"Give me liberty ... " Iranian People Demand Democracy

[autorank]

This is the real deal. The Iranians are risking their lives because they're fed up with fanatics ruining their country. They want a new deal. The meddlers, various corporate and government entities, will try to co-opt this great statement by the people. Let's keep an eye on things and nail the meddlers when they make their move, or as they make their moves.

http://scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0906/S00236.htm">"Give me liberty ... " Iranian People Demand Democracy

Iranian citizens charge police with courage, their bodies, and a few rocks
to secure their rights to self determination and clean elections. Image

Michael Collins

Neoconservatives and other con artists are now claiming to support the Iranian people. Some are the same people who pushed to bomb Iran preemptively just a few years ago. Others, who stood on the sidelines to see who would "win," are now defenders of clean elections. It doesn't matter to the Iranian's demanding respect and self determination. For them, the real victory will be to emerge as a free nation that is outside of the "great game" of the major powers.

The actions of the Iranian people against the stolen election June 12, 2009 serve as an object lesson for oligarchs in nations around the world, including the United States. The people are sufficiently engaged and intelligent to notice blatant political manipulations. They're willing to take to the streets and risk their lives for the absolute right of self determination.

The Iranian people know that their situation is far from hopeless. They learned that being told "there's nothing you can do" is a lie and they are demanding their rights with an adamant presence in the streets of Tehran and other cities throughout Iran.

More: "Scoop" Independent News

[truedelphi]

1. On the one hand, I feel profoundly shamed.

Why weren't people here out in the streets in November 2004?

On the other hand, maybe some of this has to do with the new technology of Twitter.

The only place anyone in America could come to after that stolen election of 2004 was Democratic Underground, and many people who are on here now didn't even find out about this place until Inauguration Day of 2005. (IIRC, Skinner and EarleG (or their friends) held signs with "Visit Democraticunderground.com - Stolen Election!" and people in the crowds saw those signs and joined.)

But what if Twitter had been available then?

Marshall McLuhan would have had a lot to say about this, I reckon!

[AlphaCentauri]

5. Do you think Twitter could start a revolution in the US?

[truedelphi]

7. Twitter offers that possibility. However one of the other big

Problems that we face here is that our department of "Ministry of Propaganda" is still looked to for the "truth about the news." Although people in the USSR were skeptical about their news media, as are people in places like Iran, a segment of people here support the news.

I have one friend who is a top University Administrator who tells me that if things get bad in the USA, the media will point it out. For instance, over the Bush years, as I argued that Bush was a neo con bringing our nation to fascism, she argued that if that was the Case, NBC or CBS or ABC would mention that fact and send up the alarms.

I am sure she believes every talking point in the news about the awfulness of socialized medicine. Her University offers her boutique care in terms of her health needs, and she has no idea what it is like to pay $ 1K a month for really lousy, "pls take a number and wait a month," health insurance such that the average person is offered.

Her attitude about our endless wars is very much based on whatever spin the M$M offers. She held out hope for Bush until like June of 2008 - saying the whole way - "We really need to give our President the chance he deserves." Though she did in the end vote for Obama.

[AlphaCentauri]

21. sadly some of the votes Obama got were from those whos ship was sinking

and to stay in business they need to joint the dissenters.

[struggle4progress]

12. I wouldn't count on any such possibility: a service like twitter will be very easy to shut down

Organizing for social change usually requires actually meeting people and developing some group analysis of the power structure

[AlphaCentauri]

22. It would be interesting to see what the right wing elites that promote twitter

as one of their best resources to propagate propaganda would do if there were a leftist twitter revolution

[struggle4progress]

24. A text-messaged left revolution will find itself with dead cellphones. A twittered

left revolution will find twitter shut down. Control of the mass communication apparatus is in the hands of the rightwing: that's why the Washington Post has mostly rightwing commentators, and that's why the US media didn't cover the 2000 coup as a coup. The Wall Street Journal won't ever have a Communist Perspectives column, and NBC won't ever be broadcasting a show called Corporate Crimes Update

[AlphaCentauri]

30. Corporations control the government as in Iran the Ayatollah's do n/t

[truedelphi]

32. Ihad not thought about that. But you are right.

Twitter remained up and running on the internet becuase that vehicle is American in origin (right?) So if it was Americans out in the street opposing the Big Corproate Interests in this nation, then it is not too far fetched to think that the Powers that Be would shut the internet down.

[autorank]

2. Iranian web sites / blogs

Revolutionary Road
http://shooresh1917.blogspot.com/

The Tehran Bureau
http://tehranbureau.com/

Also, the propaganda matrix for Khamenei & Ahmadinijad
Press TV - govt. site
http://www.presstv.com/classic/default.aspx

[msedano]

3. Such spontaneity signals

consensus? In the USofA, rock throwers usually are either plainclothes pigs or paid agents provocateurs. These folks are not "turn the other cheek" fools but "find a bigger stone" patriots. Look the fotos of those Iranian pigs. Look at the kids in the streets. Can you say "generation gap"?

mvs

recommended.

[truedelphi]

4. When people were out in force against Bush's Iraq war

January through March of 2003, it was mostly older people.

The younger crowd was not out in force - so maybe they were no longer political?

Perhaps that changed last year with the Presidential campaigns and so many young people becoming involved then.

One can only hope that the youth in Iran will inspire the young people here.

[msedano]

8. You have a point there...

Remember when we'd killed only 2000 soldiers and Marines?



What's Obama's headcount now?

[formercia]

6. People who are slaves to debt cannot afford to revolt.

Someone who has nothing, has nothing to lose.

There are more and more every day.

[autorank]

18. Sort of like "hitting bottonm" n/t

[formercia]

28. The Oligarchs have lost control

of the fine balance between financial slavery and nothing to lose.

[AntiFascist]

9. K&R n/t

[autorank]

17. Me

I thank you!

[autorank]

35. .

:)

[Me.]

10. Here's What I Can't Figure Out

ARe they arrogantly stupid or just supremely arrogant? It would've been so easy to wait 24 hours before announcing the results, or to finesse the numbers and not have more votes than voters. A thin veneer of credibility, however fraudulent, would've averted the situation they now face. Instead they took the thuggish route, shoveling such a massive & blatant theft in the faces of the people that they had no option but to revolt. I often asked myself this question regarding * and Cheney and still don't have the answer. Not a comprehensive one aside from smug delusion.

[Kaleko]

19. Yes, the brazenness with which these leaders flaunt their abuse

indicates megalomania. I suppose that's just another word for smug delusion, but it's a psychological condition that spells inevitable failure and crushing defeat.

Both, the US and Iran, operate as fascist theocracies with a thin veneer of democratic pretension. Both were inherently doomed to crumble under the weight of their hubris. We're watching them self-destruct as we speak.

[Hubert Flottz]

11. "Give me liberty"

Nobody ever GAVE anybody much liberty that was the real deal...the receivers of real liberty always fought for any real liberty that they ever gained, they worked for it and some even died for it. This bloodletting in the quest for liberty happens over and over and someone always says as they contemplate the carnage, "Never Again". "Never Again," until the next time?

Sad that hate based fundamentalism coupled with blind greed is the root of yet another evil chapter, half a world away. Our beautiful world is a hateful place. "Sweet Liberty," is it but a dream?

Would it help if Mr. Obama would put on his war-face and threaten the people in power in Iran George W Bush style and talk tough to the leaders in Iran, like those republiCON filth columnists and political sharks in the senate advise him to do? No, I don't think it would help a bit, here in the real world.

In the real world our military has it's hands full already.(American soldiers killing themselves, after coming home from three or four combat tours of duty in Iraq and Afghanistan) Can't we talk tough on human rights? We could, but after Torture-gate America don't have much of a leg to stand on there either. We could demand FAIR elections and recounts in Iran, but then how long has it been since you trusted the vote count here in our own country?

I feel very sorry for the people who are being denied liberty in Iran or anywhere else on the planet. Peace and brotherhood would be much cheaper than war and killing, but "compassionate conservatives" and their greedy equals around the planet will never see that truth.

Edit to say K&R...

[autorank]

26. It's a right that shouldn't be denied

I'm reading about the Republicans saying Obama needs to do more. What frauds they are.

McCain and Lindsay Graham never saw a piece of anti constitutional legislation that they coultn'd resist. They belong in a sideshow or an off-off-Broadway play entitled, "Male Hysterics!!!"

It's not about us, thank Maher, it's about the courage of the Iranian people and their ability
to keep the creeps at bay when/should they win.

Quite a deal though, isn't it.

[Hubert Flottz]

29. Dictators and Rough Riders can dish out the shock & awe

but they can't take it...preachers can't fight in wars, but they sure can stir them up for the people that do have to do the fighting.

I salute the people in Iran for standing up to the bully boys and right wing fundie fanatics in their country.

I wonder why "Independent Democrat" GI Judas LIEberman hasn't chimed in to help condemn the president along with his two blood thirsty war crazy partners in international crimes against peace, Lindsay Graham and John McSame?

We are running very low on deployable conventional military manpower due to the elective war in Iraq and the nearly ten year old war in Afghanistan...Do you suppose that Mr. Graham and Mr. McCain think we should threaten to use nuclear weapons against the government of Iran, if the Iranian madmen in power over there don't do exactly as the GOP malcontents, cheerleaders and naysayers/filth columnists wish?

[autorank]

34. Are these guys nuts or what?

They're just a dime short of Mark Stanford;)

[blindpig]

13. k&r

Well Auto, you know I have reservations about your analysis of this one. I can't believe the spooks have kept their hands off of this, though effectiveness is another story. I question how widespread through the various strata of Iranian society is support for this 'movement'.

No doubt there is much discontent and surely the people deserve better, yet there's a funny smell. I'd love for you to be right, it would be an inspiration, but I dunno.

[autorank]

27. You're right about the smell. It's the vultures, vulcans, or others

living vicariously. They can't resist screwing with any bottom up movement. There's just
too much suffering and too few official media on the scene. People reporting with
cell phones, voice and images, is too much anarchy for oligarchs. They need to manufacture the
"reality" about the lousy state of affairs for fear they'll get blamed. But this is different.

There's really no packaged message coming from the people. We're seeing actions - open defiance in the streets, beatings, demonstrators fighting back. We're also seeing real courage But there's no consistent "spin" in the messages. That tells me these folks are doing this spontaneously and out of general outrage. The one message that corporate media won't carry is -

We're tired of the crooks running this place, stealing elections and screwing with us by failing at everything they do.

It's important to watch how the meta-game is played. Should the people prevail, that's where the opportunities lie - beating back the same meddlers (lining up on cable as we speak).

[ihavenobias]

14. # 10. n/t

[puebloknot]

15. "We, the People" can't seem to imagine that "those people" in Iran ...

... actually have more Hutzpah (though they would *not* use that word) than we have in standing up against fraudulent elections and religious tyranny.

For once, America, sit down, shut up, and take an object lesson from some others who possess grace, intelligence, and courage.

We have not been invited to this party. Let's show some class by staying home.

Good OP, autorank, as usual!

[autorank]

16. Bears repeating

Thank you so much!

"For once, America, sit down, shut up, and take an object lesson from some others who possess grace, intelligence, and courage."

It's not ALWAYS about us.

:hi:

[puebloknot]

20. I keep feeling that this revolt is a mirror for America in which ...

... we can see what we used to be, the spirit that drove the founding of this country.

Some days, it's almost too much to see how fallen are the mighty. The "mightiness" I refer to is our former refusal to accept tyranny, our determination to live free, with dignity and opportunity to create a good, though simple, life. We've devolved to a Quarter Pounder with Bacon and a super-size Coke. (Not all of us, thankfully!)

How presumptious to assume that Iranians couldn't come up with this show of spirit without the care and handling of the CIA!!!! Dare we hope that the engine that enables both sides of a war or revolution is getting old and needs some new spark plugs?

[autorank]

25. I agree

The environment is so strange to many and the likelihood of resistance to the Mullahs so remote, it is a moment of real learning. Thanks for pointing that out.

[truedelphi]

33. Good take on the situation. I think all of us are in awe.

Discouraged about the lack of backbone in our comrades here, but in awe of what has happened there.

[Uncle Joe]

23. I believe this is the real deal; a popular uprising by the Iranian people.

While we have an aging population, the Iranians are disproportionately young; I believe in large part because of their devastating war with Iraq. These young people are chafing under the draconian rule of the mullahs; and their power to absolute rule has become suspect, even prior to this election as the author to this thread attests in what seems like an excellent analysis of the situation to me.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x458245

Thanks for the thread, autorank.:thumbsup:

[autorank]

31. KR