must be done right.

Let us not forget Clinton got suckered into DODT early on by being in such a hurry, he was easily hoodwinked. At least that's how he tells it since leaving the WH.

Julie

[Kermitt Gribble]

42. The parallels I see are much different.

Most freepers backed Bush no matter what - a number of DUers act exactly the same backing the Obama Admin.

[Kermitt Gribble]

22. K&R!

"What it really is is concern that no matter who is in charge, they are serving We The People rather than themselves."

Excellent post!

[Blue_Tires]

24. thanks for this

i've tried to make use of the 'sports fan' analogy before, but it was never this clear or skillful...

[DesertDiamond]

26. OMG!!! You so nailed it!!!! A total revelation!

[kay1864]

27. I've been making this same analogy for years

from FR: "reading this felt like a punch to the stomach after this week of death and destruction"

This Freeper's stunned by news that was pretty much foregone since January. They think it's like a football game, that if they pull (or pray) hard enough, 'their team' will win.

I worked with a guy who (in 2006) was crushed the day after the election. Why? "Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi." "But," said I, "it was already a done deal." "Yeah, I know, but I thought it might still go the other way." See? In his mind, it was a sports match, not something that a cursory look at news stories could easily predict.

Same as on Election Night--I envision that every four years, when 11 pm rolls around and the West Coast is called for the Democratic candidate, all over America, there are guys going, "What the hell happened? Our guy was 21 votes ahead, now he's 52 behind?? We were winning fer crissakes!"

Stupid is as stupid posts. (on FR)


Thanks The Doctor, for an excellent essay!

[jgraz]

28. Quit insulting sports fans

Even the most rabid fan will admit when his team fucks up. These people are zombies.

[NorthCarolina]

29. K&R n/t

[DWilliamsamh]

30. I have been thinking about the sports mentality in "conservatives" for a while

I put that in quotes because the folks I am talking about aren't even real conservatives. They don't actually understand the Ayn Rand mixed with Jerry Falwell, mentality of the modern conservative movement, and the policies that generates. All they know is for a couple decades the conservatives seemed the most macho (i.e., chest thumping anti-gay, anti-woman) party and also seemed to win more than they lost. These uber-fans like being associated with winners, since they feel like losers in so many other areas of their lives, so they jumped on the conservative band wagon without understanding what Conservative policy really means for THEM and their families. The winning was the only thing that mattered, because that was what provided the vicarious adrenaline rush. And now, just like uber-sports fans, you can't get them to acknowledged that "their team" is full of people who break not only the law, but the rules of "the game" on a regular basis and show no "love" for their fan base at all. Anyone with any intelligence would abandon support of such a team. Well I guess I just figured it out........



P.S. I have only one objection: not all sports fans are uncritical of their teams' screw ups and misdeeds. I am from Philadelphia: we are known for blasting the missteps of our teams so much so that we have gained the reputation for being impossible to please with anything short of a perfect season ending in a championship every year, played by starting line ups made entirely of all-star/pro players. Too be sure we have our share of uber-fans. We call 'em "Stepfords," and I am just as ashamed of them as I can be. ---- hmmmmm....sounds like the general attitude of DU'ers to the Democratic party! LOL

[Dave From Canada]

31. You don't win hearts and minds calling people freeptards. n/t

[DainBramaged]

32. Who cares about winning the hearts and minds of Freeptards?

[lies and propaganda]

33. Ill give this a NON rec

nice sports bashing as usual on DU. If youre a fan of sports you must be completely ignorant and moronic or even a freeper.

[The Doctor.]

40. Uh... huh. Right. Learn the difference between a rhombus and a square...

Then get back to me.

[lies and propaganda]

43. rude as shit and LAME

Because we have one or two different interests, despite the fact that we are both on this board, I must be stupid because you dont like what i do.

Cute kindergarten logic.

[houston mark]

34. Fucktards is more accurate.

With all their whining about the Democrats getting the magic 60 seats they are displaying their "selective memory" of when the criminal Tom Delay wanted to install a "permanent repugnican" majority. Were they going to share then? Fuck 'em all.

[Hepburn]

35. Wow....great OP ~~ K&R...n/t

[Enthusiast]

36. K&R While that is very good

it is above the understanding of most Freeptards.

[Enthusiast]

37. I observed this sports fan-like

behavior in my best friend. We no longer talk, mostly because of the election. It has been pretty bad since the 2000 election when he refused to believe there were any shenanigans.

[WoodyD]

38. This is a must-read

if you want some insight into the incomprehensible mindset of the wingnut base.

http://members.shaw.ca/jeanaltemeyer/drbob/TheAuthoritarians.pdf

It's written by a college professor who's been studying what he calls "right-wing authoritarianism" for decades.

It's riveting, entertaining, mind-boggling and scary as hell. I highly recommend it. Lots of highlights but I think my favorite for jaw-dropping what-the-hellness is when they play simulation games letting people with high RWA scores run the planet. It's astonishing how quickly they manage to destroy it.

[Just Saying]

39. Thanks for the great post!

It does seem that the right are very competitive in an unhealthy way. Winning is NOT everything and particularly when it comes to politics, it should be about doing what's best.

[orleans]

44. Politics is not a 'sport'

i've been saying that for YEARS!

on edit--see my profile and read my comments on it

[texasleo]

45. great

:toast: